All this talk about Hillary becoming SOS is just ridiculous and puts having 60 Senate seats at risk!

[ddeclue]

If we don't get 60 Senate seats you can kiss a liberal change agenda bye bye...the Republicans will filibuster it until the energy dies down for two years and then blame us Democrats as "do nothing" when they did the stalling.

There is a "cult of personality" that goes on over Hillary that simply isn't justified based on a rational observation of the facts.

People are claiming here that she is the BEST person in all of America to be the next Secretary of State.

That is simply ludicrous considering that there are two Former United States Presidents better qualified: Jimmy Carter and BILL Clinton as well as a VICE-President: Al Gore.

In addition there are a number of former SOS's who could easily do the job again including Madeline Albright and Colin Powell. CLEARLY a former SOS is MORE qualified than Hillary Clinton to be the NEXT SOS.

I for one am sick of the "but Hillary was in the room" argument from the Hillary worshippers. You do NOT get experience by osmosis, you get it by DOING. The "Hillary was in the room" argument is only slightly less ridiculous than the Palin worshippers claiming that SHE had foreign policy experience because she could see Russia from her front door.

We need to leave Hillary in the U.S. Senate where she can help us hold down a 60 vote margin and push through a REAL liberal agenda. THAT is where she can serve the country best as a member of a team.

The real reason that the Hillary hero worshippers want her as SOS is to give her a starring prominent place in the spot light.

That is NOT appropriate.

She LOST - Obama did NOT. She should NOT be "stealing Obama's tnunder" nor should the Hillary hero worshippers be trying to do so now.


Doug D.
Orlando, FL

Look into my eyes, what do you see?
Cult of personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
Ive been everything you want to be
Im the cult of personality
Like mussolini and kennedy
Im the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

Neon lights, a nobel prize
The mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You dont have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
Im the smiling face on your t.v.
Im the cult of personality
I exploit you still you love me

I tell you one and one makes three
Im the cult of personality
Like joseph stalin and gandi
Im the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

Neon lights a nobel prize
A leader speaks, that leader dies
You dont have to follow me
Only you can set you free

You gave me fortune
You gave me fame
You me power in your gods name
Im every person you need to be
Im the cult of personality
Look into my eyes, what do you see?
Cult of personality
I know your anger, I know your dreams
Ive been everything you want to be
Im the cult of personality
Like mussolini and kennedy
Im the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

Neon lights, a nobel prize
The mirror speaks, the reflection lies
You dont have to follow me
Only you can set me free
I sell the things you need to be
Im the smiling face on your t.v.
Im the cult of personality
I exploit you still you love me

I tell you one and one makes three
Im the cult of personality
Like joseph stalin and gandi
Im the cult of personality
Cult of personality
Cult of personality

Neon lights a nobel prize
A leader speaks, that leader dies
You dont have to follow me
Only you can set you free

You gave me fortune
You gave me fame
You me power in your gods name
Im every person you need to be
Im the cult of personality

Cult of Personality - Living Color

[villager]

1. Didn't B. Clinton pick Gore as VP -- after Gore *lost* to him in the primaries?

n/t

[w4rma]

35. Didn't Obama pick Biden as VP -- after Biden *lost* to him in the primaries?

[villager]

47. there's that, too...

Precedents aplenty, yes?

[nsd]

46. Gore ran in 1988, not in 1992. /nt

[villager]

48. I take the correction! Gore was touted to run in '92, but dropped out early...

...due to family issues...

Well, until Clinton called him...!

[karynnj]

57. No - Gore ran in 1988 not 1992

[No Elephants]

60. Self-Delete.

[sharp_stick]

2. She would be replaced by

another Democrat in NY I believe so the number of Senate seats would not change. Besides Hillary Clinton will not push a "real" liberal agenda, she and Obama are both pretty middle of the road. This myth of needing 60 Dem seats to avoid fillibusters when at least 10 or 11 of them are controlled by real Blue Dogs that need to remain Blue Dogs to get reelected is simply getting old.

[ddeclue]

6. Not a myth - we need all the Dems we can get.

This is REALLY about stealing Obama's thunder and trying to make Hillary a "shadow President".

Get over it she lost.

Doug D.

[sharp_stick]

11. Please read before replying to a post, it's only polite.

I will reiterate for you so you don't have to re-read my original reply... Hillary Clinton would be replaced by _another_ Democratic Senator.

