I'm disappointed that a very outspoken handful of Democrats fight to get others to shut up

[Sarah Ibarruri]

I’m looking in the mirror and realize how wrong I have been. For the longest time I’ve attacked Nader and Kucinich. I said their followers didn’t know what they were doing, that their followers were going to sell out Americans by refusing to vote for the Democratic Party, and that their votes for Nader and Kucinich would deny votes to Democrats, thereby fracturing the Democratic Party.

Problem is, the Democratic Party is unwell and resembles the Republican Party more than it resembles the party of equality and fairness. It NEEDS TO BE HEALED, but it is not yet healed.

I’ve read about the 60s and the ideals of equality. I understand we’ve been through decades of Republican ideology. I understand many Democrats got lost in that wave and even began to agree with Republicans. But we need to return to our ideals of equality, NOT continue to sink lower into the sick ideals of Republicans. Case in point, Rick Warren, whom some VERY outspoken Democrats are continually asking everyone to just shut up about. We’re told by these people to accept that he’s going to represent Americans in OUR inauguration, or even worse, that there’s NOTHING wrong with having this man represent Americans in OUR inauguration.

Well, there IS something wrong in having a bigot and homophobe representing Americans and no amount of prodding that we all just shut up about it is going to change the fact that it is wrong. This is OUR inauguration. WE Democrats elected this man, Obama. HE was not elected by Republicans. An inauguration is not a time to celebrate bigots and homophobes. WE Americans should not be either prayed for or spoken to by someone who is an amoral bigot and homophobe, who wants to change our constitution to one that a theocratic bill of evangelically-interpreted bullshit.

This individual, Rick Warren has been piggish enough to:
1) EQUATE American gays with incest, pedophiles and polygamists;
2) ANNOUNCED that he loves gays because he organizes people to help with their “AIDS” problem.
3) PRONOUNCE that women should have no right to their own uterus;

But SOME very very outspoken Democrats are trying to force me and others to shut up about it and be happy. Instead of fighting to remove this disgusting individual from the inauguration, they’re saying it’s really “unimportant.” They’re saying that there’s nothing wrong with this man being honored by Obama. They say that, well, it’s not *really* an honor to have SELECTED HIM to pray for us and speak to us. They’re saying that OUR PARTY MUST be inclusive of people who want to deny civil rights to others, people who ridicule the very existence of others, and people who want to deny women rights to their very own body.

All I have to say is I’m amazed, and that I finally understand what followers of Nader and Kucinich meant all along. I apologize to Nader and Kucinich followers. You were right. I was wrong.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lostnotforgotten]

2. Long Time Kucinich Supporter Here - Apology Accepted, Glad Your Thinking Has Changed

eom

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. You're welcome nt

[Binka]

3. Amen Sarah! n/t

[Dennis Donovan]

5. Seconded, and Recommended!

:thumbsup:

[elocs]

6. "Problem is, the Democratic Party is unwell and resembles the Republican Party

more than it resembles the party of equality and fairness." EXACTLY! This has to give Republicans a good chuckle as they watch Democrats feed on each other.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

8. Then let's grow a pair of balls and stop licking the behinds of bigots and homophobes

and having them speak for us at inaugurations.

[Hepburn]

27. Amen, Sarah....

...my sentiments EXACTLY.

Having Warren on the platform....what a freaking insult to this nation.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

59. Thank you! nt

[No Elephants]

75. I agree with your underlying point. But why is courage always disussed in terms of testicles? Ever

see or hear of a guy fainting in the delivery room while his wife was in labor after carrying his kid for 9 months?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

84. LOL! You're right. I have a friend that says, "Grow a pair of ovaries!" nt

[BeFree]

7. And

You are wrong again. It is you telling us to shut up and get in line. It is you trying to deny folks who disagree with you a right to voice their opinions. It is you who is intolerant... almost as bad as this Warren fellow you are carrying around on your back.

[babylonsister]

9. And you are using the Warren selection to further your anti-Obama

rantings. I guess the argument about rethugs in his cabinet wasn't working out for you. :eyes:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8005920&mesg_id=8006017

[marimour]

31. and that is the real truth!

