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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:08 PM
Original message
When Warren speaks, it will be before Obama is sworn in.. it is almost
Edited on Tue Dec-23-08 07:10 PM by peacetrain
symbolic of the old neo cons passing away.. I remember reading about Rove and the rovian plan to use fundamentalists and evangelicals to win the White House. It was as callous and ruthless a manipulation of voters as I have ever witnessed.

Warren will be the last speaker of that movement and genre.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Then Obama will be sworn in, and Rev. Lowery will be giving voice to a new way of working with people, including the religious communities.

Symbols are important. Just as the bible of Lincoln being used in and of itself, brings us into a historical moment with no words.


______________________________________________________________________________________________________

That is how I view this, a symbolic changing of how we do things.

EDIT.. misspelled Rev Lowery's name



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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. I like your view peacetrain. I'm on board! n/t
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. I noticed the timing as well.
The last official prayer of the Bush administration.
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Polly Hennessey Donating Member (274 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Obama sworn in
That is a good way to look at it. It is symbolic and you made it a little easier to sit through the Warren invocation.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. And then butterflies will descend and we will all join hands and sing The Internationale
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
27. "the sky's will open, the lights will come down, celestial choirs
will be singing and everyone will know we should do the right thing and the world will be perfect" Hillary Clinton, February 24th 2008, Rhode Island College.

:rofl:
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. View it any way you want. I view it as a big slap in the face.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. I am hosting Christmas dinner this year.
We usually put out snacks and hang out in the living room talking before dinner. Then we gather at the table and say grace before the dinner officially starts.

I'm already readying my pre-dinner snacks. Thawed liver that's been in my freezer a few years. Technically it's way beyond its consumption date and it's covered with freezer burn, and it was already left out on the counter a few days before I froze it if I recall correctly - and we had a power outage at one point for a few days where it thawed out but I refroze it again since then. But I don't think anyone will be offended by me serving that up to them because it's technically before the dinner even starts. It's sort of like "this is how things were, but then Christ was born." I think people will appreciate the symbolism of me serving it to them when they come over to celebrate.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Push your guests over in the snow as they arrive.
It will be symbolic of how forlorn the world was before Christmas. Then, after dinner, send them home with a nice tray of cookies to end everything nicely.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I do make a mean snickerdoodle.
:P
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Do you push them over in the snow...
before or after the Airing of Grievances?
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Good luck with that
Let's hope that your guests aren't a bunch of evil anti-religion ptomaine-ophobes.
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Diamonique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is a great way to look at this. I'm with you.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-23-08 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
9. Right, but the mainstream media has other plans...

Not only is Rick Warren's book being promoted, they are tauting him as the next Billy Graham and calling him "America's Minister". I hope we're not in for more surprises.
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
12. I like your view. n/t
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GrannyK Donating Member (226 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
13. I rec'd this because I agree with you. And may I add?
We sometimes get so stuck in our belief systems that we fail to see the signs and symbols of change. And often, just juxtaposing two belief systems often gives people a new perspective of their, and other belief systems. This can be an opportunity for some who are stuck in the old paradigm to get a glimpse of a new model for society.

Let's shine more light on Rev.Lowery, he deserves it and our country NEEDS it.
Thanks for adding a positive focus.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
14. gotta write down all these justifications for putting bigotry on display and making poor choices.nt
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Do you think...
we will surpass the number of justifications issued about the iraq war?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. I'm with you.
I worked in an Alcoholic Rehab center in the 90s, and thought I had heard the pinnacle of creative rationalization for the unacceptable.
This OP just raised the bar.

Had Warren been appointed by Bush, the OP might have a point.
But the bigot receiving the honor of the first act of the change administration was not appointed by Bush. He was given the honor by Obama.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. BULL ROAR!
rationalization like hell.. I was commenting on the irony of it. Take that log out of your eye before you start commenting on the toothpick in mine.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. toothpick?
Irony?
Log?

