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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:53 PM
Original message
Clark Supporters, tell me why you support Clark
I am a Dean supporter and I probably always will be. His energy makes me feel like there is someone out there who is expressing what I feel. I know Dean has some faults, and I am aware of Clark. However I seem to just not be as compelled to support Clark. Clark supporters, I want to give you all some time to try to inspire/convince me that Clark is the best person to beat Bush, AND to be the President of the United States. I am willing to give Clark a fair chance. Please no flames.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because he's a hottie!
;-)
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. LOL cg
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. How much time do you have?
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I have a while
Cmon people! This is your chance!
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Your first sentence, tells me not to waste my time..
But I wish you well with your candidate of choice.
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frogfromthenorth2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Because
Oh...forget it... WRONG FORUM!!!
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-07-04 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. ?????
Im serious people. I want to give Clark a chance! I have been to his website and watches some videos. Will someone please tell me why they support Clark?
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frogfromthenorth2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. GO ASK THERE:
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Well if you have been to his website and watched videos...
What more do you need? His website is very informative.
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. UHG
I simply wish to hear why YOU support clark.
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. He gives me hope for the Future...
I like where he stands on the issue, plus Bush is scared to death of him.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. He can win in November
and he's a Democrat. I don't need any other reason.
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:07 AM
Response to Original message
12. Thanks everyone!
I appreciate your constructive input!
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TrueAmerican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
14. Aren't we all above these type of tactics.
Please don't insult us.

Clark supporters please don't fall into this persons prey.
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. You know its pretty sad...
When an honest person gives people a chance to hear their perspective and they turn it into some "trick" bullsh*t. What do I have to say to get an honest responce?
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beawr Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. I agree
see my post
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. It's pretty basic really
I'm vehemently ABB so my most overriding criteria is which candidate has the best chance of defeating * in November. Please note that I didn't say "only" rather "best".

I believe that Clark's background, positions and campaign demeanor make him the strongest candidate to take on the Rethuglicans in a year where the debate is going to rage on about national security, terrorism, etc.

Fortunately, I also like Wes Clark's liberal yet balanced position on the important issues.

Finally, everything about the man speaks to me: achievement, intelligence, humanity, quiet strength, discipline, family life, career of service and more.

I'm not knocking Gov Dean or any of the other candidates, but I do believe that Wes Clark is an exceptional candidate and I think that he does have the intangible gifts that could make him an extraordinary President.

That's the nutshell answer.
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
15. strong
I saw an interveiw yesterday and it was while I was surfing . A lady must have said something about the poor not paying their share on taxes or the war. I caught it just as Clark lit into this lady(she was a stunner on faux) and said the poor donate with their service and their lives. It was inspiring how he stood up for the folks who dont have a voice in this country and are generally taken for granted as immaterial. Clark was strong. I actually got goosebumps when he went into this . He was quick decisive and put this reporter back on her heels for asking such a shallow insensitive question.

Thats why I like Clark. When hes in your corner hes gonna fight for you. Hes straight up. Hes got character and honesty. Hes no nonsense. He shows the kind of leadership that draws people to him as he did with me.
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Thank you Ksec
for answering my question. That goosebumps stuff is what im looking for in my candidate. :) I guess I just need to study him a little closer.
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Clark Campaigner Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:12 AM
Response to Original message
16. Because Clark can attract moderate and Republican voters
I think he will advance the Clintons' work of making the Democratic party more appealing to mainstream, centrist America.

We need this if we are to ever win back Congress.






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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Your prob right
He could attract those in the middle. SO far Dean (be it supporters like me or people for other candidates) has shown to be kinda divisive. That's what is really worrying me.
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Clark Campaigner Donating Member (186 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. yep
The party really needs to start moving squarely towards the middle. The left-wing fringe has really turned off a lot of Americans.
Dean is the candidate for the fringe, and Clark is the candidate for us centrists.








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beawr Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
18. Because he has that gut appeal
That all those voters that do not bother to think too much will appreciate. The swing voters vote the same way they go out to eat, they look for them golden arches, or Olive Garden if they're feeling flush. That's basically why I think he will beat the chimp, Clark is very appealing without thinking too much about it. Unfortunately, you want a candidate that people will like without thinking about it.

I think he'll make a good president because he is not beholden to oil companies. Our current junta's attachment to old fashioned fossil fuel companies, to the point where they will kill off Americans to serve their petroleum masters, is the base cause of most of our troubles in the world today.

I think he will make a good president because the rest of the world will not think of him as an idiot puppet. I am also confident that Clark knows how to get along with "old" Europe.

Domestically, I think he will be a good president because he will be a Democrat and will be beholden to the Democrats that put him there. I believe that Dean and Kerry and even Kucinich will have his ear and a share in power.

I am also ready to see the Democrats embrace a military figure. We cannot govern this nation if we constantly demean the military. The military in this country is amazingly honorable compared to other super powers throughout history. We need to make the point that the military pretty much only does wrong when its civilian bosses compel them to do so. The greatest president of the 20th Century, FDR, wielded the military might of this nation in a most honorable way, engaging in the last "good" war.

