The long primary war of Obama v Hillary was in some ways a great thing

[jpgray]

He's been tempered, tried, and exhaustively tested. He's seen it all. Hillary was no common legislator candidate. She was backed by tons of money, exhaustive presidential campaign experience, and some of the best political minds the Democratic Party has to offer. Moreover, she brought to bear the full weight of her own candidacy's historic implications. Implications, by the way, which make Palin's VP candidacy seem like a hollow insulting echo. She gave Obama a fight, on a level that few primary contenders have ever been equipped to match.

It's true Obama didn't see it "all" in the primary--Hillary was never going to be as nasty as McCain will be. In a way, though, that doesn't matter. All the arguments against an Obama candidacy that sane people will react to strongly (starting with "experience") have already been tried. They failed. In the few cases where attacks did leave a mark, they were widely covered by the press. This means that not only has Obama heard and faced the worst, but that the media have heard and -reported- the worst. It's old news. Given the decidedly American attention span of our news media, such "old hat" narratives from months ago will be deprived of their only means to break through the static--novelty. Amongst the high punditry, attack narratives which failed to show any impact the first time around make scarcely a ripple the second.

Given Hillary's historic and admirable support for the ticket since (note her filling in for Biden this weekend!), I'm starting to see the bitter primary battle as becoming a net positive for Obama. Old grudges still exist on our side between the two camps of supporters, but given the remarkable unity on display between the two candidates and given the stakes of this election, it may have all been for the best.

Full disclosure here: I supported Hillary over Barack in the primaries once Edwards was down and out. I thought her policy on gay marriage was marginally better, and that her health care plan was substantially better. On the Iraq War and generally as a politician and orator, Barack was better.

[AZSlacker]

1. I agree. Although her campaign made me angry many times during

the primaries... in hindsight he came out a better candidate because of it. In retrospect, my feelings toward Hillary have softened, and should she run again, all things remaining equal, I'll support her.

[YOY]

2. Great topic and points and perhaps it is so but lets recall it in a month

Lest we reopen old wounds.

[jpgray]

14. I hope it might heal old wounds, but that's probably not on the horizon

I just think it's nice to consider the positive aspect of such a major full-bore challenge to Obama early. So far the thread has mostly sunk without notice, so I may be on to something.

:dunce:

[rug]

3. Other than Bobby Rush, Clinton has been his only formidable competitor.

If the stuff that came out in April came out in October, he would not be facing the landslide he's about to receive.

[fujiyama]

4. I was angry and disgusted at the time

over how she ran her campaign, but the day she conceded, I felt she would be an effective surrogate and a good potential VP. In fact, I was disappointed at first to learn she wasn't the pick, but I understood the reasons Obama went the route he did.

And I agree that it was good to get most of the stuff out in the open then (does anyone REALLY care about Wright that much now?). It was no easy task going against one of the greatest political establishments in the US today. The Clinton machine was and is a formidable force. Hell, look at just the debates alone. He was much improved by the time he had finished sparring with Hillary (something like 18 times?).

And finally, campaigning in all 50 states has proved to be useful as well. Barack has opened up field offices all over the country and has had a ground game going MUCH longer than McCain has, with much more depth as well.

[jpgray]

7. Good points about the debates and the ground game

How often does a state like NC get a first-hand, influential look at a Democratic primary candidate for president? We may be seeing the effects of that in November. :)

[endthewar]

5. Down with the DLC corporate Democrats

Let's bury their political careers. :evilgrin:

[MrSlayer]

6. I think the last part of the primaries were nothing less than a full vetting of Obama.

Hillary hit him with all the worst shit that was out there on him and he withstood it. She basically took several tools out of the box of the RW by bringing up all the shit that they would and having Obama come through it.

[anonymous171]

8. I agree. The long campaign helped him, especially in PA.

[jpgray]

12. Yep! On state infrastructure, debate acumen and general vetting, it's had some positive impacts

:)

[Cha]

46. It was tough school but

he passed with flying colors and graduated with honors into the GE. We knew what was to come would be bad and more importantly so did Team Obama.

[sunnybrook]

9. That is true and it would have worked both ways

If she had been nominated. I am glad he has had the experience of defeating a political dynasty. The Clintons' have made him a far more seasoned candidate.

[PeaceNikki]

10. I agree 100%

I've always thought that the extended primary made him a far stronger candidate. And, let's be honest, Hillary was a much stronger opponent than Walnuts will ever be.

