Police to polygraph B Girl because statements conflict with evidence. Shocker.

[MidwestTransplant]

The detectives are no doubt eating her alive. Moron.

http://pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/cityregion/s_594939.html

Police planned to administer a polygraph test to Ashley Todd, 20, because her statements about the attack conflict with evidence from the Citizens Bank ATM where she claims the incident occurred, police said.

[Warren DeMontague]

1. Yeah, well, only Liberal Weenie Commie Socialist God-Haters Believe in "Evidence".

"Evidence" is why we can't teach public school students the truth about the 6,000 year old Earth and Jesus's pet dinosaur.

[ThatPoetGuy]

2. Anybody remember Francisco Nava?

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2007/12/14/news/19744.shtml

[poverlay]

3. As a Mcbush supporter I'm sure her blood pressure is completely erratic. I can't wait

until they get the confession and start reporting what a freak McPhailin supporters are.

[Orrex]

4. The use of the polygraph as a 'lie detector' is bullshit pseudoscience

Although it accurately detects a range of physiological stress-responses, these are not well-correlated to falsehood.


Her case appears shaky enough that the police shouldn't resort to a flawed instrument, in no small part because her supporters will claim that the instrument is inaccurate if it "proves" that she's lying.

[MidwestTransplant]

5. Could be that they could get her to confess with just the treat of one.

[Orrex]

8. Then the confession is tainted, I'd say

Her lawyer, paid for by some well-funded Republican organization, will claim that she was so stressed by the threat of failing the test that she broke down and confessed simply to avoid the embarrassment of falsely being caught in a lie.


Sure, that would be a bullshit defense, but I'm confident that they'd offer something very much like that.

[Warren DeMontague]

13. It would seem, if she made the thing up, she was too dumb to not carve the "B" in backwards.

I don't think any "well-funded" Republican Cavalry is going to ride in to her rescue.

[Orrex]

15. Shame on you for mocking her attacker's dyslexia

And, anyway, even a half-assed public defender would challenge the threat of a polygraph.

[Warren DeMontague]

20. Okay, well, assuming this were some kind of GOP psyops, I just don't get the feeling that this girl

is exactly the Republican "A" team, as it were.

[Orrex]

24. We can only hope

[HooptieWagon]

39. True that, she's definately the "B" Team...

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[TexasObserver]

42. You clearly fail to understand that the polygraph is a commonly used tool by police.

In just this kind of circumstance.

You wrongly assume the police intend to use the polygraph as evidence. They do not. The prosecutors and police know much better than you what is and what is not admissible.

The purpose of the polygraph is (1) to determine if she will take it, (2) to identify areas of her story where she appears to be shaky or misleading, and (3) to help them determine areas in which she changes her story, and whether there are indications of anything misleading.

The polygraph is a TOOL in investigation. It is not admissible as evidence, but it is a useful tool, and the use of it in the case is to be expected. It's standard operating procedure.

As for what her future lawyers will try to sell, who cares? They'll use anything they think will work, but the evidence that she made the story up is fairly substantial. They'll try to plea bargain her and get her into a psych ward, instead of jail or prison time. She is nuts.

[Orrex]

46. Nothing you wrote is inconsistent with what I wrote. The polygraph is bullshit

And any use of it as any sort of "lie detector" is based in bullshit.

[MidwestTransplant]

14. Her guilt in court isn't important. Just that the truth comes out.

[Orrex]

16. The truth is paramount, but it absolutely mustn't be coerced

There's no ticking timebomb here.

[mhatrw]

26. Are you kidding? If she is telling the truth, BARACKO IS ON THE LOOSE!

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. She will admit it, claim mental distress, and apologize to the people of Pittsburgh

If it doesn't happen by close of business tomorrow I'd be astounded.

[Heather MC]

21. Since when does the "victim" need a lawyer in crime?

[Orrex]

23. When she transforms from the victim to the perpetrator

If, as generally seems to be the consensus, she filed a false police report, and if this false report comes to light as a result of the polygraph, then she'll get a lawyer. Supposing she breaks down and admits fabricating the whole thing, then her lawyer will attack the polygraph both because it's an unreliable instrument and because Todd's fear of its faulty results drove her to confess.

Obviously, a victim of a crime needs no lawyer--except when trying to recover civil damages, I suppose.

[mhatrw]

25. The police don't give a damn about pressing charges against her, Orrex.

All they are about is how to best protect the residents of Pittsburgh.

To do so they need to figure out if Baracko is a fictional bogeyman or a real threat.

[mhatrw]

22. She's the supposed victim, Orrex. Why in the hell does she need a lawyer?

This isn't about pressing charges against her.

Nobody is going to use this polygraph to prove or disprove her guilt. The police are simply trying to protect the public, which they can do more far efficiently if they get a better sense of whether this young woman is lying.

You are forgeting that if Todd is telling the truth, there is a violent, dangerous, dyslexic 6'4" Baracko roaming the streets of Little Italy looking for Republicans to cut up.

