Breaking from Clark embed on MSNBC

[TrueAmerican]

Dean supporters are handing out smear flyers outside Clark campaign rallys.

More to come....

[deminflorida]

1. It's already started and they are so dumb to think the Press, like

(MSNBC is doing now), is not going to pick up on it.

[TrueAmerican]

5. We already know the Dean campaign has stratigized about this

on a conference call that the press found out about.

And now they are going to their smear campaign. It's really sad for them to think they can do this without any impunity.

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. Bad move on Dean's part.

I don't care for those kind of tactics.

[LuminousX]

55. Prove it was a Dean Campaign flyer

and not a random group of Dean supporters or a GOP ploy.

This is the 'problem' with true grassroots. You don't have a lot of control over the tactics of the few.

[LuminousX]

2. Let me see the flyer, and then I'll tell you if it is 'smear' or not

Not all negative flyers are 'smears'

[Donna Zen]

72. If you want it

Go find it yourself. I saw the dog and pony show the Dean supporters put on with that Kucinich slam. Nothing we find, scan, and prove will ever be enough. So I would think if the great and mighty oz is innocent, you can just go and prove it.

[LuminousX]

90. Innocent, until proven guilty.

[PVnRT]

102. Actually

the burden of proof is on the accusers. Sorry, nice try, want to play again?

[Hep]

106. Great attitude

Thanks for the help.

[deminflorida]

3. Hopefully the General can get his papers filed late...

and run in Iowa, even with fifth...he'll offer himself as an alternative to Dean, and put the nail in the coffin early....

[DoveTurnedHawk]

4. All Right Dean Campaign, It's Officially "On"

And always remember who the fuck started this shit, the next time your candidate ludicrously tries to claim he's got a positive message or is somehow above-the-fray.

Dean started it. General Clark will finish it.

DTH

[Padraig18]

10. Wouldn't it be proper to wait for evidence?

First, is there any evidence that it IS the Dean campaign, and second, is there any proof that the flyers are, in fact, 'smears'?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

14. Two Independent Sources Plus MSNBC

I think that's pretty credible evidence.

We'll see. I'm willing to reserve judgment. But are YOU willing to condemn this unambiguously and tell the Dean campaign to cut this shit out if it turns out the stories are true?

DTH

[cthrumatrix]

21. It could be Rove's people....then ahs the media cover the story...think

[Padraig18]

Where are the links to these sources.

I'm not willing to condemn this yet, because a.) I don't know what they say and b.) I don't know that the Dean campaign is in any way associated with it.

Let's put the rope away for a bit, shall we?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

29. Like I Said, IF the Stories Turn Out to Be True

Are you willing to condemn this tactic unambiguously?

DTH

[Padraig18]

32. Of course.

:hi:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

35. Thank You

Always a pleasure. Thanks for helping talk me down from the edge, I was really pissed off about this when I first read it. I'll wait and see how the story develops.

Although I have to be honest with you, I am willing to bet money the stories are true. :-( As you and I have both said, politics is a blood sport.

DTH

[Padraig18]

49. Well, DTH, call me a Chicago cynic, BUT...

.... having earned my 'stripes' in the ward wars, this tactic strikes me (on 1st impression) as something likely to have been done TO the Dean campaign, rather than BY it. It just doesn't pass the 'smell test', frankly; I've seen it too many times before, and it has ALWAYS been campaign X trying to make campaign Y look bad, every single time.

[LuminousX]

57. I agree with that

Depending what the flyer actually says, if it is pure nastiness, I'm willing to bet it isn't Dean campaing or Dean supporter created. We'll be able to tell if it meets the current rhetoric the campaign is putting out about Clark.

[JNelson6563]

62. I have to agree Paddy

This coupled with the story that gets posted daily about the Kerry/cancer-recurring business smacks of desperation. Neither the Clark or Dean campaigns are desperate.

Kerry is desperate, Gephardt is desperate and the reich-wingers always act as if they are desperate.

And let us be honest here, the other Dems would willingly stoop to any level to stop Dean, even if it meant handing victory to Clark (and not themselves).

If such a thing turned out to actual be doings of the Dean campaign I would definitely complain.

