So, I took my wife to the emrgency room this afternoon because she

[daninthemoon]

hurt her back. Her regular dr is at the VA clinic, and was not available. Anyway, the e.r. dr took an xray, told us she should get an mri through her primary care doc, and gave her some pain pills. That's not why i'm writing. The dr felt the need to lecture us on the danger from politicians promoting universal health care. He went on at length, telling us that the non-responsive care from the VA was what government health care would be like. Salaried doctors simply are not motivated to see extra/emergency patients, wheras billing doctors will fit in as many as possible to make more money. I would have argued, but my wife was in great pain, and we just wanted to get her meds and leave. We both felt violated. I suspect that every suffering emergency patient he sees gets the same lecture. Meanwhile, my wife still needs to be seen by a doctor who might actually do the mri and help her out.

[blogslut]

1. File a complaint

I don't think he's allowed to do that.

[1Hippiechick]

9. Ohhhhhh, blogslut.....LOVE your signature line....too COOL! LOL n/t

[flpoljunkie]

41. Another greedy doctor who puts his stock portfolio before his patients. Shame on him!

[WeDidIt]

46. Make sure you file it with the state medical board, too

That's an egregious violation of ethical behaviour and could cost that dov his license to practice.

[knixphan]

58. Hell yes. FILE A COMPLAINT!!

with CAPS LOCK ON!

just like that.

[dana_b]

2. if you have time..

after taking care of your wife, call the administration at the hospital and tell them that you don't appreciate being lectured to about politics and so on when your loved one is in pain and needs assistance. Seriously, I'm a nurse and there's no way we would ever do that nor should any health care professional.

[daninthemoon]

13. Thanks. Yes, tomorrow I am planning on making the call. Just had

to let du hear what happened. He kept nodding or shaking his head to lead us in following his "logic", like you might do to a stupid child. "Is this the kind of care you want?" shakes head no...It was pretty bizzare.

[JimGinPA]

3. Call The Hospital Administration Office And Complain

Hope your wife feels better soon.

[AllentownJake]

4. I would have told him

Thanks I'm voting for Obama because John McCain votes against fully fudning the VA system. Oh yeah and the people using his ER as a family pracitioner..

[yourout]

5. What a greedy prick.

Obviously did not think much of the oath he took.

[Clovis Sangrail]

6. *extremely unprofessional... FILE A COMPLAINT /nt

[FLyellowdog]

7. Complain...both to hospital admin. and AMA.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

8. You most certainly were violated.

What an arrogant asshole. I would think there should be some sort of medical ethics board in VA that should hear about this.

[demosincebirth]

10. I know three guys who get their medical care from the VA and...

they like it very much. Even if they didn't get up to par med care, it beats not having any.


I have Kaiser Permanente and their doctors are salaried...they have great doctors and a great organization.

[kath]

18. Re Kaiser - depends on where you are, Kaiser in Denver area SUCKS.

[demosincebirth]

23. Do you belong to Kaiser? Or just hearsay.

[kath]

30. My father-in-law died of colon cancer a few years back. The oncology and hospice care he received

from Kaiser was just horrific and incompetent. It was such a horrible experience for him and my mother-in-law.

[nini]

34. I used to work at a Kaiser hospital in So Cal

Let me put it this way: a doctor's father was in with a cancer and he paid out of his pocket to put him in a private hospital because the care was better. So, all the doctors making big money off the HMO they are partners in don't even trust the care there for their own families.


Kaiser works just fine for colds, broken arms etc.. get really sick - you're screwed as the bottom line is profit anyway they can get it.

[Honu one]

44. As said before, Kaiser is different everywhere

I've been on Kaiser in both Southern & Northern California, and I've used it in Hawaii too. They are very different and SoCal is (by far) the worst. I've been really impressed with Northern California's doctors and care, and as a dialysis/to be transplant patient I've seen my fair share of them. The Kaiser system is not for everyone though.

