Ralph Nader May Help Deliver Florida's 27 Electoral Votes To Obama

[Better Believe It]

Third-party impact flipped in 2008
by Rob Runyan
October 14, 2008

WASHINGTON -- Ralph Nader – still considered the spoiler of 2000 in some Democratic circles – may provide an unexpected assist this year in delivering Florida’s 27 electoral votes to the Democrats.

Nader hopes evidence of this shift will get Democrats beyond the idea that he is draining votes from their candidate. It appears it has.

In 2004, 24 lawsuits were filed in 18 states in 12 weeks challenging Nader’s right to be on the ballot, according to Jason Kafoury, national coordinator for the Nader campaign. This year, Democrats have yet to file a single challenge. They recognize it’s in their interest to include third-party candidates this year, Kafoury said.

As a result, Nader is on 45 ballots, one more than he was in 2000 when he won more than 2.7 percent of the vote. Nader was on just 34 ballots four years ago when his vote total fell to 0.38 percent.

Please read the entire article at:

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/washington/news.aspx?id=100603

[sandnsea]

1. Floridians are voting for Bob Barr

Nader is truly a colossal ass.

[jobycom]

2. The article seems to be hiding its sources too well to be taken seriously.

"A CNN poll released Oct. 1 showed Obama at 51 percent to McCain’s 47 percent in Florida when they go head-to-head. But Obama saw his lead jump to 51- 43 when Nader, Libertarian candidate Bob Barr and Green Party candidate Cynthia McKinney were listed."

Without further evidence, I'd say that poll means that Nader is losing a lot more votes to Barr than Obama is to McKinney and Nader. I'd have to see raw numbers to prove otherwise.

As for Nader, I don't know whether he cost Gore Florida or not, but the relevant point to me is that he tried. He actively supported a party and candidate who aggressively opposed everything he ever claimed to work for, and opposed the candidate who more than any other in history fought for what Nader claimed to believe in. He's a fool at best, a traitor at worst. He can rot, for all I care. Democrats aren't fighting to keep him off the ballots this year because no one can imagine him being a factor.

[Better Believe It]

5. What?? That's makes no sense whatsover

Nader "actively supported a party and candidate who aggressively opposed everything he ever claimed to work for,..."

No he didn't. Nader did not campaign for George W. Bush. He was a candidate for President and ran against Bush in 2000. And it was the 250,000 registered Florida Democrats who voted for Bush that made it possible for the Republicans steal the election. Why do some insist on ignoring that hard documented fact?

Perhaps, at best, a few thousand registered Democrats voted for Nader along with several thousand registered Florida Republicans. However, the great majority of those who voted for Nader in Florida were not going to vote for either Gore or Bush if Nader had not been a candidate for President.

The real question has to be, "why did Gore and Joseph Leiberman fail to win the votes of over 250,000 registered Democrats and over 100,000 Nader, socialist and other 3rd party voters?" Did Gore/Leiberman even try to win them over?

I haven't heard any reasonable explanation for this outside of the well known fact that Gore/Leiberman conducted a pretty lame campaign. And is that Nader's fault?

[jobycom]

9. Naive and uninformed

Nader campaigned more aggressively against Gore than Bush, and made conciliatory comments about Bush when accused of doing so, along the lines of "Bush won't be that bad, and if we have to throw the election to Bush to show the Democrats that they must do as I tell them to, then so be it." His own campaign adviser admitted that Nader wanted to defeat Gore to "teach him a lesson."

You can't spin that. Nader actively supported Bush--taking a ton of money from the Republicans, as has been heavily documented by all sides and admitted to by Nader--to defeat Gore.

None of my post was about Gore, so I'm not getting in an argument about how he campaigned or much Nader actually hurt him. My point is that Nader tried to defeat Gore, and tried to get Bush put into office. He wanted what's happened the last eight years, and even commented that he had to destroy the system in order to rebuild it in his image.

Fuck Nader. He's as responsible for the blood of the Iraqi children as Bush is. More, because Nader was smart enough to know better. Bush is just a fucking dog.

[Better Believe It]

10. So You Like Making Up Quotes To Inform the Naive!

Nader never said: ""Bush won't be that bad, and if we have to throw the election to Bush to show the Democrats that they must do as I tell them to, then so be it." So why do you use quotation marks? Do you normally quote someone with remarks you make up? How will you spin that .... guess we could just call it "swiftboating" someone you don't approve.

I think those who voted (Democrats & Republicans) for Bush's invasion and occupation of Iraq are "responsible for the blood of the Iraqi children" while you prefer blaming someone who opposed the invasion and occupation, Ralph Nader. That's intellectually dishonest, to say the least.


Once again:


Nader says polls indicate he’s helping Obama
Is Nader a Republican ‘spoiler’ this year?
ThirdPartyWatch.com
September 23, 2008

Contrary to conventional wisdom, Ralph Nader’s presence on the ballot in 2008 actually helps Democratic Presidential Candidate Barack Obama, according to at least five national polls conducted over the past three months, as well as a Florida poll conducted last week and a Virginia poll this week.