And so to bed...

Good Night all you good people, let's not give in to fascism....
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
23. Best chance of beating Bush
Right now I believe that Clark has a better chance of beating Bush. Because of Clark's background, Bush/Rove could not attack him as being weak on defense and specifically terror. Everyone says that we vote with our pocketbooks, but I just feel that the Bush administration is so defined by the war in Iraq, that with Clark as the candidate we could take the fight to Bush better than with any other candidate.

Many swing voters and moderate Republicans would feel better about voting for Clark. Even though Dean is probably more moderate that Clark, the perception is that Dean is too liberal (I know, not true, but perception is reality). There are a lot of moderate Republicans who are very angry at Bush, but would not be able to vote for a Democrat. I feel that Clark could bring these voters over as well as the military votes.

If it does come down to the economy, we could tout the fact that Clark has a Rhodes scholarship majoring in economics.

According to the polls, most people in America feel that the war in Iraq was justified and that Bush is doing a good job protecting us from the evildoers. Having a 4 star general saying otherwise might have some weight with these people.

As far as being president, you don't get to be a general without being a good leader.
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:28 AM
Response to Original message
25. Great story about Clark
I forgot the details, but there was an instance in Kosovo where he was riding in a jeep behind a truck full of his troops. The truck was hit by a grenade and went over a cliff. Instead of driving to safety, Clark repelled down the side of the cliff to see if there were any survivors. There weren't ,but once again, instead of getting away from a danger zone, he stayed with his dead troops until help could arrive.

Can you imagine chickenhawk Bush doing that?

I'm sure someone can correct any inaccuracies with that story. But it does show to me that Clark is a man with great character.
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Turkw Donating Member (521 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Apparently he hand delivered the wedding ring of one of the soldiers to
that soldiers spouce. Here is a link to the story

http://ellabella.forclark.com/story/2004/1/6/182850/1804
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rogerhall Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #28
43. How can you respond to that?
That's amazing. I just followed the link, and the links found there, and it sure seems to be a true story. Which candidate's tale is more inspiring?

We're not worthy!

I've typed it more than a couple times lately, but it should be typed again:

Wes Clark *will* be an extraordinary American President.
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Turkw Donating Member (521 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
26. No flames here, I like Clark's record of promoting women and minorities
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 12:36 AM by Turkw
in the military. I like his position on gays in the military, and I think he is the person best equipped to end the ridiculous tradition of driving homosexuals out of the armed forces.

He has a history of being pro-education. Not only is he highly educated, but as NATO commander was presented with the problem of an outdated, underfunded, school system for the children military forces in Europe. Clark helped create a new school curriculum, and went to congress and other places to get additional funding to make the school system not only functional but competitive.

I think it is a mistake to underestimate just how important changing the Democratic party's stance with active military is. We are the party that has the best interest of the men and women at heart, we will not use them for economic gain and will see that they get the benefits they deserve. Taking that voting block away for the Republicans would be important for years to come.

There are just a few of my reasons, thanks for the opportunity.
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
27. Kind of a gut appeal
I was looking for a candidate. Dean at the California convention just wowed me. I watched his speech probably 4 times and he wowed me but I just didn't think he would appeal to all those folks not as angry as I was. About that time, I started hearing the rumors about Clark running. My first reaction was just political. A General running on the Dem ticket? First in his class at West Point? How will he run in the South? I would guess he would run well with Men? All political but I knew I needed to look closer.

At first, all I heard was positive. Integrity, service to country, courage, values. All I heard. I resisted his appeal. I don't believe in the military much and I am a feminist. No way I could support a man from the military. It's a culture that devalues women. Then I started reading the downsides. He supported the School of the Americas. No way.


Then I started to just listen to him. I see integrity and wanting to serve this world. I met him and listened to how he wants to cut military spending. Stop the influence of tne military/industrial complex. Allow divergent viewpoints. I see a somewhat naive man who truly believes in what I believe. He doesn't back away from what is right. Has few political ties. Few ties to special interests. And he is just so smart. His envrironmental ideas are smart.

I trust him.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
29. I like 'em all
Really, I can't understand all the flaming. Well, maybe with Joe Lieberman, but even he has kicked some serious ass on Bush.

Dean and Clark both vie for top position in my list, though. Dean, because he has the "fire in the belly". Clark, because he will utterly destroy Team Bush's ability to wrap their filthy nakedness in the American Flag.

None the less, I think Bush has this upcoming election "in the bag". Team Bush has been planning a second raid on Democracy since December 13, 2000. This is an "end-game" scenario for the Conservative movement and for the Oil Industry; when the truth does come out, we will see how very close to the abyss we came.

But there is still hope. People like Al Gore, Clark, Dean, and the new generation of energized liberals and idealists will stick with it and keep fighting.

... And keep fighting!

--bkl
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
30. The top four reasons I switched from Dean after a lot of thought
1) Clark opens up the race to center on the issues that Dems win with. By removing national security (Chimp's only issue) from the Rove/ho playbook he can shift the debate to jobs, healthcare, civil liberties etc. We win on all other issues. Dean, for example, will spend three months defending himself against the most vicious ad attacks and media whore meme-hawking the world has ever seen.

