The Birth Certificate/Citizenship Fantango - where the wingnuts stand

[PatGund]

Since tomorrow the Supreme Court looks at Wrotnowski v. Bysiewicz in conference, I figured I'd show you all just who, what, and where is currently wasting time with this crap in the courts.

There are two major subcategories of lawsuits:

"Berg-type", with claims of Kenyan birth, claims both him and his mother lost US citizenship when she married Lolo Soetoro, claims of forged birth certificates, conspiracy nut central.
"Donofrio-type", which ignores all that on the claim that a "Natural-born" citizen means both parents have to be US citizen and the person cannot have a 2nd nationality at birth.

Active cases are as follows:

Supreme Court

The big two right now are:

Berg v. Obama - Philip J. Berg's appeal of his district court rejection, and the granddaddy of many of these lawsuits

Docket - http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08-570.htm

Wrotnowski v. Bysiewicz - A "Donofrio" type, in conference for 12 Dec.

http://origin.www.supremecourtus.gov/docket/08a469.htm

In addition, there are three more in SCOTUS

Christopher Strunk (New York, no docket number, Strunk has a past history of paranoia lawsuits though)
Hunter v. Obama (Texas, no docket number. Fringe Democratic candidate, claims both Obama and McCain are unable to be president)
Lightfoot v. Bowen (California, no docket number known at this time. Filed by Dr. Orly Taitz, who is also involved in Alan Keyes lawsuit. Gail Lightfoot was Ron Paul's running mate on the California write in ticket, the rest are Ron Paul and Constitution party electors.)

States

California:

Keyes v. Bowen - Alan Keyes and his running mate, lawyers for this are Dr. Orly Taitz and the aptly named Gary Kreep. Berg-type lawsuit.
Corbett v. Bowen - Unknown what type of case.

Georgia:
Terry v. Handel - Berg clone

Hawaii:
Martin v. Lingle - anti-semite Andy Martin, rejected once, on appeal currently. Martin claims the birth certificate shows Frank Marshall Smith to be Obama's father. DOES NOT LIKE BERG

Kentucky:
Essek v. Obama - Truck driver, filing asking court to wave filing fees due to the poverty cited by Essek. Possible Berg-clone

http://www.kentucky.com/181/story/611448.html

North Carolina:

Sullivan v. Marshall - Unconfirmed report of denial by courts. Lt. Col. Donald Sullivan (USAF(R)) has a past history of driving unlicenced cars and without a licence, due to belief that such things are unconstitutional.

Pennsylvania:
Schneller v. Cortes - Possible Berg clone

Texas:
Brockhausen v. Andrade - Berg clone

Washington State:

Broe v. Reed - Hearing set for January 8, 2009. Berg Clone.

Also, Berg has another lawsuit now under seal. Records found before it went under seal show it as a "whistle-blower" federal suit demanding Obama return his Senatorial salary due to his being an "Illegal Alien" and therefore unable to be Senator.

Uncomfirmed reports

Virginia, Illinois, Ohio, California, North Carolina, District of Columbia, Massachusetts, Maryland, Virgin Islands

Denied

(New Jersey) Donofrio v Wells - was the first case denied by the Supreme Court.
"Patriot Brigade Case"
(California) David Archbold
(Virginia) Wild Bill - no evidence said case actually existed.
(New York) Dan Smith
(Washington) Steve Marquis
(Ohio) David Neal, Carol Greenberg

Those are the current cast of characters in this little Freeper and PUMA psychodrama. Most of the lawsuits are clones of Berg's lawsuit.

[rasputin1952]

1. Money squandered, this will go nowhere...

these luantics refuse to admit that Obama won, nutcases all.

[Ian David]

2. Ron Paul is actually a Pigeonoid from Planet Xenu. n/t

[Rhiannon12866]

12. And Romney is a droid...

:rofl:

[old mark]

55. I thought I knew him from somewhere.....nt

[bluestateguy]

3. Have these people been declared vexatious litigators yet?

And if so, isn't there some rule that effectively bans them from filing any lawsuits at all?

Nutjobs should not have access to our court system.

[PatGund]

4. Andy Martin has...

In Connecticut and New York.

Berg has been sanctioned and fined before for misbehaviour as well.

[jberryhill]

5. Is there a PACER entry for the Berg sanction?

I'd like to read that one.

