Harvey Firestien wants to spoils this for the rest of us!!!

[ronnykmarshall]

http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/Fierstein_calls_Obama_1223.html


Fierstein calls Obama a coward

by PageOneQ



Openly gay stage and screen actor Harvey Fierstein had pointed words on his Facebook page for the President-elect over his choice of Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren to deliver the invocation on Inauguration Day:

"A couple of boys were calling my best friend a faggot one unhappy day at summer camp. Courses of action seemed slim to my adolescent mind. I could stand up for Jack branding myself a fag as well and insuring myself a miserable summer, or I could join in with the name callers, lose my closest friend, but assure my standing with the majority. I sacrificed my friend on the altar of popularity. I don't think I need to tell you that political expediency was a terrific short-term solution but a long-term nightmare. My summer concluded uneventfully but none of those boys became my friend or did me any favors. And forty years later I still feel the loss of Jack along with a piece of my self respect that I can never win back. Mine was an act of cowardice and betrayal.


Can't those fags just "move on"?????

[Neshanic]

1. Harvey hits a home run.

[Egnever]

4. Harvey projects his own shame onto Obama is more like it.

[tbyg52]

54. You're kidding, right?

You're comparing an adolescent in a time a lot more homophobic than the present to a President-elect who should have had this jerk vetted?

Edited to add the bolded part.

Edited again to add a link to what I had to say re another post on Fierstein.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8029242&mesg_id=8029867

[Egnever]

2. Oh you missed the thread three post below yours?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8029242&mesg_id=8029242

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

3. Those pesky gays, again

[AnnieBW]

5. Harvey should do a Rick Warren Impersonation

at the Inaugural. :D

[MountainLaurel]

9. That would rock

:evilgrin:

[Raster]

23. Maybe Mathew Broderick would volunteer to be Warren's love interest.

The Brokeback Mountain KKKristian Church.

[NJmaverick]

6. poor Harvey is losing his grip

Pretty sure Obama isn't joining in on attacking anyone. So Mr Firestien's point is as inaccurate as it is pathetic.

[Skittles]

7. wrong

dead wrong

[NJmaverick]

10. Sorry but truth is NEVER wrong, it just unpleasant

especially for those that base their opinions on raw emotions instead of logic and reason

[sniffa]

15. You were a lot cooler when you were on your War On Cliques

[NJmaverick]

18. We have different values

I care about what's right and the truth, not being cool or popular. I am sure there must be some common ground, perhaps an appreciation of our fine President elect.

[Bluebear]

25. 'I care about what's right '

"As long as I decide what's right"

[NJmaverick]

27. You have shown no signs of caring about what's right

just about your feelings.

[Bluebear]

29. LOL

[NJmaverick]

32. Perhaps you can give me one link to just one post where you

are worried about something greater than your self interest

[racaulk]

19. LOL Seriously.

I'm still expecting him to call me "Your Majesty" at any time.

:rofl:

[NJmaverick]

28. Post 26 applies to you as well

[racaulk]

35. Indeed.

I found your "your majesty" comment to be a personal attack on me.

Perhaps Post 26 also applies to you.

[NJmaverick]

37. what is this "your majesty" comment you keep talking about?

[racaulk]

43. How soon we forget.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=7702363#7702402

[NJmaverick]

46. Wow that post was from May 2. I am impressed that you remember my quotes

I must have made quite an impression on you. Did you bookmark it, so you could read my thoughts everyday? If you like, when I have some time, I can make you some sort of thought of the day calendar.

Still if you were honest you might have looked at your own remarks and admitted that you were the one actually attacking with this little simplist bit of tripe:

"The rest of us will just go on laughing at you because you look whiny and pathetic"


I would love for you to explain how you feel this rightous anger of being insulted. I mean "your majesty" seems pretty tame compared to your rather crude and borish insults.

[racaulk]

68. To be honest, I don't wait on baited breath to read your posts, or anyone else's.

But on that day, May 2, you made a total ass out of yourself in the Lounge. Something like that is quite memorable. It's also memorable when someone goes out of their way to tell you that they have placed you on their Ignore list. It doesn't happen to me often, so those that do it tend to stand out in my mind.