Julie

[Padraig18]

70. I won't name names, BUT...

... I would also not immediately exonerate the folks you mentioned, either. The first rule when examinging any event is "Cui bono?" (who benefits?). This obviously doesn't benefit Dean.

[redqueen]

65. Smacks of the other party

If the flyer is nasty nasty nasty, we can just about bet our farms that it's GOP meddling, trying to hurt Dean.

I may think Dean's not the best, but he's MILES above the sorry-a$$ed excuse for a leader that stole the WH last time.

I think the GOP is scared $hitless about this election. This, if we can reasonably assume it came from Rove&Co, is pretty much proof of that fact.

Go Dems! We got em manipulating polls, interfering in campaigns, and rigging voting machines!!!!!!

I think the campaign managers should all have a big meeting, and decide how best to capitalize on the fear of the right. :D

[BootinUp]

110. You got it right, take no prisoners....

you hear someone talking in the background "...Is my Tank ready to go?! We have a job to do!"

BBBBRBRRRRBRRRRVROOOM

[9119495]

34. If its true, I'll notify the Dean Campaign to stop.

But again, lets see the proof--before we get all militant.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

39. Fair Enough

And thank you for taking a stand against this type of tactic.

:thumbsup:

DTH

[Padraig18]

40. So will I.

But yes, let's wait for proof.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

42. Done (eom)

DTH

[AntiCoup2K4]

63. MSRNC is a credible source?

For WHAT??

[DakotaDemocrat]

82. Just wait a minute...

...lets be above this, Clark followers. We should still run the campaign we've always run. Let our candidate be above the fray.

Stick to the truth on the ISSUES...

Poor showing for some Dean supporters. They are not all like these people. That being said, the Dean camp must make a good faith effort to control. I'm suggesting the same for us...

[Leilani]

128. And CNN

Just reported from New Hampshire!

[LuminousX]

17. Dean started a lot of things

It's called being the lead dog.

I'm still reserving comments about this until I see the text of the flyer.

Go ahead and get yourselves worked up though. That is more important, right? Eagerness to be a victim is not attractive.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

28. You Support Dean, and You're Criticizing MY "Eagerness"

To become a "victim"? Wow, that is rich.

Unlike many here, I actually get off my ass and do things for my candidate in real-life. Of course, that doesn't prevent me from getting pissed off when my candidate has most likely been slimed by another candidate.

If that's true, you'll see this "victim" doing a hell of a lot more than just sitting back and taking it, or even just complaining about it. That's for goddamn sure.

DTH

[LuminousX]

41. LOL

Question: Have you seen the flyer? How do you know they are 'smears?' What criteria are you using? Is one candidate justified in highlighting negatives about another?

I didn't criticize YOUR eagerness to be a victim, I criticized the Clark supporters eagerness for the Clark campaign to be a victim. As if they are just waiting to play Rocky, get beat up a bit so they can come out with both fists wailing and then cry 'self-defense' when they land their blows. Screw that noise. Attack or don't attack, but don't try to justify it as 'the other guy started it.' It is a political campaign, it starts the moment the hat is thrown in the ring.

[cspiguy]

75. will eat those words

n/t

[Padraig18]

6. Dupe:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=75448&mesg_id=75448

[TrueAmerican]

11. Not a dupe. The media is reporting this now.

new info.

[Padraig18]

16. The SUBJECT is a dupe.

Just because Al Sharpton drove a Chevy to the debate, and Kerry a Ford, doesn't justify a new thread about the debates.

[Kahuna]

80. Now cut that out!

:evilgrin:

[Padraig18]

86. Would it be snarky to post this?

6. You may not start a new discussion thread in order to continue a current or recent flame war from another thread. The moderators have the authority to lock threads in order to contain flaming on a particular topic to only one thread at a time.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3

:P

[Jerseycoa]

7. Gee

I guess Wes should call Terry and cry about it.

[incapsulated]

9. lol ;) n/t

[deminflorida]

8. I guess Clark supporters are going to have to do the same thing

at Dean Rallies, but your going to need to find a way to post a book not just a flyer...maybe handing out floppy diskettes will work...it'll take that much space to document just the number of times that Dean has put his foot in his mouth...

[Padraig18]

12. Again, wait for proof...

Don't you think that mighjt be prudent, rather than becoming a lynch mob?

