What do the Clintons have on Obama?

[Beacool]

What the hell is the matter with Paglia??? She's as bad as MoDo!!!!

Hillary = Bad
Palin = Good

Dec. 10, 2008

----------

As for Obama's appointment of Hillary Clinton as secretary of state, what sense does that make except within parochial Democratic politics? Awarding such a prize plum to Hillary may be a sop to her aggrieved fan base, but what exactly are her credentials for that position? Aside from being a mediocre senator (who, contrary to press reports, did very little for upstate New York), Hillary has a poor track record as both a negotiator and a manager. And of course both Clintons constantly view the world through the milky lens of their own self-interest. Well, it's time for Hillary to put up or shut up. If she gets as little traction in world affairs as Condoleezza Rice has, Hillary will be flushed down the rabbit hole with her feckless husband and effectively neutralized as a future presidential contender. If that's Obama's clever plan, is it worth the gamble? The secretary of state should be a more reserved, unflappable character -- not a drama queen who, even in her acceptance speech, morphed into three different personalities in the space of five minutes.

Given Obama's elaborate deference to the Clintons, beginning with his over-accommodation of them at the Democratic convention in August, a nagging question has floated around the Web: What do the Clintons have on him? No one doubts that the Clinton opposition research team was turning over every rock in its mission to propel Hillary into the White House. There's an information vacuum here that conspiracy theorists have been rushing to fill.

----------

Meanwhile, Sarah Palin's rehabilitation has been well launched. Step by step over the past five weeks since the election, headlines about Palin in the mainstream media and some Web news sites have become more neutral and even laudatory, signifying that a shift toward reality is already at hand. My confidence about Palin's political future continues, as does my disgust at the provincial snobbery and amoral trashing of her reputation by the media and liberal elite, along with some conservative insiders.

Once the Republican ticket was defeated, the time had passed for ad feminam attacks on Palin. Hence my surprise and dismay at Dick Cavett's Nov. 14 blog in the New York Times, "The Wild Wordsmith of Wasilla," which made a big splash and topped the paper's most-read list for nearly a week. I have enormous respect for Cavett: His TV interviews with major celebrities, which are now available on DVD, set a high-water mark for sheer intelligence in that medium that will surely never be surpassed.

However, Cavett's piece on Sarah Palin was insufferably supercilious. With dripping disdain, he sniffed at her "frayed syntax, bungled grammar and run-on sentences." He called her "the serial syntax-killer from Wasilla High," "one who seems to have no first language." I will pass over Cavett's sniggering dismissal of "soccer moms" as lightweights who should stay far, far away from government.

I was so outraged when I read Cavett's column that I felt like taking to the air like a Valkyrie and dropping on him at his ocean retreat in Montauk in the chichi Hamptons. How can it be that so many highly educated Americans have so little historical and cultural consciousness that they identify their own native patois as an eternal mark of intelligence, talent and political aptitude?

http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/12/10/hillary_mumbai/index.html

:mad:

[babylonsister]

1. Ahhh, I remember the good ole days, when I posted a Paglia

article and got reamed from here to eternity.

Just maybe she's never met a person like Obama, someone who doesn't hold grudges, and tries to work for the greater good.

Unless the Clintons have something on him. :hide:


I kid!

[Beacool]

She's as obsessed with the Clintons as MoDo and Morris.

It's offensive to the Clintons and to Obama. What kind of so called liberal trashes the Clintons but praises Palin????

x(

[LisaM]

2. It's Camille Paglia. What do you expect?

She doesn't really dissect. She likes or dislikes, and once she's posited a theory, she writes to the theory. Coincidentally, I am reading her book on poetry and we were just talking about her on the way to work. Clearly, she is out to provoke, but she is also narrow, judgemental, and angry about something. She is also someone really swept up in the feminist backlash (which IMO is overdone and far more sustained than it should have been). Molly Ivins dismissed her as being a sloppy scholar, too.

[Beacool]

8. I don't get these older feminists.

They still can't seem to forgive that Hillary didn't dump Bill. To me part of being a feminist is to allow women to have options. If someone wants to stay home that's fine, raising children is one of the most important things an individual (male or female) can do in this world. If some woman wants to forgive a cheating husband, that's fine too since it's their choice. I may not like it, but it's not my life. I would only intervene if someone is harming themselves or are putting their lives in danger by staying with an abusive man.

The loathing that some of these feminists feel for Hillary seem to stem from the fact that she doesn't conform to their ideal of what a feminist should be like. They seem to forget that Hillary is a woman of flesh and blood and not some icon in the church of feminism. She's entitled to make the choices that are best for her and also to make mistakes, just like the rest of us.

:(

[tigereye]

12. I don't know that most feminists do - Paglia's argument is anti-feminist

not sure Paglia really qualifies as one anyway!


Most of the loathing for HIllary seems like sour grapes, to me. :shrug:

[Beacool]

18. Well yes, I don't mean all the older feminists.

But Paglia won't forgive Bill for not resigning after the Monica incident and Hillary for not dumping him. I was angry at Bill just like most people, but how Hillary handles her marriage is none of my business. When the Edwards infidelity was made public I never once suggested that Elizabeth should leave him. These women are extremely bright, they'll handle it whichever way is best for them and their families.

[McCamy Taylor]

26. Real feminists are not scared of sex or the Clenis. Paglia is a professional "woman".

Being a professional "woman" is a sort of pathetic thing to be IMO. It is NOT the same as being a feminist. A professional "woman" makes a religion out of being an incomplete human being.

Must suck being her.

[Beacool]

30. I never thought of it that way, but you have a point.

Paglia's views feed into the stereotype of the "feminazi" women (as Limbaugh puts it), who is not feminine nor likes men. That notion couldn't be farther from the truth. Most feminists I know are quite comfortable with their femininity and, those who are straight, have a healthy sexual interest in men. Myself included.

:evilgrin:

[tigereye]

36. not sure what you mean...

[polmaven]

13. I could not agree more

with your definition of feminism....It means thinking for yourself - making your own decisions based on your own experiences and feelings. It means not having to do what someone else thinks is best for you, but doing what YOU think is best for you.

I am a feminist in my late 50s. I have my own brain and my own thoughts.

[Beacool]

19. Exactly,

I'm far younger than Camille and wasn't in the trenches in the 60s and 70s, but I thought that what they were fighting for was for women to have the same opportunities that men did. And that includes being free to decide one's destiny.

:shrug:

[Scout]

27. you don't get it because Camille is not really a feminist n/t

[tigereye]

37. yeah that's what I was thinking - she's more like Ayn Rand

[makinguphumans]

41. But there are many labels for feminists. Both Right and Left and in-between.

[karynnj]

33. Here is one alternative explanation

It might be that in retrospect many feminists are embarrassed that they gave Bill Clinton passes on actions they had condemned for years. They were the ones who fought for laws on workplace harassment - and led sessions in large companies on appropriate behavior. Had Bill been a Republican - or even a less charming Democrat, they would have spoken against him.

Part of the anger you see as directed as HRC might be anger at themselves for not being consistent and at Bill Clinton - with HRC as the victim, though it wasn't her fault. (This is in some ways no different than Gore suffering because other people voted against him due to Clinton's behavior.)

Personally, I do not consider HRC a feminist icon. I do not judge her actions different than I would a man's.

[Beacool]

38. Yes, there were a lot of mixed feelings in the women's movement

as to how to handle Bill's actions. Most were disgusted and angered by his actions, but were not going to allow the Republicans to throw the guy out on a rail after a witch hunt that lasted 5 years, cost millions of dollars and resulted in the impeachment of a president over lying about a BJ.

So, I think their anger at the RW superseded their anger at Bill. At least, that's my take on it.