[Irishonly]

48. I received great care

from Kaiser when I was in cancer treatment. I know there are better supplementals for Medicare than Kaiser but I refuse to leave my doctors. They saved my life. I was diagnosed on a Tuesday and started chemo that same Friday. Next year I will be cancer free for ten years.

[nini]

65. Good for you.. you're one of the lucky ones

They didn't diagnose my friend's dad with lung cancer until it was too late - kept treating him for a pulled chest muscle :eyes: He was only 41 years old.

I know other's who went undiagnosed with heart conditions that eventually killed them that could have been treated early on to keep them alive.

the bottom line with Kaiser is they are the epitome of for profit HMO hell. They avoid the costly tests until it's too late too many times.

If you've got nothing else, then it's better than nothing. I saw enough while working there to never go near them again.

[Irishonly]

69. Wow

I am on SSDI now. The chemo did get rid of the cancer but also left me with a lot of problems. It seems I am always getting tested and haven't experienced any problems with them. My PCP is one of the best doctors I have ever had.

[nini]

70. Again - you're lucky and I am glad you survived

In no way do I say every doctor is crap there. There were some I worked with - especially a geriatric doctor whom I just adored. However, they are the epitome of HMOs and unfortunately many of the doctors there did consider profit since they own a part of the entire company. You obviously and thankfully got one of the good ones who fought for you.

[demosincebirth]

55. Everyone has their horror stories...usually second or third hand

[nini]

66. I guess you missed the part where I USED TO WORK THERE

I also know people who are now 6 feet under because those fuckers put profit before care in putting off costly tests and treatments.

So, save your fucking assumption I'm just repeating hearsay and don't know what I'm talking about. This has affected me personally more than once - FIRST HAND HEARTBREAK.

:grr:

[sakura]

25. I have Kaiser, too. As far as managed care goes, it's great.

I broke my leg badly (really badly!) two years ago, and they did an awesome job taking care of it. My final out of pocket was 100 dollars after a week long stay in the hospital and two weeks in a rehab center. I was terrified when my husband's work switched to them, as I was afraid of a managed system (we had been on the evil Humana plan years before), but our experience has been better than when we were on even traditional indemnity (Blue cross style) insurance. A couple of months before we switched over to Kaiser, my husband was hospitalized for chest pain. 3 days in the hospital cost us 5000 bucks in out of pocket expenses. Big difference there. The same was true when my son was born-- we had huge expenses that weren't covered-- traditional indemnity insurance doesn't cover well baby visits, for instance.

As for responsiveness of the Kaiser doctors, they have more time to listen, as they aren't worried about having to see a ridiculous number of patients just to make ends meet. Are there costs to the way they do business? Sure. They have a formulary for prescriptions, so you have to push if there's a specific drug you need (I had to, as I was on a specific med when we switched over). On the other hand, the other insurance plans we were on had formularies, too, so it wasn't so different. Also, everything is in house, so they have excellent computer-based record keeping. They can call up your file instantly, look at Xrays, see how physical therapy is going, etc. And you can email them and expect them to get in contact with you immediately.

[demosincebirth]

31. I like the fact that you can email your doctor and many times gets back to you the same day.

Also, refill RX online.

[sakura]

33. Yes, it's nice. And a heck of a lot better than what we got with Blue Cross. nt

[Elidor]

11. When you file your complaint, mention to them that the doctor is ignorant as well

Anyone in the medical profession who hasn't heard how deliberately underfunded the VA is must surely be a moron. Or dishonest. Probably both.

A close (and militantly atheist) friend of mine recently stopped seeing a psychologist who one day told her that she needed God to help her cope with problems, because that's what "normal" people have to get them through.
:puke:

[TornadoTN]

35. Bad idea - don't bring your own politics into the letter

Here's the deal - point out the violation and the nature of your complaint. Leave your politics and opinions to yourself. You want to show that the doctor was openly trying to bring politics into your wife's treatment at the hospital and you felt his intention was clearly biased and self-serving. Make your complaint about how this has no place in an emergency room while your wife is going through extreme pain and for that matter, any occasion in the hospital from the staff.