2) He's proved time and time again he is capable of neutralizing the spin of even the most skillfull bush shills like Tim Russert. This is so important to victory it probably should be number one.

3) I agree with his proposals on social issues. Sure they are Clintonesque. I don't apologize for supporting the ideas of the most successful president since FDR.

3) His character is beyond reproach. What a contrast with Chimpo! A guy who actually served his country while caring about the people he served running against a guy who was served byhis country and who has only contempt for the people upon whose backs his family and friends have built their wealth.

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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
31. Okay...a few reasons:
First let me clarify something; when I was researching the candidates, one of the things that stood out for me was that Clark was as far or further to the left than many of the other candidates, but no one ever says that. The pundits consistently refer to him as a "centrist" but that is not the case. It made me laugh out loud: we could slide in a liberal and no one would ever know it! So cool.

Domestic Policy: Standard Democratic positions with the extra bonus of a much improved Cuban policy. In addition, any monies we need to improve social conditions in our country are currently buried in the defense budget. To be successful at governing, and Clark does like to be successful with a capital "S," the money must be weedled out of that pork-filled budget. Of all of the candidates, only Clark has the chance to do that and the knowledge required to find it.

Foreign Policy: I just read a TNR editorial, but it is not the first time I've agreed with a writer on this one. Clark doesn't just know foreign policy...he is considered one of the experts living on the face of the planet. Again, improvements in this country are directly affected by our foreign policy both in terms of dollars and in terms of jobs. To paraphrase something I read once: in the military they have a term "The Goldilock's Solution." It is when a policy wonk comes up with a set of briefs, one is too hot, one is too cold, and one is just right. The person being quoted said that Clark's always wants to know "why are we eating porridge anyway?" Clark thinks outside the box. The military of course hated it, but since they needed his solutions, they always wanted Clark on the team. He smart...no make that brilliant. And that is exactly what it is going to take to clean up this mess.

Finally, one of the greatest dangers I see to our democracy, is the rightwing's current control over the military. It chills me to the bone. We may not get another chance to break that lock. Clark is a gift to the Democrats, yes, but I would argue that he is a gift to all of us who value living in a free society. Clark's understanding and love of our Constitution and the philosophy that inspired the very notion of this country, is rare.

When I think about this election and look over the electoral map, it is not about "how can Clark win" is about "how can bush win" if we run Clark.
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RafterMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
32. A few reasons
1) We're really in a mess, internationally. Governors seem to take about 2 years to get up to speed on the international front -- Clark's "head of state" status as SACEUR gives him a head start. Plus, he's lived through the *worst* of multilateralism, holding NATO together through the Kosovo war. And yet this experience solidified, rather than tempered, his belief in multilateralism. Other candidates voice support for this approach, Clark has lived through all the speedbumps and will hit the ground running.

2) Tone. I really, truly believe that Clark is the one guy who can make progressive ideals palateable and even desireable to mainstream America. Here is what I think Mr Mid-America hears from the left on affirmative action, for instance:
1) From the far left: Affirmative action is needed to protect minorities from racist white America.
2) From mainstream Dems: Affirmative action is needed to remedy the effects of past discrimination.
3) From Clark: Affirmative action makes my army stronger.

Which gives him the most comfortable path to agreement?

Clark's presentation seems to give the center/center-right much more room for them to agree with him than any candidate I've ever seen. Lots of angry people on the left want to bludgeon their opponents into submission, the way they've been bludgeoned since Reagan. I understand it emotionally, but I honestly believe these flies can be won with the right honey.

After four years of a Clark administration, middle-America will use the word "neocon" with the grimmacing horror that "liberal" took on after Reagan-Mondale. Washington insiders will make the sign against evil when Richard Pearle enters a room.

National security will mean that America is respected, not feared. Family values will mean helping families. People really believe in Democratic values, yet the party has consistently made these values appear spooky and punative.

Wes Clark can change that. Give him a chance.
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Clark4VotingRights Donating Member (795 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
33. Well, since you asked...
My first screening criteria was to eliminate anyone who voted for
the Iraq attack in congress.
That left Carol M-B, Sharpton (who revealed in the debates that he's
incredibly bright and witty), Dean, Kucinich, & Clark.

So I looked closely at them, and was amazed at what Clark's done.

Yes, his resume is beyond impressive.
We all know the drill: Rhodes Scholar, first in his class at West Point, multiple master's degrees in areas very relevent to a world leader: Politics, Philosophy, and Economics; awarded purple heart, silver star. Four star general. Bla bla.

That impressed me; it didn't sell me.
Here's what sold me.

He fought the *one war* in US history that was waged for humanitarian reasons. (WW2 is a possible exception. FDR's motive for maneuvering us into that war were likely humanitarian, but it's hard to say 'cause official history of that period is so warped and spinned.)

Clark shamed Clinton into stopping "ethnic cleansing" in Kosovo.
This calls for background info. (Bear with me. :))

"Samantha Power is a Lecturer in Public Policy. She was the founding
executive director of the Carr Center for Human Rights Policy (1998-2002), and the Pulitzer prize-winning author of A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide (Basic Books, 2002), which examines U.S. responses to genocide in the twentieth century. From
1993-1996, Power covered the wars in the former Yugoslavia as a reporter for the US News and World Report and The Economist. She is the editor, with Graham Allison, of Realizing Human Rights: Moving from Inspiration to Impact (St. Martin's, 2000). She is a graduate
of Yale University and Harvard Law School."

http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/degreeprog/courses.nsf/wzByDirectoryName/SamanthaPower

"General Clark is one of the heroes of Samantha Power's book. She introduces him on the second page of her chapter on Rwanda and describes his distress on learning about the genocide there and not being able to contact anyone in the Pentagon who really knew anything about it and/or about the Hutu and Tutsi. She writes, "He frantically telephoned around the Pentagon for insight into the ethnic dimension of events in Rwanda. Unfortunately, Rwanda had never been of more than marginal concern to Washington's most influential planners" (p. 330) .

He advocated multinational action of some kind to stop the genocide.
"Lieutenant General Wesley Clark looked to the White House for leadership. 'The Pentagon is always going to be the last to want to intervene,' he says. 'It is up to the civilians to tell us they want to do something and we'll figure out how to do it.' But with no powerful personalities or high-ranking officials arguing forcefully for meaningful action, midlevel Pentagon officials held sway, vetoing or stalling on hesitant proposals put forward by midlevel State Department and NSC officials" (p. 373).

According to Power, General Clark was already passionate about humanitarian concerns, especially genocide, before his appointment as Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces in Europe. When genocide began to occur in the Balkans, he was determined to stop it.

She details his efforts in behalf of the Dayton Peace Accords and his
brilliant command of NATO forces in Kosovo. Her chapter on Kosovo ends, "The man who probably contributed more than any other individual to Milosvevic's battlefield defeat was General Wesley Clark. The NATO bombing campaign succeeded in removing brutal Serb police units from Kosovo, in ensuring the return on 1.3 million Kosovo Albanians, and in securing for Albanians the right of self-governance.

Yet in Washington Clark was a pariah. In July 1999 he was curtly informed that he would be replaced as supreme allied commander for Europe. This forced his retirement and ended thirty-four years of distinguished service.

Favoring humanitarian intervention had never been a great career move."

http://blog.forclark.com/story/2003/11/28/81836/095

Yes, this is from the Clark community blog. But it's all factual.
I've seen Samantha on CSPAN introduce General Clark after his war crimes testimony against Milosvevic at the Hague. She said the same thing. I saw her on PBS NOW, she said the same thing.
I've seen her book.

This is a man who pressed for humanitarian intervention in Rwanda and Kosovo at the expense of his career.

-Clark is a diplomat first and foremost.

He respects our soldiers (unlike Bush), and will put them in harms way, only as a last resort:

"Wesley Clark: The anti-war general

...Colleagues and critics of Clark say the general's experience negotiating the Dayton Peace Accords changed him for good, transforming him from a military man into a general-diplomat who could never simply salute and follow orders again.

Another experience from that period, the unwillingness of the U.S. or United Nations (news - web sites) to intervene to stop the massacre of 800,000 people in the Rwandan civil war in 1995, seared in Clark a personal conviction to never let inaction have such grievous consequences again."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2027&ncid=2043&e=7&u=/chitrib_ts/20031230/ts_chicagotrib/wesleyclarktheantiwargeneral

-I'm not so naive that I think the US can survive without a military.

However, I do think our current military has been misused despicably and treated horribly.

Sending them to invade Iraq, kill Iraqis, and steal their oil is one of the worst war crimes ever. Clark has said as much. He was a commentator on CNN for months before the invasion, and was militantly (heh) opposed. I've read many of his quotes from that period; I've read columns he's written, mostly in the London Times.
He was dead set against that invasion. And even after Baghdad fell he was warning that the horror was just beginning.

Now we're stuck with the horror and he has a plan to get us out. Only a high ranking military man like him, and a superior diplomat (which he is) could have a viable and realistic plan to get us out of Bush's imperial invasion.

-And the fact is, Bush has plunged us into "war."

Bush is the one that's created the need for "wartime" leadership, which he can't provide. He's given us: War in Afghanistan (for the Caspian pipeline, but still war), war in Iraq (for oil, but still war), war on "terra,"...war war war.
And the Pugs will claim the Dems are weak on national defense.
You know, wimps.

How will they make that claim stick if the Supreme Allied Commander of NATO, a four star General is our nominee?

Picture a debate between Bush (the rich boy who got out of Vietnam by having his daddy get him a slot in the national guard, then went AWOL...from the friggen national guard!) and Clark.
Clark will serve him his ass on a platter.

Did you see Clark's interviews with the standard media whores a few
weeks back: Russert, Mathews,...everyone on Faux News?
He ate them for lunch. They never knew what him 'em.
But he did it with poise and dignity, with a professional presidential
demeanor.

Now when they interview him they're downright differential.
They practically roll over to get their bellies rubbed.
They've learned that he will fight back. Unlike the traditional spineless Dem.