To me Bill was/is (is it akin to being an alcoholic?) a sexual addict who needed treatment. I have no doubt that he loves Hillary (anyone who's seen them together in a quiet moment can attest to the connection between them). I think that Bill has a self destructive bent to him. I don't know exactly why, I'm not a psychologist, but he ends up hurting himself more than anyone else. I also think that Hillary's love for him surpasses the pain that he has brought to her over the years. People who think that she only stays with him for political reasons don't know her at all. Her eyes shine when she talks about him and he's been really trying to make up for his sins. He sometimes screws up (like he did during the primaries), but hear him talk about her and his chest inflates with pride. They both get a lot of flack around here and on the other LW blogs, but they are both basically good people who have tried for decades to make their country and the world a better place.

I digressed, but it pains me to see how harsh people are about them.

:(

[LostinVA]

34. She isn't a feminist -- you must always remember that

She is no more an advocate for women than Malkin is for minorities.

[Beacool]

39. Good analogy!!

:7

[ZombieHorde]

40. If my wife cheated on me, I would try to forgive her.

Great post.

[Beacool]

43. Thanks

That's good of you. Frankly, I don't know how I would feel if I find out that my guy cheated on me. I can imagine feeling betrayed and hurt. Could I forgive him? I really don't know.

:-(

[Phredicles]

42. Molly Ivins also called her an asshole;

and, as was so often the case, she was spot on. She was one of the greats. Paglia is not.

[SwampG8r]

3. man thats some shit there

and frankly its written with the most inflamatory wording i could imagine
if you or i wrote the hillary part and posted it here with that wording it would start the Hiroshima of flamefests

as for the palin crap let them dream about sweet sarah she is nothingness personified

[Beacool]

9. Hi, fellow Gator!!!

Paglia has sounded very bitter to me for quite some time. She may make some valid points, but the venom that drips from her writing detracts from the main point of her pieces.

;(

[NYC_SKP]

4. All I can make of this is that shit-stirring sells.

Even for Camile Paglia, who I suppose has to make a living....

Sad, sad, sad.

[Beacool]

11. Hi, Pooch!!!

How's your furry friend?

Paglia loves to throw mud and see what sticks. I'm comforted to see that the majority of the posters over at Salon are letting her have it.

On another subject, I'll be in Manhattan on Monday for Hillary and Bill's event. It's on 34th St. at Manhattan Center Studios. I'll wave at you from there.

:hi:

[Metric System]

5. Ugh, Camille Paglia. What a hack. I love how she always claims she's a liberal but praises Rethugs

and bashes Dems. Her greatest claim to fame is her Madonna obsession. Her writings on Madonna have turned sour ever since Madonna rebuffed her. Just look at this sentence from a previous article where she manages to take shots at both Obama AND Madonna:

"Obama's folksy come-on is as bad as Madonna's faux British -- and both are in desperate need of fresh inspiration."

Now who else would think to discuss Madonna while writing about Obama? Only the obsessed Paglia.

[Beacool]

14. I don't know what happened to her.

Her writing was far more palatable some years ago. She has become so bitter and brittle.

:(

[Shiver]

6. She's a whackjob.

That's basically all you have to keep in mind when reading her drivel.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

7. Paglia has always sucked.

Her half-baked faux-feminist pseudo-intellectual pedantic rape apologism never fooled me for a second. I remember when she first came on the scene in the early 90s that a lot of my guy friends loved her. And why not? She told them everything they wanted to hear.

[Beacool]

16. You're right, I had forgotten about her views on rape.

Should have remembered that she was a douche-bag from way back then.

"The sexes are at war...Men become masculine only when other men say they are. Having sex with a woman is one way a boy becomes a man...For a decade, feminists have drilled their disciples to say, "Rape is a crime of violence but not of sex." This sugar-coated Shirley Temple nonsense has exposed young women to disaster. Misled by feminism, they do not expect rape from the nice boys from good homes who sit next to them in class.

