Preacher threatens God, prays He'd better make McCain win if He knows what good for Him.

[Speck Tater]

This is just freaking beyond the pale. This guy is literally threatening God that if he doesn't make McCain win he will lose his reputation as the biggest, baddest, strongest God on the block.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081011/ap_on_el_pr/mccain

Unhelpful for establishing the tone McCain sought in Davenport was the Rev. Arnold Conrad, past pastor of the Grace Evangelical Free Church. His prayer before McCain arrived at the convention center blocks from the Mississippi River appeared to dismiss faiths other than Christianity and cast the election as a referendum on God himself.

"I would also pray, Lord, that your reputation is involved in all that happens between now and November, because there are millions of people around this world praying to their god — whether it's Hindu, Buddha, Allah — that his opponent wins, for a variety of reasons," Conrad said.

"And Lord, I pray that you would guard your own reputation, because they're going to think that their god is bigger than you, if that happens. So I pray that you will step forward and honor your own name with all that happens between now and Election Day," he said.

[RagAss]

1. Where is Jim Jones when we need him?

[sunnybrook]

31. the comparative

"voice of reason?"

[Zomby Woof]

2. "Please God..."

"You need to prove you have a bigger dick than those other gods!"

[crazy_vanilla]

3. this guy is so full of himself

Who is he to threaten God or make God perform the way stupid preacher wants him to? God is not a circus animal. Or confined to one religion, IMHO.

[Sebastian Doyle]

4. Jesus has a message for Reverend Conrad

[fishwax]

5. that's hilarious

:rofl:

[WindRiverMan]

6. Isn't the Muslim god Allah the same God as the Christian God?

Both are the God of David, just different lineages from there.

[Bucky]

10. Shhh, quiet you.

The way you talk... it's like you don't even want people to be paranoid.

[vaberella]

13. Aye? I usually see Allah similar to Hebrew God (Yahweh).

That being is both vengeful and benign. Christian God has divided power with the Devil (since) that being has it's own history and creations and minions---ask a Christian and they'll normally deny it. But in the Bible, the Devil has quite a bit of power.

[pnwmom]

22. Christianity rose from Judaism and they both pray to the same God.

And the Muslim religion grew from the same roots and its followers also pray to the same God.

[vaberella]

30. I'm Catholic, I know the way it went.

However, Islam nor Judaism have Satan...and hence my point. Allah is all and everywhere. Much like Yahweh is all and every where. Christianity only has Satan which in essence has abilities that counter the power of God. <---Of course it's an incorrect translation but that is the way the Nicean Council projected it and has strong presence in all Christian faiths since there is two places Heaven and Hell with Catholics being the only one maintaining a nonsensical purgatory.

[pnwmom]

39. Satan appears in the Christian Old Testament and the Jewish Bible

in the books of Job and Zechariah.

[vaberella]

43. Where to begin....

I know the Old Testament very well, it was my favorite book in Catholic school. The New Testament is only good when looking at the Gnostic works along side it.

As a side note in the Pentateuch Genesis does have the idea of "the temptor" or "obstacle" in it, in the Catholic Bible it's wrongfully named satan.

In any event...in the Old Testament the translation from Hebrew was incorrect. It's a misnomer of what was defined in the Pentateuch. This is a known fact. Satan in any way shape or form, as the Christians have made it out to be, is not found in the Torah (we had to learn ALL the religions in Catholic school as well). Not only that the Koran and Torah are personal interests of mine. Good and evil is part of the human make-up (basically to exemplify the God given right of "choice") but there is not a "Being" called and identified with a personality as Satan within the Torah.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/satan.html

The above is a pretty good definition of what Satan is in Judaism, and Islam has the same status for "satan".

But Satan is not named satan, and it's nothing compared to what Catholics and it's current manifestations entitled under the umbrella of Christianity have created for it.

This is why I clearly stated that Allah and Yahweh are far more similar than the Catholic/Christian God, because the Christian God has created this ever present opponent which has almost similar powers and even at times likeness to God itself.

[Leopolds Ghost]

51. I thot Catholics were pretty strict (anti-Manichean) evil is just the absence of good.

Yes, Catholics push syncretistic beliefs in a variety of angels, spirits, saints, etc. but these are henotheistic (?) not monolatrous in nature... monolatry is pretty strictly prohibited, even more so in Protestantism... the Pope even came out and said Hell is merely the absence of an afterlife / God.

(he ALSO came out and denounced teleology, BTW)

Teleology is the notion that belief in God is dependent on rejecting evolution and a literal reading of Genesis.

Literally it means a belief that God's works are manifested as discrete, physical acts, like a thunder god.

Monolotry is the notion that other powers may exist besides God but that they are not to be respected.

[vaberella]

57. I understand what you're saying.

There are things to take into consideration however. I will say in my Catholic schools and sunday Schools and all together that would be about 6 of them, including schools and Churches, also keep in mind I live in NYC. I've come to realize that the Catholic teaching in other parts of America are far more zealot like in nature. Not that mine wasn't, but my school taught evolution and taught sex ed starting in 6th grade. So there's a difference I think.