[PatGund]

7. I don't know...

The case was Holsworth v. Berg

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1122023117263

[Starry Messenger]

6. Thank you for the update.

I wonder if this is going to die out at some point or if we are witnessing the birth of a new long-lasting crank movement? In my mind, I've been equating it with the "controversy" that goes on about Francis Bacon/Shakespeare. It will be interesting to track. I'm really glad you and others started to document it at its beginnings.

They will all fail of course. But this just spurs on a certain kind of personality to greater efforts.

[Jim Lane]

14. We'll be seeing this stuff for years

You ask, "I wonder if this is going to die out at some point or if we are witnessing the birth of a new long-lasting crank movement?" The answer is pretty clear: long-lasting crank movement.

Some of these people have asserted that, because Obama is ineligible to be President (for whichever reason(s) they subscribe to), nothing he will do as President will be legitimate. Bills he signs are not law. Regulations promulgated by the executive branch are invalid. Federal judges he appoints are not really judges. The military need not obey his orders -- in fact, military personnel who've sworn to uphold the Constitution have a duty NOT to obey his orders.

The next four or eight years will present many opportunities for raising these arguments. Of the many lawsuits that will involve an Obama-era statute or regulation, or an Obama appointee, a small percentage of the litigants will assert this defense. It will be only a small percentage, but it will still be a large absolute number. It will be like the recurring argument that no one needs to pay federal income tax because the Sixteenth Amendment wasn't properly ratified. (See the Wikipedia article on for an idea of what to expect.)

[Starry Messenger]

18. Good point.

I hadn't quite grasped the scope of this line of thinking. Yikes. That just made me feel a little dizzy.

[PatGund]

22. Yep.....

Gary Kreep (one of Keyes lawyers) has already said he intends to challenge every single thing Obama does in court because he's an usurper and not really the president.

So, long-lasting crank movement

[treestar]

27. Maybe he'll be sanctioned under Rule 11 or declared a vexatious

litigator - then he will claim he is "persecuted."

[PatGund]

29. We can hope.....

The guy filing the latest case in Washington State, Stephen Pidgeon, is a religious fundy with ties to Gary Kreep's group as well.

[Starry Messenger]

39. Pidgeon & Kreep.

!! Sounds like something out of Dickens.

[janx]

43. IT DOES!!

It really does!! :rofl:

[PatGund]

45. *laugh*

You're right, it does!

[rvablue]

8. Keyes' lawyer in CA, Orly Taitz , is actually a dentist.....and they wrote about

her in their little gated community newspaper re: the BC case.

For the life of me, even if someone is RW, how in the hell can they let this woman come near them with a dental drill.....freakin' scary....she's obviously unhinged.

[PatGund]

9. *chuckle* Yep

Dr. Orly Taitz, DDS, Esq. And, based on the appearances and pictures of her, she's not wrapped very tightly at all.

[PatGund]

10. Oh, and that's one of Keyes lawyers....

The other is the very well named "Gary Kreep", who made a name for himself defending birth control arsonists in court and ended up having to pay Planned Parenthood a pretty good chunk of change.

[Rhiannon12866]

11. Very interesting. But what a waste of time and money...

If anyone's birthplace is suspect, it's McCain's...:eyes:

[keepthemhonest]

20. Thank you...

yeah Panama City or some crap like that.

[Rhiannon12866]

32. Exactly. Though of course his father was in the Navy...

But, if they're keeping track, Hawaii was already a state when Obama was born, while Panama is definitely foreign soil... This whole brouhaha is just nuts...:crazy:

[acmavm]

13. Is this what you were going for?

fandango - 1 thesaurus result

Main Entry: fandango
Part of Speech: noun
Synonyms: dance, nonsense, tomfoolery, tune

Synonym Collection v1.1
Copyright © 2008 by Dictionary.com, LLC.
Cite This Source

[PatGund]

23. Yep.....

Mistyped it :-)

[and-justice-for-all]

15. Pathetic...

very very pathetic.

If those losers would put that much effort in to things like, feeding people....

[AZSlacker]

16. Where have these constitutional stalwarts been for the last 8 years?

:eyes:

[Hokie]

17. There are a few sites where the nuts hang out

One that is entirely devoted to the citizenship cause is http://www.democratic-disaster.com run by a former Ron Paul supporter and certified kook from North Carolina, Doug Schell. It is funny to read the completely insane stuff there. I think Philip Berg has a site, also. I see a lot of posts at Schell's site liking Berg's site.