I won't repeat his entire presidential platform (to your immense relief I'm sure). Just enough to underscore the fact that he's extremely progressive with social issues and economic issues.
You can read his policies here, if you're interested:
http://clark04.com/issues/

I'll just give a couple of examples:

-He's proposed the most *progressive* tax plan of any candidate:

"Wes Clark's Families First Tax Reform is a major tax simplification
proposal that will restore progressively to the tax code, relieve the
working-family squeeze and reduce poverty. Under Wes Clark's Families First Tax Reform, a family of four making up to $50,000 would pay no federal income taxes, and all taxpaying families with children making up to $100,000 would get a tax cut.
...
A 5 percentage point increase in the tax rate only on income over $1 million per year...
Closing corporate loopholes, including the ones that Enron took advantage of to unfairly cut its taxes."

-He's intensely focused on jobs, education, and training:

1-Wes Clark proposes to create a Homeland and Economic Security Fund of $20 billion per year (or $40 billion total over the next two years).

2-State and Local Tax Rebate Fund: $40 Billion Over Two Years.

3-Tax Incentives for Job Creation: $20 Billion Over Two Years.

A New Job Creation Tax Credit.
Allow Small- and Medium-Sized Firms, Including Manufacturing Firms, To
Expense Up To $150,000 In Investments.
Tax Incentives to Keep Manufacturing Jobs in the U.S.
Promote Growth By Promoting Trade

Etc.

-And a big reason I support him is his strength in the South, and his aggressive agenda on protecting voting rights, in particular rights of African Americans who were *successfully* targeted to steal the 2000 election.

-His southern strategy is one of his biggest advantages over the other
candidates. We can't win without the south.

Clark knows it. It's the reason he spent time there instead of Iowa.
He went there largely to promote his agenda for African Americans.

He's the *only* major white guy Dem to consistently speak out about the disenfranchisement of our black citizens to steal elections. He's the only major white guy Dem to blast the racist criminal justice system, that targets young poor black men to disproportionate degree, labels them as "felons," and robs them of their right to vote (traditionally Democratic, hmmmm).

Al Gore never even took on this issue, and black voter disenfranchisement was used to steal *his* election. After the recount debacle in Fla, he looked into the camera and assured us that he'd heard our voices and wouldn't forget.
But apparently he didn't hear all the muffled black voices, because he never addressed the GOP elephant in the corner; the fact that the GOP targets blacks to steal elections. I voted for Gore, I loved the guy; but I'm deeply disappointed in him for forsaking his black constituency. Then again, Democrats usually do.

Clark is an exception.
I'm sure it's one reason why Charlie Rangel and Andrew Young are his campaign co-chairs.

"Voting rights. I am concerned that so many Americans who are legally entitled to vote have had their right to vote impaired or their ballot ignored. I am astonished that the votes of thousands and thousands of African-American ballots were discarded in Florida. I was proud to lead a multilateral force in Bosnia and Kosovo, seeking to restore free and fair elections to the Balkans; what many Americans - and many African Americans - put their lives on the line for in Europe simply must be guaranteed here at home. I will fight to make sure that African Americans are never again unlawfully disenfranchised. In addition, I would encourage the states to look at the laws that strip voting rights from those who have served their time. Many thousands of these citizens are veterans who have also served their country, and disproportionate numbers are African Americans. When the right to vote - the basis of government - is at stake, the states should reexamine their answers to the hard questions: who is excluded, why they're excluded, for how long they're excluded, and whether the law as it stands serves justice for all."

And this is where is military background will help immensely.
The military is one of the most integrated institutions in the US.
A lot of the black voters that I talk to cite this as a huge plus.
And, frankly, a lot of rednecks will snap to attention because of it.

"I saw what could be accomplished when the doors of opportunity are fully opened to all. We had such a system in the U.S. military, through our strong affirmative action program. I was honored to serve with, and serve under, some outstanding African American leaders. I saw many proud young African American men and women thrive when treated with the dignity and respect they deserve. And through their service, they prepared for college and for careers, using their talent and determination to compete fairly and equally with others. As President, I'd do everything I can to make sure that the
people of the rest of our nation - in government, in the business sector, in education, in health care - are treated fairly and equally as well."

His outspokenness on African American issues, particularly the voting fraud that targets them, and victimizes us all, is *the* biggest reason I support Clark.

http://clark04.com/issues/africanamericans/

In addition he's from the South. So he doesn't have to select a Southerner as his running mate. That's a huge advantage.

And we've already seen that he's a serious contender, given his
fundraising and poll numbers.

If those polls are to be believed, Clark is the only
Democrat with an overall positive rating.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/index.php?page=national&story_id=010704a1_poll

Why elect a General?
I believe in fighting fire with fire.
Clark is fire.

He's also a passionate humanitarian, an accomplished and experienced
diplomat, and a man of uncommon compassion and integrity.

Since you asked...
:)

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bain_sidhe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
34. Posted a while back, but
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 01:50 AM by bain_sidhe
since you're new...

