Hillary Was Right About One Thing...

[Yes We Did]

She definitely made Barack a stronger candidate. And while her campaign was bringing up Ayers, Wright & Rezko really pissed me (an many other) off at the time, I can honestly say now that I am greatful she did.

It left him extremely prepared for when the McCain camp brought it up. And while it may be hard to accept, her brining up all that probably helped out the Obama campaign out more than any other surrogate could have.

For all that was said and done... and all the anger that many of us felt, you have to admit, WHEN Obama wins, it will be in great part due to Hillary and the campaign she ran.

And while I am perfectly content with Biden as VP, part of me really wishes he would have chosen Hillary. That being a moot point however, I do hope he appoints her to... her choice of positions in his cabinet. Maybe Health Care Czar? This time she'd actually have the support to get something done.

That said... Just wanted to say Thank You Hillary.

[SteppingRazor]

1. Also, the drawn-out primary is the main reason why we've got huge voter registration numbers

Heck, I'd say that's a way bigger plus to the primary than even the toughening up of Obama and making these connections into old news.

I would point out, though, that I don't recall Clinton ever bringing up Ayers. Just Rezko and Wright.

[rucky]

2. Ayers came up, but I think it was from Hannity. n/t

[SteppingRazor]

4. Exactly. Hannity's been pushing this BS since day one, but I don't recall anyone in Hillary's camp..

using it against Obama.

[No Elephants]

45. Who gave the info to Hannity, though? I doubt he dug it up himself.

[Yes We Did]

5. You are right about that...

The long primary definitely helped our voter registration numbers.

[lapfog_1]

3. I don't know that it made Obama a better candidate

but it sure de-fanged the media. One cardinal sin in news is for it to be "old news"... and Rezko, Ayers, and Wright are definitely OLD NEWS now.

[olkaz]

6. Yeah, this is just not provable.

And I totally disagree with you.

[Yes We Did]

9. You are entitled to your opinion.

Just as I am mine.

[ProSense]

13. You're not entitled to make up your

own facts.

[Yes We Did]

16. I wasn't aware that I made anything up... n/t

[ProSense]

17. The notion

that any Democrat deserves thanks for smears against another Democrat is your opinion, but it is ludicrous.

[Yes We Did]

19. So... What "FACTS" did I make up?

That was your claim, and I fail to see where I made up any facts.

[ProSense]

23. "She definitely made Barack a stronger candidate."

That is not a fact.

McCain would have had a seriously hard time pulling Ayers out. That he's doing it now is a sign of sheer desperation. Hillary knew of this because of Bill Clinton pardons.

One of the reasons 527s were the focus of much discussion was that Obama wanted to take them out of the equation and force accountability on the part of each candidate's campaign.

Obama would have simply fought back the way he fought Hillary, and because McCain is a Republican, it would have been deemed vicious partisan smear. I think he would have survived. McCain is a lousy candidate.

As a Democrat, Hillary's smears could have resulted in a significant hit to Obama's career had she won the primary. His loss would have been attributed to attacks on his patriotism and questions about associations with so-called terrorists.

It's beyond ludicrous to characterize vicious smear as vetting. The attacks are despicable now, and they were equally despicable then.

[Yes We Did]

27. So... Running against a strong opponent didn't make him stronger?

And I never said "vetting"

All I said is that dealing with that stuff early on made him a stronger candidate now. It's old news now, and because he dealt with it early on, he is better prepared to deal with it now.

That IS a fact.

[olkaz]

32. It's not a fact, and definitely not definite, and that was my original complaint.

Reduce it to "may have helped" and I'll jump on with you.

[Yes We Did]

36. Okay... Fine... It "may have helped" make him a stronger candidate.

I'm all for compromise.

[olkaz]

41. Deal!

:)

[ProSense]

33. Again,

what does Hillary's strength have to do with her smear tactics?

This is a flawed argument, and people need to give it up. Hillary's strength wasn't in the smears so it's nonsensical to try to spin them into a positive.

Thanking her for having used such tactics is ridiculous.

[Yes We Did]

37. She ran a strong campaign...

The final tally was reasonably close. Her staying in helped us register more voters...

Her campaign helped. Period.

[ProSense]

39. She ran a campaign where she accused her opponent of having ties to terrorists.

You can call it strong. I call it despicable.

[Yes We Did]

40. Look....

If you want to pick apart every aspect of her campaign, go right ahead, but that is not what I am doing here, and quite frankly, I'm done arguing semantics with you.

