It is possible to be a strong Obama supporter AND be disappointed in Biden's comment last night.

[Fran Kubelik]

My partner and I have dedicated a lot of time and money to this campaign - even though we both were for Hillary in the primaries. I spend about 30 hours a week as a volunteer coordinator in the local Campaign for Change office. I carry my voter registration clipboard around with me at all times.

I'm telling you all this so that you don't jump down my throat and tell me - unnecessarily - that voting for McCain would be worse for me. Of course I know that. Of course we're voting for Obama, and doing everything we can to get him elected.

That being said, as a gay woman with a child, Biden's comment last night hurt.

Asked if he would support gay marriage, Biden said: "No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage."

That hurt, because it can legitimize peoples' bigotry toward my family. "See! Even your candidates think it's wrong!" He could have used other words, he could have corrected Gwen when she said he agreed with Palin. But...he didn't.

Is it a deal breaker for me? Of course it isn't. The ticket still has my support. I still have a lot of hope for an Obama/Biden administration. But right now, today, I'm a little upset.

[ben_meyers]

1. Not on this board, get with the program, He'll fix it later!

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. No, actually, we're going to solve this problem in the next 32 days!

By God!

Let's make asses of ourselves again!

[Fran Kubelik]

27. I am not asking for this problem to be solved in the next 32 days.

I am explaining to my fellow Obama supporters - the non-gay ones - why some of us felt marginalized yesterday. I didn't stop fighting for this campaign after he said that yesterday. I spent all day in the Campaign for Change office.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[progressivebydesign]

3. I think that's a reasonable response. I don't agree with everything they stand for, either.

I guess the point is that there are a lot of people here today, out of nowhere, that are suddenly so surprised and indignant over that, that they say they will not contribute and may not vote for them now.

I do wonder, though, how it would be a surprise what their stance is on that, considering I'm sure it's available if someone looked it by now. A reasonable person is not a one-issue voter. But the proliferation of threads about this here today is the typical shit that gets the Dems in trouble. I cant' stand anything about the Repubs, but you gotta hand it to them, once they have a nominee those people circle the wagons and defend those candidates come hell or high water.

Lots of the threads started here today would have been much more useful as comments on another thread.

[Fran Kubelik]

30. Thanks. I appreciate your response.

I didn't see anyone saying they wouldn't vote for Obama now. I saw someone say they were giving the rest of their donations to defeat Prop 8 in CA. Did someone else threaten to withhold their vote?

[msongs]

4. you have a right to be disappointed if you want. dont let the bullies worry you :-) nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. Why are you upset today, in particular?

I am not criticizing being upset. It upsets me too.

But I don't get why this is a big issue on DU today, vs. yesterday or last week.

That has always been both men's stance, word for word. It was Hillary's stance. I was John Kerry's stance.

It's the "mainstream" Dem position.

It sucks. It is immoral. But you must have known exactly what the position was.

[Liberalboy]

20. When you're gay...

you tend to go on with your life, and find your zone until something comes up to slap you in the face and remind you that you're not quite equal like the straight couple down the street. We know Obama and Biden's positions, and came to terms with it when we realized the way things were playing out, but we get excited and caught up in the frenzy of this ticket and then BOOM, you're reminded last night that you are a second class citizen in the eyes of the two major parties.

I thought DU was a place where I would find support and backing when I felt down, knowing that thise who shared my ideology would understand, and all I found today was hate and people telling "the gays" to just shut up and vote for the greater good.

[Fran Kubelik]

28. Thanks for this. You pegged it.

I wish I could recommend your post.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

38. There is a viciously anti-gay element on DU and, for whatever reason, that element

was concentrated within the most vociferous Obama early-adopters during the primaries.

I don't know what motivates the gay-bashing cohort, or why they think it's acceptable, but it's nothing new. This is a perennial feature of DU at least since McClurkin-mania and perhaps before.

