Stop

[Splinter Cell]

Stop crapping all over Obama. We've had the worst fucking president in history for the last 8 years, and now we have elected a great man to actually get something done. Let's let him take office before we shit all over him.

Not everything he does will please everyone. No matter what, somebody is always going to be upset with whatever a president does. That's life.

I wasn't thrilled about Hillary getting SOS, but I'm willing to support the choice and give her the benefit of the doubt.

It's incredible that after the disaster that was the Bush administration, we're actually blasting the calvary as it arrives to save our ass.

Some people may not agree with all of your opinions, but that doesn't make them the enemy. Even if people don't feel the same way you do about hot-button issues like gay marriage, that doesn't make them scum. If you can't accept the fact that some people have other opinions, or other priorities and are not just focused on one issue, that's your problem.

We need to make a real effort to rise above the bullshit that the right wing wallows in. This idea of "US VS THEM" is freeptard crap.

Don't attack all Christians. You may not agree with their beliefs, but not all Christians are the assholes you make them out to be. I'm a Christian myself, and every time I see people on here lump us all into the Jerry Falwell pile I cringe. It's the same thing that many evangelicals have done to many of the people here.

Don't assume that every democrat to the right of Dennis Kucinich is a traitor. We can't win if we move too far to the left. It's that simple. The GOP has found out that they can't win if they move too far to the right. There is a common middle-ground, and Obama is seeking to establish himself there as a pragmatic leader.

We nominated and elected the best candidate our party has had since John F. Kennedy. Let's take a moment, cool our jets, and figure out how we can pull this country out of the ditch.

[Critters2]

1. I think DU needs a "gays should just get over it" group or forum.

God knows there are enough of these threads to keep it going.

[Beacool]

10. You can join as women who complained about sexism and were told the exact same thing.

How many people here chuckled at every misogynist crap thrown at Hillary? Well, I guess some must agree with Warren that women should be subservient to men. Just a week ago many were defending the two punks who were photographed groping and fondling a cut out of Hillary as just a case of "boys will be boys". The fact that it was Obama's speech writing team doing the groping didn't seem to bother too many.

:eyes:

[Splinter Cell]

12. Oh...

Hillary was a constant victim of sexism. She didn't lose the nomination because of the clusterfuck of a campaign she ran, it was all sexism.

And yet it was ok for the Clintons to take every chance they could to remind people Obama was black? Remember how Hillary was for "hardworking Americans, white Americans"?

Maybe Obama was able to "shuck and jive" his way to victory. Give me a fucking break.

[Beacool]

22. At what point did I state that Hillary lost the primary due to sexism?

As for that remark about hardworking Americans, she was quoting the AP. It was a factual statement, she WAS getting their vote. Besides, Obama liked to remind people that he was black when it suited his purposes. Though he remembered his white half pretty fast when the Rev. Wright issue came up. Remember his comment about grandma? Yeah, she was just a "typical white person". Imagine anyone getting away with calling Obama a "typical black person". Ahhh yeah, hypocrisy abounded........

:eyes:

[snowbear]

25. Geezuz Key-Freakin Rhyst..............

.
.

Wow Beacool. I really wish you could be cool.

But with a comment like that... eeesh.

[Beacool]

30. Sorry, but I was responding in kind to someone else.

Peace.......

;-)

[emilyg]

24. Not like O reminded everyone he was black?

[FrenchieCat]

27. Not like he had to.......it was the discussion on most cable news channel....

at least 24/7 for some weeks and months. It was the feature story in tons of magazines.
The big question was always "can this Black guy win the general election".....I remember the pitch to the delegates.....and not from the Obama campaign.

And plus, everyone who can see saw that.

[Beacool]

29. Well, it's a matter of perspective.

What I saw was the race card constantly being used against the Clintons and anyone else who dared to question Obama on anything. People felt that they had to walk on egg shells lest they offend. The first time I remember someone from the MSM throw a tough question to Obama was over the Rev. Wright issue. Before that, he got glowing press. Now, when it doesn't matter anymore, many on the media admitted that they were besotted with him and his personal history.

Whatever, what's the point anymore?