- Camille Paglia, "Rape and Modern Sex War"

[Captain Hilts]

25. I'd repressed that shit. Ugh! nt

[tigereye]

10. ah, she's full of crap, as usual

[patrice]

15. If CP does not want these issues to be about Sexism, she should refrain from Sexism and Misanthropy.

CP could be mistaking co-relation for causation: If criticism of SP corelates with Sexism, it is true that SOME of the criticism could be caused by Sexism, but not necessarily ALL of it. Some of the criticism, and possibly this DOES include Cavvett's piece, MAY be due to the fact that SP's Language Arts skills ARE insufficient to the task and, unless we think that we, as a nation, can function as a "Tower of 'Babble'", respect for some kind of basic agreed upon logic/syntax and Grammar is a USEFUL and GOOD thing for this country and descending to the lowest common denominator WILL HARM Us.

CP needs to proove that DC's criticism of SP is CAUSED by Sexism, not just corelated with it.

OTH, DC is a Male so his criticism of SP MUST be Sexist. :sarcasm:

[Beacool]

21. I agree.

I defended Palin against purely sexist attacks. As a feminist, I stand up for all women who are being bashed in a purely misogynist manner, whether I agree with their politics or not. How would we be better than the right if we only defend the women with whom we share similar political views? I was appalled at what the media did to Hillary and was equally upset at what they did to Palin. But, and that's a big but, there were many criticisms of Palin that were more than justified. By the same token, not all attacks on Hillary were sexist and not all attacks on Obama were racist.

;)

[patrice]

44. That's why it's best to have an exact transcript of what they say.

And what they say has to be taken within the whole context of what they do.

Both standards that I don't fully observe myself, but on the other hand, I don't make many summary judgements of others.

[Beacool]

45. You are absolutely right.

It's always best to read the whole transcript before emitting an opinion.

;-)

[rvablue]

17. Paglia=attention whore. n/t

[DevonRex]

20. Wow. Thanks Bea. I had never heard of her before and now I know to

stay away. She sounds like a real nutcase. Even worse than MoDo.

MoDo was somebody I always read even though I hated her attacks on the Clintons. I pretty much found that if I ignored her it was to my own peril, because other outlets would repeat her BS.

This Paglia seems to be an untalented hack that I can ignore with no consequences.

[Beacool]

22. Hi, Jennifer!!

Paglia has been around a long time. If you have time, check out some of her works at the library and come to your own conclusions.

To me, she's a disappointment. To continually trash a more capable woman (Hillary) and to praise the less competent one (Palin) is disheartening coming from a so called feminist.

And yes, others DO repeat her BS. Rush Limbaugh just brought up her article a few minutes ago and is asking what do the Clintons have on Obama. He has over 20M listeners.

Thanks, Camille!!!!!

:grr:

[DevonRex]

23. Hmm. Is she worth an email campaign? I've been in the dark until

now. I'll do as you ask and read some of her stuff. Then perhaps I'll send off some email.

There is no way a feminist could admire Palin more than Hillary. That's just stupid.

I swear, some people still act as if the Clintons are some sort of Mafia family that controls the entire universe.

[Beacool]

31. You can try, what you might be wasting your time.

The woman thrives on that kind of thing.

:crazy:

[Captain Hilts]

24. She's amazing. And not in a good way. nt

[Arkansas Granny]

28. Something I don't understand is why anyone considers that Obama's

appointment of Hillary was to throw a "sop to her aggrieved fan base". I think it's pretty evident that virtually all of her "aggrieved fan base" had already voted for PE Obama and would have continued to support him whether he had given Hillary an appointment or not.

[Captain Hilts]

29. That's exactly right. nt

[Alter Ego]

32. Clearly Hillary has a photo of Obama groping a cardboard cutout.

[Beacool]

35. Was he at Favreau's party too?

Hmmmm, we are going to have to keep an eye on these two.

:evilgrin: