Bill Maher + Jon Stewart on TDS tonight re: Obama's religiousness...

[parabolabear]

TDS's website just opened a forum for viewers to discuss recent episodes. Here's a post I just read and found interesting...

http://forum.thedailyshow.com/tds/board/message?board.id=13123&thread.id=17
How ignorant was Jon and Bill's discussion of Obama's religiosity!!!!!

aeaizenman
Posts: 1
Registered: 09-30-2008
Viewed 33 times

GOD! I love these guys, how the hell could they both be so misinformed and clueless. I wish I could contact one of them and bring it to their attention. It's absurd that they would both go on and on regarding his being "super religious" with out knowing the first thing about it. Read his goddamn book (the audacity of hope), he so clearly explains his belief in it's complete evolution and explicitly denies any kind of real belief in God. Please just go and read the chapter appropriately named RELIGION (you can't make it more obvious) to understand the most basic things about his belief before you go and form ignant opinions.

If anyone knows how to reach Mr. Stewart of Maher, please bring this to their attention I think it's important that they know. Also it's imperative that don't go prove to the millions of viewers that their opinions are formed with out the slightest clue of the facts. You really should read the presidential candidates books (especially if there are only two) there is some serious insight to be had, reading ones writing!

Response:
Re: How ignorant was Jon and Bill's discussion of Obama's religiosity!!!!!
svBackstreets
Posts: 2
Registered: 09-30-2008
Viewed 13 times

The book has been in the house for a while. Your post prompted me to read a little. You are right.

Here's the end of chapter "Faith."
I thought of Sasha asking me once, what happened when we die. "I don't want to die daddy," she had added matter-of-factly - and I had hugged her and said, "You've got a long, long way before you have to worry about that," which had seemed to satisfy her. I wondered whether I should tell her the truth, that I wasn't sure what happens when we die, any more than I was sure where the soul resides or what existed before the big bang. ....

Sounds like he probably may not think Noah got all those creatures on the boat.

I thought those guys read books.


I haven't read Obama's book, but I really like that quote - as an atheist, as a person who values rationality and logic, as someone who values people who question what they are told to be true...

Those of you who've read his book - thoughts?
What percentage of Americans do you think would vote for a nonreligious president?

[firedupdem]

1. self delete

[EffieBlack]

2. I like Bill Maher - most of the time - but I find his anti-religion tirades highly offensive

[parabolabear]

3. Why? Would you find them less religious if

his attitude were different/he had less of a temper/used different, less blunt language? Just curious.

[parabolabear]

12. I meant, 'would you find them less OFFENSIVE' - my bad.

[anneboleyn]

4. I agree with you n/t

[Honeycombe8]

5. I do, too. And I'm not very religious and don't belong to an org. religion.

But to make fun of others' beliefs is so...I don't know the word.

I know that his problem is with the super religious, the wackos, mainly. But he derides everyone who believes in a higher being. To disagree...okay. To deride them? Not okay. After all, his atheism is just a belief, as well.

[Cha]

11. It's arrogant and

tacky.

[BlueStateGirl]

14. Why is making fun of someone's religious beliefs worse than

mocking their politcal beliefs? Or cultural beliefs? Or taste in music? Or fashion?

Why does faith get a pass?

[Honeycombe8]

20. If you have to ask, then I don't think I can explain. A person's faith goes to the

core of his/her being, for some people. It's like making fun of who that person is, period. Like making fun of one's child or parent. It's just different.

A person's faith..from my understanding...is how they cope with life. For some, it gives their lives meaning; without it, their lives would have less meaning. It's deep within. It's sometimes tied to how they were raised, their parents' beliefs, their grandparents' beliefs.

It's not like a political position, for many.

To compare a person's religious beliefs to this season's fashion colors is not to understand faith at all. To discuss it, criticize it, examine it...all this is okay. But there's a tone to his jokes. It sounds as if he actually hates people who believe in a higher being. He goes beyond the pale.

Besides, he's a political satirist and humorist. He just throws in religion as a personal thing of his.

[BlueStateGirl]

24. I guess you are right, I am not a religious person. I don't get

it. Especially since, for some, those beliefs were transfered to them at birth. It wasn't a personal choice.

I can see where you are coming from with Bill Maher. He does come across as contemptuous, and I can imagine if I were a person of faith I might be taken aback.
And I recognize that not all faith or religion is the same. And that not every religious person is a fundamentalist.

But if someone's religious beliefs are what cause them to deny gay and lesbian couples the right marry, if those beliefs are used to keep women veiled and shackled, to justify abusing children, or blow up abortion clinics, then they deserve contempt. And scorn and ridicule.

That's what he he is railing against, I think. The absolute certainty of some of these folks that they are correct. And what that absolute certainty leads them to do.

