When I see and hear Rick and Obama

[warrior1]

fighting to change the laws that outlaws gay and lesbians the right to marry, etc., then I will feel that the pain I'm feeling now will have been worth it. I'm not holding my breath.

[Shiver]

1. Obama opposed Prop 8

He voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment in '06. Was against DOMA in '96 and still is. He has also stated that he will oppose any attempted Constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.

[NYC_SKP]

2. "Rick and Obama"?

I'm confused.

Reply #1 explains Obama's stand on it, he will fight to prevent an federal legislation that bans gay and lesbian's right to marry.

Rick, if you mean Warren, is not likely to fight for the right of gays and lesbians to marry.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. I think he is referring to all those photos of the two so friendly with one another

Obama even mentioned him in his book and has now offered him that most important of positions in the inauguration: the invocation.

[NYC_SKP]

9. OK, thanks for the clarification.

I don't get it really, Obama's pick.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

10. I really don't get it either. I'm very saddened by the whole thing nt

[Fearless]

13. In reality...

It's just an olive branch on a benign invocationary task. What I know for sure:

1. It has neither guaranteed nor eliminated Obama's reelection.
2. It has no bearing on policy.
3. It's Obama's party and he gets to invite who he wants whether we like it or not and it isn't a big enough issue to force him to change his mind.
and 4. People like hearing their own voices.

[Shiver]

11. The most important place in the inauguration

Is the person assuming the office of the presidency.

Yes, the invocation is a place of honour, and yes, it sucks to high hell that a dick like Warren is doing it. But it is no more important than the benediction, which is being performed by an icon of the African American civil rights movement and supporter of same-sex marriage. It is no more important than the performance by Aretha Franklin, another voice of African American civil rights and musical legend. It is no more important than the performances of Yo-Yo Ma, a U.N. Ambassador of Peace and world-renowned cellist; Gabriela Montero, a classical pianist of the highest order; and Itzhak Perlman, one of the greatest violinists of our time and multiple Grammy Award winner.

The invocation lasts three minutes (or two, or five, or one and a half - reports vary) and will be completely overshadowed by the brilliance of the musicians listed above (have you heard Yo-Yo Ma? His skill with the cello is a religious experience greater than Warren could ever evoke.)

And in the end, the focus of the event, the highest of honours and most important of positions, is being held by Barack Obama, as he is sworn into the office of the presidency.

That is the most important position at the inauguration.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

19. A total bigot is going to speak to us all about religion and morality, and that's

Obama's idea of the ideal person.

F*CK THAT.

[Shiver]

20. No, he is going to give a short blessing on Obama's presidency.

Maybe he'll say a few other things; I've never really paid attention to the invocation before, so I don't really know.

But don't let that keep you from ignoring everything I say because you can't offer a legitimate counter-argument. And don't let it keep you from pulling shit out of your ass.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

22. If he doesn't remove this bigot-homophobe piece of amoral trash from the inauguration

It will be a very clear statement of what he believes and I will behave accordingly as far as my support.

[Shiver]

23. He has stated that he does not agree with Warren.

His positions and voting record show that he does not agree with Warren. What you are claiming to see is what you want to see, because you want to be disappointed. Why that is, I don't know.

You're using guilt-by-association logic, which is, as proven in the GE, an utter fallacy.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

24. If he thinks it's a piggish action, why is he having the pig pray for the nation?

Is Obama insane?

[KittyWampus]

15. LOL! "That most important of positons"? YOU HAVE TO BE FUCKING KIDDING.

The Invocation is now "the most important of positions"?

Sorry, I may have had differences of how to express my distaste for Warren, his views and his speaking.

But that is a truly mockable statement.

I am certain that this is the first time you've ever given a crap about the Invocation.

And at any rate, the most important position would be the actual SWEARING IN.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

18. This asshole is being asked to pray for Obama before the nation, to pray for all of us before the

nation, to give us all a speech, and he's a FUCKING AMORAL BIGOT, A SEXIST A-H, AND A HOMOPHOBE. That's obviously not enough for you is it?

[MadBadger]

3. Obama was against Prop 8

So what you talkin about Willis?

[warrior1]

4. Some think that Obama knows

what he's doing reaching out his hand to this man, like he can change his mind on these issue. I think he's naive.

Hell, he may have not even thought about the gay hate this man spews when he asked him to do the prayer.

[FrenchieCat]

5. Holding one's breath is never a good idea.....

I don't know about Warren, but Obama is a front line soldier for all of us. He will make good on his promises......and do it well.