[incapsulated]

24. I dont' know what to believe

I haven't seen the report myself.

Frankly, even if it's true, could it get any nastier around here unless we can reach through our monitors and hit each other with clubs??

[trumad]

15. Are you guys from Mars...

Let's see the flyer first ya think? BTW: Clarks my guy but shhheeeesshhh, the hyperventilation is nuts....

[TrueAmerican]

23. How'd ya know?

Martians for Clark!

[RageAgainstTheirMachine]

13. I am vindicated.

[maddezmom]

18. yes ~you are :)

Hope someone gets the flyer scanned so we can see it.

[dobak]

19. LOL!!!

:-)

[unfrigginreal]

20. Not, by a long shot. n/t

[Padraig18]

30. No, you're not.

We have yet to see a.) the flyer or b.) proof that it is in any way condoned or sponsored by the Dean campaign.

Let's put away the rope; we can always have a hanging later, but I'd prefer a fair trial 1st...

[RageAgainstTheirMachine]

36. I just said the flyer existed

I never said Dean was directly involved. In fact, I said just about the opposite.

[Padraig18]

44. You SAID "I am vindicated".

"Vindicated, as a response to the initial post, implies agreement.

[Renew Deal]

43. Congrats on your first DU exclusive.

Remember, Rage broke it here first.

:toast:

[JNelson6563]

45. Oh?

For which act?

Write anything about folks tasting their own blood lately? Hmmm? That was some sick shit.

Julie

[AntiCoup2K4]

68. Yeah right....

Your buddies are probably the ones handing out the flyers, Chad.

[Kahuna]

84. Amen, Brother!

:yourock:

[xultar]

22. Every Clark supporter here is fined $10.00 donation to Clark!!!!

Puhleez, don't start that here people. Remember we support General Smackdown. No, kinkos, BS, flyer is gonna put a dent in the General's Campaign.

We are above it all.

So, Everyone here is fined $10.00 smackers. Http://www.clark04.com

Please PM your contribution invoice numbers to me.

thanks...

edit (every clark supporter here is fined)

[Hawkeye-X]

46. Done. $10 to Dean.

What do you think of that?

Hawkeye-X

[xultar]

56. I've fined some Dean people to donate to Dean also. Isn't that

kinda like playing with yourself but not XXX type of playing? ;)

--on edit

What do you think of that?!?!?!?!

[Walt Starr]

98. I tire of your "fines"

Who appointed you the campaign hall monitor?

I'm sure Skinner wouldn't do something like that.

[Clark Can WIN]

25. Wow Dean must be DESPERATE AND SCARED

Otherwise why would he stoop to dirty tactics like that? Oh yeah, modus operandi and all that.

Wait, wasn't he the candidate that called on McCauliffe to stop everybody from picking on him?

D * Duplicitous
E * Ego maniacal
A * Acerbic personality
N * Not your next president

[LuminousX]

54. He called McCauliffe to get McCauliffe to do what Brown once did

which was to guide the level of negativity as best as the chairperson could. All Dean did was verify the DNC is opposed to his candidacy. Interesting McCauliffe is resigning....

[Clark Can WIN]

66. In other words he loves to dish it out

but he can't take it.

Go ahead and cry Dean. Cry baby......... cry.


Bring it on. The General can take it.

And the voters............ they can smell fear.

[LuminousX]

83. 2nd grade much?

If the Dean campaign is afraid, good for Clark.

Now you do realize you are asking for Dean to 'bring it on' but are complaining that there is a possibility that he has 'brought it on.' The irony is thick.

I'm still waiting to see the flyer. I, unlike some, prefer proof.

[Clark Can WIN]

115. head in the sand much?

Reporters on teleconfrence call were Dean camp plans dirty tricks.
DU'er finds and reports first hand account of dirty tricks.
MSNBC imbed reporter confirms.

[LuminousX]

117. But still no copy of the text of the flyer... hmmmm

[xultar]

26. Move along people, nothin to see here...please, move along...n/t

[Caution]

27. And what is wrong with this?

Since when is it considered improper for one candidate to try to sway the supporters of another? I thought that was part of what the whole political process was about? If the fliers are libelous then clark should speak out about it, otherwise what is the big deal?