:eyes:

[ellacott]

31. Is he black enough?

That's a question that was asked long before Rev. Wright became an issue. Questions were asked constantly about his experience. He didn't just walk into the Presidency. His "bitter" comments garnered a lot of tough questions. There are other examples.

You're right, it's a matter of perspective.

[Beacool]

37. "Bitter" questions came after the Rev. Wright issue.

And boy were people hopping mad in PA, it was the gift that kept on giving.

The question of whether he was black enough had nothing to do with the Clinton campaign, it was raised by some pundits (including some who were black). Heck, Rev. Jackson raised the question himself at one point and later on suggested his nuts should be cut off.

:eyes:

[ellacott]

42. I'm not talking about what Clinton supposedly did

I'm commenting on the fallacy that the press didn't ask him tough questions. I know blacks asked if he was black enough. That changes nothing.

I also believe it's a fallacy that Obama used the race card against Clinton.

[marimour]

45. OMG give me a f******* break. Can we please stop the Hillary pity party?

She spent countless hours "reminding" everyone to vote for a woman. Had Obama spend even 1/4 of that time reminding everyone he was black the Hillary supporters would have been screaming "race card". Sexism was not that bad in the primary from the general public and paled in comparison to the very open racism from both some Dems and a lot of Republicans.

[snooper2]

51. still

bitter?

[Solomon]

57. I know. Jeeezuz what a crock of shit.

It just keeps getting worse and worse. I never heard such crap even during the fiercest primary battles. Now that it's over, a lot of sewage is just ooozing around here.

[Beacool]

62. Still

obtuse?

:shrug:

[debbierlus]

36. It is only gay people who are upset. I am not gay, & I am fucking furious

This man is against women's rights, stem cell research, science, and gay rights.

This pick is a slap in the face to the progressive community who have had nothing but hate from the religious right shoved down our throats for eight fucking years.

The implications of this pick are equally as troublesome. You don't create change through appeasement of hate and fear. You confront it with facts and honesty, and you certainly do not give it center stage at the Presidential Inauguration

Would you say that to the black community, if he invited a noted racist whom advocated laws to take away minority rights?

What a dismissive, insulting comment...

And, we will see what type of President Obama actually is...He is an inexperienced Senator aligned with the right wing dems. Let's see how much change we get from that...I voted Obama because there was no other choice, but I will speak out against any wrongs he commits just as strongly as I did against George W Bush. It isn't about the politician. It is about the policy.

[roguevalley]

49. Picking warren so quickly after prop 8 was salt in the wound.

[JohnnieGordon]

2. Opposition to equality isn't an "opinion", it's bigotry

And bigots ARE scum, even when they only oppose the equality of gay people. The group it's still socially acceptable to be bigoted about.

[Splinter Cell]

9. So

Since Barack Obama doesn't support gay marriage, nor does Joe Biden, they are both scum?

[JohnnieGordon]

16. If that's their heartfelt position, yes, but I don't think it is

If Obama (or Biden) had come out in support of gay marriage, it would've been turned into a huge campaign issue, and it might've cost him the election. Therefore whether Obama is truly opposed to gay marriage or not, he felt he had to say he is. But I don't think he is actually opposed to gay marriage, the majority of highly educated Democrats, in his relatively young age bracket, are not opposed to gay marriage. Biden is also very pro-gay aside from marriage, which I think he's lying about so it doesn't cost him politically.

This does bring up the issue of whether someone is scum if they espouse a bigoted view, even if they don't believe it. Possibly that does still make someone scum, which wouldn't bother me to say about Obama because I personally only support him as a lesser evil. And he's clearly a much lesser evil than McCain would've been.

[AngryAmish]

38. So you expect to be lied to?

BO said very clearly that he beleives marriage is between a man and a woman. Period.

If one thinks being opposed to gay marriage makes one a per se bigot, then BO is a bigot in this area.

[JohnnieGordon]

52. Yes, it would've risked his candidacy too much give his actual opinion

And there's nothing difficult about understanding that. Considering the horrifying alternative (more neo-con rule), lying about gay marriage was a small concession to make.