[LaydeeBug]

33. No, the REAL truth is that Obama invited a BIGOT to share a stage with him

again.

[LaydeeBug]

32. No she's not. She is speaking her mind. Just because YOU think he can do no wrong

doesn't mean there aren't a LOT of other Democrats....good people and patriots alike, who are going to speak TRUTH to power. I've not seen another poster on any forum anywhere who is so enamored that they couldn't bother to pay attention to the OP. Too bad you are too busy defending him to see that this is indefensible, and yet so easily remedied. One would THINK you would want your guy to do the right thing, but instead you try to defend the indefensible here. :eyes:

[babylonsister]

54. You are full of shit, but don't let that stop you. I have been vocally

against Obama picking Warren which you'd know if you had a clue what you were talking about. But you're too busy assuming the position:

[Balderdash]

80. So what is your point then?

I mean you're being pretty nasty for someone who agrees that Obama made a mistake with Warren.

[Grateful for Hope]

53. I noticed that too.

Some things are just too transparent.

[elkston]

10. God, what a drama queen. You're going nuclear over *this*?

How much wanna bet this gonna end up just like the Democratic Convention. Everyone thought it would be a disaster and the Clinton's would cause trouble, etc.

Instead we had unity and promise. Obama is going to pull something off here and we'll look upon it differently in retrospect.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

12. All that has to be done is to remove this sexist bigot and homophobe

Very simple, really. Why are you making it complicated and telling everyone to shut up about it and accept it? Remove him. Fight to remove him, rather than telling Democrats to shut up about it.

[elkston]

16. I think Obama stepped in SHIT here and he saw the pile a mile away.

It was totally avoiadable. Yeah, I wish he would just punt on the guy. But I have a feeling he is going to stand firm on this one. So I am shifting my focus to damage control amongst fellow Democrats. I would very much like to keep you in our (Obama-naughts) camp.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

61. You're right. He needs to get rid of him, period. nt

[cali]

23. oh please;. use some little grey cells. It's not remotely simple.

He should never have invited him in the first place but if he booted him now, he'd be crucified in the MSM in spectacular fashion and that in turn would damange him significantly and damage his ability to move his agenda. He'd have the shortest honeymoon on record- over before he was even sworn in.

[LaydeeBug]

34. but the inverse applies if he doesn't...

I am hoping he does something last minute, but I won't be surprised if he doesn't at all. Disappointed? Yes. Surprised? No.

[cali]

35. No, actually it doesn't- though he's certainly been put on notice

by liberals and the GLBT community.

[mondo joe]

26. We can have unity again, as soon as you ditch the anti-gay shit. nT

[Starry Messenger]

63. He's finally eating granite. n/t

[RetroLounge]

77. Finally TS'd!

asshat

RL

[wyldwolf]

11. oh, geez! Shut up! (just kidding)

[alwysdrunk]

13. Are people really saying "shut up and be happy"?

Or are they asking you to see this for the political tactical move that it is? That this is not a deliberate malicious act against one one of the core democratic constituencies, but a tactic for building up political capital.

You are very unfair to the Democrats defending our president-elect. No one is happy about this. No one is okay with this. People are just asking fellow Democrats to give the man a chance before you run to Nader or vow to work against his reelection before he's even taken office.

[PeaceNikki]

60. Yes. They are.

[alwysdrunk]

71. No one is saying "be happy". NO ONE is HAPPY about this

How about some honesty?

[PeaceNikki]

73. Yes they are.

[Honeycombe8]

14. Obama is not a one-issue President. You had Ron Paul to vote for, if that's what you wanted.

It's not always just about YOU, you know. There are many others to consider, other viewpoints, and the sensibility of picking your battles.

You REALLY want to go to the mat over a 10 minute prayer that doesn't "express" controversial views? Really? If you do, people will turn you off and not listen when it REALLY counts.

All these ministers have held these same views for decades. Were you upset when Bill Graham gave the prayer? Did you blog and protest, because Graham holds the view that women are second class? Of course not. Because that was not about YOU.