[Jack_Dawson]

31. Verrrrrrry Classy, Dean Supporters

[Padraig18]

33. ummm...

let's wait for proof, shall we, even though lynchings ARE more fun, I suppose...

[xultar]

60. We need proof, there's no proof it is Dean supporters...

KKKarl Rove? He's got my vote!

[DancingBear]

37. Do not respond in kind!

If this is indeed true, please all Clark supporters stay above the fray. We know the way Clark handles things - let him do it. His response team will cut with the knife far better than we.

BTW, where is this happening? In NH? Clark is doing two large meetings in southern NH today. I don't have MSNBC access at the moment, so if someone could tell me that it is indeed Peterborough, NH (where Clark is now) I'll see if I can get friends up there to get me a copy of said flyer, and scan it in.

[CWebster]

38. Could always be Clark people

deliberately seeking to frame the Dean camp. Especially since they were "discovered" and conveniently removed before anyone could see them by an operative with a reputation for dirty dealing.

I smell a rat.

[xultar]

50. You are right, it could be Clark supporters or another candidates

supporters.

[Renew Deal]

52. I smell a rat too.

And I think it has DFA tatooed on it's back. I have met the Clark people in NH. They are not spending any time on Dean.

[xultar]

53. It could also be the Iraqi Nuclear engineers...Did u see the drawings?

[Clark Can WIN]

76. I heard it was the underground Hong Kong

transport authority. They're always looking for a way to frame Dean because they fear him.

[xultar]

85. I heard they found the same flyers in Uncle Saddy's spider hole

so it coulda been Uncle Saddy who did the frame job!

[in_cog_ni_to]

61. Oh, Puhleeeeze!

I'm sure he would spend money and time writing nasty things about himself and hand them out to the people who just took their time to attend a town hall meeting on his behalf. What a ridiculous statement.

The Dean campaign is threatened by Clark's poll numbers. They're scared shitless so this is what they resort to. Pretty pathetic!

[CWebster]

81. Except the person who reported the story

of ABD fame, found the fliers and removed them all before anyone saw them. And the mission of the ABD movement? Stop Dean at all costs---by any means necessary. Now play it back to me, 'cause ANYONE can print up a flier and claim it was from Dean's organization. Ask the Bush campaign - they would stop at nothing to foul McCains good name.

[Kahuna]

88. Er....except that the MSNBC embed confirmed it...

:eyes:

[CWebster]

92. Oh well then, that confirms it

For crying out loud.:eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. I hope they show one of flyer on

NATIONAL TV!

[madrchsod]

51. bush has received over 150 million dollars

worth of bribe money so he can give away the rest of the united states and all the dumb assed democrats can do is fight and bitch among themselves.isn`t it better to fight the republicans than fighting among ourselves? i guess not according to some people in the different camps. i can`t wait till the primaries are over,this crap is getting to sound like what bush did to mccain.....

[MoonAndSun]

58. TrueAmerican posted this at 1:10 pm EST,

it is now 1:35 and has not told us what MSNBC has said is actually in the flyers, or did I miss it?

[incapsulated]

59. Well, now they're doing Gephart embeds

So they are cycling through them. Don't hold your breath.

They obviously have no clue of the desperately important priorities of the GD2004!! ;)

[Jerseycoa]

64. So true

:D

My cable system went on emergency alert test throughout the embed report. I was screaming!

[xultar]

71. That was the Repuke campaign who put out the Emergency Alert n/t

[Donna Zen]

67. Until this moment

I've heard about plenty of this fuckin' shit going on for months. In letters, in phone calls, and door to door...actually, considering what Dean has lied about, and some of the fuckin' shit I've seen on this board, this is nothing new.

Now tell me why I'm suppose to give my vote to what is essentially a group whose over riding ideology is to ignore the truth and run with the pigs. It makes the DLC look like muckraking angels. Litte wonder, since Trippi's specializes in blue dog politics.

My vote means more than that to me. So you and Trippi can blow it out your ass, you will never get my vote.

[Padraig18]

73. Wouldn't you prefer PROOF?

Or is a lynching more satisfying?