And my quote was only in response to your angry posts in that thread, because you were acting like a whiny, petulant child. In fact, your entire OP was to whine because you felt so insulted that someone posted a GDP thread in the Lounge. Teh drama!

I would love for you to explain how you feel this rightous (sic) anger of being insulted.

If you read above in THIS thread, I didn't say I felt any "righteous anger" due to the "your majesty" comment. I said it was a personal attack. And it was.

[NJmaverick]

78. You want honesty, it's weird and more than a bit creepy

for you to still remember some toss away line from over 7 months ago (made even worse by the "how QUICKLY we forget" remark).

[racaulk]

91. I gave you two different reasons why that thread was memorable to me.

Neither of which, IMHO, is that out of the ordinary. Much less "weird" or "creepy." But hey, draw whatever conclusions you wish. It wouldn't be the first time.

[Vanje]

59. Me too? Huh? Me too!!??

Can post 26 apply to me too!?

[Skittles]

21. LOL

:rofl:

crawl back under your rock please

[NJmaverick]

26. LOL! Personal attacks are the sign of a weak mind

you should try sticking to the issues, maybe you will learn something.

[ronnykmarshall]

13. Oh what a shocker...

Rev. Bigot's #1 cheerleader is here to the rescue.

[NJmaverick]

22. sigh when you need to be dishonest to attack or support your opinion

you have already lost. The TRUTH is I don't care for the Rev. I think he is wrong in his views of gay marriage and homosexuality. On the other hand, I base my views on carefully reasoned logic. So I appreciate that we don't live in the black and white world of you are either with us or against us, which is favored by bush and many DUers. I take a more mature and sophisticated view of the world and appreciate that it's filled with shades of grays and conflicting ethical issues. So I weigh the benefit of reaching out and unifying the Country along with the extra clout such a gesture would give Obama and I weigh it against some hurt feelings. While I would like to have all the good and no hard feelings, live isn't fair. So you have to make a choice and I choose what is best for all Americans.

still your simplistic views are duly noted and I offer up sympathy for your hurt feelings, anger and wounded pride.

[ronnykmarshall]

34. Oh piss off.

Your sorry ass is noted for your support for Rev. Bigot. Sorry if that upsets your little world.

[NJmaverick]

36. lol! It will take a keener mind to upset me

I look at posts like yours and shake my head. I feel bad at the difficult path Obama has before him. I can't help but feel if people were willing to sacrifice and give a little tolerance for the greater good, that road would not be so difficult, treacherous and painful. Still I guess it's true, nothing worthwhile is easy to achieve.

[ronnykmarshall]

38. Yeah sacrifice.

I've put you with your shit and your so called tolerance for months.

Please keep shaking your head. Maybe some of the shit will fly out.

[NJmaverick]

39. lol! I know many people like yourself. You have the highest expectations for others

the bar is set so high, few can ever clear it. Then for youself you set it so low, you run the risk of tripping over it.

[ronnykmarshall]

42. Honey I don't risk tripping over anything.

You're just a little rat turd on the way to equality.

Be gone dear, before a house drops on your ass.

[dflprincess]

44. The greater good is not served by tolerating bigots.

"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

[NJmaverick]

49. Did we not take Stalin as an Allie in WW 2?

Shades of gray my friend, shades of gray

[dflprincess]

57. We took the U.S.S.R. as an ally in WWII to fignt what was perceived as a greater evil

- an evil that persecuted Jews and homosexuals and thought women were really nothing more than breeders. What greater evil is Obama teaming with Warren to fight?

[dflprincess]

40. Applying the equal protection clause to all Americans is an ethical issue

that falls in some gray area? I don't think so.

This is a unifying gesture? A lot of people - even those of us who have not had our civil liberties directly threatened or thwarted by Warren's brand of Christianity - are offended by this and find Obama's endorsement of it disgusting. It really seems more like something we could have expected from Bush.

[NJmaverick]

50. I'm sorry did I miss something? Did Obama enact a new law

did he appoint Warren to head some policy commission?

No, I didn't think so.


So this is about prayers, gestures and unity, not equal rights.

[dflprincess]

55. It has nothing to do with unity and everything to do with pandering

[Balderdash]

47. You're right, our feelings are hurt

but it's also about logic and reason Mr. Spock. If Obama can throw us under the bus for expediencies sake, what's to stop him from doing the same to you? And you will fully expect us, like always to be there to help carry your load. When that time comes I'm going to tell you to fuck off and get over it.

[NJmaverick]

52. No, one has to actually be thown under a bus before making that claim

When Obama enacts a bad law then you can make that claim. Otherwise it's just about hurt feelings.

As for the rest of your post, you sound like this one right wingnut I had a conversation with. Before the election he brought up Rev. Wright. I asked him what about it. He was like, "well Wright is all about black supremcy". I asked him what he thought that meant. Did he think Obama was going to have all white people rounded up an put in camps.


Your concepts are pretty much just as far out there.

[Balderdash]

64. I understand Rev. Wright and actually agree with

some of it but it certainly wasn't expedient to explain Rev. Wright to half the country so Rev Wright
wound up under the bus. Thing is, I'm not going to allow you to define me. You can label my anger as simple emotion but then I would have to define you as a bigot because emotion doesn't even come close to what LGBT people are feeling. We're feeling our entire history and we're feeling what we thought was our community telling us to wait, wait and see, sit down, don't be so messy and noisy, you're messing things up. I'm not going to shut up or sit or stop being messy and noisy. Obama is my President too and he said he wants to hear from us, he's hearing from us.

[Bluebear]

14. Talk about pathetic.

[NJmaverick]

24. See post 22 I think you will find it fitting

[Zuiderelle]

56. Wow you sure are a trip.

Maybe you should think about staying out of the GLBT forum since you obviously have issues with us.

And that was worded in a way that doesn't break DU rules, as what I really want to say to you surely would get this deleted.

[girl gone mad]

65. That analogy went right over your head.

Wooooosh.

[Creideiki]

66. Awesome avatar, but...

do you really want to duplicate his personality? I mean, House gets away with it because he's really competent.

[Beacool]

84. More like poor Obama, he doesn't have a clue.

:shrug:

[sniffa]

8. Except when he stands up for himself

against COWARDLY NAME CALLING.

[ronnykmarshall]

41. TRACY ... DON'T RUN ... YOU'RE IN HEELS!!

I guess when he's "Safe Gay" he's cool. But lord forbid if Harvey comes speaks his mind!!!

[billyoc]

11. LOVED him in Fiddler.

and he's spot on here. :hi:

[JohnnieGordon]

87. He also narrated the Oscar-winning "Life and Times of Harvey Milk"

Winner of Best Documentary that year. Good companion piece for "Milk."

[Bluebear]

12. He will NOT ruin this for us!!!1

[sniffa]

16. .

:rofl:

[IndianaJones]

17. I like Harvey. nt.

[dana_b]

51. me too

although this has nothing to do with the thread... he was great in Mrs. Doubtfire

[racaulk]

20. Harvey is such a whiner.

:sarcasm:

[jonnyblitz]

30. OH NO NO NO NO NO NO NO HE ISN"T !!11

:sarcasm:

[sam kane]

31. home run.

sad but true.

[PeaceNikki]

33. Yay! K&R

[TheKentuckian]

45. I think he misses the point entirely but certainly understand why he may feel as he does

I don't think (know, he just won) Obama selected Warren to avoid being ostracized and in politics popularity is power.

Symbolism is a tool to Obama and he will likely step on left toes continually in this kind of way to buy little bits of capital to accomplish real things.
I can live with that but I'm a similar type kat and would do very similar things if I thought I had the game.

[polichick]

48. I see it the way Harvey does - Obama even chose THE most popular...

Evangelican minister.

[tbyg52]

53. Hooray for Harvey! nt

[pnorman]

58. I've been openly critical of what I believe to be the hijacking of DU by a single subset of it.

I've also caught some flack for it (almost all of it asinine ankle-biting, from someone I'd guessed to be a closet Log-Cabin Republican).

"And forty years later I still feel the loss of Jack along with a piece of my self respect that I can never win back. Mine was an act of cowardice and betrayal." But I can relate to the agony of realizing that old half-forgotten episodes in one's youth, were nothing but instances of Moral Cowardice. The shame of that will linger to my grave. I'm sure that most if not all here have had similar thoughts. And that cowardice and sense of betrayal would cover many more situation well beyond the OP.

Having said that, I see absolutely NO direct relevance to Obama. He is the President-Elect of the entire Nation (as well as the sincere hope of the entire planet!) So cut him some slack for his First Hundred Days (today is Day Minus 28), and go easy with this arrogant and self-righteous micro-managing! We've ALL waited 8 long years for this coming Inauguration Ceremony. So let's rejoice! We've earned it!

pnorman

[Zuiderelle]

60. Aw jeez... Yeah, let's rejoice at being slapped around.

:eyes:

[Bluebear]

62. "A single subset" - why not come right out and say it?

[racaulk]

69. Psssst...he meant to say "stupid queers"...pass it on... n/t

[Bluebear]

71. Got it. nt

[mondo joe]

63. We've all waited 8 long years.

But we didn't wait 8 years to honor a bigot.

Some of us didn't, anyway.

[GOPisEvil]

70. Do you know how this translates to our GLBT brothers and sisters?

"You gays sit down and shut up. You can have your rights if and when we're good and ready."

I cannot claim that to be the intent of your post as I have not taken up residence in your head, but I can tell you that is how a lot of people are taking your post.

[PVnRT]

79. Single subset?

Yeah, if only "those people" would just shut up and quit whining.

[Zuiderelle]

61. Go Harvey!!

:applause:

[xchrom]

67. recommend

[zulchzulu]

72. No mention of Reverend Lowery, Harvey?

Aww... how cute.

:wow:

[Bluebear]

73. I will NOT have Harvey ruin this for you!!!!1111

I will NOT have Harvey ruin this for you!!!!1111
I will NOT have Harvey ruin this for you!!!!1111
I will NOT have Harvey ruin this for you!!!!1111
I will NOT have Harvey ruin this for you!!!!1111

[mondo joe]

82. What difference doyou think Lowery makes, exactly?

[QC]

92. Because this is just like math: 1+ -1 = 0.

Therefore the whole thing is a wash.

:silly:

[xchrom]

74. kick

[xchrom]

75. kick

[xchrom]

76. kick

[xchrom]

77. kick

[xchrom]

80. kick

[NorthernSpy]

81. Fierstein wants Obama to heal his various regrets and emotional wounds...

But that is not generally something that an elected official can do.

[grantcart]

83. No matter how much you disagree with Obama's strategy of picking Warren for the

invocation it is a lie to call Obama a coward.


The man has made nothing but courageous choices his whole life, not the least of which was walking away from the automatic Supreme Court internship and the millions he could have leaveraged for that to work as a community organizer.

Smart and courageous Obama has a strategy.

I don't even disagree with the strategy just think that he could have made the symbolic move he wanted without picking Warren.

[immoderate]

85. Raise those voices. This is all good!

Barack wants you to holler. (IMO)

--IMM

[ClarkUSA]

86. Another rabid primary supporter of Hillary's throws Obama under the bus. Where was he during DOMA?

:eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

88. Here's another fella that supports Rick Warren's selection

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/cartoon/2008/dec/24/pope-benedict-gay-rights

[Larkspur]

89. Yes, Obama is a coward

and has poor choice in religious leaders. Warren is not only a homophobe but he is also a misogynist.

Warren is a divisive person and the wrong one to say the invocation at Obama's inauguration. Can't Obama do a better job vetting religious leaders who will take a public role on his behalf or request?

[jumptheshadow]

90. But, but...

stop raining on everybody else's parade, Ronny! Take that kick in your gut like a real man!

:sarcasm: