My swing voting sister

[Droopy]

My sister was all gung-ho for Kerry after seeing the Democratic National Convention. She voted for Bush last time so I was really surprised to hear her talking up Kerry. She called me after she saw Kerry's speech at the convention and talked for a solid half hour about all the great stuff that Kerry wanted to do and how she was going to vote for him. I was elated.

Fast forward to today. I got a phone call from her and we were just talking about life and stuff and then she says, "I'm not so sure I'm going to be voting for Kerry." At first I was kind of pissed and then I just asked her why. She said it was because of Kerry's indecisiveness. Wow, I wonder where she heard that. I went through several reasons why it would be to her advantage to vote for Kerry. Her husband is a union worker. They make around $60,000 a year. I told her about the job losses and the economy to which she said that she thought the economy was doing pretty good :puke:. I told her about Kerry's stance on Iraq- I think that's where this indecisiveness bit is coming from- and how he really hasn't changed positions on that issue even though BushCo keeps saying he has. Nothing worked.

It's very frustrating to see her doing this swinging thing. She's at the whim of the tv ads and the media talking heads. And I can't help wondering how many people are like this. She gets all of her information from the tv. She doesn't have internet access so I can't point her to excellent resources such as this site. She thinks Bush is better for America. She doesn't have any party affiliation, she just votes for the person who she thinks will do a better job. What would you say to someone like that?

[Catfight]

1. Does she not see her own ambivalence in that statement? LOL

First she's decisive, now she's not, how ironic. LOL Kids.

[Kahuna]

2. These are the voters that we are losing because of Kerry's

Grand Canyon statement. I'm a stanch Dem so nothing will keep me from voting for Kerry on election day. The undecideds are just like your sister. A statement like Kerry made at the Grand Canyon is just enough to sway them. Now if he clarifies himself, they will say he is flip flopping again. I'm totally disgusted with the whole situation. I honestly don't know what to say to voters like her.

[Droopy]

9. What did Kerry say at the Grand Canyon? n/t

[Kahuna]

17. A reporter asked Kerry to respond to bush's challenge on how he

would vote today on the IRW. Kerry responded that knowing what he knows now he still would have voted the same way. There was a collective gasp by the bush hating public. The rest is history.

[Droopy]

20. Damn, that's the first I've heard of that

Kerry surely isn't making our job easier by making statements like that. And your right, if he trys to clear that up by saying he would have voted that way just to get the inspectors in he'll be accused of flip flopping.

[progressivebydesign]

24. It's easy to gasp when you don't know the entire comment..

Unfortunately, Americans have the attention span of a gnat. Kerry's comments are QUITE decisive and quite consistent with a strong leader. He said that he would vote the same way. Yes. BUT, it was BUSH'S mistakes and missteps that failed, NOT his vote. He would still vote for authority to do what was necessary (as Clinton said, Saddam is a bad dude and needed to be taken out, just not like that) to remove Saddam... Bush is the one that fucked it up, not Kerry and not the others that voted to give the President some teeth in forcing compliance with the UN Inspections, etc. Those that voted for the IWR were not handing Bush a blank check.. Kerry did NOT flip-flop.. flip-flop is deciding you'd vote differently after the fact. He maintains that giving a president authority to do something is not wrong, it's what the president DID with that.. that's the problem.

I think some people are just so gullible...

[jab105]

25. My problem is that we shouldn't have gone to war with Iraq...

PERIOD!!

Saddam was contained...he was a bad guy, but a contained bad guy...he was secular...and he kept the fundamentalist MAJORITY under control...

Kerry is completely WRONG!! And from most answers I read from him, he really doesnt get this point...that even going in with the 'coalition'...it would be an absolute mess...and it was the WRONG WAR TO FIGHT!

[Kahuna]

35. Everybody KNOWS that Americans have a short attention span..

That's why bush is successful. He is the king of short, digestible soundbytes. If Kerry can't keep it meaningful and succinct, he should not put himself in situations like he did at the Grand Canyon.