In regards to teleology (first time I've heard the terminology) the meaning is well known---is not taught based on what I said above.

However, monolotry (another terminology new to me) is still taught. Religion class was taught more like a Bible reading class per say. The Pope can say what he likes, however the Churches and Schools don't necessarily follow what the Pope, and which pope is this? I went to school under Pope John Paul II. So the teachings were still there. The dynamic in most of the Churches, that I am aware of, are still the same. Satan is an entity separate from God and almost of equal standing to God. This study has not been denounced in the schools, even if the Pope may have said otherwise. There is Heaven and that is where God is and there is Hell and that is where Satan is and there is purgatory which is between both but is basically a waiting period into Heaven. This idea is still taught and the Bible clearly shows it as such.

This is the fundamental difference between the Bible and such works as the Torah and Koran. The Bible specificaly creates two entities. So it doesn't matter what "man" denounces it, the Bible as it is labeled and been taught for centuries by the Catholic Church is the "word of God" spoken through man. So I consider this thing called "monolotry" crap in relation to the Catholic Church. Seriously.

The teachings that have been around aren't going anywhere. Even when it was clearly noted that the idea of "satan" was a misnomer and misinterpretation of the text. This was found decades ago, if not centuries. Yet, it hasn't made a move. Of course this is me speaking as an outsider looking into the faith I was raised under.

However, the Catholic Church and the people will say that Satan has no power equal to God. But if you read the Bible and the situations there basic idea is that Satan has some sort of power that is almost of the same calibre as God. The temptation of Christ in the desert is a perfect example of that.

So even if the Church professes that Satan is below God and no where in the same league as God. The Bible and the teachings of these two separate worlds say otherwise. Further more, if there was no belief in Satan in the Church people would never be exorcised. And that's still practiced in the Church, a nice little department all for it.

[Leopolds Ghost]

49. The concept of purgatory is the one which makes the most sense

And is more conceptually defined in Buddhist faiths.

[vaberella]

58. The Catholic Church only used it as a way for people to pay their way to heaven.

It makes no sense within the Church because it is not influenced by any teaching but by money, during the Church's most scandalous era.

[Sebastian Doyle]

21. " Allah" is merely the Arab equivalent of the Hebrew name Elohim

And Elohim is the name for the Creator used in Genesis (in the original Hebrew)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

[KathieG]

7. LMAO!

:rofl:

[Bicoastal]

8. Wow, this guy's got some balls.

[Binka]

24. Sweaty Ones I'm Sure

Working hard to embarrass God. What a fucking loon.

[colonel odis]

9. what this man is saying is true sacrilege. as a christian, i am offended by him.

if his flock are worth their salt, they'll turn him out.

[bevoette]

11. ditto and agreed - INCREDIBLY offensive

i kind of want to print that out and take it to MY pastor just for some fun and intelligent discussion about how effed up that is - he'd be MORTIFIED.

[Nailzberg]

12. Someone's gonna get smote.

[bertman]

42. LOL. Past tense is "smotened" isn't it?

[Bucky]

14. This is the delusional mindset that McCain used to make fun of.

McCain knows these people are full of shit. This is why they've always hated him.

You watch--after this election the Republicans are gonna start saying we were afflicted with Obama because God was punishing his children for having cut a deal with the likes of McCain.

Total head cases.

[vaberella]

15. Well...that's taking religion to a whole new level.

That pastor earned himself a one-way express ticket to hell. As a Catholic we all know that is a threat to God and no one has the power nor the right to threaten God.

[ecstatic]

16. Remember when they prayed for rain at the DNC nomination acceptance speech and

the entire RNC convention was almost canceled due to the hurricane?

[vaberella]

19. Really? They prayed for rain? Hah. Christianity has a healthy respect for KARMA. n/t

[truthisfreedom]

17. Bizarre. He actually believes in other religions' "gods." Excellent christianist example.

Modern christianists are severely confused.

[azmouse]

18. Wow.... just wow.

[ecstatic]

20. If anyone has the video, please post! thanks!

[Borgnine]

23. Sometimes I wish Christ would come back...

...just to make all of his crazy ass followers eat their own shit.

[Skidmore]

25. Sounds like he is jonesing for a cage death match between his god and their god.

Wonder what channel it will be on.

[trof]

26. He runs a temp preachers company and website.

http://www.interimpastors.com/pages/Leadership%20Page.htm

[TheCoxwain]

27. Just as water, agua, H20 all refer to the same substance ..all gods are

are the same divine entity --and is similar to our souls ...

In effect -each of us is no different from God - (If such a God exists) ...

Self awareness is simply a property of the Universe.. Me being aware of myself, is the Universe being aware of itself ..

we are like drops of water .. God is probably the Ocean... your spiritual path is like the river .. they may be different from mine but ultimately takes you into the same Ocean.



I am thankful to all religions for codifying our basic perception of right and wrong....

BUT those who claim to speak for/to GOD - FUCK YOU ... And FUCK your BULLSHIT

I can make my own judgement .. I dont need a priest, a rabbi or a Mullah to tell me what is correct ...












:rant:

[Cheap_Trick]

28. where's a fucking lightning bolt when ya need one.....

what a dick.