Her OVERALL campaign helped. Did I vote for her? No. I didn't like it any more than any other Obama supporter, but looking back at it, I prefer to look at the overall picture and any possible good that came from it. Can't help it; I'm an optimist.

Regardless, we both see this as we want, and so we just have to agree to disagree. Have a nice day. I'm done with this conversation.

[ProSense]

42. "If you want to pick apart every aspect of her campaign" What?

And while her campaign was bringing up Ayers, Wright & Rezko really pissed me (an many other) off at the time, I can honestly say now that I am greatful she did....Just wanted to say Thank You Hillary.

Disagreeing with this has nothing to do with semantics, it's a ludicrous notion.

[Yes We Did]

43. Have a nice day.

As I said... Done.

[ClarkUSA]

7. McCain 's smear and fear campaign against Obama has been Hillary Redux. Both played Rovian tactics.

We owe Hillary no "thanks to that" -- Hillaryland did nothing but try to cripple Obama for the general election as best they could
after they figured out they couldn't win. And they inspired Bill's "good friend" and that "great man" McCain to pick up where they
left off.

The need around here to put lipstick on a pig is tiresome. We should only owe thanks to Team Obama for staying on their
game and never wavering in the face of the unremitting ugliness flung from both the Clinton and McCain campaigns. His
campaign was ALWAYS tough - people just underestimated him constantly until very recently. Obama owes nothing of his
present success to Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson, or the other scumbags who ran Hillaryland's campaign (that includes both
Clintons).

Team Obama was always the best campaign in this whole race.

Hillaryland deserves nothing but our scorn for the fear-based, contempt-filled, race-tinged attacks they waged against
Obama from beginning to end. The idea that we should be "thankful" is laughable. Lipstick, anyone? :eyes:

[Yes We Did]

11. I whole heartedly disagree for all the reasons I mentioned.

But I respect your opinion on this. Regarless, the end result will be a president this country can be proud of.

[ClarkUSA]

21. Then you agree with Pat Buchanan, Tom Brokaw, and the Fox News crew.

Congratulations.

[Beacool]

15. Obama's campaign attacked Hillary relentlessly.

The main difference is that it was done covertly through emails, texting the media and through his surrogates while Obama stayed above the fray.

[ClarkUSA]

18. Um, no.

:eyes:

[Beacool]

26. Um, yes.

Take it from someone who was very involved in the campaign and who knows quite a few of the players. It's politics, Obama dished as much as he took.

[ClarkUSA]

38. IMO, your evident bitterness about how the primaries turned out has skewed your judgment.

It's plain to most everyone else that McCain learned everything he knows about attacking Obama from copying Hillaryland's
campaign tactics. It's a good thing for America that a majority of voters are smart enough to reject Rovian fear-and-smear
once and for all.

[mkultra]

34. you know, im afraid i would need more than assertion

to believe that. He takes the high road on purpose.
I dont feel that his attacks where anything more than refutations.

[StevieM]

51. I saw a lot more Rovian tactics coming from Obama then from Hillary. And the things you have said

about Hillary and her campaign are unfair and untrue IMO.

The only reason Obama is so far ahead is because Hillary has won over so many voters for him.

Steve

[Yes We Did]

52. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!

OMG... I'm Crying... OMG... :rofl:

[Beacool]

55. I agree with you.

But then again, I know plenty of the people involved and have heard and seen enough to last me a lifetime. I hope that someone some day writes an objective book on how this primary was conducted, particularly in the caucus states.

[bunkerbuster1]

8. Yeah, I'll sign on to that.

It goes against all conventional wisdom, to have a protracted primary fight, but in THIS case, it allowed America to get to know Obama well in advance of the general election.

And Hillary's more than made up for any typical-primary-campaign mortars she'd lobbed at Obama.

[Beacool]

10. Correction, she didn't bring up any of these issues first.

When the media finally started vetting Obama, they were the ones who brought up these three. Rezko she did mention during the SC debate, but only after Obama threw in her face the Wal-Mart issue.

Wright was brought up first by the airing of two videos: FOX (Hillary ain't never been called a n.....) and ABC (GD America, etc.).

Hillary abstained for days from saying anything on Wright until she was asked a point blank question and her response was that he wouldn't have been her pastor, she didn't trash Obama over it.

Ayres came out during the ABC debate in April and was first mentioned by George S. Up to that point her campaign had not mentioned it.

[Yes We Did]

12. I didn't say she mentioned it first.

Only that she used it. I am well aware of where it all started. Now how about the overall point of the OP; water under the bridge, ends justify the means...