What exactly is the point of this line of argument anyway? I can't figure out if you want Hillary Clinton to remain in the Senate to promote a "liberal agenda" that she will not promote based on her history in the Senate. Or if you just don't like her and don't want to see her in the Sec. of State position or if you're just a general shit stirrer?

I'm kind of leaning to the last.

[ddeclue]

14. I'm NOT a Hillary fan and I get tired of the irrational exuberance

of Hillary groupies.

If Hillary could be replaced by another Dem that would help but it only confuses things to put her in the administration. There needs to be a unified chain of command starting with Obama - not confusion over who is in charge when Hillary sets herself up as a shadow President and goes rogue on Obama.

Doug D.

[sharp_stick]

20. No Shit Sherlock

and who you calling a Hillary groupie?

Jesus dude, when people post this kind of tripe and start using the word irrational I begin to get worried.

Shadow President?... Man you need to check the med levels, switch to heavy duty and double up the layers, those waves are getting through.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[yardwork]

23. You're NOT a Hilary fan? ???

[rvablue]

40. You need to settle down there...."sets her self up as a shadow President and goes rogue"

I have no doubt you are true blue DUer, dedicated to the progressive cause.

I AM NOT CALLING YOU A TROLL.

With that out of the way, your rhetoric is verging on freeper paranoia. What do you think she's going to do? Go off and do secret deals with the Colombians or something. Obama would have to literally sign anything she worked on it order for it to have any credence.

Hillary Clinton is going to carry out the policy of the Obama administration. Do you really think he would choose her otherwise.

And, BTW, wouldn't it be a lot easier to "go rogue" in the Senate????????

[librechik]

44. no doubt--theres' a Dem in the governor's chair for half a mo

so there is a window.

It's an intriguing idea, bold--though Richardson would be more prudent.

[grannylib]

3. In New York, would Gov. Patterson appoint a replacement? If so,

then I think the Senate seat would be safely in Democratic hands...and probably would be anyway, even with an election...
I was hoping she'd be HHS Secretary...

[cali]

13. so much bullshit packed into one OP.

why even bother trying to debunk such an obvious pile of shit?

[ddeclue]

16. You know better than that...

You can't admit that I can EASILY name 5 BETTER QUALIFIED candidates without really even trying.

[lamp_shade]

4. She is. Next to Joe Biden, she's the "best person in America" to be SOS.

[ddeclue]

7. No she's NOT...she doesn't even speak any foreign languages of which I'm aware.

She's not even the best in the Senate. Kerry (who is fluent in French by the way and has actually lived overseas for an extended period of his life) and Chris Dodd (fluent in Spanish and a former Peace Corps member) are BOTH better.

Hillary was just in the room - that's all. That doesn't make her any more qualified than the news reporters covering the event in that room or the viewers watching it on C-SPAN.

In no way is her "experience" comparable to that of a former President or Vice President or former SOS.

Doug D.

[chimpymustgo]

45. Dude. Obama invited HER to talk about it. Get over yourself.

[LSparkle]

5. Putting her in at State could lead to an "alternate power center" in D.C.

Obama is admittedly a newcomer to Washington, and to have
a woman who very clearly wants to be president herself in
such a powerful position (with her ex-president husband
at her side) is just BEGGING for a "shadow government" to
emerge behind the Clintons. Would a Secretary Clinton
really be able to put her own (and her husband's) feelings
about foreign policy aside and become a messenger of the
Obama (and Biden) foreign policy? I really don't think
so ...

Also, her expertise in healthcare reform would be sorely
wasted if she got the SOS slot. We need her expertise and
passion on the healthcare issue -- either in another Cabinet
slot or in the Senate, where she would be an invaluable
liaison for the new administration (and a top candidate for
Majority Leader in the not-so-distant future).

I really think putting her at State wastes her talents and
threatens Obama being seen as a strong head of government.

ALSO -- I'm sorry but Obama really does "owe" John Kerry
the SOS position if he wants it. He's got diplomacy in his
blood (having grown up with a father in the foreign service),
and had it not been for Kerry selecting Obama for the 2004
keynote, we might not have President-Elect Obama. To snub
him in favor of Clinton would be heartbreaking (if Kerry
really wants that job), especially after he stuck his neck
out for Obama early on, when Hillary was the frontrunner,
thus signing his own political "death warrant" if Clinton
had prevailed. He deserves this.