As far as Rick Warren, most in mainstream until last week knew him only as a pastor who had written a book that many in the mainstream world own. I was talking to a College senior (a friend of my daughters) who attends U.C. Santa Cruz (one of the most liberal campus in California) and who was raised in Berkeley, and who's Mom is quite the French liberal Hippy. I asked her if she knew of the man. She didn't know him by name, but when I told her that he wad the writer of the "Purpose Driven Life", she said she had that book.

My point is that most in mainstream didn't buy this book of Warren's because of his views on Gay Marriage, and had no idea. Now that he's been exposed to the general public, it will give them pause. I think that the publicity of the discontent on his role in giving the invocation will end up hurting him more than he yet knows....not for the act itself, but for the light that it has shined upon him. If he doesn't change his tune in the near future about his extremist fundamentalist view, it will narrow his mainstream following. Some think that his 2 minutes at the inauguration could give him more power......but I wouldn't bank on it. Sometimes events have unintended consequences.....sometimes those consequences aren't the ones expected.

[BeFree]

6. Yep

In my opinion that is why Obama chose Warren. Not only has Warren been proclaimed the leader of the fundies, he is swayable. Obama knew all that. Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't appreciate Obama.

I believe all this is by design, but don't tell anyone. Hell they wouldn't believe it anyway.

[FrenchieCat]

8. That's what I love about Time......

it tells more as we go than any theory generated on the outset.

Disclosure: My SIL's church did home group meetings using the Purpose Driven Life, which comes with video, workbooks, done in a one day weekly/5 weeks seminar a couple of years ago. That is members invited 5 friends into their home for 5 weeks, and they go through the book together, doing exercises from the workbooks, etc... I believe that thousands of mainstream churches (her's was Methodist) have done these. I know because she invited me, and so I participated in it.....and I didn't know diddly squat about Warren's views on many things until right after the Prop 8 vote. And that's my point....many don't or didn't have a clue.

This will end up being very interesting to watch as it enfolds, but I'm leaning to believing that there are many who will not be buying into what he has to sell anymore. Most folks in mainstream aren't interested in controversy. They liked the Book's message, not so much Warren. If they feel like perhaps the book is financing extremist views, he is just about to lose millions of people that he could have led. If he changes his tune as an extremist, he may save himself. Mainstream folks like helpful universal messages from spiritual leaders, not so much extremist politicized agenda. That's why he has risen as high as he has and is deemed "popular". Not because of his now known extreme views, but because of the other stuff.

[BeFree]

12. That's what I've been saying

And I've even been told that he doesn't need to be exposed!!

Well, he's being exposed, folks are learning the truth, and we can thank Obama for lighting the fire.

When all is said and done, I believe the fundies are going to be shamed into admitting that all this anti-this and anti-that stuff is not worth pursuing any longer and their power will whither. Then ol BeFree will be happy. I want them to go away.

I really believe Obama has engineered all this. Why? Because it is the right thing to do: control the fundies and get them out of government, out of our bedrooms and off our backs.

It is the right thing to do and I've been praying for it for years. This is gonna be real Change.

gOBama

[FrenchieCat]

16. Well, I don't quite buy this as a plan of Obama's in the way that you have termed it.....

I do believe that Obama firmly believes that common ground is how to get things done. He believes that if he can get more mainstream Americans that tend to vote against their best interests to start listening and supporting his programs and policies, he will be able to pass the legislation that he promised quickly and effectively with minimum obtruction from the GOP. What I think he is trying to make sure of is to have enough folks who may support the Republican Party feel vested in his presidency, and how it is linked to their livelyhood. I think he wants them on our side in order to have them excert pressure against their congresscritters, in case they, the critters attempt to obstruct and twist facts. He wants those millions to see him as fair and reasonable....and in that way, the GOP congress can start looking the worse for it in contrast.

[BeFree]

17. Well

No one else has bought either.
That's ok. It really needn't be well known, but mark my words, it will come to pass. The fundies are going down.

[Solon]

21. So you are hoping that his greed will outweigh his homophobia?

I'm not sure whether that will happen or not, but I do wonder how those same folks you described will feel about Obama for putting a man with such extreme views up to give the Invocation. If it becomes such a big deal for them not to buy Warren's books anymore, it may negatively affect their opinion of Obama as well.

[KittyWampus]

14. IMO, your post is one of the most beautiful, reasonable and laudable on this subject yet

May I offer you a cyber-hug?

:hug: