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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 10:23 AM
Original message
Obama's New Year's Message To The Troops Should Be ....

"You're all coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan soon after I take office."

It should not be:

"I'm taking you out of Iraq and sending you to Afghanistan".
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ok, now, why do you think this?
I'm ALL for improving the lives of the Afghani farmer and his family so he doesn't see Al Qaeda as his only ally. We can't do that unless we've got boots on the ground.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I see .... just like Iraq?
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Al Qaeda wasn't IN Iraq....
... until we showed up. :)

As wonderful as it would be to bring everyone home .... from ALL over the globe .... it's just not practical.

As long as they are digging irrigation ditches and not conducting air strikes, I can deal with it.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. How about just bringing out troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan for now

The resistance to the U.S. occupation in Afghanistan is growing from all segments and political organizations within their nation.

They want us out.

You want to stay.

It's not your country and you should have no say in that matter.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Because .....
... the desire to want to improve the human condition is not something that we should limit to our borders.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. The U.S. Government Isn't In Afghanistan To Improve Conditions
and is not improving conditions for the average person.

Do you really believe that right-wing propaganda?
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. lol, right wing you say?
"We've got to really ramp up our development approach to Afghanistan. Part of the problem that we've had is that the average Afghan farmer hasn't seen any improvement in HIS life. We haven't seen the kinds of infrastructure improvements. We haven't seen the security improvements. We haven't seen the reduction in narco-trafficking. We haven't seen a reliance on rule of law in Afghanistan that would make people feel confident that the central government can deliver on its promises. If we combine effective development, more effective military work as well as more effective diplomacy then I think we can stabilize the situation. Our number one goal has to be that it cannot be used as a base to launch attacks against the United States."
~ Barack Obama on "Meet the Press" 12/7/08

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/12/obama_meets_the_press_on_his_n.html

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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Afghanistan Women's Rights Leader Speaks Out Against Occupation
July 31, 2008

An Interview with Sonali Kolhatkar
What's Going on in Afghanistan
By MIKE WHITNEY

About Sonali Kolhatkar

Sonali is host and co-producer of a one hour daily radio show called Uprising on KPFK (90.7 fm in Los Angeles and 98.7 fm in Santa Barbara), a listener-sponsored community radio station, which is part of the Pacifica network. Sonali's radio show airs from 8 am to 9 am weekdays and is a public affairs political news magazine. Sonali is also co-director and a spokesperson for the Afghan Women's Mission and speaks widely on college campuses, community fora, and conferences. She is co-author of "Bleeding Afghanistan: Washington, Warlords, and the Propaganda of Silence." She also pursues social, activist and artistic endeavors which include web design, political writing and organizing, song writing and singing, painting and cooking.




This is a brief excerpt of her comments in the interview:

Sonali Kolhatkar:

The US will also have to address the country’s widespread poverty and provide long-term economic solutions that give Afghans hope for the future. The US will also have to create viable alternatives to the production of heroin, so that poor farmers don't have to depend on the sale of illicit narcotics to survive. That means Bush will have to support multi-lateral peacekeepers to protect the Afghan people from the Northern Alliance and Taliban. Most importantly, the US will have to end the occupation and withdraw its troops. But of course, that probably won’t happen any time soon. After all, the real goal of the invasion was vengeance for 9/11. All the promises of liberation and democracy were just a PR-ploy to make Americans feel better about seeking revenge.

I think the primary goal of the war was always vengeance, but the neocons also wanted to pave the way for an attack on Iraq. Bush wanted to go to Iraq even before 9/11. Unfortunately for him, Al Qaeda was holed up in Afghanistan so he had to invade there first and build support for attacking Iraq. It's true that the long-term goals could be military bases (John McCain said last year that he wanted permanent military bases in Afghanistan), and pipeline corridors (Clinton was most closely linked to supporting pipeline contracts between US corporations like UNOCAL and the Taliban before 2000). But I’m not sure how much Bush cared about those long-term objectives even though future presidents will surely capitalize on them.