I really don't know how to explain it, other than that all sorts of abhorrent beliefs can be cloaked in the guise of religion Am I supposed to think these folks are any less hateful because their prejudices stem from their faith? Does faith based hate get a pass? I just think it is a fine line to walk.

[Honeycombe8]

38. Oh, I agree with you there, Bluestategirl. I'm not particularly religious, either.

I think Maher is talking about even more than using the guise of religion to deny others their rights, etc. It sounds like a personal thing of his, to me. He and Andrew Sullivan (gay AND religious) got into it last week over religion. They're friends, but he told Maher to give it a rest, that he'd had enough of wailing against religion.

I think a lot of people are semi-religious. They go to church, like good people are supposed to, and they believe in God, but they aren't wacko about it. Bill rolls all these people up in the same burrito, as if they are the same as the fundies. Maher just has this thing about how idiotic it is to believe in a higher being.

I have a problem with the fundies, the wackos, the hardliners, the ones who want to force everyone else to live by THEIR "God-given" rules. But the others? I'd rather see them left alone with their religious and spiritual beliefs.

[bullwinkle428]

30. Not to drop the "epic fail" bomb on you, but he specifically stated

that he was NOT an atheist last night!! He then went on to add that he felt that atheists are the mirror image, or other side of the same coin, as fundamentalists/literalists - simply because it is beyond any of our capabilities to be sure ONE WAY OR THE OTHER!

[Webster Green]

6. I love those..

I loved George Carlin's too.

I can't stand religion. It makes no sense at all to me. :wtf:

[Erin Elizabeth]

7. I do, too.

And I'm not a super religious person or anything.

[Forkboy]

10. I love it, but cringe whe he talks to, or about, women.

[PassingFair]

33. His anti-religion tirades are the only thing I LIKE about him!

:rofl:

He is anti-WOMAN, as far as I can
tell. He sees women as secondary
beings.

[Warren DeMontague]

8. Is the point of this thread to bash on "those pesky Atheists"? What is the point?

What percentage of Americans would vote for a nonreligious president? Too fucking few, if you ask me- particularly because the most competent person for the job MIGHT NOT BE a regular churchgoer (See Jefferson, Thomas... or Lincoln, Abraham)...

I don't have any problem with Obama's faith, or expressions thereof- I did disagree with him on his point that he "didn't think any kids feel discriminated against by having to say 'Under God' in the Pledge", but otherwise, the man's core message is one of tolerance and inclusiveness to believers and nonbelievers alike.

That said, I think it would be wonderful if certain sectors of the American public would stop acting like they need to elect a Preacher-In-Chief to the White House every 4 years, when what we need is a LEADER.

[parabolabear]

13. I agree completely. I would vote for an atheistic president

probably over anyone else, because by their very being non-religious they would probably represent my views more than anyone else. Abortion, gay rights, etc...

If only.

[Clio the Leo]

16. but ........ but ........ but ..............

....... when have we had a president who was a regular church goer? Certainly not in my memory. Being a Christian is an act, not a title.

And, when did Barack say, ""didn't think any kids feel discriminated against by having to say 'Under God' in the Pledge." In Audacity? I thought it was just the opposite.

"I think it would be wonderful if certain sectors of the American public would stop acting like they need to elect a Preacher-In-Chief to the White House every 4 years," ...... yep, totally agree with you there.

[Warren DeMontague]

23. "Call to Renewal" Address, June 26, 2006.

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/

It is doubtful that children reciting the Pledge of Allegiance feel oppressed or brainwashed as a consequence of muttering the phrase "under God." I didn't.

Allow me to say that most of that speech, I agree with completely. But I know for a fact that some kids feel uncomfortable with that line- because I was one of them, and I knew I was an Atheist, or at least that I didn't believe in anything remotely resembling the "God" of most of my classmates, by the time I was 8 years old.

And we went round and round with this speech and this line, at the time, here.. I have no desire to rehash it. Like I said, overall Obama's message is one of inclusiveness-- and really, all things considered, I couldn't be happier with him as our nominee.

[FrenchieCat]

9. A fuller portion on "faith", which was published in the TIME.

My thoughts turned to my mother and her final days, after cancer had spread through her body and it was clear that there was no coming back. She had admitted to me during the course of her illness that she was not ready to die; the suddenness of it all had taken her by surprise, as if the physical world she loved so much had betrayed her. And although she fought valiantly, endured the pain and chemotherapy with grace and good humor to the very end, more than once I saw fear flash across her eyes. More than fear of pain or fear of the unknown, it was the sheer loneliness of death that frightened her, I think--the notion that on this final journey, on this last adventure, she would have no one to fully share her experiences with.