First and foremost, I support Clark because I think he has the ability to repair our international standing and alliances. This is more than just a foreign policy issue, it's also a domestic issue - we've already seen the damage Bush's "go it alone" on Iraq has done to our budget - $150 BILLION and no end in sight. That's money that's not available for domestic needs. And that's not even counting the fact that most of that money is a direct transfer from the public treasury to the Bushco contributors and cronies companies' pockets.

I also think that Bush's alienation of our allies also has other economic consequences... we've already seen, with the "steel tariff" flap, that our former allies are much less willing to "cut us some slack" when it comes to trade disputes... and with our trade deficit, a trade war will hurt us a lot more than it will hurt them.

On his domestic policies, he's where I am on most things - pro choice, pro-affirmative action, increasing access to health care (I'd prefer universal coverage of everybody, but at least he's talking about universal coverage for kids. That's a start, IMHO). Investing in public education - one of my biggies. Enforcing existing environmental standards, and strengthening them where possible. I liked his tax plan before, I LOVE it now.

But more important (to me) than his actual plans on these issues is the way he approaches the problems... with a measurable goal and a strategy for getting there. I don't know if the goals are all achievable, or whether the strategy he lays out will get us to them. But I do know that simply setting a nebulous goal like "doing better" or "more jobs" is no substitute for creating a target and a disciplined approach for actually achieving those goals. In short, I like the way he LOOKS at problems: As a "mission," with a measurable target and a plan for achieving it. It's that kind of thinking that gets things actually done, instead of just talked about. IMHO.

On top of all that, I think he's more electable than any of the others, AND that he can help get us away from this "fifty-fifty" nation crap that's killing us. I think too much of his support will come from the constituents of Republican members of Congress for them to simply stonewall his proposals, as they did with Clinton and would with Dean. Or, at least, they would pay too great a price in the midterm elections if they did, so it's win-win for us. If they DO simply stonewall, we'll probably regain one or both houses of Congress, if they don't, Clark will actually get some of his proposals passed.

All imho, of course! ;-)

**edit: tpyo & punctuation!**
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exJW Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
35. His Resume
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 01:36 AM by exJW
His resume, backed by his obvious character and courage and intelligence.

Look at it this way, suppose you owned a large, privately held firm, with only your loved ones as shareholders, and that firm was being inundated with problems internally and facing radical new competition externally.... which candidate would you hire to lead your family business out of the mess?

You'd interview carefully. You would pore diligently over the resumes, looking at accomplishments and leadership and track record. But you would do more than just look at the resumes and conduct standard interviews. You would also spend time with the applicants, invite him/her for a weekend of golf and socializing, were you would get a feel for how he treats people, including the waiters and help staff. You would actually call his references, and get to know his wife, mentors, professors. You would read anything they had written in professional journals, or really, anything they had written in any form that might give you more insight into their way of thinking.

So, if after doing all that, you would hire any of the presidential nominees other than Wes Clark to save your families' future, then I think your family ought to disinherit you, because you are a dumb ass. ;-)
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amyforclark04 Donating Member (24 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 01:39 AM
Response to Original message
36. Principled leadership...
Character, insight, intelligence, sincerity....

The ability to thoughtfully make a point without offending people.

Leadership abilities, incisiveness...I could go on and on.

Please visit forclark.com to learn more about why Clark supporters love Wes Clark.
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angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
37. He's like an old family friend
that you trust.

He would not embarrass us on the international scene.

You would not have to hold you breath every time he opens his mouth and pray that he doe not put his foot in it.

He is folksy, so that people w/o degrees and who are living from paycheck 2 paycheck can identify with him and feels he SEES them and feels their pain.

He is a military General and would never have us in the mess that we are in now.

He can genuinely bring all people together, not just the internet, middle-class geeks who never voted before.

He will respect and know how to reach the democratic base(minorities, working poor,women) w/o having someone else do it for him.

He could also get the independents and the moderate republicans. He can win the North,South, East and West.

Basically he could keep Dubya's ass to kingdom come!!!!!
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
38. Duh...uniform? Stars? OK, and a few other details I listed here:
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 02:07 AM by robbedvoter
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
39. Thank you for you question
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 02:11 AM by crunchyfrog
I can't give you nearly as eloquent an answer as some others here have, but I will give it a shot.

Early on in the race, I supported Howard Dean. Of all the candidates running at the time, he was the only one who was really telling the truth about the Bush regime, and willing to unashamedly take traditional Democratic stands. If Clark had not entered the race, I would probably be a hard core Dean supporter at this point.

However,I never really felt completely comfortable with Dean. While I felt he was the strongest of the pack because of his willingness to fight, I nevertheless felt less than comfortable with his chances against Bush. I watched some of his television appearences and he never really resonated with me, although I really wanted him to.

As I became aware of the Draft Clark movement, I started to get intrigued, although I was sceptical that he would actually enter. I was a lurker on DU at the time, and after he entered I held off actually deciding to support him until I could wade through the massive shitstorm that occured over the following couple of weeks. People dug up every concievable bit of dirt on him that could be found, so I spent a couple of weeks looking at the evidence, and doing deeper research, finally reaching the conclusion that I was comfortable with him.

