Just got off the phone with my sister, the minister...

[MANative]

We were raised in a very liberal, Democratic family, and when we were in college, both of us were pretty spiritual. Neither of us were particularly tied, though, to a specific church/theos. Over the years, I've become a little less spiritual, but while I've rejected organized religion, my faith in God and basic christian tenets have remained strong. Mary followed a slightly different path, and after spending a number of years doing other things, she went to seminary, obtained a PhD in Theology, and was ordained a Minister about 3 years ago. She's currently serving as a hospital chaplain. She and her husband - also a minister (pastor) - live in a fairly blue city in a very red state, and she called to let off some steam about the election.

Mary is furious over the continuing domination of the so-called religious right in the repug party. She's appalled at the injection of Creationism as a "legitimate" educational option. She's contemptuous of what she calls the "false and corrupted theology" and the literal reading of the Bible - a collection of documents that was clearly meant to be a way to share parables - as an accurate history and/or a road map for modern behavior (particularly Old Testament). Then she dropped a real bombshell on me...

She said that if McShame manages to steal the election or twist it to a "win" in some other nefarious way, she and Bill have decided that they can't stay, particularly in the state in which they currently live - too surrounded by, in her words "fundies without a clue." They will move to Toronto rather than see our country further destroyed and corrupted by that "false theology" and neo-con economics. I asked her if Mr. MANative and I could join them. Then we prayed together for Barack and Joe. I felt better.

[Critters2]

1. I don't know what denomination she is, but I looked into transferring to

the United Church of Canada four years ago. They were very clear that they didn't want American clergy running up there, that the transfer process would be prohibitively difficult (emphasis on PROHIBIT). I was told to stay here and work for change. So, that's what I do.

[MANative]

4. Her husband has a way in... his mother was

Canadian, and had property there. From what Mary said, it doesn't make it automatic, but much easier than it would be otherwise.

[Window]

2. Nice story. K/R.

The best to you all.



:kick:

[MANative]

6. Thank you. We're holding out great hopes that

Barack and Joe will be victorious for all of us - and nobody will have to go anywhere!

[TheKentuckian]

3. I share the concerns of you and your sister

Republiscum are also leading people away from Christ, despite the rhetoric.

[MANative]

5. Some of the least Christian people I know are the

falsely pious repugs who claim to be so morally superior to the rest of us.

[MadMaddie]

7. Tell your sister that we will need Christians like herself and

her husband to stay and fight with the rest of us to crush this poisen in our country. It won't be easy but we need them as leaders to show the way.

[MANative]

9. I think she was feeling especially burned out this week...

It's been very demoralizing for her to keep hearing all the religious hate smears against Barack, and she rarely discusses politics with people in the church - their church prohibits it - but most of their congregants are pretty red, and assume she and Bill are too. She gets dozens of the smear emails every day. :(

[roguevalley]

23. tell her to hang in there, there are lots of us here who love her. Imagine

the path Jesus took and how discouraged he was. In the end, things will be okay.

[MANative]

24. Thank you, roguevalley, for that sentiment.

You make a very important and valid point, and we both appreciate it. :hug:

[Triana]

8. K & R. I hate that the conservatives have co-opted and made a bad name for

Christians by twisting their beliefs around for their own political gain and control. It's not fair to people like your sister - and mine - who are decent people and not the crazy extremeists that the rightwingnuts have now caused too many people to think they are because they twisted other people's faith around to suit their selfish and greedy ends. I'm not a religious person, but it would seem to me that there might be an especially miserable place somewhere, sometime, for those who drive people away from "God" - whatever anyone believes that to be or not. And, that's what the conservative extremeists have done. Mixing religion with politics never has any constructive outcome.

What a horrible position to be in. Can't blame her a bit.

[MANative]

17. Her husband always says that organized religion is the

root of most war, and substantial evil! He's trying to change it from within the system, and it's often a very uphill battle.

[JSK]

10. Tell your sister about this website

www.matthew25.org

[MANative]

12. Oooohhh - very nice! Thank you,,, I'll be sure to

pass it along, and add it to my own list. :hi:

[JSK]

14. Cool!

I am trying to spread the word about this great site. Thanks for helping!

[JuniperLea]

16. Based on my all-time favorite scripture!

Thanks for this!

[RollWithIt]

11. That's the thing that bothers me about the "Literal" bible movement....

They pick and choose what is literal and what isn't literal. Heck, for every quote they like, there are 5 that contradict it. If we took the bible literally, we'd be dragging non christians out into the streets and stoning them to death Old Testament style.

[MANative]

13. That was exactly her point, RollWithIt.

Drives her nuts!

[JuniperLea]

15. I just love spiritual people... but religious people scare the hell out of me!

I'm sickened by so many who would profess to know God's mind, who would do horrific things in God's name. If God wanted to rule the governments of the world, he would have done it already. If he wanted all people to follow his rules, he would have forced the issue. If that were the case, the whole reason for putting us on Earth would be moot.

[MANative]

18. Quite true. And the manipulation has been going on

for centuries, and in the name of God in too many of his/her iterations across numerous organized religions.

[JuniperLea]

19. I was raised in an Assembly of God (Like Palin... shudder!)

And the hypocrisy pushed me out. My cousin, who attended the same church, is now a Christian Missionary in Israel. She and her family have learned Hebrew and are now studying the ancient dialect, and are also studying with several people who work with the ancient Bible translations as well as the Dead Sea Scrolls. She is learning so much, but mostly, she is learning how horribly we were led astray in our old church. I told her how I nearly walked out of her mother's church (my aunt) a few years ago when the pastor started praying for George Bush, and the war... she told me she would have absolutely walked out! I'm so proud of her. She is seeing a whole new light. I never discussed politics with her until she started telling me how upsetting "the old church ways" are to her now. She's been there over nine years now, and considers it home.

[MANative]

21. The study of ancient documents like the Dead Sea Scrolls

has always fascinated me. I think there's so much to learn from reading the original texts. It must be incredibly satisfying and enlightening for her. I envy her opportunity!

[Az_lefty]

20. we need to stop allowing the Religious Right to be called Christian...

in fact their not, it's the same old story of those using religion to lord it over others. I can't remember the verse in Matt. where Jesus called the religious of the 1st century hypocrites, but that seems to be what we're dealing with today.

[MANative]

22. I know the verse you're takling about... and there's

another about the humility required of those who claim to be religious - don't flaunt it, IOW!!