Email conversation with my Repub. friend about the election of Obama

[jenmito]

I can't believe this, but it's probably why we don't really talk much anymore. It took place right after Obama won. She knew how happy I was about it:

Me: Check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkXhMKl10M4 ("It's a New Day" video)

My Repub. friend:
It IS a new day - one in which I can happily say that widespread, institutional racism in America is over. For that, I'm happy.

Me: I hope you're just being funny about racism being over.

Her: No, I wasn't being funny. I'm sure there are many racist individuals out there, but as I said... widespread, institutional racism is over.

Me: How can you think "widespread, institutionalized racism" is over just because one Black guy got elected president? How many people who were racists and ran their businesses/companies/etc. in racist ways will stop because Obama is president? None. Their feelings and practices aren't going to change.

Her: How many black guys need to be elected president for you to think that the majority of people are not racist? What's the quota on that?

Me: Like I asked/said, how many people who were racists and ran their businesses/companies/etc. in racist ways will stop because Obama is president? None. Their feelings and practices aren't going to change. My point is that just because the majority of voting people elected Obama, that does NOT change the attitudes and practices of racist people. Do you think Black people will no longer be stopped by cops for "driving while black"? Do you think Black people will no longer be denied housing or jobs because we have a Black president? You ask how many black guys need to be elected president for me to think that the majority of people are not racist. My answer is that it has to be more than this one. When the day comes that being black is NOT the exception, when it's NOT something to celebrate, when there's nothing special about it, MAYBE we can start talking about racism no longer being a major factor in life. Right now is a great time for the country. But it in no way means an end to widespread, institutional racism. I'd say once the older generation is gone and those who are now aged about 18-35 become the oldest people, THEN racism may be much less of a factor.

Her: No response yet


Does anyone here think she's right/I'm wrong?

[gcomeau]

1. You appear to be defining your terms differently.

She is apparently defining "widespread, institutional" as "the majority of the nation" while you are not. You will keep talking past each other until you agree on common definitions.

Unless you actually are arguing that the majority of the nation is still racist. As in, 150+ million of them... in which case I'm going to end up siding with your friend and saying you're wrong. (Not that Obama being elected just suddenly made that happen or anything, his election was more of a great big indicator...)

[Sebass1271]

3. great response. I thought the same way.

His election might not indicate that this will no longer be a racist nation, however, it does indicate that we are moving forward. I side with your friend on this one.

[jenmito]

7. "Moving forward" and "the end of widespread, institutional racism" are two different things

in my opinion. It IS becoming a LESS racist nation, but it's not over, THAT'S for sure.

[jenmito]

5. I see your point...

but by her repeated term of "widespread, institutional racism" I took it to mean racism in all facets of life, not just the majority of people in the country (since about 66 million people voted for Obama-not over 150 million).

[gcomeau]

9. Ok, but...

...rather than "taking it to mean" something that she may not actually mean (I didn't read it that way for example) it's probably easier just to spell it out and confirm if she really does mean that or not. Otherwise you both might spend the next dozen messages arguing with points neither of you was actually trying to make.

As for how many voted... if we can poll 1200 people and use them as a relatively accurate representative sample of an electorate of ~130 million voters I think we're on decently solid statistical ground extrapolating the results of the votes of 130 million people to the rest of the national population with an acceptably small margin of error involved. And that's before taking into account that I think we all know that not everyone who voted against Obama did it because of racism. There are, difficult as it is to believe, a lot of people out there who actually believe this conservative policy stuff and voted on that basis.

[jenmito]

13. Well...

That's why I asked her the questions I asked her. Her answers will let me know where she's coming from.

[musette_sf]

2. she's buildling the frame

to put forth the RW theory that affirmative action is no longer necessary. notice she used the same phrase "widespread, institutional racism is over" in two of her messages. prolly cut-n-pasted from whatever source she gets her talking points and marching orders from.

[jenmito]

6. YES-I saw a similar argument at freeperville...

that's why I think I'm right and she's wrong. :)

[AspenRose]

4. I would send her press clippings of all the hate crimes that have occurred

since Obama's been elected (cross burnings, threats, etc.)

[jenmito]

8. She MUST know that's going on, but I guess that will be my next step

depending on her response.

[scheming daemons]

11. Her friend would argue that those aren't examples of "institutional" racism....

That's racism by individuals... not by institutions.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. There were a couple particularly heinous black on white hate crimes where I used to live.

That was just last year.

David

[elkston]

10. This was an excellent response, jenmito.

Especially this part:
"
When the day comes that being black is NOT the exception, when it's NOT something to celebrate, when there's nothing special about it, MAYBE we can start talking about racism no longer being a major factor in life.
"

[jenmito]

14. Thanks, elkston.

I hope she understands it.

[1Hippiechick]

12. I disagree with the cut-off age for the older generation to die off. We in our 60s who LIVED the 60s

should not be counted in with the generation who are still predominantly racist, IMO.
I have said repeatedly to my husband that his parents' generation is the one that needs to "die off".
We are the parents of two sons ages 33 & 36, so if you include the generation of 18-35, allow for us, their parents who rebelled against racism, hypocrisy, the VietNam war, voting rights, human rights, etc. We were the ones to stand up and question authority, and I am DAMN proud of it. And, we raised our children liberally. So those 36 year olds who were raised liberally could also be the very young parents of 18 year old kids, too. :)

Just my opinion. And who am I? Just an ol' hippiechick. :)

[Lerrad]

15. She is wrong, but there is more to you argument.

Actually racism could increase or escalate, because a black man is now president. There is a small town in Ohio that has publicly recruited members to the KKK, and some of them have been making racist threats. All of this happened a month or so before the election, and their numbers are growing.

Those that are angered about having a black man as president could actually increase racism, and bring it out in the open in a negative way, now that Obama will be president. There may not be any more or less racist people, but the whole thing could blow up in time.

Another thing to add, is that almost half of the votes were for McCain, so how many of this 47% are racists, and are still racists? I would say all of this 47% that were racist before the election are still racists.

[jenmito]

16. That's true...

and I will give her specific examples if and when she replies to me, depending on what she says. :hi:

[cooolandrew]

17. I would say given the latest polling report stats you are right. Times are a changing.>

The stats would suggest only a few former Democrats and fundies are against Barack at this present time a very positive sign.

[AtomicKitten]

19. I believe the ugly veil is about to be lifted. We have some reckoning coming on Katrina.

You are so right, and I think it's going to be dragged out into the light of day. So many people are invisible in our society. It's frightening especially knowing they are still suffering. We have a lot of work to do as a society.

Happy T-giving!!!