[RollWithIt]

8. Huh? Obama met with her, invited her... little confused....

Primaries are over Doug. Get over it.

[ddeclue]

10. Exactly the Primaries are OVER. Hillary LOST - get over it.

This is an attempt to steal Obama's thunder and create a shadow Presidency in Hillary Clinton. It is NOT appropriate. When you lose you should do so gracefully and stop hanging on forever and pretending that you didn't.

Doug D.

[RollWithIt]

27. Ummm, Obama WANTS her as SoS....

Or else he wouldn't have met with her to discuss it. Gees.

[Beausoir]

31. What a warped view of the situation.

Seek help.

[OKNancy]

9. A Democrat will replace her, so that argument is void

I think Obama knows what he is doing.
I believe he probably knows what his best for his administration.

[ddeclue]

12. I don't. It would be a bad mistake to pick her if he did.

[yardwork]

18. If you don't think that Obama knows what's he's doing, you probably won't be happy here much longer.

[yardwork]

15. Wow. I think your premise is incorrect (NY would replace her with another D senator)

and I think your attacks on a fellow Democrat and her supporters are really over the top.

If Obama chooses Hilary Clinton to be secretary of state than it will be because she is the best person for the job in his judgment. Obama's political judgment has been pretty good up to now. I trust him.

As a highly educated attorney, former two-term first lady, and a U.S. senator, Hilary Clinton is very well-qualified to be SoS. I don't think it matters how many languages she speaks. They use translators at the U.N. because nobody speaks all the world's languages.

And if we were choosing a person on the basis of second languages alone, French would not be particularly helpful. English, Spanish, and Mandarin are now the world's most useful languages for commerce.

edit - spelling

[ddeclue]

19. Well which DOES she speak?

What EXACTLY qualifies Hillary to be SOS besides the argument that "she was in the room" which is EXACTLY what being First Lady means. She was NOT a "two term" First Lady either - that is terribly misleading for it implies that she was "elected" to the job of First Lady - NO SHE got the job by marriage NOT election.

She is a TWO TERM U.S. Senator.

She is not "unqualified" but the ridiculously over optimistic claims of her "qualifications" are easily debunked by comparing her to MORE qualified people like BILL Clinton, Al Gore, Jimmy Carter, Madeline Albright, Colin Powell and Bill Richardson for that matter.

Finally does she speak ANY foreign languages? I think it really ought to be a job qualification for the Secretary of State to have actually spent some serious time in one or more foreign countries (years, not days) and be able to see things from a foreign perspective if he or she is to advise the President in these matters.

Doug D.

[yardwork]

22. I disagree with every opinion you've expressed in this thread.

I doubt that we can find common ground on this topic. Best to move on like two ships passing in the night.

[dem629]

17. Wouldn't Gov. Paterson make a good Senator? Hmmm.

[rvablue]

41. Don't know if you saw DKos today, but he wrote a diary re: his reelection today

Frankly, I thought it was kind of weird.

Like, maybe, he was a little nervous about a possible Hillary run.

Doesn't seem to be the case now.

[Cosmic Charlie]

21. Don't worry, Obama is no fool.

[bunnies]

24. STOP IT!!!!

I'm so fucking sick of bullshit like this. Obama supporters were NOT cultists during the primaries and Hillary supporters are NOT cultists now.

Its completely fucked up that you're attacking fellow Democrats, fellow DUers, by insulting them like this at this stage of the game.

And why the hell you felt the need to start a whole thread for the same drivel you spewed in another thread is beyond me. Stop attacking Hillary supporters! ENOUGH!

:nuke:

[rvablue]

42. Thank you, bunnies...being called "groupies" upthread was the height of insult

seeing how 99.9% of us Hillary primary supporters are completely over the moon happy about the election of President Elect Obama. It does hurt the feelings a bit........

[Kingofalldems]

25. It's a trap!!!

[Tarc]

26. Jesus, enough with the fucking hysterics, you look ridiculous

Especially with the grade school "OMG these lyrics just, like, so complete me!" gibberish. :puke:

Whichever way New York fills its vacancies...special election or governor's appointment...the seat is not falling into Republican hands. As for the filibuster-proof majority, we don't have it and likely will not get it before 2010. But there are enough sane Republicans (Collins, Snowe, Voinovich) that will need little coddling to cross over.

