Can you try to understand...

[Liberalboy]

For those of you out there who are part of the majority culture out there when it comes to sexual orientation can you take a moment to understand where your fellow Democrats (gay, lesbian, bisexual and trans) are coming from today? We don't hate Obama and Biden, we won't not vote for them, or give them money or volunteer our blood, sweat and tears; we are just frustrated for once again being thrown under the bus by the party.

Now before you flame me, I understand the Democrats are the better of the two major parties out there. I was raised by Democrats, have always voted Democrat, never missed an election, and been active in local and state politics. I grew up in Massachusetts, the bluest of states, and Michael Dukakis' family grew up one village over from my mother in Greece. In this election I have sent money to Obama even though I can't afford it, I've put up a yard sign up here in Canada and have even tried to persuade fellow ex-pats and relatives to vote Democratic.

It's hard though when you're reminded once again that you are not valued by society; some of us have gone through abandonment by our own families, living on the street, addicted to drugs, intense periods of self-loathing and internalized homophobia because of the reaction we have gotten from those around us who think our idea of love is perverse and unnatural.

We wake up on some mornings and wonder if we will be fired from our jobs (yes, that can still happen in half the states) just because of who we are, worry about being refused visitation in hospitals to see our dying partners because we are of the same sex, aching to remember if we packed the power-of-attorney on our vacation "just in case" something happens and hope the state we are in will "recognize" us. We make sure not to hold hands in public or show any sign of affection to our partner (even a hug) in some parts of the United States because that might mean losing your life.

We are reminded that we are ill and diseased because the Red Cross refuses to allow healthy gay men to donate blood because it's easier even though they test all the blood, we're picketed and protested at our funerals by hate-filled preachers who reminds us that even in the after-life we will never find peace, when we go to rent a hotel room in another city the front-desk clerk still has an odd look on his face when he sees two men requesting a King-sized bed.

You look on TV, in the magazines, on the radio and you see stereotypical portrayals of gay men and lesbians, or very limited ones; we are reminded every day we are not part of the dominant culture, but the dominant culture loves our money, our creativity, and our abilities as long as we make sure we don't mention that we like to share our beds with a member of the same-sex.

Finally when we find someone who is speaking to us, and asking for our help we delve into the campaign that states "Change is coming" and to have "hope"; we believe the words that come from Senator Obama's mouth and feel as though we might have a place at the table. I remember that same excitement with Bill Clinton when I was 18 and voted for my first President. We Marched on Washington with vigour and happiness thinking that ENDA would be passed, that Hate-Crimes legislation would finally happen, and that the ban of gays in the military would be lifted.

However, again, and again we get diminished policies passed, and toothless regulations enacted and then for the last 8 years they try to shove us back in the closet and threaten to make a constitutional amendment to bar us from ever having any rights that the nice straight couple down the street enjoys. So please, forgive us, when in the middle of our fighting, volunteering and cheering for Senator Obama and Senator Biden we falter for a moment because we got sucker-punched in the gut. We know they can't stand up for our rights and not be elected by the independents and conservatives, but it still hurts.

Where is our Johnson, where is our MLK, where is the leader that will finally one day stand up and welcome us into the American family with open arms and no pre-conditions; I'm hoping (truly) that it is Barack Obama, but for right now I just want to come to a place like DU and be comforted and not attacked because last night's words in the debate really hurt.

Thanks for listening, and I hope in some way you can understand how at least this Gay DUer feels, because tomorrow I will go back to fighting for Obama/Biden.

[crankychatter]

1. I'll be watching - n/t

we'll see what tomorrow brings

[Solon]

2. This is a beautiful post!

:hug:

I wish our society was more accepting, and I wish DU was as well, but this is no safe haven, I say this a straight man who's been shouting till my throat is sore, this place is infested, I wish the mods would do a spring cleaning.

:hi:

[Liberalboy]

8. thanks

[Happyhippychick]

3. I thought this was a wonderful post. I just want you to know that at least one person

totally gets it.

[Liberalboy]

9. thanks, it means a lot

[Starry Messenger]

4. k&r

beautiful post. I hope people will read it all the way to the end.

[Liberalboy]

13. thanks for reading it

[billyoc]

5. I'm still pissed that the government subsidizes marriage in the first place.

[stuntcat]

48. yeah

is altogether dumb

[TexasObserver]

6. I do understand what you're saying.

But, I don't understand posters who go ape shit every time someone with the campaign says something which offends that is entirely consistent with the official position of Obama-Biden.

This issue for this election is settled. Our goal is to elect Obama-Biden. All this fabricated drama a month before the election has no purpose other than to feed the need some have for attention and anxiety.

The time to change America is after the election. Until then, getting Obama elected is the only thing that matters to me. I'm deaf to anyone who wants to wail and fret over one of Obama's positions. Like the bailout. I opposed it, but Obama backed it. My opposition was to the bailout, not to Obama's support of it. They're two different things.