If you bring your views or start throwing facts back at them in a political manner, it will get discarded and thrown away quickly - and this prick won't get the comeuppance he so rightly deserves.

[msallied]

12. Ha, that's funny.

Billed doctors cram as many patients onto their rosters as possible, not specifically to make more money, but to make up for the fact that the insurance companies don't reimburse them for DICK, so they have to see twice as many patients to make up costs in order to keep their practices open! Because of this, the quality of care sucks ASS!

What a fucking liar!

Oh, and he says this while working in an E.R? Has anyone here ever spent LESS THAN four hours in an Emergency Room just waiting to be seen? And this dickhead is ARGUING for the status quo? Fuck him!

[Barack_America]

14. Completely inappropriate.

And unethical. Please, please report him. And I say this as a medical student.

[mscuedawg]

15. I'd file a complaint to the Adminstration...I've been in healthcare

for over 10 years...and that IMHO borders on teetering the the ethics line.

I'm also the daughter and wife of veterans. Its been my experience that military doctors (this is going to sound harsh) are those who couldn't make it in the civilian world. Before we worry about govt taking over health care...think about the insurance companies...I cant really see how one can be done w/o revamping the medical insurance world.

We have TriCare (hubby is retired USN) with no VA hospital close, so we have to follow the referral service of providers that Tricare covers. I cannot tell you the crazy amounts of charges have been "dismissed" by Tricare (for instance when my daughter had surgery)...and the hospitals have to eat it. Personally, if they can work Universal Healthcare like Tricare...I dont see a problem with it...sure, there's routes you must follow...but there are plenty of providers and the cost to us is lower than any insurance I've encountered...

Best wishes for your wife...I hope they are able to come up with a helpful care plan for her... :hug:

[benddem]

16. turn him in

he has no business talking to you like that!

[swishyfeet]

17. I think some people are overreacting here a bit

Nobody was violated.

Come on, if any of us posted about a conversation with a customer (even a patient) that converted them to Obama, we'd be off to the greatest page in 10 minutes.

Better to just confront them right then and there. No need to complain to everyone you can find after the fact.

[daninthemoon]

20. we were a captive audience. after telling us all he would do was

prescribe some painkillers, but before he gave us the prescription, we had to listen to his nonsense politicking. My wife was in pain the whole time. other patients were also needing his attention, but he chose this as his priority. we did not engage him in this conversation, we were there for his medical aid. confronting him then and there would have further dalayed my wife hetting the only aid he offered, the prescription. we could not just walkaway.

[swishyfeet]

24. He was wrong to do it

I agree, and had it happened to me I would have been pretty bothered (and a little shocked)

But as I said, this kind of thing probably happens everywhere these days, and when people talk about complaining to the AMA... well, that might be a little much.

Now if he started the Muslim thing, that'd be different. Or it coulda been Dr. Laura or something. ;)

[TornadoTN]

37. It's obvious that this guy is using the ER as a defacto McCain/GOP clearinghouse

I don't want my doctor talking to me about politics. I want my doctor talking to me about the issue at hand with my treatment. I really don't care which side they are on, I simply don't believe that the doctor can be 100% focused on my treatment while waxing poetic about politics.

[Critters2]

63. If the hospital was a non-profit, he was in violation of its tax exempt status.

If it was a charitable institution, he broke the law. If I can't preach about politics, other non-profits ought to play by the rules, too.

[knitter4democracy]

52. I've been through something similar. It really is very annoying.

One of the area anesthesiologists is a Republican state senator, but he still moonlights for his old practice whenever he can. He happened to be the doctor covering the post-op recovery area when I woke up from my kidney surgery. The pain was intense (had no pain control--horrific), and I couldn't open my eyes or talk yet for some reason. I heard him berating the poor med student about not knowing enough about the political parties and the differences between them, and it took a bit for my nurse to get his attention that I was waking up too early. I got mad at how he was hammering away at the med student, and I managed to answer his question (where the GOP got its start: Jackson, MI) for her, and of course, he yelled at her that her "out of it" patient knew more than she did, pushed some buttons, and I went back out.