Gay activists have about five more decades to go before they get to the level of the women's rights movement or the civil rights movement. Consider all the gains that have been made in the short time the gay rights movement has existed. But that's not enough. You now require everyone to march in lock step with everything that bolsters "the cause." Even if someone has no effect on gay rights, even if someone is not in government, even if someone is not going to "express views" contrary to the gay rights movement....that's not enough. Everyone must refuse to associate with anyone and everyone who doesn't think like YOU do. That is a silly stance, and it cannot be done, even if someone wanted to live that way.

People are not evil and good, for the most part. Their viewpoints are not black and white (usu.). Warren is not bad, he is not evil. He has good points and bad points. But what's important is that he's giving a 10 minute prayer thingie because Obama, a religious man, chose him. It's just no big deal. I think that was a bad choice, but in the end, it's not a big deal. Choose your battles. There are much more important things to battle over.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

18. Fortunately you don't get to dictate what others consider important

[HamdenRice]

51. Oh, the irony!

Neither do you, get it?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

55. I'm glad "irony" was on your word-a-day calendar but you have no idea what it means

You have established that you are a compulsive liar and a genuine bigot so there's no irony in encouraging you and similarly afflicted folks to stop lying and slandering people.

You have the right to vomit up bigotry as long as the mods allow it but no one is obliged to treat you with the respect you have forfeited.

I am not suggesting that you must take the Warren thing seriously. I am suggesting that your affirmative cavalcade of hatred and baseless psychotic accusations is demented bullshit.

[pocoloco]

28. Wrong!

He's an evil dipfuck with emphasis on evil!!

[elocs]

15. "HE was not elected by Republicans."

My guess is that millions of not only Republicans, but also independents DID vote for Obama. Either way, he is our president, not just the president of Democrats but of everyone else also. Would the Democrats who are having election regret be happier with McCain? I wonder if Democrats are able to be happy for more than a moment at a time.

[alwysdrunk]

21. Independants and swing voters decide elections

This poster and some Duers seem to think that liberals and progressives are single-handedly responsible for the Obama win.

[No Elephants]

74. False dichotomy alert.

[fascisthunter]

17. You Definitely Struck a Nerve Here

...man, the personal attacks you are getting for it too.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

64. :-) They scurry around wildly when the truth is spoken nt

[HamdenRice]

19. I'm disappointed that a very outspoken handful of DUers are starting anti-Democratic Party websites

while endlessly spamming this one. I'm also disappointed that a handful of DUers have decided that the best way to get their point across is to dog whistle about "Blacks being the enemy," "voting to bring back slavery," "inviting the KKK to the inauguration" and so on.

Are you trying to alienate your supporters?

Heck of a job Ibarruri!

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

20. Your dog whistle that gays are racists and not true Democrats is loud and clear

[HamdenRice]

22. I never said gays are racists

I said there is a dedicated group of DUers who are using racial dog whistle tactics.

In the real world, I've never known a single GLBT person who is a racist. Obviously, oppression makes you understand the oppression of others. Just not here for some reason.

But that's out in the real world, and in my part of the real world, all the GLBT people I know are grown ups.

As for the "not true Democrats" idea, all you have to do is a little searching and see that many of those same dog whistlers have set up and or have joined a web site (apparently we're not allowed to link to it here) specifically to oppose the Democratic Party. That is a fact, not a smear.

Then the OP says she should have voted Nader. What more do you need?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

69. Oh yeah? I said I'd vote for Nader? You'd better re-read. I said I LEARNED. He was right.

I was wrong in ASSuming the Democratic Party was healed. There are many Democrats who are very happy with homophobes and bigots speaking at our inauguration.

[lostnotforgotten]

29. I Guess You Have Forgotten The Civil Rights For Which the Democratic Party

Fought long and hard.

[No Elephants]

76. Where are the threads favoring slavery or the KKK? I have not seen anything like that. Link?

[Jennicut]

24. Oh boy. Where to even begin

I think lots of back and forth is going on here by lots of posters telling each other to shut up. Look, Obama made a huge mistake. He f*cked up. I am mad at him. But I also know that he is the only hope we currently at this moment in December 2008 that we have. He is the most important Democrat we have right now and the most powerful. Protest, get angry but also know that Obama is our main leader and support him on the things you agree with him on. I can be disappointed but also know that I can support him at the same time.