[bookman]

21. I think there are some answers here...

http://www.kerryoniraqwar.com/

[cheshire]

3. Your sister does this for the attention, I'll bet you could get her to

talk about anything else and just ignore her. I'll also wager If she's married to a union man she won't bit the hand that feeds her. I am married to the union and It is to important for livelyhood to go against where the money comes from. She likes seeing you riled up I'll bet.

[Droopy]

8. I don't think she's just trying to push my buttons

She's not that kind of person. She's very nice. I think she just honestly believes the line of crap that BushCo is pushing. Like that flip flopping crap. That's all you here from a member of BushCo when the camera is rolling. Every time their on they say something about that. I think she's just bought into that.

[cheshire]

13. I'm not saying she's not a nice person but maybe she needs attention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Many I lost a freind that way

to the dark force... and he is now blaing clinton and everybody else but bush for what is going on

[Shoeempress]

5. I have a friend like that. He voted for NADER last time, and as a

result I have been sending him the Top to Conservative Idiots, via snail mail each week as he is computer Illiterate. He's totally in the Kerry camp now. Try that. They are a fun read and VERY persuasive.

[krkaufman]

6. Well done. n/t

[Droopy]

7. That's a good idea

Thank you. I'll give that a shot.

[krkaufman]

10. Lead her away from the superficial issues..

... to more core/basic ones; such as...

• Allowing our policies to be dictated by oilmen is not going to help us reduce our dependence on foreign oil -- which is at the heart of our position in the Middle East, and is why we continue to be Israel and Saudi Arabia's bitch.
  
  
• Bush's war in Iraq was ill-advised, ill-conceived and "ill-executed". Bush's war has increased terrorism -- recruiting and attacks -- and has put the US and the world in greater danger. Bush's war in Iraq has diverted resources from the more critical fight against Al Qaeda -- evidenced by the resurgence of the Taliban in Afghanistan and the continued freedom of Osama bin Laden, Mullah Omar and many of the others on the FBIs "Most Wanted Terrorists" list.
  
  
• Tax cuts, tax cuts and more tax cuts -- with a preponderance going to the rich -- is not an economic policy; it is better described as handouts and bribes. (Aside from the fact that they've been proven as failures in achieving Bush's stated objectives.)
  
  
• The right-wing "free market" policies have been tried before, and they earned us the Great Depression.
  

[Droopy]

11. Excellent points, krkaufman

Thanks for your input.

[blue neen]

12. Print the excellent articles that are posted on the DU every day,

and send them to her. Check links and print the ones that you think would sway her. Print Skinner's post about the Air Force lie today.
Point out what a LIAR Bush is.

[Droopy]

16. I've tried going talking about BushCo's lies

Especially in regard to BushCo, WMDs and the push for war in Iraq. I don't think I've made any headway there. I'm not sure she believes me, but if I had articles to back up my point of view, as you and someone else have suggested, that might make a difference. Thanks.

[Chili]

14. I was shocked to have a similar conversation...

...with a close Republican friend of mine, who earlier in the year was determined to vote a straight Democratic ticket for the first time in her life. Suddenly, now, Kerry's "not trustworthy." I nearly passed out from trying to keep my cool, I don't want to piss her off, she is very uninformed, and doesn't take or have the time to do all the reading we do. That's the problem: we're tuned in almost 24/7 to what's going on, while other people can blissfully go an entire week without hearing a single "newscast" or, God forbid, reading a newspaper / magazine article. Sometimes they get their opinions based solely on what somebody else "heard." That's all it took to make my friend suddenly doubt Kerry. When I asked her "was it those stupid Swiftboat ads?" she didn't even recognize the term "Swiftboats"... she'd just "heard" that Kerry was lying about his record - probably from somebody she trusts - and that's all it took to sway her the other way.

This is EXACTLY what the Bush minions count on - it works like a charm. We are up against terrible odds, here, informing the public of what they should already know. You can't make somebody read the truth.

Fortunately, I had the mountain of articles at my fingertips (thanks to ALL YOU GOOD FOLKS HERE!) and emailed her 30+ links to articles - not op/ed pieces, but hard articles - debunking the SBL. To her credit, she is slowly going through them. I don't know what the outcome will be, but only forcing people to read the truth will help. I hope it does for your sister too. And my friend. She's not a right-wing freak by any stretch... just woefully uninformed, which is worse because it's so easily remedied.