I was hurting, awake before I was supposed to be, and he was pimping the poor med student on the histories of the political parties. Um, dude, you're so lucky I wasn't able to rip into you and tease you about all the stuff your knitter wife told us at the knit-in! He's a total jerk.

[ecstatic]

32. I disagree. If the couple asked for the doc's political opinion

that would be one thing. The doc basically forced them to listen to a pro-repug screed when they were vulnerable and desperate for help.

[Critters2]

62. His job was to treat the patient, and nothing else. It's a clear ethical violation. nt

[SoxFan]

19. Your doctor can kiss my hairy Irish ass.

What he did was unethical in light of the circumstances.

Not to mention he;s wrong on the merits of the argment.

I've got two friends who are family practitioners here in NH, and they are both adamantly pro-universal care. We need more physicians like Chris and Travis.

[muntrv]

21. Yeah, it's better when HMOs tell your doctor that they won't cover that treatment.

As usual repukes say government doesn't work. Then they get elected and prove it.

[progressivebydesign]

22. Please file a complaint. A dr. has no right to lecture anyone who is a captive audience.

What an idiot he is! Most of the drs. I know favor some type of universal health care, because they know that lack of health care makes everyone sicker.

Hope your wife is feeling better!

[Overseas]

26. And sorry to tell that doc but I've lived in Japan

and the national health care wasn't fancy, but it was a wonderful feeling not to have to worry about paying for health care, even as a Resident Alien.

That feeling of security outweighs any inconvenience. It is an amazing feeling.

Incentives to see more patients can be built into a national health system too.

[NotThisTime]

27. OMG, my DH's doctor saw my Obama shirt a couple of weeks ago and was gushing over him! That Dr does

not speak for all!!! What a nut.

[stillcool]

28. The way things are going..

private practice doctors will be going out of business, and emergency care will be all that people have. I wonder how he will feel then.

[quakerboy]

29. Wow

I work with a lot of elderly people. one of my job responsibilities is accompanying them to various Dr's appointments.

Those who are veterans, particularly the 100%ers, get the best care. They may have waiting lists to get in, but they make a point of working with those who are in the system. Far more responsive than the Kaiser P HMO that my Retired govt Grandma gets. Better than the ones with private insurance. Not quite as good as the ones with the ability to pay cash, I will admit, but Way Way f'n better than I get with no insurance and no money.

[Hamlette]

36. Ask him why health care in America is the most costly but ranks 37th in quality of care

don't argue politics with these bastards, ask they why their health care system is so bad compared to other countries.

36 countries have better health care than Americans and Americans pay the most for health care.

It usually shuts them up, especially doctors.

[LiberalHeart]

38. Tell him patients would have a shorter wait in the waiting room if he didn't give political lectures

[WallStreetNobody]

39. Ask him why doctors support Obama 4 to 1 versus McCain (n/t)

[TornadoTN]

40. Profit and Greed is the reason the healthcare system is in a mess to begin with

This pathetic doctor said it all - it's all about seeing the most patients as fast as you can so you can collect more money for yourself.

It may just be me, but if a doctor is in it for all the profit and not actually for helping people, they are in the wrong profession and won't give the best treatment to their patients? I've seen plenty of doctors that run through patients with just a cursory glance, write out a script, and off they go to the next person - possibly overlooking more serious problems or not giving the patient the treatment that they need had they taken a more thorough look.

[DesertRat]

42. Sorry about your wife. Hope she feels better

Someone told me recently that she went to her primary care doc. and he went into an unsolicited anti-Obama tirade. He said that he would have to give up his private practice if Obama becomes president. :eyes:

[elleng]

43. WHERE WAS THIS?

Come to DC, and go to Georgetown University Hospital ER! (I recommend it highly!)