[Left Is Write]

29. I have been sitting here for several minutes trying to formulate a response to this.

I am having so much trouble wrapping my mind around this person's apparent thought process that I am left with no response at all.

[NWPatriot]

32. Oh lawsey, lawsey, lawsey....

You can't "threaten God".

What arrogance this guy has to think that kind of prayer would be answered. I can imagine God, sitting on His throne, doing a 'facepalm' as this 'prayer' reached His ears.

This guy's getting an 'education' once he shuffles off this mortal coil.

[yardwork]

33. If they think that their God lost, will they just slink away and leave us alone?

I would be perfectly happy if all the fundies decided that their God had lost, the game's over, and they went away.

[TwilightGardener]

34. God needs to worry about his "reputation"?

:rofl:

[WinkyDink]

36. Could have stopped with "needs"!

[WinkyDink]

35. Same mental deficiency that has people calling Christ their "hero", not realizing the diminution!

[treestar]

37. For crying out loud

What friggin' egotism!!

Like Gawd cares about one little election in one country that much. Or that it means anything to Him.

:rofl:

[gmoney]

38. These all-powerful deities are just SO fragile...

I just don't get that about religion. "My God is all-powerful, but don't hurt his feelings..."

Hey Conrad, maybe YOUR FAITH is being tested, eh? Seems like you just failed, pal...

[ginnyinWI]

40. somewhere, a clock has lost its cuckoo. n/t

[comrade snarky]

41. Ha!

I mean common God. You don't want to be called a pussy do ya!?

Do ya?!!?

[AnnieBW]

44. Move over Jehovah

'Cause Isis is takin' over!

Or maybe Hanuman, since Barack keeps a statue of him in his pocket. :D

[olegramps]

45. simpsons had it right

I remember seeing, I believe it was Homer, say if you go to church and are praying for the wrong God you going to make the Real God madder and madder.

[Leopolds Ghost]

46. Monolatry is a serious heresy in the Western church. This guy is beyond the pale on his own terms

Monolatrism is the belief that more than one god may exist, but that only one is to be respected.

Anyone know what the opposite of Monolatry is called?

(e.g. belief in a universal deity that is found in all other faiths, as practised by the Ba'hai faith)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monolatry

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism

[Duer 157099]

54. Pantheism?

:shrug:

[Leopolds Ghost]

56. No, pantheism is similar though.

Pantheism is the belief that God is made manifest in all things.

Panpsychism is the belief that everything has a soul.

Monistic idealism is the belief that there are no discrete objects or ideas, we are all part of one individual thing, or that we are all "dreamed into existence" by god, or that we are all part of God.

Monistic materialism is the belief that there are no ideas period, that the universe is a single physical object (also known as the universal wavefunction) and that everything capable of being observed can be expressed as part of the universal wavefunction.

What I am thinking is the more straightforward notion (which fundies nevertheless can't seem to grasp)
that "any god worthy of the title is semantically indistinguishable from, or aspects of, "God in general",
and any properties ascribed to any such god are therefore either true or false with respect to the actual
God that exists (or can be said to exist, universally speaking). Therefore we all worship the same God
(or aspects thereof) although some beliefs may be truely or falsely projected on God."

A common notion in liberal Christianity, liberal Islam, Hinduism and Ba'hai faith.

[foxfeet]

47. Hubris. n/t

[Forkboy]

48. I wonder what degree black belt God has.

Because someone is in for a major ass kicking at those Pearly Gates. :rofl:

[baldguy]

50. Some wingnuts have figured it out.

Of course, that's not any god that sane people recognize.

[crossroads]

52. Methinks God neither has ego or reputation to protect!

Amazing discrace!
CR

[Duer 157099]

55. The Bible says God is a jealous God

The Bible actually paints some very negative pictures of God.

He's angry, jealous, vengeful. Not my cuppa tea, but certainly explains how his kids turned out (not Jesus, he was a good egg - but then, he only really had one parent didn't he? It's all so confusing)

[crossroads]

60. Yes I know... that was the reason I left the church...

...to seek a LOVING God! Religion and Spirituality are very different - and dogma keeps christians living in fear of their hateful God! I am happy to be free now!
CR

[Duer 157099]

53. "...and when you pray, go into your prayer closet..."

There's a reason that prayers should be said in private.

Public prayers such as this one are not meant for "God's" ears, but for everyone elses ears, obviously. People "pray to God" publically in order to communicate directly with their audience, has nothing to do with any "God" (but this is of course obvious).

He's threatening the believers, not God. THEY are the ones he's calling on for action (but again, that is obvious)

[TheKentuckian]

59. All three (Muslim, Jews, and Christians) are Abrahamic religions.

Ismael took his father's God with him. Reich Wingers are stupid and I strongly suspect most haven't actually read the Bible in a way that leads to any basic comprehension. Its a narrative but they only read the passages as directed by their preachers and therefore are dependent on someone else for context and lose the opportunity for any individual spritual understanding from a living document.

Their Bible is a dead set of rules that they don't understand and pick over for their own purposes versus an instrument of fluid living instruction.