A big part of what I like is purely in the area of pragmatism. I think that he is the strongest candidate to put up against Bush, and that is my number one priority. Among other things, his foreign policy and national security credentials completely take those things off the table for the repukes. The fact that he is a military man, in my opinion, automatically widens his appeal to a larger cross section of the American population. The fact that he's southern also IMO makes him stronger electorally.

If it was just his resume and background, I don't think that alone would be enough to defeat Bush, but after watching a number of his appearances, it became clear that he had the ability to articulate an alternative message in such a way that it can resonate with people. He has a capacity to reframe issues that have traditionally belonged to the right, like national security, family values, and patriotism, and attach liberal and progressive meanings to them. In fact, I could imagine him being a sort of Reagan in reverse, moving the political landscape of this country back towards the left, and, like Reagan, bringing many members of the other party along for the ride.

Another factor for me is that he is also a fighter. When I watch him being interviewed by RW shills, he usually hands them their asses on a platter, does it without breaking a sweat, and with a beautiful smile on his face. After a couple of encounters with him, people like Tweety and Timmy act like they are scared and intimidated and they treat him with respect. He is the first person on our side that I have ever seen be able to do that, and it feels really good to watch. I especially liked how he threw down the gauntlet to Karl Rove in a recent speech, daring Karl to come after him. He simply will not take any shit. He won't let them do to him what they did to John McCain and Max Cleland (he offered to beat the shit out of them if they do).

If all this wasn't enough, I find that his positions are also among the most liberal of all the viable candidates running. That doesn't mean that I agree with all his positions but I do find myself agreeing with his overall principles and values. His foreign policy beliefs are precisely the oposite of the neocons. He is strongly environmentalist, and has most other views that are traditionally seen as liberal Democrat.

However, he has the appearance of being a moderate, and he frames his positions in a non-partisan way. This means he will likely be able to appeal to a wider section of the population including moderate Republicans, and will be able to present his agenda in a way that they find non-threatening. For this reason, I think he would be much more effective than most Democratic presidents in actually enacting a progressive agenda.

Finally, I have just found that he really resonates with me. I am incredibly impressed virtually everytime I see him do a telivision appearance, especially one that is unscripted and has unexpected questions coming at him. His brilliance, understanding and compassion really shine through.

I'm sorry this has turned into a rather long essay, but I am really enthusiastic about the subject.:)

I am not at all interested in swaying you to support my candidate. I am sure that you have the same sort of enthusiasm for Dean as I have for Clark, and I completely respect that. I genuinely do appreciate your desire to understand and respect why some of us really like Clark.:)
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DoveTurnedHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
40. Integrity. Duty. Intelligence. Electability.
All those things, and more.

DTH
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rogerhall Donating Member (82 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
41. Numerous (and numbered) reasons
Please - all of the following IMHO:

1. He is the smartest person in the race.
2. He is the most selfless person in the race.
3. He is the most even-keeled person in the race.
4. He is our only chance to (somewhat instantly) restore American credibility in the world view.
5. I have seen him on TV 50+ times, and with the exception of some debate performances, I have never been disappointed in what he said (and to be honest, I probably expected too much from a nine person race - quick side note - Edwards won the debate series IMHO.)
6. I read most of his two books, and feel like I understand him
7. He loved the promises of JFK, and is our best chance to have that sort of inspiring leadership again.
8. Did I mention how smart and selfless he is?

BTW - My Mom went to high school with Wes. He has always been on his way to being the man he is today. He is the last Boy Scout (in all of the best conotations of that organization).
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 04:02 AM
Response to Original message
42. I want to win......
Edited on Thu Jan-08-04 04:05 AM by Frenchie4Clark
Why? Let me tell you my story (This is to be published in a Democratic Club Newsletter):

The Democratic Priority - A Cure for the Coup
by me
I was certified mad shortly after the 2000 election. No, not by any psychologist, but by my very own family. They declared me mad at George Bush, mad at Al Gore, mad at Florida, mad at the media, and mad at Nader and his Greens. I was just plain loco. Following the election “debacle” I was reduced to only watching C-span and the News-world International channel (NWI), listening to late night KGO talk radio and reading Buzzflash and Mediawhoresonline on the net. My media exposure was limited to topics that soothed my state of mind.

If I was in a bad state, 9/11 made things worse as I witnessed my mortal wound, Bush, benefit from an American tragedy with a 90% approval rating. Could things get any worse? Corporate scandals, the pressing for a war with Iraq, the trashing of the United Nations and the total ridicule of the French just sent me into a relapse worse than I had originally experienced. Then came the 2002 mid-term elections and my raw rage morphed into a solid mass. I marched in San Francisco, this time surrounded by thousands of like-minded citizens! That, at least, gave me some comfort. The only bright spot in the horizon seemed to be the 2004 election. Finally, a chance to get rid of Bush and to stop the madness.

As I surveyed the field of candidates in the summer of 2003, I asked myself which one could accomplish my overwhelming priority, curing the Coup. The choices appeared a bit “iffy” to me. My ailment was killing me, but I could not spot the antidote. I wasn’t going to just settle. I had to have an assured remedy.