[jpgray]

11. That much is definitely true

:D

[Clio the Leo]

13. Palin is a "hollow insulting echo" of Hillary .... Love it! NT

[jpgray]

15. I've rarely seen such a nakedly cynical yet completely tone-deaf political play

Yet McCain seems a near master at this sort of thing these days. :P

[Beacool]

16. Yeah, it was a great thing............

I guess to some, Hillary's function was to toughen up the nominee? To those who supported her she was the better prepared candidate and the one who inspired us, she still does.

[jpgray]

21. Did you read my little disclaimer at the end?

:)

[Beacool]

24. Yes, I did.

I just resent people acting like her function in this campaign was to toughen the newbie.

[bklyncowgirl]

17. Thanks to Hillary what little dirt there is on Obama is too old to stick

Bombthrower buddy Ayeres, been there heard that, nothing there.

Reverent Wright, oh no not that nutjob again.

Reszco, exhaustively covered and there's no there there.

Drug use as a young man, told it all in his book plus his high school pals say he was not much of a partyer.

Sex--haven't heard a thing and I'm sure it's not for the Clinton campaign's lack of trying.

[FloridaGrl]

29. True

and while I didn't enjoy it then. I think we are benefiting from the "kitchen sink" strategy now because all of this is old news. Poor McCain has nothing left.

[bklyncowgirl]

18. Thanks to Hillary what little dirt there is on Obama is too old to stick

Bombthrower buddy Ayeres, been there heard that, nothing there.

Reverent Wright, oh no not that nutjob again.

Reszco, exhaustively covered and there's no there there.

Drug use as a young man, told it all in his book plus his high school pals say he was not much of a partyer.

Sex--haven't heard a thing and I'm sure it's not for the Clinton campaign's lack of trying.

[27inCali]

19. She owed it to the party

to make sure we didn't send him out there against the Repugs with a bunch of skeletons in his closet that hadn't been discovered yet. We would be so fucking screwed.

[jpgray]

22. She owed it to herself as well--imagine if we had a nominee with horrible untalked-about secrets

[LynneSin]

20. If Obama had any skeletons in his closets Hillary would have used them in the primary

Hillary cleaned out that closet leaving nothing left for McCain.

And the other thing is keeping this campaign going strong kept Obama almost all the way up to the primaries. They said it would hurt the democrats when Ed Rendell put up a long & uphill primary fight against 'shoo-in' Bob Casey jr. Something like $40mil was spent on that primary election back in 2002 but Rendell pulled out a victory and the momentum kept him going thru election day.

[Beacool]

23. No, she didn't.

The campaign new about Wright and they didn't bring it up.

[AtomicKitten]

31. "Senator Clinton Exercises Tanya Harding Option"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBbk2sN8cg

[Beacool]

33. Her campaign didn't make it public in the first place

and they could have done so way before March.

[AtomicKitten]

34. So, waiting til after March to "kneecap" Obama on Rev. Wright was much, much better?!

your rationalization goes poof ------------> :eyes:

[Beacool]

38. She was his opponent.

He's lucky her campaign didn't release that info. in January. As a fellow Democrat there are certain lines that one doesn't cross.

[AtomicKitten]

40. "As a fellow Democrat there are certain lines that one doesn't cross."

I agree. She ran against him like a wingnut. She crossed the line repeatedly trying to back up over Obama. And that's precisely why many Democrats will give money to anyone that opposes her in a primary.

[Beacool]

41. No she didn't cross the line.

The media trashed her mercilessly for months and the LW of the party leadership kneecapped her at every chance, despite that she came a hair away from the nomination. Hillary would win reelection in a heartbeat if she chooses to stay in the senate, despite the haters. Me, I'm hoping she runs again for president.

[NashVegas]

42. Don't Bother. They Need Their Myths

The sad truth is that there were people who *needed* to believe and spread the absolute worst trash imaginable of Clinton in order to promote Obama. It was all part of that, "I'm a woman, but I'm voting for Obama" stuff.

[Beacool]

43. Yep, this election has taught me a bitter lesson.

I will never again trust the Democratic party. I will from now on vote on the candidate, not the party. To think of all the years I spent time and money supporting every candidate the party put out there, just because they were Democrats. Well, never again, certain faction of the party leadership made a concerted effort to destroy the one candidate who inspired millions of people and I will never forget it. I will do my duty in Nov., but that's all.

[laugle]

44. Your sentiments are shared by many................

[AtomicKitten]

47. She did; in fact McCain is trying out her Kitchen Sink strategy.

When Hillary ran out of states, they said they had the right strategy, the Kitchen Sink strategy that they felt was working, but they ran out of time.

Now their "good, dear friend" McSame is picking up where they left off.