[Maven]

3. People who have said and done the things Rick Warren has are scum.

Thanks for playing this round of "get over it, gays."

[gaspee]

23. Do we have

a nice parting gift for him and his "opinion" -- I will say that if you don't believe in equal rights for all, then you are scum. And if you hide behind your religion to do it, then you are cowardly scum.

[Sultana]

4. STOP! in the name of love b4 you break my heart...

:D


I think many have high expectations but man, there is no way around this for Obama... it's a big mistake.

:popcorn:

[EFerrari]

7. Think it oh -oh-ver!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDPjYZxi0n8

[EFerrari]

5. Rick Warren is a bigot and he has no place in a national celebration.

In other words, he is scum.

[boppers]

6. Hammertime!

[TK421]

59. I can't touch this...OP

:D

[Bluebear]

8. "Stop crapping all over Obama". yeah, he's the victim here.

[Splinter Cell]

11. ?

How the fuck does having a preacher say a prayer at the inaug. make anyone a "victim"?

It's not like Obama asked him to give a speech about gay marriage. All this outrage is a little over the top. Yes, I understand why you don't like Warren and don't agree with his beliefs. That makes sense. I don't understand how him saying a prayer is a personal slap in the face to you. You don't agree with him, that's your right. Don't invite him over for dinner. I don't personally have any affection for Rick Warren either, and there are many issues I disagree with him on, but that doesn't mean his being there on the 20th is a personal assualt on me.

[Bluebear]

15. He compared me to a child molester. You just will never get it.

[Splinter Cell]

19. You're right.

Because there really isn't anything to "get".

[mondo joe]

20. Your comfort with outright bigotry and lies is impressive. NT

[Bluebear]

21. What I get is you're a bigot/apologist. Ciao.

[AZBlue]

54. When did he say that? Link please?

This isn't a challenge - I'd sincerely like a link to that comment. Thanks!!

[bluedawg12]

13. Can you separate criticism of a decision from an attack a person?

these are choice:

"Don't assume that every democrat to the right of Dennis Kucinich is a traitor.

We can't win if we move too far to the left.

There is a common middle-ground, and Obama is seeking to establish himself there as a pragmatic leader."

........

So that justifies a homophobe bigot invited to the inauguration?




>>Saddleback Pastor Rick Warren has issued this statement on President-elect Barack Obama’s choosing him to give the invocation at Obama’s inauguration:

I commend President-elect Obama for his courage to willingly take enormous heat from his base by inviting someone like me, with whom he doesn’t agree on every issue, to offer the Invocation at his historic Inaugural ceremony.

Hopefully individuals passionately expressing opinions from the left and the right will recognize that both of us have shown a commitment to model civility in America. …<<

BFF :rofl:

I don't need Obama's dialogue with fundys on my behalf.

That is not his job. His job is to effect legislation and pick judges that honor the commitment to end anti-gay civil rights laws.

[AllentownJake]

44. Some people on here think that if we dare to say we disagree with him on something

than somehow everything is going to fall apart.

The GOP learned a very hard lesson when they failed to say they disagreed with their President till 2006.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Splinter Cell]

17. I don't think so.

My opinion matters as much as yours, even though I don't have time to post on here to the point that I have thousands of posts.

[mondo joe]

18. So don't get over it. You can suffer instead. NT

[tkmorris]

28. All opinions are not equal

Some have more value than others. Sorry, that's just the way it is.

And your opinion, on this matter, well it kinda sucks. Hope that helps.

[Control-Z]

26. yeah, but

can one abhor a man's principles and then rightly give him the spotlight? How in the name of any god does one justify that?

ANYONE who is intelligent and progressive is tolerant, at best, of people like Warren. Tolerance does not equate to celebrating, showcasing, or giving credence to the likes of him or his beliefs. A desire to extend the olive branch to those with whom we disagree is not usually, normally or rightly done in a manner such as Obama is imposing.

So, no, he can't please all the people all the time, but he most certainly should not be celebrating a man whose principles are at odds with the majority of his supporters. And yes he is, in fact, "celebrating" a man who is worthy or nothing more than tolerance and/or pity.