I honestly don't know why anyone would be surprised today... it's been so in-your-face for so long. I guess there just hadn't been any point of controversy for a while, so perhaps people forgot.

[QC]

41. Thank you for saying it. Someone needed to.

Homophobes have always been more, um, outspoken at DU than on other progressive boards, but they have gotten much more comfortable here in the past year or so, culminating in what we have seen tonight.

The problem is not new, but the sheer brazenness is.

[liberalmuse]

7. Yes, I was disappointed, too.

However, I believe that Democrats (even the establishment kind) will come around years faster than Republicans on the issue of gay marriage. I respect Biden and Obama, but I'd respect them so much more if they would come out for gay marriage. WTF is the problem? I just don't understand it.

[PeaceNikki]

8. I agree

And I agree 100% with Russ Feingold on this issue:

"... if two people care enough about each other to get married, that it probably is a positive thing for society.

Gay and lesbian people in our country are fighting a mean-spirited movement to harm them and to discriminate against them, I stand with them against that movement, and I’m proud to stand with them."

[Flying Dream Blues]

9. Yes, it's disappointing.

But I am starting to envision a world where we all (gays and straights alike) get a license from the government to register our civil union, and a marriage certificate from the "church" of our choice, whomever we want to officiate, and there's no "authority vested in them by the State of ____". That way, all unions are created equal in the eyes of the government, and religion is left to the individual. That way, NOBODY gets to define marriage, or for that matter, has to. Only civil unions would be relevant to anything having to do with the government, and everyone would be free to have one. It seems to fit with the separation of church and state to do it this way as well.

Maybe this is what they are envisioning as well. I hope so!

[TheKentuckian]

10. This has been consistently the position

and in general terms a rather bold one for a national ticket.
The responses are irrational considering the political environment and that this is further than anyone has gone before. Your asking for someone in the slavery era to run on ending Jim Crow.

I'd like to know how some folks expect to win running on this. Lets just cede the White House and about every seat in Congress, that'll advance the ball.

[Fran Kubelik]

29. Do you see that I am working every day to elect Obama?

Of course I know what the campaign's position has been. Said so straight-forwardly last night though, so unblinkingly...it was difficult to swallow.

[ikojo]

11. I was disappointed as well but the Democrats of all

parties will not be the leaders in advocating for same sex marriage. I think Americans are less freaked out about it now than in the past, though and that's a good thing.

It should surprise no one that the Dems would parrot the pug position on gay marriage, after all they have barely been an opposition party the past eight years. When a spine was called for they have tended to check theirs at the door.

[deadlyaj]

12. You want them to win this thing right?

Its political suicide in 2008, to be pro gay marriage on a national scale they cant win running on that platform. Let the courts and states tackle it.

Please dont be a one issue voter.

[PeaceNikki]

15. Did you read the whole original message or just the title?

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deadlyaj]

31. nice delete - but america is still mostly against gay marriage. Sorry

[Fran Kubelik]

37. You appear to be a one-issue poster

[EstimatedProphet]

13. Yes, it is.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

[QC]

14. Sorry, but you are being way too subtle. We only do binaries around here now. n/t

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

16. Didn't all of you know that in the beginning? I don't understand...

[babylonsister]

17. Is it possible? Of course. And I don't blame you for being bummed.

I can only hope we can get over these stupid prejudices. You are just as entitled to be married and happy:shrug: as a straight couple.

I have one thought at this time that might give you hope. We could be electing a black man. I never thought I'd see the day, I'm white, and ecstatic. Given the candidate, people who vote for McBush are misguided imo.

Your turn will come, and I hope faster rather than eventually. Once the 'youth' are middle-aged, or sooner, it WILL happen.

And I haven't lost hope in Obama; he's doing what's politically expedient now. I just bet he wished he could do more. Who knows? Maybe he will be able to after he's elected.
:hug:

[TheDonkey]

18. Hillary was for not for gay marriage. Did you post this during the primaries about her responses

to this question?

[Fran Kubelik]

26. I AM AN OBAMA SUPPORTER.

I work EVERY DAY to get this man into the White House.

[TheDonkey]

33. That's wonderful

I'm very happy to hear that. We need people to help win this election for Obama.

But you didn't answer the question. During the primaries did you bring up your sadness that Hillary and Bill Clinton did not support gay marriage? Why bring this up now?

[ObamanationYes1]

34. I think the poster brings it up now only because it is timely

Since the issue came up in the debate last night, perhaps the scab came off of a wound that never heals for him/her. Can we show some love and compassion!

[Fran Kubelik]

36. Thank you.

:hug:

[Fran Kubelik]

35. What does any of this have to do with Hillary Clinton?

You ask me why I bring this up now? Because during one of the most-watched events of this election, Joe Biden appeared to come out definitively against gay marriage. He didn't disagree when it was claimed that he and Sarah Palin shared the same perspective.

I am not calling for his head. I am trying to explain to all of you calling us trolls and PUMAs and whiners why we need a day to kind of reel from it all.

[Unvanguard]

21. I'm upset with it too. It portrays the same-sex marriage camp as extremist.

Instead of being what it is--the only sane and reasonable position.

But the political reality is what it is, and we have to live with it, unfortunately.

[GrizzlyMan]

22. I cringed when he said it

It's one of the few things I disagree with Obama on. That was what was so disheartening about 2004. The Repukes used hate to win by putting the question before a bunch of voters in a lot of fundie red leaning states (Ohio to be precise) and it was devastating for our side.

I'm a man who is married to a woman, but by God, gays and lesbians should be able to do the same thing and I dream of a day when that can happen. In every state.

[stillcool]

23. I think that I don't understand..

it. I have not felt the sting of being discriminated against, so the words don't have the emotional impact. I was under the impression that state laws like ours in Mass, are where the legislature has the ability to well..legislate, and that is where I think the battles will be fought, and the war will be won.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

24. Please quit bringing this crap up. Gay marriage is NOT important. Sit in the back of the bus.

*sarcasm off*



Yes, my lesbian friend.... it is possible to be both a strong Obama/Biden supporter and be hurt by Biden's comments.

I still love him. I don't think he believes it, but it DOES hurt. I'm gay too (a male).


What bothers me more is the people on DU who tell us that our rights aren't important. That is disgusting. I don't think that Biden and Obama truly believe we don't deserve marriage... but they have to say it to get elected. It is much more disturbing to see 1000+ posters on DU (who don't need to be elected by idiots) agree that gays are second class citizens.

[Jennicut]

25. Unfortunately, with what happened to Kerry and the culture wars in 2004 this is the safer position

I don't think they believe it. I wish they could stand up stonger on it but we were killed in some places in 2004 over these social issues and I just want them to win. Remember Clinton in the early 90's? He got killed over the gays in the military issue. He eventually compromised and I doubt he wanted to but he was tanking on that issue. Sigh. Progress is slow sometimes. Rethugs however are the ones to consider gays as evil. They want to literally destroy gay people. There is a stark choice there.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

32. Of course.

[Pithlet]

39. It was disappointing. And I support Obama.

I'm not gay, and I felt disappointment and shame when he said it. So I can only imagine how it felt for people who have a direct, personal stake in it. I don't get why people are reacting so harshly. I just don't. It's not as if anyone's saying they aren't going to vote for Obama now. I don't think I've seen one person actually say that, so if they are, it's a minority. I guess people are scared that expressing your dismay will damage the race, and that now somehow it will flip and McCain will win. But that's ridiculous. There's no reason for anyone to be beating up on you about this. We should be offering you our support at this time. If we had from the very beginning, it wouldn't be this huge flaming brouhaha in DU that it is now.

[Fran Kubelik]

40. Aw Pithlet.

Your post made me cry. Thank you so much. :hug:

[QC]

42. Careful...the playground mob will set upon you and call you a PUMA

if you don't watch it.