[Donna Zen]

87. You are not the problem

But I have seen proof posted here, people who took their own time to find the evidence and have it scanned. The reward for these folks was to be taunted by Dean supporters. Okay, fine, nothing is enough, then I will not play those games.


I've been on the ground in NH, and believe me this crap is going on.

[redqueen]

74. Don't play into Rove's hands

You can Dean believe whatever you want about Dean, but for Goddess' sake don't cut off your nose to spite your face!

This is what they want... to split us.

I hate some of the platforms of other candidates, but every single one of our candidates is LIGHTYEARS better than the knuckle-dragging, beer-swilling, single-syllable-mumbling MORON who STOLE the oval office from us last time!

We MUST all unite behind whomever wins the nod. Anything else is offering your kids (or your neighbors', if you're childless) up for sacrifice to the only god Bu$hCo worships: MAMMON.

[Donna Zen]

93. Don't blame the victim

Rove has nothing to do with those flyers.

Trippit plays rove's games. Same ol' same ol'.

It is the Dean campaign playing into rove's hands. What? Any piece of shit thing Deans says or trys to do is fine, but getting pissed about it makes me a rove plant. Sorry...I won't live that lie.

[redqueen]

107. I'm not 'blaming' anybody

I'm trying to warn you that by swearing not to vote for someone that may be our nominee is bad for this country.

I don't automatically assume this was done by the Dean campaign. There are no scanned copies available, there is no clear indication it was approved, and, quite frankly, I think Dean is above your garden variety GOP-style character assassination.

And where did you get the idea I was calling you a 'rove plant'?! I did no such thing. I'm simply pointing out that if this was indeed a 'dirty GOP trick' then you're falling for it hook, line, and sinker.

[xultar]

78. OK, take a deep breath...you're fined a $10 Donation to the campaign

of your choice.

You're not really angry are you?

It's just silly flyers.

[Donna Zen]

100. Those flyers are the tip of the Dean campaign.

I will make a donation to Clark.

But I am finished with being told to play nice, and keep your eye on the prize, while one campaign slings the sleeze at will.

[in_cog_ni_to]

94. I'm with you, DZ!

This kind of shit is uncalled for. Why is it ONLY the Dean people doing this stuff? AND, it's ALWAYS poo pooed by the Dean supporters on DU.

I've read about Clark supporters being harassed on the streets on NY by Dean supporters. The ONLY people to heckle a candidate at the Florida Democratic Convention, were Dean supporters who heckled Clark. A man who was putting up Clark signs in NH was given the finger by a car load of Dean supporters. WHY is it ONLY Dean supporters we hear about doing this? Never Gephardt, Edwards, Kucinich, Sharpton, Kerry, Lieberman or CMB...it's ALWAYS DEAN supporters. I believe they did this and after the flyer is posted on DU and seen on TV they will STILL poo poo it and call it a lie. I would NEVER, EVER vote for Dean now. This shit SUCKS!

[in_cog_ni_to]

95. dupe.

[redqueen]

69. This is too general... where are details?! This smells of ROVE!

This tells me they're scared $hitless!!!! They're meddling in campaigns, rigging voting machines, and manipulating polls... we got em on the RUN!

Who else thinks all the Dem's campaign managers should have a meeting and figure out how best to capitalize on the frightened scampering by the right?

Call them today!

[jmaier]

77. My word

Why doesn't everyone just calm down. This sort of thing happens in every election and it's most likely the actions of some avid supporters rather than an organized campaign ploy. It's simply not worth the energy. It's like putting your guy's posters over top of another candidates, etc.

It's pretty silly and relatively harmless. Hardly worth risking a heart attack to get upset about.




Wes Clark. He will make an extraordinary American President.

[KittyWampus]

79. Most Likely Overly Avid Supporters Seems About Right

but who knows :shrug:

[bain_sidhe]

96. And possibly 3rd candidate supporters

Look, it would be win-win for some third candidate - Trash Clark AND make Dean look bad. What's not to love?

IOW, I too say, shake it off, keep moving forward. And besides, WWWS? He'd probably say something like...

Today, according to an Associated Press article, the 1.3 million employees who were promised overtime pay may not actually see their paychecks grow. President Bush's Labor Department has proposed strategies employers can use to decrease their payroll costs and avoid paying workers what they're due.