As far as the occupation goes, people were somewhat supportive of it originally, but as conditions have deteriorated, they have begun to see the presence of foreign troops as a big part of the problem. I would say that a majority of Afghans now want the US and NATO to leave as soon as possible.
Sonali Kolhatkar: It's hard to understand the nature of the anti-US resistance, but it's a very important issue. Unfortunately,the media coverage only makes it more confusing. The fighters that are called the “Taliban” are actually a mix of "former" Taliban and newly enlisted Pashtun fighters trained in Pakistan. Many of them are just disgruntled Afghan civilians whose families and loved ones have been killed and/or tortured by US/NATO forces. Recruiting is always easy when you can show that foreign soldiers are killing more civilians that the "so-called" enemy. But we should be careful to not glorify the resistance. It is strictly fundamentalist and would not be a good option for Afghans in terms of future leadership. The vast majority of Afghans are moderate Muslims who strongly disagree with the Taliban's extremist ideology, but they have joined the struggle to bring an end to the occupation. But, of course, their troubles won't disappear just because the American forces leave. They'll still be stuck with the Taliban and the warlords. When the Soviet occupation ended in the late 1980s, the US-backed warlords began their reign of terror on the people between 1992 to 1996. That could happen again. These same warlords (or Taliban) could once again spread misery and death across Afghanistan. War is an entropic force that cannot be undone by simply hitting a rewind button.

There are always less bloody alternatives, but withdrawal is the first step in a long and complex process. As I’ve said before, Afghanistan’s solutions do not fit neatly on a placard. Perhaps that's why anti-war activists don’t take a clear stand against this war. The withdrawal of US/NATO forces must be accompanied by other developments, like disempowering the warlords in parliament who have a long history of US-supported impunity. This disempowering must include an "Afghan-led" disarmament of their private militias; removing them from political power, and holding them accountable for their past crimes through criminal prosecution of some sort.

Please read the entire and very informative interview at:
http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney07312008.html

And you can find out more about the Afghan Women's Mission at:
http://afghanwomensmission.org/index.php



Also visit the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) website at:

http://www.rawa.org/index.php

RAWA is the oldest political/social organization of Afghan women struggling for peace, freedom, democracy and women's rights in fundamentalism-blighted Afghanistan since 1977. I don't recall Obama, Pelosi or Reid indicating their support to either of the above women's organizations in Afghanistan.



-------------------------------


Here's an excerpt from the RAWA statement released on International Women's Day, March 8, 2008:

Women's Rights Catastrophe in Afghanistan

After the US and allies invaded Afghanistan around seven years ago, they misleadingly claimed of bringing peace and democracy and liberating Afghan women from the bleeding fetters of the Taliban. But in reality Afghan women are still burning voraciously in the inferno of fundamentalism. Women are exchanged with dogs, girls are gang-raped, men in the Jehadi-dominated society kill their wives viciously and violently, burn them by throwing hot water, cut off their nose and toes, innocent women are stoned to death and other heinous crimes are being committed. But the mafia government of Mr. Karzai is tirelessly trying to conciliate with the criminals and award medals to those who should be prosecuted for their crimes and lootings.

The true nature of the US “war on terror” drama has been exposed today and we witness that they are killing thousands of our innocent people under the name of “fighting terrorists” while on the other hand they are busy in dealing with the barbaric fascist Taliban trying to gloss some of them as “moderates” in order to share power with them. These treacherous acts of demagogy have revealed it once again to our people and to the world that the US government and its allies were just pursuing their strategic, economic and political gains in Afghanistan and pushing our people to increasing destitution and disasters. Installing the “Northern Alliance” brutal warlords on power and changing Afghanistan into the center of the world drug mafia, have been the first and foremost objectives of their wrong policies.

RAWA from the very first days stated that no country will grant freedom and democracy to another country and today this reality is evident to all. The US disguised the dead rats of yesterday with suits and ties thus released them like wild wolves on our people and are doing nothing about the current crimes, violation of human rights, looting of millions dollars of aid by warlords and corrupt NGOs. If the billions of dollars of aid directed in the name of reconstruction were not poured in the pockets of criminals in the parliament and cabinet, natural hazards like freezing winter would have not taken so many lives today. Even if a small portion of that money was spent for the relief of people, the life conditions of our miserable people, particularly women would have not been so tragic.

Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA) once again proclaims that all gloomy days and miseries of our country have roots in the existence of fundamentalist forces be it Jehadi or Taliban styles and as long as this filthy virus is not removed from the body of our country, our nation and country will never see the light of happiness and development.

You can read the entire statement of RAWA at:
http://www.rawa.org/events/mar8-2008_e.htm


RAWA Celebrates the International Women’s Day
1,500 men and women participated in the event







And here's some information about RAWA which I admit I'm impressed with not having any knowledge about the organization until very recently.
This is their statement on their history and objectives:

RAWA, the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan, was established in Kabul, Afghanistan, in 1977 as an independent political/social organization of Afghan women fighting for human rights and for social justice in Afghanistan. The founders were a number of Afghan woman intellectuals under the sagacious leadership of Meena who in 1987 was assassinated in Quetta, Pakistan, by Afghan agents of the then KGB in connivance with fundamentalist band of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar . RAWA’s objective was to involve an increasing number of Afghan women in social and political activities aimed at acquiring women’s human rights and contributing to the struggle for the establishment of a government based on democratic and secular values in Afghanistan. Despite the suffocating political atmosphere, RAWA very soon became involved in widespread activities in different socio-political arenas including education, health and income generation as well as political agitation.

Before the Moscow-directed coup d’état of April 1978 in Afghanistan, RAWA’s activities were confined to agitation for women’s rights and democracy, but after the coup and particularly after the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in December 1979, RAWA became directly involved in the war of resistance. In contradistinction to the absolute majority of the vaunted Islamic fundamentalist "freedom fighters" of the anti-Soviet war of resistance, RAWA from the outset advocated democracy and secularism. Despite the horrors and the political oppression, RAWA’s appeal and influence grew in the years of the Soviet occupation and a growing number of RAWA activists were sent to work among refugee women in Pakistan. For the purpose of addressing the immediate needs of refugee women and children, RAWA established schools with hostels for boys and girls, a hospital for refugee Afghan women and children in Quetta, Pakistan with mobile teams. In addition, it conducted nursing courses, literacy courses and vocational training courses for women.

Demonstrations against the Soviet invaders and their stooges and later on against the fundamentalists, and unrelenting exposure of their treason and heinous crimes has been a hallmark of RAWA’s political activities. It was in consequence of its anti-Soviet occupationist struggle and agitation that RAWA was marked for annihilation by the Soviets and their cronies, while the Islamic fundamentalists vented their wrath on our organisation for our pro-democracy, pro-secularist and anti-fundamentalist stance. Our uncompromising attitude against these two enemies of our people has cost us dear, as witnessed by the martyrdom of our founding leader and a large number of our key activists, but we have unswervingly stood, and continue to stand, by our principles despite the deadly blows that we have been dealt.

Since the overthrow of the Soviet-installed puppet regime in 1992 the focus of RAWA’s political struggle has been against the fundamentalists’ and the ultra-fundamentalist Taliban’s criminal policies and atrocities against the people of Afghanistan in general and their incredibly ultra-male-chauvinistic and anti-woman orientation in particular. Apart from the political challenges facing RAWA, tremendous social and relief work amongst unimaginably traumatised women and children lie ahead of us, but unfortunately we do not at the moment enjoy any support from international NGOs or governments, therefore we can't run our humanitarian projects as effective as we wish due to lack of funds..