Settle down.

[RagAss]

39. HAHHAHAHHAHA ! Yup

[Arkansas Granny]

28. Why not save your rant until you can base it on more than speculation and rumors?

[BREMPRO]

29. i agree. just look at all the drama around just the trial balloon! better candidates are available

[ElsewheresDaughter]

30. I have never said this to any DUer but,...you really need to STFU!

[JuniperLea]

32. Your concern is duly noted...

:eyes:

[DU GrovelBot]

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[JVS]

34. Ambassador to Serbia!

[Bjorn Against]

36. Colin Powell is qualified? Are you serious?

If you are serious then may I remind the last time Powell was Secretary of State he sat in front of the United Nations and lied through his teeth. I would think it is important that the Secretary of State has some credibility with the rest of the world and Powell has zero credibility.

I don't think Hillary would be the best choice either, but she would at least be better than Powell. Either Kerry or Richardson would be much better choices than Hillary in my opinion, but lets be honest and admit that Obama pretty much has to appoint Hillary to any position she wants. It was a bitter primary, but Hillary did a lot to heal the party afterwards and for Obama to not give her something big in return would be a slap in the face. I think there are better positions for her than SOS, but if she does get SOS I will give her a chance.

[sufrommich]

37. I think some DUers don't know what to do with themselves

since the election is over and have decided to re-fight the primary wars. Did someone force Obama to pick Hillary?Does he know that this is just a naked attempt to "steal his thunder"?Does he even realize what danger he's in? Stay tuned ,folks.

[Life Long Dem]

38. Anybody notice how this is based on an old argument?

This was before we all found out that it was the PUMA team and not Hillary causing the division.

[BootinUp]

43. you rarely cease to amaze, lol.

does "this talk" include Obama's talk and his senior advisors talk?

[TexasObserver]

49. BOGUS! And illogical.

New York governor is Democratic. So is the state. We won't lose that seat.

Your OP is flamebait.

[sandyd921]

50. Huh? Isn't NY a Democratic state?

In fact it's one of the bluest states. Depending on how things work in NY state either the governor (Patterson is a Democrat) will appoint a Democrat to the rest of her term or a special election will be called with a high likelihood of electing another Democrat.

You don't want Hillary? Try again!

[Metric System]

51. Thank you for the insults. I haven't seen Hillary supporters here advocating for her to be SOS. We

have been defending her against vicious attacks like yours, however. It's up to President-elect Obama to pick who he wants to be SOS. I trust his judgment (regardless of whether Hillary is named SOS). Do you?

[Robeson]

52. Threads like this is why I love GDP!!...

...:popcorn:

[CK_John]

53. Maybe the Big Dog will replace her. n/t

[krkaufman]

54. Faulty argument, since NY governor is a Democrat.

Anything else?

[MarthaMyDear]

55. Did you have to post the WHOLE SONG? Good lord..

..great song, but in your context it's OVERKILL!

You've got your tights in an uproar about something that, at this point, is an interview to find if someone has an interest in an Adminstration position.

Calm down...

Umm...guess you REALLY hate HRC, like attention (like Ashley T.), or have no real interest in the Democratic process at all!

[Catherine Vincent]

56. ....

[RollWithIt]

58. You posted some REALLY GOOD threads on the Florida voting results....

Kind of sad to see this kind of crap. It's without rational argument and outside reality on the ground. Heck, most everyone knows that New York has a Democratic Governor, and would NEVER elect a Republican Senator.

[Beacool]

59. Hillary worshipers???? Coming from an Obama overzealous supporter?????

:rofl:

:rofl:

:rofl:

Thanks, I needed a laugh...........

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

61. My VERY DEMOCRATIC Governor will select her replacement. Cool it.

[olegramps]

62. Well I will put in my two-cents worth:

I believe that she would be more effective in the Senate. She represents a powerful state and to all accords has done it well. She would be a powerful voice in congress for Obama's policies.

I would be for Bill Richardson being Secretary of State. He has valuable experience and could do much in regaining the cooperation of Mexico and South American countries that the Bush administration has alienated. I am not saying that Hilary Clinton would not be a fine Secretary of State. She certainly would bring far more to the position then the disasterous Bush administration whose only achievement has been to alienate all of our former allies and create enemies.