SORRY for your miserable experience, which is NOT common.

[TooRaLoo]

45. In England, doctors get paid more for patients they help.

I'm sure that an Obama administration would be smart enough to know how to combat the salary = laziness issue.

File a complaint on this A-hole. Then mail him a copy of SiCKO.

[nichomachus]

47. I know of no politician who is even suggesting

that doctors by government employees.

Rather than the lecture, I'd be more worried about being treated by a doctor who is so ignorant.

[knitter4democracy]

49. He can speak with my husband, who'll set him straight.

What can you expect, though--he's an ER doc. Hubby respects very few of the ones in our area, since he often has to clean up their mistakes and hears all sorts of horror stories about pain not getting treated and worse.

Not all doctors are for McCain or against a single-payer nationalized health care system.

[YOY]

50. My response would be "Doctor, do I tell you how to do your job?"

When they say "no" (the obvious answer).

"The shut the fuck up and leave economics, sociology, and business to those who've actually studied it."

Fucking think they know everything. While they were cutting up corpses and playing jokes on their fellow pre-meds, I was balancing budgets...

[AZBlue]

51. You should complain to the hospital - that doesn't belong there.

Wrong time and place.

[D23MIURG23]

53. So much for "first do no harm"...

[annunakigohome]

54. Your second sentence wipes away this doc's argument!

Your regular physician wasn't even available. Well, do you think he limited his lecture to ER patients and if so, why? I would like to see a single-payer system. I think it's the only way to truly bring prices back down to Earth. But at least Obama is trying to tackle the issue in some way. We really need a major overhaul.

[Vinca]

56. If the ER doc was in private practice, he might be singing a different tune.

He'd be fighting with insurance companies for his pay and having to donate his services for uncovered care or allow his patients to suffer. Somehow I'm betting this guy would let the patients suffer.

[Joe Chi Minh]

57. When Aneurin Bevan started up the National Health Service in the

UK, most of the doctors at the time fought against it tooth and nail, but soon realised that the doctors on the government payroll were getting a constant flow of patients and earning good steady income. They decided that they'd like a piece if it, too.

Take comfort that that low-life doctor is evidently scared sick he's going to lose out. More fool him.

[LibraLiz1973]

59. What a dick

I'd report him. It is an ethical violation.

[Heather MC]

60. What Part of VA, I am in VA I will be happy to fake a pain to go there and lay him out

Although I am black I doubt he will have the balls to give me that speech

[verges]

61. Doctor, I would have thought you,

as a health care professional would have been aware that the Universal Health Care movement is NOT about socialized medicine or government employed physicians. It is about establishing a single payer Universal insurance. This should make your life much easier. You'd still be self employed. But, you only have to deal with one insurance company. That should also free up more of your time to actually practice medicine and play golf.

[mrbarber]

64. Thanks Doc...

Now do your job and Shut the fuck up. Nobody cares what you have to say outside of doing what you went to school for-helping people with physical problems and ailments. If we wanted some loud mouthed opinionated asshole speaking down to us, we would listen to Rush.

[RichardRay]

67. While my father was dieing at this time last year he went to the VA

in Portland, OR pretty regularly. In some cases he required treatment at another institution. In those cases he was, on several occasions, left untreated until we could get him back to the VA, get a doc there to go to bat for him and then get him back over to the other institution. I don't know how the VA is in other places, or with other constituencies, but for an old vet getting towards in the end of his life the Portland VA did the absolutely best they could.

Talk to any other doc's you can. In general, I don't think physicians are going to like that behavior. You may not get any direct satisfaction, but I'll bet he hears about it from his colleagues. The hospital where she was treated may have a patient relations ombudsman, talk to that person. Write a letter to the editor naming the doctor.

That behavior is so wrong I can't really find a way to express it.

[yourguide]

68. OP, any update?