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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 07:39 AM
Original message
Why the VP Debate Matters
{1} "One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is ‘to be prepared’." – Daniel Quayle.

The debate between Joseph Biden and Sarah Palin promises to be the single most important in our nation’s history. In the past, the Office of the Vice President was considered a relatively bland position to hold. In more recent times, presidential candidates tended to select a VP who was considered competent, and who offered the ticket an advantage in gaining geo-political support on election day.

There have been examples of relatively weak choices of VP candidates on a number of failed tickets in recent history. And Dan Quayle provides an example of an unqualified lightweight actually serving as vice president. Quayle was considered a ball & chain on Bush the Elder by many republicans in 1992, and there was a serious, though quiet, attempt to get Bush to replace him.

Since VP Richard Nixon ran the US intelligence operations in Central and South America during the Eisenhower administration, the OVP has often included an expansion of power. Both Al Gore and Dick Cheney are examples of vice presidents who played significant roles in the past 16 years. It is in this context that we can best examine what is at stake in tomorrow’s debate.

{2} "When I talked to him on the phone yesterday, I called him George rather than Mr. Vice President. But, in public, it’s Mr. Vice President, because that is who he is." – Daniel Quayle.

The focus on the importance of the potential selection of a vice president began with the democratic primaries. Early on, Senator Hillary Clinton was heavily favored to win the nomination, and people from both parties wondered if she would pick Barack Obama as her VP. By the spring of 2008, the contest between Clinton and Obama had changed some perceptions: many democrats hoped for a "unity ticket" that included both candidates, while republicans hoped that Clinton and Obama would destroy one another.

As the democratic nominee, Barack Obama selected Joseph Biden as his running mate. That choice inevitably led to speculation as to whether Obama should have chosen Senator Clinton. While there has been a lot of talk about the dynamics within the democratic party, one thing is clear: the party had several strong, competent candidates for VP.

{3} "I’m going to be a vice president very much like George Bush was. He proved to be a very effective vice president, perhaps the most effective we’ve had in a couple of hundred years." – Daniel Quayle.

When John McCain became the republican nominee, there was a great deal of interest in who he would pick as his running mate. There were significant divides in the republican party, generally between factions that had supported other candidates in their primaries. Like the democrats, they were looking for someone who could unite their base; unlike the democrats, that choice focused on which candidate was least likely to be viewed as weak on a national ticket.

McCain wanted to pick Joe Lieberman, or Tom Ridge, rather than one of the choices the two major republican factions were advocating. Both of these choices were eliminated, because of the recognition that while they were not "weak" in qualifications, either would divide the republican base. As a result, McCain selected Sarah Palin in an obvious attempt to divide the democratic base.

The immediate result was that Palin created interest in the republican ticket. In fact, Palin began to outshine McCain. That was highlighted in her reference to the "Palin-McCain" ticket. But when the public began to become more familiar with Sarah Palin, that glow rapidly faded. The result was that McCain has "suspended" his campaign once, and the public has begun to suspend belief in it, as well.

{4} "I happen to be a Republican president – ah, the vice president." – Daniel Quayle.

The VP debate will be based upon the number three. There are two reasons. First, the public is aware that in US history, one out of three vice presidents goes on to be president.

Second, as always, there are the "three groups": {a} those who always support you; {b} those who always oppose you; and {c} the "undecided," who frequently decide the outcome of elections.

In early September, most polls indicated that the contest was close. Both Obama and McCain had a relatively solid Group A, who appeared unlikely to change positions before election day. But appearances can be deceiving. As republicans became more familiar with Sarah Palin, a number of them became convinced that McCain needed to replace her on the ticket.

It is, however, too late for McCain to exercise that option. Thus, tomorrow night’s VP debate will be aimed at the three largest, often overlapping, segments of undecided voters: independents, some democrats, and women. This debate will show which of the two candidates is more qualified to serve as vice president, and potentially as president. And, just as in the first Obama vs McCain debate, the result will be an important gain for the democratic ticket.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well,
in my opinion, anyway.
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. kick!!!
:hi:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Thank you.
I'm really looking forward to tomorrow's debate!
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maseman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
4. If this really is that important and the world claims Palin wins
then we should see an eight point swing in the polls by next Wednesday correct?