[Orrex]

29. Please see my reply to Heather MC, above

If she's found to have filed a false police report, then it will very likely become about pressing charges against her.

I agree with you that the police are trying to protect the public, and that they need to ascertain whether she's lying or not. I'm just saying that the polygraph is ill-suited to that task, except as a blunt instrument of coercion.

Why not read her tea leaves to see if she's lying, while we're at it? That would be as reliable a measure of her truthfulness.


FWIW, I'm confident that she has, at the least, embellished her story. I'm quite familiar with Pittsburgh, and others even more familiar with it have already analyzed her account of the event and found it suspicious for a host of reasons, geographic and otherwise.

But regardless of whether I believe her or not, the polygraph should have nothing to do with the investigation.

[Life Long Dem]

35. The polygraph is simply a tool for a confession,

and they wouldn't use it in court even if the courts would allow polygraph test. Then there is still the banks security camera. They could also be giving her a chance to come clean on her own before they decide what to do, if they charge her or not.

[Orrex]

36. It's still a bullshit technique and should be abandonded.

They might as well have a guy hiding under the desk yelling "she's lying" after every relevant question--at least then the falsehood of the technique would be foregrounded.

[Tutonic]

43. I'm gonna guess that a ham sandwich would be a better treat--

and then she'll sing like a bird!!!!

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. They're just hanging it over her head so that she does the right thing

and the whole matter can be dispensed with.

Expect a full public apology from this cretin by 11am tomorrow.

[Orrex]

10. Maybe someone will 'clarify' her statements for her

You know, in grand Republican fashion?

:puke:

[spag68]

9. Lie detectors

There have been some advances in the field using cat-scans along with polygraphs. Anyway for an important case like this, I think they will bring out SG-1s truth machine.

[Orrex]

11. I think that they need Buck Roger's OEI device

Which Dr. Goodfellowe assures us is wholly error-proof.

[HooptieWagon]

40. Why not just waterboard her?

The republicans shouldn't have a problem with that.

[Youphemism]

12. I don't think it's to get evidence. It's to break her down...

People who tell lies can either be cool cucumbers or, like most, someone just using what they can to navigate through a situation.

This person doesn't strike me as a good liar. They're giving her the test to crack her story, not to tell whether she's lying. The fact she's getting the test tells you they already know the answer to that question.

But when she goes down in flames on the test, she might crack and tell them what really happened. That's why they're doing it.

[Orrex]

17. Maybe, but...

see my statement above about what even a half-assed public defender would do with that.

[mhatrw]

28. Again, they don't care about convicting her of a crime.

Why do you?

[Orrex]

30. Why the fuck are you dogging me?

That's four badgering posts before you even gave me a minute to reply to your first.

Take a deep breath and relax.

[mhatrw]

32. Why are you all over this thread acting like trying for force this girl to

tell the truth is a bad thing?

Todd hasn't been charged with anything. If asking Todd to take a polygraph compromises the police department's putative criminalcase against her, who really cares? Isn't it far more important to public safety priorities to ascertain the truth?

[Orrex]

33. I'm 'all over the thread' because I was replying to people's replies to MY post.

It frankly surprises me that you'd endorse the use of coercive tactics against a woman in order to force her testimony. Presumably you'll ask for the same every time a woman claims to be the victim of assault?

If the use of the polygraph compromises the police department's case against her, then it's a gross miscarriage of justice. If she's lying, then there are better ways to determine this. Resorting to bullshit pseudoscience is simply wrong.

[mhatrw]

34. I agree with you in principle. If it were me, I would simply refuse to take the polygraph.

And I would explain exactly why I was refusing.

But I wouldn't lose any sleep whatsoever over having a police department ask me to take a polygraph in order to guage my reaction to such a request. They are just trying to lazily determine if there is actually a dangerous Baracko on the loose in an unfortunately too typical "bad cop" manner.

All they really need to do is break her down with routine but pointed interrogation. And requesting a polygraph is probably just one method they using to do so. If you are a College Republican, aren't you supposed to believe that if you haven't done anything wrong, you needn't fear polygraphs, blood tests, DNA samples or authorities reading your email or listening to your phone calls?

[truthisfreedom]

7. All we really need to do at this point is wait calmly for the results.

I have little doubt things will continue to be entertaining.

[TheDonkey]

18. WHOOPS! Jail this idiot immedietly.

[Life Long Dem]

27. There's laws against filing false charges.

[Orrex]

31. Careful--someone's about to pounce on you and ask why you want Baracko to run free

:eyes:

[Geek_Girl]

37. Well they must have looked at the video from the ATM

at this point it looks like there is no evidence to back up her bizarre story.

[HooptieWagon]

41. Nearby businesses supposedly also had video cameras that showed nothing.

Oops.

[HughMoran]

38. 5 posts on this one polygraph thingy

wow, politics at it's finest.

[Orrex]

45. Make a list of things that we're allowed to discuss, then

Because god knows we can't possibly talk about more than one thing at once.

:eyes:

[graywarrior]

44. May she shit her pants.