[PatGund]

24. He does - Obamacrimes.com

Bring a barf bag, it's almost as bad as free republic.

[TheBigotBasher]

34. Almost as bad?

Some of these claimed at some point to be progressive. These bigots would not be demanding to see an Alaskan birth certificate.

Freepers have some form of Political understanding and believe that their mad ideology is right for America. These lot serve as a simple reminder that some people do not only use hate to sell their viewpoint, their build their political outlook on it.

[PatGund]

35. Hate is a pretty heady drug.....

And some of the Cult of the COLB, (particularly the ones out of PUMA land, like Berg, TexasDarlin, etc,) have been mainlining that hate since the primaries.

Hell, Berg's original lawsuits were timed and came with requests for "emergency orders" trying to block the DNC from nominating Obama so a "more electable candidate" could be selected.

All that fuels many of these people is hate. Blind, irrational, unthinking hate.

[TheBigotBasher]

36. TexasDarlin pushed a hate meme from StormFront.

I really can not imagine who this Texas Darlin is but I doubt it is from Texas or is a Darlin.

This birth cert crap comes from TechDude, a StormFront bigot. They are running with what they think is a baton, but is nothinbg but a pile of shit. Even some of the scum at Nothalfbigoted now recognise this.

[PatGund]

37. TechDude....

....burned his bridges with the cultists to the point only Pamela Geller at "Atlas Shrugs" still openly supports him, (though Philip Berg does comment on his "research" and never removed it from his lawsuit.)

The so-called "Dr. Ron Polarik (Ph.D. in Bullshitology)" is the one really pimping the "fake birth certificate" crap. He's become a demi-god over at Free Republic due to his rantings.

[TheBigotBasher]

42. How did TechDude burn his bridges?

Did they catch on fire when the crosses were burning?

I asked about Techdude on nothalfbigoted, my posts got deleted and I had to change IP/ user name again.

[PatGund]

44. Basically.....

"TechDude" overreached himself. He kept making one claim after another, ending up when he claimed he could identify the "real" name in the COLB Obama has posted on his website. At that time I made a bet that the name was going to be Maya Soetoro.

I won that bet.

Problem for "TechDude" after that was nobody else could verify his claim. There were calls for him to show how he did it. Instead, he claimed he had gotten death threats against him and his family, (earlier he reported a dead rabbit on his doorstep), and withdrew his stuff. Soon after that, "TexasDarlin" and "NoQuarter" dropped his articles.

Berg originally cited him as a reference on his website and in his lawsuit. He removed the article from his website, but left the "Maya Soetoro" claim in his lawsuit and has mentioned it in interviews. A couple of the "Berg-clone" lawsuits also reference the claim. Publically, the only site still *openly* using TechDude as a resource is the far-right blog "Atlas Shrugs".

[WeDidIt]

19. If the Wrotnowski request for stay is not granted today, it's over.

The Electoral College votes Monday. It doesn't matter what the SCOTUS does after Monday, the election falls into the hands of the Congress once teh Electoral College votes.

So no matter what the birth certificate cultists wish and dream about, it's over if Wrotnowski is not granted a stay today.

[PatGund]

25. Nope.....

Because the next string in their bow is to challenge the electoral college. Failing that, either getting a Representative or Senator to question the results, or getting a court injunction to prohibit the Senate, House, or VP from certifying the results of the electoral college.

They're also flooding electors with emails and physical mails demanding they question the citizenship status, and have multiple lawsuits against State Secretaries of State from certifying the electors in their states.

Failing all that, demands that Chief Justice Roberts not give Obama the Oath of Office. Failing that, plans to challenge everything Obama does in office due to his being an usurper and not really the president.

Orly Taitz is also trying to get active duty, reserve or former military to file suit in court claiming they can't follow Obama's orders due to his being unqualified to be president.

Not over yet, sad to say. *faceplant*

[Jim Lane]

26. A point about the Chief Justice

You give a good summary of what the wingnuts will try. In the time I've spent on their sites, I haven't seen very much about this one: "Failing all that, demands that Chief Justice Roberts not give Obama the Oath of Office."

It's customary for the Chief Justice to swear in the President. In fact, however, any judge can do it. After JFK was assassinated, LBJ was sworn in by federal District Court judge Sarah T. Hughes on Air Force One in Dallas.