"BULL ROAR"
:rofl:
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Would you prefer the term HORSE HOCKEY?..
I am nothing if not obliging, especially at the holidays!
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. If you are going to try calling me out.. you better be on a firmer ground.
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Vanje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
15. So while Warren winds up his invocation......
Edited on Wed Dec-24-08 12:38 PM by sheeptramp
....a great big hooked cane comes out of the stage wings, and gaffs him off the stage, like in Bugs Bunny cartoons.

Or maybe after his prayer, Warren can take a seat at one of those carnival dunk tanks.

THAT would be symbolic!
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Froward69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. I see it your way.
Edited on Wed Dec-24-08 01:00 PM by Froward69
a portion of everyone else will skip the whole thing, because of RW's 2 minutes.

as we have been working for nothing else these last few years but gay equality... :crazy: :sarcasm:

Health care
Iraq
Guantanamo
economy
Working poor
Infrastructure
world's respect
accountability

all are nothing in Importance to RW making a prayer... :banghead:
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. The good thing about hitting your toe with a hammer is it feels good when you stop.
I am not happy, cannot be happy, about Warren speaking. There is little I can do now about it. If I accept it will happen, I can still be very unhappy about it. It will be nice when it is over.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-24-08 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. Thanks for pointing out the symbolic
significance of the timing, peacetrain.
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nannah Donating Member (690 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
26. kicked but too late to recommend
i really appreciate your perspective; it is consistent with the subtlety of obama;s campaign.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kick!
:thumbsup:
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
29. Careful you don't pull a muscle
twisting all that rationalization.

:eyes:

RL
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. See post 20
:eyes:
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. No thanks, seen enough.
adios.

:puke:

RL
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Just as I figured... NT
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RetroLounge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Ironic Picture
Peace Train author wanted Rushdie dead.

_|_

RL
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Peace Train author wanted Rushdie dead?? what an odd and strange
post that is.. And that refers to what?
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Cat Stevens, aka "Yusuf Islam."
There. Now google....
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #36
40. I know who cat stevens is.. and that has what to do with this?
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-25-08 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. Well now you have hurt my feelings.. I thought you were going to explain to me.
the strange post.. and then you left.. like the wind.. gone.. oh well.. I guess I will have to carry on not knowing the meaning behind the post.. so quickly we come together and then part.. Is this where I :puke:
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. He's referring to the interview
where Cat Stevens (Yusuf Islam), the person who wrote "Peace Train," said that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, "I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing."

http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-cat.html?_r=4&oref=slogin&oref=login

More from the article which describes the interview: "The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments. "

The aftermath - from wikipedia: "After Stevens made comments that 10,000 Maniacs lead singer Natalie Merchant found offensive regarding author Salman Rushdie, Merchant led an effort to have "Peace Train" removed from all copies of the album in the U.S. in 1989."

----------
Out of curiosity - your OP reads as if you think this will be the last time Obama gives the national stage to a right wing homophobic bigot. Is that really what you believe, given Obama's history?
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Please see my post 20..
Edited on Fri Dec-26-08 11:25 AM by peacetrain
EDIT:.. I am not being snarky.. just it was an observation of irony on how things can cosmically fit together....
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. I saw you pointing to that before.
To be honest, I'm not getting it. If you OP was meant to be ironic, it was so subtle as to be completely lost to me, even WITH post 20 added in. Really, post 20 made no sense to me at all because your OP reads exactly like a rationalization from what I can tell.

Sorry if I am being exceptionally dense here, but I suspect I am not the only one.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. the irony or how things fit together.. it is ironic to me..
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. Not getting into one of those circular firing sqauds going on around here.
But rationalization of what?
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. The OP read to me like you were rationalizing
the selection of a homophobic misogynistic fundie bigot to ring in the new presidency by saying it was symbolic of ending the old presidency.

I don't see the irony because Warren is part of a pattern of Obama's decisions to honor/give national stages to people using the cover of religion to promote homophobia and bigotry, and I have no reason to think that's going to change.

It's a continuation of both Bush and Obama promoting fundie bigots. It's not symbolic of ending anything, it's just more of the same.
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #44
45. Again, it was ironic to me.. how things work out..
It still is. I have no idea what you are talking about rationalizing.
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kywildcat Donating Member (529 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
37. Kick-thank you for this. n/t
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