"The Bush Administration is shortchanging America's hardest working families. When you work the late shift to put food on the table, you deserve fair pay for your hours," said Clark. "The Bush Administration talks a lot about family values. I think it's high time they started valuing families. For too long, our president has been putting the special interests over the interests of working Americans, and that's simply unacceptable. Our hardest working American families deserve better."

Or, maybe

"During the last election, President Bush promised to meaningfully reform our immigration system," Clark said. "That's one of many promises Bush hasn't kept. Now that we're once again in an election cycle, the Bush Administration is talking about immigration reform once again. We need leadership that is focused on the next generation, not just the next election."

Clark believes that "reform must be more than a temporary worker program and a computerized registry that will create a permanent class of temporary workers without rights." Clark supports comprehensive reform based on the core principles of economic security, access to legalization, family reunification, and homeland security.

"We must pursue reform that will unite families instead of dividing them. And that will ensure that hard-working, law-abiding, undocumented workers can eventually earn their citizenship," Clark insisted. "We need leadership in the White House that recognizes the important contributions that immigrants make to this country."

Something like that, anyway. (Both of the above are recent press releases, more can be found at http://clark04.com/press/)

[LuminousX]

89. Rallies - the original post indicates this has been happening often

Yet we still don't have the text of the flyer.

[Zomby Woof]

91. it is NOT above Dean to stoop this low

I have personally experienced enough of the bullying by his supporters to know his campaign workers ARE capable of these tactics.

As for charges that his campaign is not 'desperate' enough to do this, desperation has NOTHING To do with why these tactics are being employed. Dean has led in fundraising and in many polls for months nowm, but just try expressing even the MILDEST of criticism right here on DU and watch yourself get swarmed with attacks and hate. The behavior that manifests itself here on DU every day also does so in 'real life', with real campaign events.

Rove does not need to do this - and it gets old ascribing him as the micromanaging mastermind behind EVERY foul deed on the campaign trail - because these tactics are right at home with Dean and his campaign workers.

Do I have proof? No. Let's just say I would be the LEAST surprised of just about anyone on this board if it proved true his campaign was behind this.

I am in solidarity with the Clark campaign on this one, having had my campaign for DK similarly bullied and smeared by Dean supporters.

[CWebster]

97. zomby

you only play one tune---why should anyone bother at all? No one puts as much into criticizing Dennis compared to your every single post attacking Dean. I rather like Dennis more and more and I hope it doesn't offend you deeply or disappoint your expectations to hear a Dean supporter admit that.

[Zomby Woof]

105. nothing offends me

But if the majority of Dean's supporters were as fair, maybe I wouldn't spend so much time trying to get the word out to the undecideds NOT to cast their vote for a venal and crass asshole like Dean. :-)

[Padraig18]

108. Uh, Zomby? How would you like it if...

... I called DK names? I can think of some, but they would add nothing substantive to an intelligent political discourse, now would they?

[Walt Starr]

99. Link please

Thank you.

[Renew Deal]

104. You didn't ask for links in this thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=75932&mesg_id=75932

Funny huh?

[Walt Starr]

111. Because I've seen the links to those before

I haven't seen any links to a credible source on this yet.

I want to know what the fliers say. From everything I've heard through the third and fourth hand sources here, they sound pretty truthful about Clark's questionable background.

[LTR]

101. This sounds like a Rove stunt

I'm putting on a different tinfoil hat.

This has the makings of a Rethuglican prank, to divide the party further.

I'm not starting any civil wars until I see some proof. And I'm a Clark supporter, and nothing I've seen will switch me.

[bain_sidhe]

103. WWWS?

I posted this up thread, and liked it so well I decided to give it it's own heading... So, what would Wes say? Probably something like:

He'd probably say something like...

Today, according to an Associated Press article, the 1.3 million employees who were promised overtime pay may not actually see their paychecks grow. President Bush's Labor Department has proposed strategies employers can use to decrease their payroll costs and avoid paying workers what they're due.

"The Bush Administration is shortchanging America's hardest working families. When you work the late shift to put food on the table, you deserve fair pay for your hours," said Clark. "The Bush Administration talks a lot about family values. I think it's high time they started valuing families. For too long, our president has been putting the special interests over the interests of working Americans, and that's simply unacceptable. Our hardest working American families deserve better."