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. There is zero possibility
of "the world claim(ing) Palin wins."
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. So What Does Everyone Have Against Biden All Of A Sudden?
I see and hear complaints daily now, big gaffes etc. Well they don't seem too be so big that they are making headlines. I think the Cons around us are trying to make him into a joke, that goofy guy, you know, the one with his foot always in his mouth. I trust Obama on this and think Biden will be a good, strong veep and have no doubt that if for some reason he should assume the presidency, I wouldn't be worried. He's a decent man.


Now this is a good read, but I want more. Tell me how you think, best guess scenario, how tomorrow will play out, And don't forget that neo-con Randy is prepping her.
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nxylas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Thing is, they're lowering expectations for Biden
If you portray Joe as a gaffe machine who can't open his mouth without sticking his foot in it, then all that stuff about how Palin will impress everyone if she manages to finish the debate without falling over equally applies if Biden doesn't say anything stupid about FDR going on TV after the 1929 crash or whatever.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Gotcha
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Right.
Biden's stronger in a debate format than he is on the stump.
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olegramps Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. For me there is only one reason it is important
She could become president if McCain dies in office. God help us if that should happen.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. It is a
frightening thought. And I think the public is recognizing that. Funny, the republicans always like to try to scare people, and now that's working against them.
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
8. I still have a cassette tape I made of the Bush -Ferraro debate
I haven't listened to it in years. I think the Biden-Palin debate will be "one for the ages". One in which comedians/comediennes will spoof for all time. I feel sorry that Joe has to subject himself to this. :-(
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I'm taping the '08 debates.
Makes a nice addition to the political library!
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Gold Metal Flake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
10. Article 20, Section 3 of the Constitution.

If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President.


The VP must be ready to be President from day one, hour one, if necessary. I believe Palin is keenly aware of this, and is prepared to create the executive office of her vision, with the sort of people she would have at her side. Think about what a palin presidency would look like. I believe Palin is running for President, and McCain is the horse she will ride to the White House.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. I've quoted from
the book "Write It When I'm Gone," where ex-President Gerald Ford predicted that, "Both parties or one of the parties will nominate a male for president and a female for vice president. The ticket will get elected. The president will die in office. The lady becomes president automatically, and once that happens the dam is broken."

Not this time.
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bulldogge Donating Member (152 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. there
has been a discussion going around my office for a couple of days now. A few folks I work with (who are voting for Obama) are getting discouraged with the media digging into the candidates. They feel that it has just gone too far and does not leave them feeling excited about the elections. One co-worker, whom I do respect, made the comment in particular about the digs on Palin "Who cares what her views are about gays...or religion? Everybody has a right to their opinion." I reminded her that everybody does have a right to their opinion but that the concern is that when someone is the VP or potentially the President those opinions have a tendency to become policy and in hind sight mentioned that the next President may very well end up naming 2 Supreme Court Judges and if you have Palin in line to the Pres her views on gay rights and religion will have a direct effect on you and me. I read something today that said 37% of Americans believe she is qualified to be President.....really?!! What poll was that!?

On a side note I hope that every time Biden responds to Palin tonight he says "She just does not seem to get it, she just doesn't understand or better yet its a bit of naivety."

Good Luck Joe, not that you'll need it.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-02-08 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. It is normal
for people to experience a bit of a "let down" at this point in an election. (Think of how bad it must be for republicans!) This year's democratic campaign season has been especially long and at times difficult. So what you describe is natural, and to be expected.

Our role as grass roots comunnity activists is to first help people understand this process, and then to help them identify the ways in which they can move forward. For example, we can start with asking people to identify why they believe it is important to elect Obama-Biden in November? When we do this in a small group setting, people are usually able to identify a number of very important points. Then take the next step: have each person do a brief, three paragraph letter-to-the-editor, with each group member focusing on a single issue. Have people work on these at home. The next day, review each LTTE; if needed, edit and make minor improvements, as a group. Then, mail the individual letters to one or more local/regional newspapers.

Having the series of LTTE appear in the local/regional newspapers is important for a number of reasons. Among them is to have our friends and co-workers recognize that they can make individual contributions to the campaign, to impact the media in their communities, and to feel positive about a coordinated effort.
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-01-08 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. another kick
:)
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