I carried such thoughts with me as I left the church and made my speech. Later that night, back home in Chicago, I sat at the dinner table, watching Malia and Sasha as they laughed and bickered and resisted their string beans before their mother chased them up the stairs and to their baths. Alone in the kitchen washing the dishes, I imagined my two girls growing up, and I felt the ache that every parent must feel at one time or another, that desire to snatch up each moment of your child's presence and never let go--to preserve every gesture, to lock in for all eternity the sight of their curls or the feel of their fingers clasped around yours. I thought of Sasha asking me once what happened when we die--"I don't want to die, Daddy," she had added matter-of-factly--and I had hugged her and said, "You've got a long, long way before you have to worry about that," which had seemed to satisfy her. I wondered whether I should have told her the truth, that I wasn't sure what happens when we die, any more than I was sure of where the soul resides or what existed before the Big Bang. Walking up the stairs, though, I knew what I hoped for--that my mother was together in some way with those four little girls, capable in some fashion of embracing them, of finding joy in their spirits.
I know that tucking in my daughters that night, I grasped a little bit of heaven.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546579-11,00.html

[Clio the Leo]

17. I cried so much the first time I heard that........

..... I almost wrecked my car! (I have the audiobook)

[Clio the Leo]

15. To answer the question........

....... as a member of the Church of Christ (about as conservative as they get from a theological perspective) a non-religious president is of just as much value to me as one who claims to be Christian and doesn't act like it. Like that old ...... oh ... George what's his name.

Just tell me which one is the Democrat ..... he's got my vote.

And parabolabear, I like your "as a person who values rationality and logic, as someone who values people who question what they are told to be true..." comment because you just described me. I know that wasn't a little jab at Christians now was it? ;)

As for Bill Maher ..... he's a twat.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go ask forgiveness for calling Bill Maher a twat.

[firedupdem]

18. hahaha! now that was funny! n/t

[parabolabear]

21. certainly not!

[NYC_SKP]

27. I'm LOL....

You called Maher a twat!

He really really is....usually on "our" side of things, but he's arrogant and often rude to guests.

[ContinentalOp]

19. I agree with Maher. I hope Obama isn't as religious as he has to pretend to be. -nt-

[FrenchieCat]

22. That's insulting.

I don't think that he pretends....anymore than I do.
Have you seen him praying or something? What is this religiosity issue?
I thought that this was a country in where we encouraged to worship as we see fit.
I don't think you have anymore right to say what you did, as someone would to tell
you what you should believe and anything else that they didn't like, they could
call you on whatever it is that you do as pretense.

[Sodan]

34. I agree with you! And - Religion Is Terror!

[maxsolomon]

25. his point was that BOTH obama & mccain have to PRETEND to be more religious than they are

only fools & sociopaths are filled with certainty - faith or not. maher said last night he's agnostic - he doesn't know.

his movie asks 2 questions:

1. how can you be so certain of the unverifiable?
2. why do you need faith to be good?

no one who claims "faith" in a monotheistic religion has ever answered those questions to my satisfaction.

[Solomon]

26. Thanks, pop. LOL!

I think Maher may be a little too in your face about it, but considering there are not enough people who question religion, it's a welcome relief for me.

By the way, he did say that he was not an atheist. he just doesn't know.

I agree with him about Obama, as well as any other politican, having to say that he "believes".

[WeDidIt]

28. Did you ever think Maher and Stewart were ripping him on purpose?

Think about Maher. He's an avowed atheist which is the most reviled religious stance in the country.

If he's ripping on Obama because Obama is oh so religious, the religious people who despise all things non-theistic will take a second look, especially with the current economic climate.

[Forkboy]

32. That's nonsense, and you clearly didn't watch it.

Maher went off on atheists. He's not an "avowed atheist" as you claim, nor did he attack Obama.

[4_Legs_Good]

29. I can't stand Maher, and hate that he's released that movie now

But I did read both of Obama's books, and I thought they were fantastic.

That quote doesn't say he's not religious, nor that he doesn't believe in God, but there's a difference in "belief" and "knowledge". He doesn't claim to know, unlike many in the religious right.

What Obama is saying in his book, is that he doesn't KNOW and he has dobuts, as do I.

David

[Forkboy]

31. And Maher feels the exact same way.

What Obama is saying in his book, is that he doesn't KNOW and he has doubts, as do I.

Maher agreed with that view 100%. :shrug:

[4_Legs_Good]

36. Cool. on that...

It wasn't his performance per se last night that I dislike, it's his whole demeanor. I find his anti-relgion tirades offensive, even as a semi-agnostic

And I don't think he really wants to please everyone. I think his whole schtick is to delight 50% of the people and offend 50% of them. I'm in the 50% offended column, which is fine!

David

[Forkboy]

37. I think you got him pegged correctly on that.

Most comedians like getting a rise out of their audience, good or bad, and Bill is no different there.

I thought the clip from the movie was pretty clever, and the discussion showed an interesting insight as to why some religions are accepted and some are considered wacky.

[secondwind]

35. I can't understand this post!!!! Is this ENGLISH?? Freeper alert