In each of the national polls, Obama’s spread over Republican candidate John McCain widened by an average of more than 3 percent when Nader and Libertarian presidential candidate Bob Barr were included on the menu of choices.

The CNN/Time Magazine/Opinion Research Corp. for Florida that came out this past Wednesday showed Obama and McCain tied at 48 percent. But when third-party candidates were added to the mix, Obama retained his ground, and McCain dropped back 4 percent.

CNN/Time Magazine/Opinion Research Corp
Date: 9/14-16
Florida
Added: 9/18/08

Barack Obama 48%
John McCain 44%
Ralph Nader 4%
Bob Barr 1%
Cynthia McKinney 1%

In a Sept 21, Washington Post-ABC News Poll of registered voters in Virginia, Obama has a 6-point margin over McCain, besting the Arizona Senator 50 percent to 44 percent. When third-party candidates Ralph Nader and Bob Barr are added to the mix, Obama’s spread over McCain grows to an 8-point margin (Obama = 51 percent, McCain = 43 percent), with Barr and Nader both chalking up 2 percent each.

You can read the complete article at:

http://thirdpartywatch.com/2008/09/24/nader-says-polls-... /

-------------------------------------

Here's some newspaper articles you may not have seen regarding earlier polls that also indicate Obama is does better when Nader and other candidates are included in the polling:

The Nader effect: Bad for Republicans?
August 27, 2008
Themorningcall.com

Ralph Nader, pursuing yet another run for president, isn't exactly a blip on the radar in battleground states. On the contrary, Nader is polling between 6 and 8 percent in Pennsylvania, Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada, a new Time/CNN poll shows.

A depressing sign for Democrats? Not exactly. Nader appears to be pulling almost all of his support from potential John McCain voters.

In Pennsylvania, for example, Barack Obama leads McCain by just 5 points (48 percent to 43 percent) when voters are asked to choose between the two, but 9 points (47 percent to 38 percent) when Nader is thrown into the mix. Nader gets 7 percent.

Maybe the Obama campaign should be helping to keep Nader on the ballot.

http://blogs.mcall.com/penn_ave/2008/08/the-nader-effec ...

-------------------------------------------------

Does Nader hurt McCain in PA?
By Wally Edge
August 27, 2008
Politickerpa.com
In addition to showing U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) with a 5 point advantage (48 percent to 43 percent) over U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), today's TIME/CNN poll also suggests that Obama's chances in the Keystone State may be boosted by the presence of third-party candidates on the ballot.

When voters were asked to choose among Obama, McCain and three third-party candidates, the Democrat's 5 point lead grew to 9 percentage points.

Obama leads McCain 47 percent to 38 percent, while independent candidate Ralph Nader attracts 7 percent of the vote and Libertarian candidate Bob Barr drew an additional 1 percent.

http://www.politickerpa.com/wallyedgepa/1513/does-nader ...




NBC/WSJ Poll: Obama keeps lead over McCain
Voters see Democrat as riskier pick, but rival has negatives of his own
By Mark Murray
Deputy political director
NBC News

After embarking on his highly publicized trip overseas, Obama enjoys a 47-41 percent advantage over McCain, which is unchanged from last month. The survey was conducted of 1,003 registered voters from Friday to Monday, July 18-21, during Obama's overseas trip. It has an overall margin of error of plus-minus 3.1 percentage points.

But Obama’s lead over McCain expands to 13 points when third-party candidates Ralph Nader and Bob Barr are added into the mix — with Obama at 48 percent, McCain at 35 percent, Nader at 5 percent and Barr at 2 percent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25816799 /

-----------------------------

Could Third-Party Hopefuls Foil McCain?
AOL News

Polls show Republican John McCain and Democrat Barack Obama running close in the presidential election. But could third-party candidates siphon votes away from McCain, much as Ralph Nader was blamed for doing to Al Gore in 2000? The idea has been floating around for awhile, and this week's NBC News / Wall Street Journal poll underscores the possibility that such candidates could hurt McCain.

According to the poll results, Obama had a 6-point lead over McCain, even though most respondents thought he was a riskier pick for president. But when voters were asked to factor in two other candidates -- former GOP congressman Bob Barr, who's running for president as a Libertarian, and Nader, who's running as an independent -- Obama's lead opened up.

Here's how MSNBC summarized it: "... Obama’s lead over McCain expands to 13 points when third-party candidates Ralph Nader and Bob Barr are added into the mix — with Obama at 48 percent, McCain at 35 percent, Nader at 5 percent and Barr at 2 percent. However, it’s important to note that the pro-Obama (48 percent) and anti-Obama vote (adding up to 42 percent) is consistent with the result from the two-way match up."

http://news.aol.com/elections/article/could-third-party ...

[SeeHopeWin]

3. I saw few Nader signs in the ground the past 2 days :)

I am in South Florida...

[volatileblob]

4. The deepest levels of hell are reserved for traitors, mutineers, and Nader! n/t

[Better Believe It]

6. You/re So Volatile! :) :)

[scheming daemons]

7. That'll make up for the 27 he delivered to Bush in 2000.....

[genna]

8. I still like Nader. His career as public advocate THUMBS UP / perrenial candidate MIXED BAG