If you wish to take me to task, then that's fine, but please at least be willing to acknowledge the positive message.

[Beacool]

25. OK, but I still think that they were legitimate issues.

Not just ad hominem attacks.

:hi:

[Yes We Did]

28. No agruments there.

:hi:

[ProSense]

14. Her campaign most certainly

did.

[chicagoexpat]

24. Only someone who doesn't know how the media works & refuses to remember what Clinton campaign did

can believe this. As reported by the very reporters airing the charges:

High level Clinton aides (such as Sidney Blumenthal) regularly repackaged the most hateful guilt-by-association McCarthyite "hit pieces" from "extreme right-wing websites, bloggers, and publications" and sent it to main stream media to try and get them to regurgitate the charges.

http://loomisnews.wordpress.com/2008/05/01/john-mccains-choice-for-a-running-mate-whom-else-but/

Progressives who refuse to recognize who screwed'em & how they got screwed are bound to repeat their mistakes.

http://loomisnews.wordpress.com/2008/06/06/the-clinton-party-becomes-the-democratic-party/

[Yes We Did]

48. I never said

this is the result she intended to reach. It is just what actually happened. That's all.

[mkultra]

35. george S. is a clinton operative.

and always has been.

[Solomon]

20. I hate these kind of posts. I don't give Hillary any credit for the

terrible campaign she ran, and I started as a Hillary supporter.

Might as well thank Sean Hannity, who couldn't wait to make America sick of these "issues".

He hasn't stopped yet.

[Yes We Did]

29. I am not making excuses...

I am just saying that it did make Obama stronger. That's all.

[Hutzpa]

22. I believe now it must have been a plan,

between the two of them, they knew what they where doing and we
can all see how Obama stepped up his campaign the moment his
attention where turned to McCain.

Also, Obama kept insisting that he was fine and never utter any
derogatory statement toward Hillary.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Uh huh.

And thank goodness McCain and Palin are bringing up Ayers. That'll help Obama in his next election.

:eyes:

[Yes We Did]

31. Let's worry about this one for now.

By next campaign you won't even hear about this stuff.

[No Elephants]

44. Howard Dean mentioned that while Wright was hitting the fan. He said that

Kerry probably would have been better off if the swiftboating had come in March, rather than after he was the nominee.

[JTFrog]

46. Did all the PUMAs get together and decide to flood DU with Hillary posts today and then

get all pissy when folks don't agree with you so you can rehash the primaries.


Brav-Fucking-O for coordination.

[Yes We Did]

47. Um....

PUMA? Me? Check my history. PrObama from the get go. Just an opinion.

Although, if that was the case, it would be better than their strike that started with the posting of the same poem over and over again.

[JTFrog]

49. For someone pro Obama from the start you don't seem to understand a thing about his

outstanding vision, preparation and ground game, or you wouldn't even begin to give Hillary that much credit for the success of his campaign.

"WHEN Obama wins, it will be in great part due to Hillary and the campaign she ran"

That has PUMA chum and primary rehash written all over it.

Give the credit where credit is due. To Obama and his staffers who have had to fight tooth and nail against ugly kitchen sink candidates.




*edit spelling - wish spell check worked in the subject as well as the message

[StevieM]

53. The claim that Hillary ran a kitchen sink campaign will be laughed out of the history books (eom)

[JTFrog]

54. A lesson the old timers in this race just haven't learned. History no longer relies solely on

hearsay. Unless we lose the internet, there will always be a vast archive of footage that will speak for itself.

I'm not about to rehash the primaries with you as was the obvious intent of the OP.

[No Elephants]

50. Election day is only weeks away. GET OVER THE PRIMARY, for feck's sake.

[yourguide]

56. Saying thanks but no thanks to her campaign tactics

sorry. I disagree, the only thing she did was the republican's work for them.

[sofa king]

57. It's a great example of what one can do with the initiative.

One reason John Kerry couldn't get anywhere was because he was directly fighting a criminal government willing to use all its resources--including fake terror warnings--to keep the initiative and control the message. Whenever Kerry got ahead, the criminals changed the circumstances.

Just the opposite happened this time around. The government can't change the circumstances because their corrupt policies have pushed our situation beyond their control. Hate, fear and attacks on reputation don't work as well on someone willing to treat those issues as so many pipeline fastballs to knock out of the park. They also don't work as well on the 77 percent of the population which now occasionally notices how fucked they are thanks entirely to the Republican party.