'Not everything he does will please everyone. No matter what, somebody is always going to be upset with whatever a president does. That's life.'

[mmonk]

32. Wish I had a dime for everytime someone said something like that to me.

It's not in my nature.

[MadHound]

33. A great man? That remains to be seen

Meanwhile it seems as though Obama is taking pains to crap all over the very people who got him elected. Member of the LGBT community, he gives you Rick Warren, a teacher, he gives you Duncan, an environmentalist, he gives you Salazar, anti-war, he states that he could redo his timetable, poor, he's going to let the Bush tax cuts for the rich expire, rather than repeal them, against warrantless spying, he votes for FISA, economic liberal against corporatization, he gives you Summers.

The man seems to be systematically going about trying to piss off a significant part of his base, all in some vain effort to win votes for 2012. Sorry, but that's bullshit, and if he governs in the way that his actions so far indicate, he's not going to be a great man at all, just another scum sucking corporatist member of the two party/same corporate master system of government that we've been suffering under for the past few decades. Change we can believe in my ass, the only thing he seems to be changing so far is much the same change Clinton brought about, a kinder, gentler face on the same ol' corporate screw job.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

34. Well said.

K & R'ed.

[AllentownJake]

35. Must worship OBAMA MUST WORSHIP OBAMA

Marching in lockstep is fucking stupid and gets us the decisions from the worst President in History.

I basically gave my life to Barack since February and if you think for one second I'm not going to call him out when I think he's done something insulting and insanely stupid get over yourself. I don't have borderline personality disorder, I can see the world in grey and I can like someone and be angry at a decision at the same fucking time.

Sorry, telling my friends their relationship is equal to child molestation makes a person scum and no glossing over it or rationilization or shaming by the Obama worshippers is going to stop me from expressing my opinion.

I support Barack Obama I don't worship him.

[HamdenRice]

39. As of this morning, according to some DUers he's a war criminal and a bigot

and he hasn't even been sworn in yet.

Many people here are "reality challenged."

[AllentownJake]

40. and some people on here think he can turn water into wine and walk on water

what the hell is your point?

[Raineyb]

58. It would apppear that the point is that if you disagree you should stfu

At least that's the impression I'm getting.

:shrug:

I intend to do no such thing but it's not conducive to wanting to have a conversation which in the long run is their intention I suppose. Ironic for a discussion board is it not?

Regards

[pecwae]

41. IOW, "You Gays best sit down & shut up!"

Brilliant!

[AllentownJake]

43. America isn't ready

I remember defending against that point for hours and not just on here but on the phone and knocking on doors from February to June 2008 on another issue...what was that? Oh yeah can a black man be President.

[pecwae]

46. I truly believe that GLBT

is a group that all others feel justified in discriminating against. Too, too many use their homophobia to close a gap between differences. No, America isn't ready. I'm not sure America ever will be ready.

[AllentownJake]

47. We'll get there

however, not fighting or speaking out is not the way to get there. The struggle will be long and hard however, history has shown that the struggle will pay off as long as patriots are willing to fight the fight. There will be set backs and there will be and Prop 8s along the way...however things not fought for are generally not worth it.

[Renew Deal]

48. I think we'll get there too.

I'm thinking about the changes I've seen in my lifetime. Even the suggestion of "gay marriage" would have started riots years ago. Now a large percentage of americans support it. Obviously not enough, but it's gaining support.

[Lyric]

50. No. I'll stop criticizing Obama when HE fucking stops pandering to bigots and starts acting

like he gives a damn about civil rights and equality.

[glowing]

53. Just because we've had the worst example of president, doesn't mean we

reduce our standards on someone who ran for 2 yrs to take the job. Sorry, just because bush is incompetant doesn't mean "just a bit better" is any excuse.

[jberryhill]

55. Pull!

[Neshanic]

56. That's the gas not the brakes!

[chascarrillo]

60. Fuck off.

If you think that we should all just shut up when confronted with bigotry, just fuck off.

[madmadmad]

61. STOP SPEAKING OUT AGAINST BIGOTRY? I THINK NOT.