[KittyWampus]

25. You are a hypocrite. You are one of a handful of DU'ers who has been stoking the outrage

daily. And that includes attacking anyone who shows a nuanced outlook.

Stop projecting your own messed up personality problems onto others.

[lostnotforgotten]

30. And You Believe In Shades of Gray Where None Exist!

eom

[KittyWampus]

36. I see reality in living color not black and white like a reptile.

eom

[lostnotforgotten]

41. Some Issues Are Simple - Discrimination / No Discrimination

Racism / No Racism - Bigotry / No Bigotry

If that makes me a reptile then so be it.

If it makes you a Racist, Bigot, or equal opportunity Discriminator, then so be it.

[bvar22]

57. Thanks! I didn't know promoting BIGOTRY and HATRED ...

...was just a matter of "nuance".
Guess I'm not as sophisticated as you, because it looks like a kick in the teeth to me.

[slackmaster]

37. I don't agree that anyone is trying to silence your viewpoint

Providing a few concrete examples would make your argument a lot stronger.

[marimour]

38. exactly!

Its just a bunch of empty screaming and yelling.

[slackmaster]

40. I find it kind of entertaining

People have sunk to a pretty low level to find sufficient outrage on this forum. Our candidate won the election, Bush will be out of office soon, and a Democratically controlled Congress and Executive branch should be able to start making real improvements in less than a month. But people are freaked out about someone who Obama chose to speak for about two minutes at his inauguration. We don't really even know if Rick Warren stands today behind everything he wrote and said in the past.

It's kind of like a college student who has run out of weed and resorted to scraping the seeds and dust from the bottom of a desk drawer to find something to smoke.

[HamdenRice]

42. "like a college student who has run out of weed and resorted to scraping the seeds and dust"

Weed addiction, outrage addiction -- I guess they have similar brain chemistry!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[slackmaster]

43. Some people gotta have their outrage, I just need a good strong cup of coffee every morning

:donut:

[marimour]

44. lol great analogy!

But I totally agree. Its like its not enough to have dozens of threads on the same exact topic, but if everyone in the DU world doesn't agree with you and they actually voice that opinion then they call it trying to shut them up.

[No Elephants]

82. No, there are lots of posts and a number of threads that have suggested, in varying degrees of

courtesy and profanity, that people stop complaining about the Warren pick. The purpose of such posts and threads is trying to shut people up.

[No Elephants]

39. To be honest, I wish all shut up and sit down threads on any subject would

disappear from this board. I have never seen anything like it. Posters should post on a topic. Instead, they post about posting or not posting. Clutters up the board with boring threads.

[JustAnotherGen]

45. Look I love our President Elect

I'm convinced this the man that will bring America back to prosperity - but one in which ALL people benefit - not just a handful at the top. I believe we will see a Nationalized Healthcare system, the emergence of 'Green Companies', and a return to walking softly but carrying a big stick.

But EVERY woman on this site - even if she IS a homophobe herself needs to read that third point: 3) PRONOUNCE that women should have no right to their own uterus;


Even if a male/female at DU is a closet homophobe - can you at least admit that this guy has it in for your Democratic Women?

Between his homophobic hate and belief in subjugating women - this man has NO BUSINESS on the national stage unless someone wants to open their wallet and buy his books or submit to being tithed at his church. I want the neo-cons and their christian bullshit coalition to shut up and go away.

If that makes me a reverse bigot - so be it. But this man's theology and ideology: Is the exact same stupidity we've had shoved down our throats for 8 years.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

72. I agree - this Rick Warren hates not only gays. He hates women nt

[No Elephants]

81. Not only does he have it in for your Democratic women, he has it in for your

Democratic candidates, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. And that includes Obama.

Warren preaches that it is the duty of Christians to refrain from voting for ANYone who is pro-choice for ANY office. local, state or federal. Close to all Democratic candidates, including Obama, run on a pro-choice platform. So work for Obama, contribute to Obama, then have no problem with someone who equates Obama and your other candidates with Satan.

Anything wrong with that picture?

[LWolf]

46. Hi, Sarah.

No apologies necessary for me, but I am glad you see the point.