[Droopy]

19. I hope you can turn her around, Chili

I'm going to try giving her some articles. Hell, I might even do that today since we both have the day off and run them over to her. I think if she had internet access it would make the job a whole lot easier. If only I could get her to get a computer and join this site I think she would find that she has a lot more in common with Dems than Repubs.

[Chili]

37. I'm glad you mentioned that, Droopy, that's another thing...

...internet access. My friend does have internet access on the job, but they're not allowed to look at ANYTHING not work-related, not even on their lunch hour. So anything she reads, she has to come home and fire up her slow phone connection to read anything online, the last thing she - and anyone else who works on a computer all day - wants to do. (...except us, LOL).

And her husband, a very sweet good-hearted man, is probably totally computer illiterate. There's no telling where they get their "news."

Good luck with your sis, I hope she comes around too! I know we all sometimes lump the non-believers into the 'stupid' or 'brainwashed' category, but sometimes that's just not the reason.

[NuttyFluffers]

15. ask her 'who sold you that load of crap'

when she answers 'all over the TV' respond, 'do you believe everything you watch on tv, especially when they have big money riding on bush? or do you try to read and find out stuff for yourself?'

when she appropriately feels like she's been had gently refer her to websites where she can make a logical dicision on her own.

when people flip flop over kerry 'flip-flopping' when bush and co. are the champions of flip-flopping you really gotta nip such stinkin'-thinkin' in the bud right fast.

[alcuno]

18. "The American people have already test driven this president and

he's a clunker. Time for a new one. These guys are politicians and they need to fear us, the American citizens. When they do a bad job, they get the boot. When Kerry sees how Bush got tossed aside he will work hard for us. JUST LOOK AT BILL CLINTON."

[deadparrot]

22. Try this new Yahoo story for your sister.

If she really has a problem with Kerry's "flip-flopping":

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&e=9&u=/ap/flipping_and_flopping

[Droopy]

23. Thank you, deadparrot

I will print it up and give it to her.

[West Coast Democrat]

26. I don't think Kerry should campaign to the whims of flip-flop voters...

We should concentrate on getting out our vote, not trying to say all of the "right" things to convince people like this.

Some people are very misinformed voters, and they don't see a need to follow the real issues. Why are these "swing" voters such a priority in the first place? These people don't take politics nor elections seriously, so how are we supposed to appeal to them effectively?

[Droopy]

28. While I agree that Kerry should not campaign that way

I think we just need to get Kerry's message to independents and they will see the light. All they are seeing right now is this flip flopping business which isn't true. And besides, I'm not saying Kerry should campaign that way. This is my own personal campaign. We live in Ohio and we're going to need all the Kerry votes we can get to carry the state.

[Droopy]

27. UPDATE

I took the advice of some of you and printed up some articles and took them over to her. Her main issue right now is that she's bought into this flip flopping business about Kerry that BushCo is trying to sell. I told her that is just something they've created to make Kerry seem indecisive and Bush the opposite and told her who the real flip flopper is. I also said that Bush's policies are designed to screw over people in our income range. And that Bush will be cutting funding in social services to help pay for the tax cuts. I'll see what she thinks after she's read the articles and keep supplying her with them.

[rookwood]

29. .

droopy, i don't know in what state you and your sister are in, but if you might try to get her to listen to randi rhodes on air america. randi has spoken quite a bit about kerry's statement on iraq (he'd do the same again).

she expains kerry's position as his vote was for the president to get u.n. inspectors in to do their jobs, and that was the correct vote. bush didn't do his job, but it was the right thing to do to get the inspectors in.

if you don't have an air america station in your area, it can be streamed off the web (for you, as i know you said she doesn't have internet access).

cheers :)

[Droopy]

30. Welcome to DU, rookwood

We live in southwestern Ohio. There are no Air America affiliates around here or you can bet I'd take your advice and try to get her to listen in. I've explained Kerry's position on Iraq to her a couple of times, but I don't know if it's sunk in yet. I'll keep talking to her about it and supplying her with articles. Hopefully she'll get the message.