You will see when the occasion arises down the road that many Democrats will not be forgiving and forgetting the way she ran her campaign.

On edit: Regarding your "bitter lesson," Howard Dean has done an excellent job as DNC chair. Some Clinton folks wrote the damn rules and then tried to bend them. That is the unvarnished indisputable truth, a truth, again, you refuse to see even though it is right in front of your face. Howard Dean deserves kudos for persevering in the face of the lies told about him and the DNC.

[Beacool]

48. Dean can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

Ditto Pelosi, Kerry, et al. and I'm only leaving out Kennedy because he's so ill.

[Awsi Dooger]

25. In every way it was a great thing

That's why it was incredibly frustrating to see it depicted otherwise by lousy handicappers, including Rachel Maddow who whined every day that, "McCain is the beneficiary, we are the underdog, blah, blah, blah..."

[Psst_Im_Not_Here]

26. I love it when...

the exact thing you were just discussing with friends and family shows up on here! I was ust saying this exact thing to hubby yesterday!

[kennetha]

27. Not to mention Democratic Registration

is WAY up, not just because of Obama's efforts, but because there was so much excitement about our primary!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. i agree. i think the fact that i have a lot of faith that obama can win this

is because clinton lost to him.

it means he is dedicated, focussed, intellgient and can get his message across. in a way that even HRC couldnt

[Buck Rabbit]

30. I wanted a hard nosed campaign with a truly vetted winner to emerge.

I didn't care who won though I thought Edwards was completely unelectable. I had serious concerns about the electability of both Hillary and Obama. So when Gore didn't run, I wanted a winner where the kitchen sink and everything else had been thrown at them.

So I was fairly pleased that Hillary's campaign played hardball.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

32. While I respect your premise, I disagree to some extent.

You may, indeed, be right. However, I think to some extent it could easily be argued that Clinton's extended candidacy handed McCain a fully-vetted playbook by which he's attacked Obama. I think it's a double edged sword - on one hand, it prepared Obama while simultaneously leaving him vulnerable to attacks known to work. Instead of having to find out what works and what doesn't the hard way, McCain was able to employ tactics with full knowledge of what would happen. I'm certainly open to your point of view, and I respect most of what you say generally, but I don't think this issue is quite as cut and dried as you might believe.

[genna]

35. I have no problem saying that Obama has a far thicker skin now once Hillary skinned him alive

but I don't think I will EVER BE GRATEFUL FOR HER SHENANIGANS.

You want to congratulate a Democrat for sticking a 12 inch knife in another Democrat's back and pulling the knife out 6 to 9 inches. I'd say she was still back stabbing the Democratic nominee.

So you are saying the opportunity cost for fighting out the rest of the primaries after the 11 state sweep was in Obama's favor because he didn't have 3 months to gather together a policy and ground team that could sweep through these hater districts who are saying he is a Muslim, he is not American, and he is black?


I respect the desire to put a nice face on some Democratic nastiness from Clinton. Hey, love, peace, and hair grease for all those who need that kind of sentiment.

But for me, I have watched Democrats whom I love go for broke based on hate that languishes in the heart of America. McCain is going to try to take this hate to a new level. Spewing that hate whether Democrat or Republican is not good for a diverse republic regardless of the way Obama was able to overcome the unthinkable. It's like Pat Buchanan saying us, Blacks, should be thankful for slavery because it gave us religion and economic opportunity. There is a lot of crap between Africa and today that causes my eyes to roll up into the back of my head trying to figure out how a person can skip the between time. There was also a lot of crap between 80 to 90% of blacks supporting Clinton until her diverse base of support being hard working white people.

I will let the primaries go, but I will not let anyone piss down my neck and tell me its raining.

[democrattotheend]

36. For one thing, it probably laid the groundwork for Indiana and North Carolina to be competitive

By forcing Obama to build a campaign organization in 2 states that Democrats would have otherwise ignored. During the primaries they did a lot of voter registration and organizing that laid the groundwork to contest those two states in the general.

[Tribetime]

37. Hillary was a much tougher opponent

[BlueIdaho]

39. Been there - heard that - thanks to Hillary

Unfortunately for McCain, most Americans have already decided how they feel about these "character issues" thanks to the protracted democratic primary season and the massive media coverage it received. All these histrionics may fire up the red meat base but will turn off moderates and fiscal conservatives. Voters have seen Barack with their own eyes and he just doesn't look like a wild eyed mad man with a bomb in his hand. Now, John McCain on the other hand...

[goletian]

45. yup, now you can laugh at the right, saying, "it didnt work before, it wont work now!"