BTW, Kucinich IS still a Democrat. ;)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

67. No, I know he is, but he's very different from most Democrats ;-)

He's not an unwell, sickly Democrat who is A-OKAY with homophobes, bigots and sell-outs.

[anaxarchos]

47. They key line in the OP is this one:

"Problem is, the Democratic Party is unwell and resembles the Republican Party more than it resembles the party of equality and fairness".

Actually the Democratic Party resembles the Republican Party because it threatens to fragment.

There is a deep political crisis in this country that has been building for over a decade. If you take the impact of Globalization, Economic crisis, internal immigration from "North" to "South", Iraq, Bush, and one hundred other factors as a whole, the very foundations of America's political coalitions are crumbling and new coalitions have not yet been constructed. Far from gloating, the Republican party nearly self-destructed from that process. The Democrats will also get their turn. No party and no candidate can be exempt from that.

In 2008, there was not a single candidate that could represent the various factions of the old Republican Party coalition. That is still the case today. The breach between theocrats, "fiscal conservatives", and all around "rich people" continues to widen.

In the Democratic Party, the opposite happened. The various fragments of the Democratic Party united under slogans broad enough and indistinct enough to encompass interests that vary widely. In part that was because of Obama's skill and, in part, it was because of Bush. But, a papered over crisis will only take you so far.

Fact is, some people just are looking for a return to "competence", and the old status quo and others need some real "Change". What happens now depends on the resolution of that.

The one thing that nobody can pull off in this climate is, "sit down and shut up". No faction of any party has that kind of power, and arrogance is no substitute.

[xchrom]

48. recommend

[Umbram]

49. ..."trying to force me and others to shut up about it"...

Oh yes, they are, you poor, poor oppressed thing. I hope they don't drag you off and muzzle you for good.

[flvegan]

50. Hopefully, Kucinich will give it another shot in 2016.

I'm hoping that Obama has all my disappointments out of the way, but I doubt it.

[Joe the Revelator]

52. This OP has been throwing around baseless, rediculous attacks on a number of democrats all week

She can not back up half of what she claims, and has no prospective of history. In short, don't waste your time here.


But if you want a laugh, ask her who the "Bushists" are in Obama's cabinet.

[WinkyDink]

56. Um, you equate Kucinich Democrats to Naderites? Okay, then.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

70. Only in the sense that both speak truth to power and they both angered me for smacking

Democrats from time to time. They were right to do so. I see that now.

[wildonion]

58. I'm disappointed another group of "progressives" post 1,000,000 threads on their

pet ideological issues, hijack every thread to their own self-interest, & resort to ad hominem attacks on everyone who doesn't toe the line on every issue they deem worthy of equating Obama with Hitler.

And for shunning gays like Melissa Etheridge who refuse to line up w/ their own small mindedness

[RetroLounge]

79. And you are now TS`d

asshat

RL

[QueenOfCalifornia]

62. Nader and Kucinich are

incomparable.

Nader is not a Democrat. Kucinich is actually, oddly enough, a DEMOCRAT.

I took plenty of heat here when I supported him. I was called a "fringe" voter.

Nice try - but even this Kucinich supporter voted for Obama in both the primary and GE.

I knew exactly what we were getting with Obama - a very shrewd politician who approaches politics like a game of chess. He is not paying attention to any of this because his mind is made up and he is already onto the next move. No one here likes the Warren choice.

BTW - praying for me is not necessary - nor is talking to fire hydrants or clouds....

[Sarah Ibarruri]

66. Yes true, but both taught me that the Democratic Party is still recovering and is still unwell

We'll be well when we grow a pair of HUGE BALLS and tell the Rick Warrens of this world to F*CK off and tnat, NO, THEY MAY NOT BE HONORED to speak in an inauguration until they become human.

[cbc5g]

65. By the reaction around here, it's almost like he was a fuckin cabinet pick

[QueenOfCalifornia]

68. You are going

to die for posting what I was thinking. :)

[w4rma]

78. No kidding. And there have been some awful Rubinite cabinet picks that deserve this attention. (nt)

[makinguphumans]

83. Warren gets a coveted NATIONAL STAGE!! for his bigotry!!