Or, maybe

"During the last election, President Bush promised to meaningfully reform our immigration system," Clark said. "That's one of many promises Bush hasn't kept. Now that we're once again in an election cycle, the Bush Administration is talking about immigration reform once again. We need leadership that is focused on the next generation, not just the next election."

Clark believes that "reform must be more than a temporary worker program and a computerized registry that will create a permanent class of temporary workers without rights." Clark supports comprehensive reform based on the core principles of economic security, access to legalization, family reunification, and homeland security.

Something like that, anyway. (Both of the above are recent press releases, more can be found at http://clark04.com/press/)

**edit: fixed formatting**

[BootinUp]

109. Oh-Boy. This means war!

Is it a good idea to piss off the General?

[Padraig18]

112. I thought 'the General' was in favor of waiting for PROOF?

Shouldn't you be in favor of it, too, or are you more of a 'pre-emptive' kind of guy? :eyes:

[BootinUp]

113. Hey that was my first reaction

Of course you haven't seen my second reaction.. :evilgrin:

(A little humor was involved in both posts BTW)

:hi:

[Padraig18]

119. OK, I'll re-sheath my knife.

:hi: :P

[windansea]

114. another 400+ thread of denial coming

gentlemen...start your scanners

last time I looked at that thread I think there was ONE Dean supporter who condemmed the "I am the only anti war" Dean tactics

I can't imagine an embedded reporter lying about this.

the smell test?? smells like Trippi to me

[Hoosier Democrat]

116. A new Board member chimes in

Hello!

I'm a long-time reader, first-time poster to this Board. I think it is incredible, but I am a bit uneasy about this seemingly endless bickering between the Democratic factions here. Not that I'm against free speech, but can we tone it down a bit!

Let me get this out in the open right away: I am a strong supporter of Howard Dean. Does that mean I want to bash Wes Clark? No, I think the general is an equally stellar candidate. I think Clark has run a classy campaign and I will support him enthusiastically if he is the nominee.

I am just getting really tired of the constant anti-Dean carping coming out of certain Democratic factions. Let's face facts. If Senator Kerry and Senator Lieberman were percieved as credible contenders, their poll numbers would be up there with the Dean and Clark percentages. Obviously, enough Democrats are sick and tired of our party's "leaders" in Congress serving as an "Amen Corner" for His Fraudulency becuase they were afraid that Karl Rove (aka Roy Cohn Supersized) would call them unpatriotic.

Let's keep pushing for our favorite candidates but keep our eyes where they belong: giving this country a total Bushectomy (great phrase I picked up on this borad!).

[moz4prez]

118. welcome to DU

:hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi::hi:

[mot78]

120. It's absurd that my fellow Clark supporters are lynching Dean right now

He have no proof that Dean and his supporters are behind this. I honestly think it's being done by Rove and his people.

[Padraig18]

121. Thank you!

I appreciate your post. While the people involved may support Gov. Dean (although I seriously doubt it), the Dean campaign is not involved, I assure you. :hi:

[Fleshdancer]

122. over 120 posts and 2.5 hours later....where is the link to the story?

??????

[MoonAndSun]

123. I asked this same question 2 hours ago and I did not get an answer

back from the original poster. Where is the flyer and what did it say? To believe the MSGOP reporter without any backup paperwork is really sad.

[oasis]

124. It's Rushbot/freepertypes making trouble. You can see what it's doing here

on this thread. I think cooler heads will prevail.

A Clark staffer said,that since the General has taken bullets in actual warfare, this is nothing by comparison.

[meow mix]

125. i just saw it too

came home and CNN is reporting dean supporters handing out anti-clark smear flyers.
desperation is starting to take hold, HAHAHAH!! =D

GO CLARK - I FRIGGEN LOVE YOU!

[Leilani]

126. CNN Inside Politics Just Reported This

Their reporter in New Hampshire said Dean supporters were handing out flyers against Clark at one of his speeches.

This confirms what a DU'er reported earlier today, & everyone jumped all over him.

[meow mix]

127. yup its true, dean using smear tactics

just held it up in front of the camera for all to see..

[Moderator]

129. Dupe

Please continue the discussion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=75448


DU Moderator