[rookwood]

31. thanks, droopy :)

i'm a long-time lurker on political boards, so i'm familiar with du, even though i've spent most of my time lurking at tabletalk. ;)

i +believe+ air america/randi rhodes just added an affiliate in northern ohio -- but that might not help you.

you can stream the shows from the sirius network.

randi is, for all her faults (and she has some) very effective in relating facts and arguements that one can pass along.

cheers :)

[RobinA]

32. I Feel Your Pain

I come from a family of swing voters. They vote for the likes of Perot and Nader. They know they don't like Bush, but can't bring themselves to vote for a Democrat (horrors!). There's just something about Kerry they don't like. They can't explain it. There was something about Gore they didn't like. I've given up.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

33. Bush caused the war in Iraq, he is responsible. It is an unmitigated

disaster, Hussein in prison does nothing to help their situation. He has shown himself unworthy of the trust of the country and accountability demands that he be replaced.

End of story.

[DaveSZ]

34. Both flip flop

http://www.columbusdispatch.com/election/election-president.php?story=dispatch/2004/09/12/20040912-A6-00.html

GOP ignores Bush flip-flops in pinning label on Kerry
Sunday, September 12, 2004
Tom Raum
ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON — While working relentlessly to portray Democratic Sen. John Kerry as a "flip-flopper," President Bush has his own history of changing his position, from reversals on steel tariffs and "nation-building" to reasons for invading Iraq.

Most recently, Bush did an about-face on whether the proposed new director of national intelligence should have full budget-making powers as the bipartisan Sept. 11 commission recommended. Bush at first indicated no, then last week said yes.

Just as GOP efforts to question Kerry’s military record in Vietnam helped revive nagging questions about Bush’s service in the Air National Guard, the flip-flop attacks on Kerry could boomerang against an incumbent running on his record and reputation as a straight talker.

"The guy who is the ultimate flip and flop is this sitting president," said Democratic Sen. Joseph Biden Jr. of Delaware.

[Droopy]

36. Yeah that's a point that I've been trying to hammer home

Right now she seems to trust Bush more than Kerry and it's really unfounded when you look at the facts. That's the problem. She's not getting the facts. I ran a couple of articles over to her today, I'll see if that has any affect on her.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

38. Does she trust YOU, and YOUR JUDGEMENT, who have researched

all this carefully when she has not?

[Droopy]

40. I hope so

She knows I visit a poltical web site and that I spend a lot of time reading up on politics. But in the end all I can do is try to get her information. I don't think she'll vote for Kerry just because I tell her to. She's an independent after all. But I think I can influence her just by talking to her about the issues and providing her with articles. Her only sin is that she is just uninformed.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

42. I'm not saying that she should do anything because you said to. But it

is a valid point to ask, since she knows you better than almost anyone, and that you, who appear to be an intelligent and thoughtful person, and one whose motives she trusts, and has spent a lot of time reading about this, have these grave reservations about the current president, she should respect that and at least read and seriously pay attention to information you give her about this. The fact that you have these concerns (and the terms "concerns" and "reservations" are really way too weak for what must of us here on DU feel about the nation's situation) should be something that gives her pause, assuming that you have credibility with her, being her sister and all.

The responsibility on your end then is to carefully choose the information provided to eliminate the most inflammatory and least factually based stuff. And to be respectful and approachable with her and willing to engage in dialogue rather than scolding etc.

[LisaL]

39. Just tell her

Bush flip-flops constantly. Finding Osama was his first priority-but now he apparently doesn't care where Osama is. He said that "We can't win war on terror"-one day. But he said "We can win war on terror"-the next day. There are numerous examples of Bush flip-flopping.

[Droopy]

41. Yeah

Somebody provided me with an excellent article on Bush's flip flops and I took that over to her today along with the last edition of "Top 10 Conservative Idiots." I plan on keeping the articles flowing in her direction. There is just so much here on the web that people who don't have internet access miss out on. So I'll be supplementing her daily doses of news she gets from television with sources from the net.