I had taken to rabid reading as a band-aid for my pain. It kept my mind clear, and at the least it allowed me a wide array of selection. It was during this therapy that I learned about the liberal General, through Samatha Power’s Pulitzer award winning book, A Problem from Hell, America and the Age of Genocide. He was the hero in Power’s book; the Four Star General who had urged that we intervene in the genocidal actions in Rwanda, and who had succeeded in saving 1.5 million Muslims lives in Kosovo. Wes Clark’s name had also come up when President Clinton declared him to be one of two stars in the Democratic Party along with Hillary. I no longer watched the Cable Triplets, so I didn’t know Clark from television. But Clinton’s pronouncement led me to buy Clark’s book, Waging Modern Wars. Just buying a book purely about war embarrassed me somewhat. But I was searching for a cure, and nothing could stop me. Then I heard that Michael Moore and Bill Maher were also supporting the General. So, with the blessing of a best selling humanitarian author, a movie making celebrity Green, an outspoken libertarian talk show host, and the last sitting Democratic President, I made my selection of backing a General to cure my hurt and kick Bush’s derriere all the way back to Crawford, Texas. I sat down and wrote Clark a letter on June 15th asking him to run. On September 17th, Wes Clark announced his candidacy.

To date, the General has yet to disappoint my choice of treatment. In fact, I am convinced more than ever that this man can win the 2004 general election. This Southern Rhode Scholar intellectual, liberal internationalist, Affirmative Action Amicus brief writing, Bosnia Peace negotiating, non-politician articulating, multi-lingual patriot has yet to fail me.

The Native American Times just endorsed him, as did the 2002 AOL-Times Person of the year, the Enron Whistleblower. Barbara Boxer, Jerry Brown and the President of the Sierra Club all attended Clark Fundraisers. Ted Sorenson and George Soros (Mr. Money bags himself) have both clearly stated that they are in Clark’s corner. Walter Cronkite used him as an example of a positive campaigner. Jesse Jackson Sr. tooted Clark’s Aid policy as the best. Andrew Young and Charlie Rangel were just named as his National Party Chairs. The Bufallo Bills will be working for him. Hell, we've even got Madonna on our side. In brief, the diversity of support for the General is truly breathtaking! Add the fact that the Republicans and the corporate media barely speak Clark’s name except to smear him reinforces my satisfaction in picking my cure. I have read the thirty-one detailed policy papers (foreign and domestic) found on Clark’s website. In four months of running, his policies and positions only demonstrate careful thought and deliberate political wisdom.

I now feel reassured that with Wes Clark to wage our battle, the five southern Democratic senate seats at play in the upcoming election will not all be endangered. We desperately need to keep the power of the filibuster. Further, it is only too certain that a Supreme Court justice or two will be retiring during the next presidential term.

I know that with Clark running as the nominee, Bush will have to expend much more money and time in the South as well as throughout the rest of the country than he and Rove may have wished. Those Independents votes sure will make a great splash landing in the Democratic column. The military votes for the Republicans will no longer be a safe bet with Clark on top of the ticket. Heck, Republican votes for the Republicans will not even be a sure thing.

In my delirious anticipation, I wait for the day that I will hear George answer Clark’s questions about 9/11, the Iraq war lies, and details on Bush’s ex-buddy Lay. I want to hear some stammering from Bush as he debates the rationale for posing in his foolish fancy flight suit while the Mission Accomplished sign flew in our faces, and our soldiers continued to die.

What do I want out of the election? No, I don’t want to give the Republicans and the media the candidate that they have selected for the Democrats. No, I don’t want to remake the Democratic Party. No, I don’t even want to teach “Cockroaches” a lesson. And no, I don’t need a doctor for this malady. The only thing that can make me well again is to witness the defeat of George Bush.

So here I am with my Democratic priority in order, to be cured from the case of the Coup.

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exJW Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. tothetop for the sake of democracy
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Phelan Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-08-04 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
45. as somebody that is probably a blue dog democrat
well at least on some issues,
Clark really to me as a democrat and an immigrated southerner with a mixture of liberal and conservative views. His taxation idea is something I find to be a good idea and his foreing policy credentials are impecabble. Being in Europe during the Kosovo crisis and writing several papers on it during my B.A. for Poli Sci, I have to say that Clarks handling of the crisis was amazing considering the opposition he encountered.

But perhaps even more importantly:
The country gravitates to the middle. As a country we do not want extreme candidates for office. And while many at this point will say that Dr. Dean is a conservative democrat on a lot of issues, that actually does not matter as the general perception is that he is extremely liberal. And that perception will not be fixed during the general election but only exploited by Rove.
I believe Clark on the other hand is not vulnerable to such attacks due to his strong military background. The fear here is that a candidate perceived as too liberal will not get the swing voters we need.

My final reasonsing for Clark is as follows: in the general election we already have the democrats, they will vote democrat but to win we must win over indepedents and moderate republicans. A man with such a pronounced military background is perfectly suited to do this.
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