Roberts won't decline, but even if he did, there would probably be some judge willing to come forward and perform the task.

[jberryhill]

53. They claim to have a GA rep that has made friendly noises, btw /nt

[ellacott]

28. Did the court make a decision on this?

[PatGund]

30. With the Wrotnowski case....

It wasn't listed in the orders for 12 Dec. from SCOTUS, so the chances of it being granted are slim and none. We'll know for sure Monday.

There's between two and four more cases at the SCOTUS level though, including the granddaddy of the Birth Certificate cases, Berg v. Obama. And a shitcan full at the state levels

[WeDidIt]

31. Wrotnowski was a stay request.

The request was to stay the Electoral College vote.

That vote takes place on Monday, so since they did not grant on Friday it would be logistically impossible to grant on Monday due to a requirement that all 50 States be notified before a single electoral vote is cast.

So effectively, Wrotnowski is dead.

[keepthemhonest]

21. Crazy....Toys in the attic ...Crazy..... NT

[PatGund]

33. Yep.....

They're becoming more like UFO cultists, JFK conspiracy buffs, and Moon Landing hoaxers all the time.

[jberryhill]

38. What is the likelihood of this becoming a dangerous cult...

They seem to be holding on to each next "hope", from the court actions, to persuading the electors, to asking Roberts not to swear him in, to suggesting that his actions as president will be void.

There are some which seem to be encouraging military insubordination and mutiny.

At what point do they either decide to hang it up, or do they reach/encourage someone to do something dramatic?

There was a great documentary on the Jonestown mass suicide on MSNBC today, and it drove home the point that these were ordinary people who by degrees became dependent on Jim Jones for their information and were suspicious of "outside" ideas.

Freeperville is becoming something of an online Jonestown, if you watch them closely.

[niceypoo]

41. There are always a few who go off the deep end..

McVeigh was one. The right wing terrorist attacks will soon begin anew.

[PatGund]

46. The thing that cheers me up.....

....is that the numbers are so small. While they claim to represent the 54 million that voted for McCain, (in much the same way their PUMA kindred claimed to represent the 17 million that voted for Sen. Clinton), in actual practice their numbers seem to be far far less than that. (the rally at the Supreme Court on 5 Dec only had about 32 people.) And you see the same names and sockpuppets (hi Ted!) over and over again on the different sites.

I think anyone prone to violence will look for any excuse, but there really doesn't seem to be the numbers here to worry much. And they're getting discouraged by the fact the right-wing media won't pick this story up,

I will note some of the cult boards have started policing themselves and posting warnings about threats. I suspect they're being warned not too politely by outside sources.

A couple of the lawyers involved in this mess are trying to find anyone active or reserves in the military to sue based on the idea that an "usurper" can't give an illegal order. They're not having much luck. And considering how much active duty service people donated to Obama, I doubt they'll find many at all.

[jberryhill]

54. "I suspect they're being warned"

And they bear watching, as some of the threats use code language.

You'll still see vague calls for "some patriot to stand up, if the courts and congress won't" kind of language.

[Swamp Rat]

40. LOLOLOL!!!!!

:rofl:

[sandypoo]

47. Wrotnowski denied

Wrotnowski was denied yesterday. And I've looked for the Broe case on the Washington Supreme court website, and can;t find it. Oral arguments there are held on January 13th, not the 6th. Motions are heard on the 6th.

But....for those who still hold out hope, I know a guy who's the second cousin to another guy who's friend heard on a bus that some other guy who's fifth cousin twice removed had his hair cut at a downtown Miami barber shop and overheard another guy in ther next chair say that his fourth cousin third removed knew another guy who swore he saw someone being born in Kenya, North Dakota.

There's your proof, call the Supreme Court.

Makes about as much sense as the right wingnut blogs.

[PatGund]

48. Here's the info on the Broe case.....

...straight from the asses mouth

http://decalogosintl.org/?p=75

Once Berg clone case here in Washington State against SoS Reed was already shot down, I see no reason this won't be either.

[sandypoo]

49. Thanks, but...

I saw that link. I just find it interesting that I can't pull anything up on the Washington Supreme Court on Broe.

[PatGund]

51. If you do....

Let me know, please?

[gauguin57]

50. Think of all the struggling families who could have been helped with the $ thrown away on this BS!!

sickening.

[Jester Messiah]

52. With all due respect to the issue...

Fuck the wingnuts!