The US "War on terrorism" removed the Taliban regime in October 2001, but it has not removed religious fundamentalism which is the main cause of all our miseries. In fact, by reinstalling the warlords in power in Afghanistan, the US administration is replacing one fundamentalist regime with another. The US government and Mr.Karzai mostly rely on Northern Alliance criminal leaders who are as brutal and misogynist as the Taliban.

RAWA believes that freedom and democracy can’t be donated; it is the duty of the people of a country to fight and achieve these values. Under the US-supported government, the sworn enemies of human rights, democracy and secularism have gripped their claws over our country and attempt to restore their religious fascism on our people.

Whenever fundamentalists exist as a military and political force in our injured land, the problem of Afghanistan will not be solved. Today RAWA's mission for women's rights is far from over and we have to work hard for establishment of an independent, free, democratic and secular Afghanistan. We need the solidarity and support of all people around the world.


-------------------------------

August 18, 2008
Is Malalai Joya the Bravest Woman in Afghanistan?
An Afghan Woman Who Stands Up to the Warlords
By FAROOQ SULEHRIA

Afghanistan lives in the fear of the US-sponsored war lords. These hated warlords are not scared by the Taliban-monster raising its head in the south. Ironically, they live in the fear of an unarmed girl in her late twenties: Malalai Joya. To silence Joya’s defiant voice, war lords dominating national parliament, suspended Joy’s membership for three years in 2007. Earlier, at almost every parliamentary session she attended, she had her hair pulled or physically attacked and called names (‘whore’). ‘They even threatened me in the parliament with rape’, she says. But she neither toned down her criticism of war lords (‘they must be tried’) nor US occupation (‘war on terror’ is a mockery). Understandably, she’s been declared the ‘bravest woman in Afghanistan’ and even compared with Aung Sun Suu Kyi.

A household name in Afghanistan (‘Most famous woman in Afghanistan’, according to BBC), Joya shot to fame back in 2003 at the Loya Jirga convened to ratify Afghanistan’s new constitution. Unlike US-sponsored clean-shaven fundamentalists, Joya was not nominated but elected by the people of Farah province to represent them. She stunned the Loya Jirga and journalists present on the occasion, when she unleashed a three-minute vitriolic speech exposing the crimes of warlords dominating that Loya Jirga. Grey-bearded Sibghatullah Mojadadi, chairing the Loya Jirga, called her an ‘infidel’ and a ‘communist’. Other beards present on the occasion also shouted at her. But before she was silenced by an angry mob of war lords around, she had electrified Afghanistan with her courageous speech.

I happened to meet Joya in January unexpectedly at a dinner when she reached Peshawar (Pakistan) on her way to Canada. Since her passport has been confiscated and she is on Exit Control List, she had travelled to Pakistan in disguise. Politely refusing my request for an interview on the plea that she got to catch a flight early next morning, she promised to catch up with me in Kabul later in March.

Three months later, we met again in Kabul. As an MP, Joya was entitled to rent a villa in a posh neighbourhood designated to MPs. However, plagued with life threats, Joya hardly visits it. Her comrades discreetly pointed to the villa when we were driving past this neighborhood on our way to an underground home Joya sometimes uses to meet visitors. In an interview, interspersed by a delicious Afghan dinner, and post-dinner chat, this brave woman shared her hopes and fears with Arbetaren. Here are the excerpts.

You can read the interview with Malalai Joya at:

http://www.counterpunch.org/sulehria08182008.html

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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Ok, now, why do you think this?
Why do you think the purpose of the U.S. military is to help Afghani farmers?

Why do you think the way to help Afghani farmers is to import thousands of troops and weapons?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. BWAHAHAHA Operation Free Afghani Farmers!
Not as sexy as liberating oil, but it's got legs!
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-26-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. Agreed.
What are the odds that what SHOULD be, WILL be?
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