The problem here is the persistent attitude that some posters will punish Obama by not voting for him simply because his position on an issue does not please them.

[swishyfeet]

11. My thoughts exactly.

Yes we know it can't be good to hear those things, but getting control of the White House is job 1. I believe without a doubt that Obama and Biden both say what they do for political purposes - because support of Gay marriage is at this time (unfortunately) a losing proposition.

Lets win this thing, then with the right people in charge, we can begin moving this country in the right direction.

Hang in there. We WILL get there... eventually.

[Liberalboy]

23. thanks

[treestar]

49. Exactly and "thrown under the bus" is just a false accusation

Anyone who knows any right wingers knows that what Biden DID say will piss them off big time. And many independents are just as dumb.

Face it, it is not a big issue right now to the majority out there. That may be a shame and wrong and all that, but it's just reality. If you're not gay yourself, you're certainly going to put the economy and the war first. That'll even apply to liberals.

[glowing]

7. As the old people die away, it will get better... Younger people mostly

don't care about colors or who you sleep with... Its working. It'll never be 100%, but it will be a majority who just don't care about keeping someone down because of something, frankly, so trivial. It does not matter to me who you sleep with or what color your skin is or who you choose to or not to pray to, what matters is your actions as a person and the character of your being. AND that's how I teach my child... In time, we will look at this as past history.. another anniversary of celebration of promising a more perfect union and liberties established for all of our citizens.

[FrenchieCat]

10. I understand.....

Although folks like to kick my ass a lot.

I do understand the slap in your face feeling....although initially, I didn't quite get it.

I'm sorry that anybody even has to feel the way that you do.
I hope that we shall all overcome this irrational fear and hatred some day......soon.

[Liberalboy]

12. FrenchieCat

you are one of the posters on here I love to read, and admire. Thank you for that!

[FrenchieCat]

17. Thanks!

I'm just exhausted with all of the hatin'.

[Beregond2]

14. That was a really nice post, and clearly from the heart.

I have been less than sympathetic to the angry posts here from my fellow gays. And that has a lot to do with age. I am 54, and to me, it is yesterday when the very idea of our having rights would have been considered laughable. In an instant of historical time, we have made progress that most minorities had to fight for hundreds of years to get. So from my POV, these complaints about candidates still not being a able to declare support for gay marriage seem childish and self-destructive.

I am figuring you are 34. That twenty years makes a huge difference. You were born into a very different world than I was. Gays were already politically active. There were gay characters in plays, movies and TV shows, and they were often portrayed positively. When you were ten, AIDS reared it's ugly head, and gay activism became a matter of life and death. Extraordinary strides were therefore made, very quickly. So it is natural that you should think that is the way change usually happens. But it doesn't.

Suppose the full package of equal rights for gays, including marriage, were achieved tomorrow, and became the law of the land. How much difference do you think that would really make in terms of acceptance? In fact, it would intensify the hatred of those who are so inclined. They would resent us even more, and our lives would become more difficult, not less. Perhaps that is a necessary price to pay. I am inclined to think it is. Just don't think that some words in a speech or a change in the law amounts to a big kiss from society. Ask your black friends how much they were loved after the civil rights laws were passed.

My point is, your frustration and hurt are understandable. But in the larger scheme of things, gays are doing extraordinarily well in this country. Change happens step by step. Personally, I think the only good thing about the push for gay marriage is, it has made civil unions the fall-back position for bigots. They have been manipulated into supporting gay rights. As far as I am concerned, it is the legalities that matter, not the word. I could not possibly care less if society as a whole, or even the majority of my party, welcome me into the fold with open arms. The approval of this society means less than nothing to me. If my sense of self-worth were dependent on others, I'd have killed myself when I was five.

It also occurs to me that your having grown up in a very liberal environment makes a difference. Not that I'm from Alabama or something - I'm from Washington State - but I grew up in a small mill town, and had lots of relatives and friends who were rednecks. I never had any illusions that America as a whole was about to embrace gay people. So for me, where we are now is miraculous. To press too quickly for more seems foolhardy at best, and possibly suicidal.

But...that's an older man's perspective. It behooves younger people to be idealistic and impatient, and to let the petty bigotries and stupidities of society get to them. So...I understand your hurt, and I applaud your efforts. Just remember, please, who your friends are, and don't attack them for not doing more than is possible.

[Liberalboy]

18. Very well said Beregond2

You're right, I am 34 and I've seen the gay community from my own lense; I was taught about AIDS and safe sex in school, I remember when it was a big deal when Ellen came out on TV, and there were colleges and some high schools with openly gay support groups and clubs. I have seen how much has happened so fast and I envy the children of today who come out at 12 and live authentically as they should.

I know it's a struggle and that it takes time and patience; that's why I join the fight and keep trying, but sometimes I falter a bit, but deep down I know we each do what we can, and that it will happen. It's never been about acceptance by others that I was seeking, but just a sense of dignity and respect. I honour your perspective and thank you for the your kind words :-)

[Beregond2]

37. And thank you for respecting me.

Some gays on this board infuriate me so much, that I say things I later regret. If we could all just take a deep breath and speak honestly about where we are coming from emotionally, instead of just lashing out, we would be much better off. And I am as guilty as anyone.

[Captiosus]

15. I understand completely and sympathize.

But please try to understand that there's a huge difference between being upset (and rightfully so) and making knee-jerk reactions and threads on these boards like "I'm never giving money to Obama again". The latter is outrageous sensationalism that serves no purpose but to create drama and divide people.

I'm not happy with Biden's words either. I'm less happy that people would come here and use that soundbite as a reason to start inflammatory threads that only serve to divide us. I'm as hurt as you are. I've spent considerable time as a staunch proponent of equal rights regardless of sexual orientation. However, I wouldn't come here and say that, because of one media blip, I'd stop supporting the better of the two candidates.

[defendandprotect]

16. I'm not gay-- but I also find the Obama/Biden positions Medieval ---

close-minded --

and look at "Crusaders" in WH ... more Medieval throwbacks, torturing us all --

Again, how much of this is based on "religion" ...?

[OwnedByFerrets]

19. Very nice post!!

[catnhatnh]

20. Only tangent ally related to your post...

...but I gave up donating blood in '88 after giving more than 40 pints. I was an EMT and had handled multiple late stage AIDs victims. The Red Cross questioneer began to include questions about direct contact with HIV/AIDs victims in the prior 6 months and of course I had to answer "yes". Each "yes" required a 20 minute minimum delay until the head nurse could ask me "Did you take "extraordinary precautions" (wear a mask and latex gloves-correct answer was "HELL YES- what I saw scared the living shit out of me....), but what was going on was just pro-forma bullshit- I had to say yes and they had to call the head nurse who had to ask me yada, yada, yada....

So on that donation, I snapped-When asked about "extraordinary precautions" I replied-"Yeah-I didn't kiss him on the mouth." That required an EXTRA 15 minutes of explaining that
A.I was a health care professional
B.I was well aware or possible transmission protocols
C.I knew they (the Red Cross) didn't like it, but I chose to handle the poor, sick bastards anyhow, because they were poor, sick, suffering bastards and someone had to.

So she let me know that I was within my "rights", both to donate blood and to continue handling my patients-but that the protocol for me to give blood would never ease and that I could only expect longer delays as they "tightened their standards"...My LAST visit.

The thing being, even as a straight, I get some of your post-they gave me a small ration of the shit you get and it sucked. The sad part is not just that they discriminate against you-it is that most of them STILL don't get that all people have the same rights or that none of our's are assured. Oh, and PS: They think blacks and jews and women (etc, etc, etc)
all exaggerate how bad it sucks....

[TheDonkey]

21. While you sulk in dissappointment you miss the incredibility around you

I think this is my biggest issue with those GLBT persons who attack Obama or Biden for their stance on gay marriage (or use that issue as cover to attack them or act apathetic about this election). Being in the GLBT community I have experienced this A LOT from mostly former Hillary supporters.

What I try to explain is that why it is easy to sulk in the disappointment of gay marriage you miss the brink of incredible progress for gay rights on the horizon. Obama and Biden will bring a breathe of fresh air and a world of difference from the homophobic and hate-filled party that is currently in power. Their openess about gay rights, domestic equality, anti-DADT agenda, employment protection, and adoption fairness on the national scene is light years from where much of the country is TODAY.

So realize that while Obama may not be the savior of gay people across the lands he brings positive change of EPIC proportions in his back pocket.

The idea that LBJ or MLK ended discrimination is also incredibly naive. Those individuals and a lot of freedom fighters before that continued the incremental fight for equal rights that continues TODAY for African Americans. I don't mean to shock you but African Americans STILL face inequality.

[Liberalboy]

22. Oh, I know they do...

as well as Chicano/as, women, and others; I'm not naive, but I am just hoping people will remember the "real live people" of this process. When it comes down to it, we are all human and we should all flinch if one of us is getting hurt in some way.

[Zuiderelle]

26. Stop shitting on every gay person you see today. It's tiresome.

[Starry Messenger]

24. kick

[CreekDog]

25. I hear you and welcome to the club

a lot of us belong to groups that the Democrats have helped, but not eliminated inequality for.

sometimes people forget that their group is not the only group going through this.

[Zuiderelle]

27. Really excellent post. You speak for me.

:thumbsup:

[LeftCoast]

28. Very well said!

:applause:

[Liberalboy]

29. thx

[Blondiegrrl]

30. I understand. It angers and frustrates me too.

K&R for a beautiful post.

[Liberalboy]

31. Thank you!

[chill_wind]

32. Yes.

K & R.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. Great post

I will also continue to support the ticket. I do hope people understand how difficult that can be while such rhetoric is used by 'our' ticket. I don't like being the only thing Palin and Biden agree to be against. It does not make advocating for the ticket any easier. But advocate I will.

[Forkboy]

34. Best post on the subject yet.

Very well said.

:kick: for understanding.

[PATRICK]

35. Contrast the motivation

of the surprisingly many closet gays(never mind the actual Log Cabin GOP) in the GOP. In singling out one issue the truth is always in the wider value viewpoint, and where truth or true character reamins the core.

[elshiva]

36. Thank you.

I wish Clinton had been less of a coward about GLBT rights, too.

:hug:

[Festivito]

38. Please don't look only to politics for your salvation.

BTW, nicely written.

And, don't look to politics for your self-worth. It is cruel, the time it takes politics to accept mixed marriages, women to vote, gays to marry, ... But, the underlying reality is that society is not ready for each of those until it is.

This "unless they accept me I won't feel good" attitude is worthless. If you do not feel good about yourself, you need to ask yourself why -- not why do not other people accept me.

If I may suggest, you will not find the best way to fight for this issue in politics at this moment in history. Politics is too corrupted by money to do what is right.

Please understand, that what we fight for here in promoting Obama is a step in the right direction rather than the wrong direction. There are other ways to bring society around.

I wish you well on finding them.

[Liberalboy]

39. I don't,

but when politics affects your day-to-day life it seems like a place to start. I also talk to people, live openly and volunteer with younger gay kids to show them that it's OK to be who they are. I know it's going to be a long process and Obama is the right step in the right direction

[Festivito]

43. Good. The place you have to go, but

not necessarily the place to start. Even if it seems the place to start.

Quoting Ayn Rand LiberalBoy?
Individual rights ARE subject to a public vote... Take the Constitution and Bill of Rights as examples against Ayn's statement.

A majority of 3/4th has the right to take away rights. They'll have to live without themselves, but they have the right.

How can you stomach that dribble...

[Liberalboy]

44. Personally, I've never

read Ayn Rand, but that quote struck me and I liked it.

I don't believe that the misinformed and sheeple public should get to vote on my rights, or anyone's rights. It's amazing here in Canada that they look at Americans and shake their heads in disbelief; they don't have to ever vote on amendments, or questions, ballot proposals or tax increases - they vote for one person (their representative) and let them do all the work

[Honeycombe8]

40. So what's your beef with Obama/Biden? What exactly have they done that has harmed

you? If you're speaking of their personal beliefs, they are entitled to their personal beliefs (they believe in full gay rights and civil unions, etc.). They merely personally believe the word "marriage" shouldn't be legally mandated.

But it doesn't matter what their personal beliefs are. The Prez is not in charge of who gets married in the U.S. Why obsess with someone else's personal beliefs, as long as they are against constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage (and they are)?

[Liberalboy]

41. I thought

I explained it pretty well, but I'll try again. I have no "beef" with them, I like them, I will vote for them, I will support them, but what happened the other night hurt me, and many GLBT Americans on a very personal level; it's a constant reminder that we are not equal. For all I know they may personally believe in gay marriage, but can't say that because it's political suicide; that still doesn't make me stop yearning for a politician who would say that openly (like Kucinich or Gravel) For me calling it a marriage for straights and a civil union for gays is the same argument as separate, but equal - which I don't believe in, but I'll swallow because we have to win this election

[Honeycombe8]

42. I see. Guess I read thru your post too fast. Think of it this way, maybe:

Once Obama/Biden get into office, things SHOULD get better for your cause. They have personal beliefs, to be sure, but they will do what they can to further the cause of gay rights.

As a woman, I'm frequently confronted with the male attitude towards women (esp. when I was younger). Attitudes even based on religion. Not dissimilar from attitudes toward gays. I suppose I just learned over the years that older folks and religious people were just going to think that way, and there was nothing I could do about that. What mattered more was that....old folks would die soon! and most people weren't THAT religious.

And of course....who REALLLY knows what Obama/Biden thinks about the issue. They may truly be personally against using the word "marriage", or not. Because if they want to win this election, they really have to SAY that, whether or not it's true.

[TwoBears]

45. K&R

Thank you for your post. I guess I've never really thought about this issue in a "walk a mile in my shoes" kind of way. I can understand that it would be difficult to hear the words you heard during that debate. I am glad, however, that you will keep fighting the good fight. I was humbled by your post. Sometimes I fail to see how much I take for granted.

[Liberalboy]

46. Thanks for that :-)

[Beausoir]

47. I support you. Thank you for a terrific post.