Whatever else Blago has done, he's damaging dems and Obama

[cali]

in a most effective way. He's trying his best to tar Obama and to fuck up the chances of a dem Senator from Illinois in 2010.

NPD on steroids sums Blago up.

[NashVegas]

1. Blago Can't Damage Dems Anymore Than They Damage Themselves

Everytime they vote 'yes' for a corporate giveaway.

[cliffordu]

6. Precisely.

Expect most of them to sign on to a bailout for the auto makers that strip the bones of the workers, too.

[monmouth]

2. Couldn't disagree more. His antics have little or no effect on Obama,

who has been distanced from him since the git-go. He's damaging himself and perhaps Burris, but I just don't see any collateral damage to either Obama or Emanuel.

[customerserviceguy]

4. Well, there's the whole "Chicago politics" meme

McLame couldn't make it stick during the election, but if the bored mainstream media is looking for something to make controversy out of, that would be a handy theme.

Frankly, there are no easy ways out of this. Blagogate is going to get worse for us before it gets better.

[cliffordu]

7. Yeah, but Americans LOVE that whole "I got BAWLZ the size of a Buick, Motherfucker"

attitude....Dillinger in a RFK wig. Heh.

[OHdem10]

3. The Dems have an uncanny ability to ruin themeselves. They permit

the Media to drag them in or suck them into situations where they
end up hurting themselves. When are they going to look at each
situation and think before they leap. First rule in the future.
Do not threaten unless you absolutely know what the outcome will
be. Just as a good attorney never asks a question he does not
already know what the answer is.

Be circumspect, say something like--I will need more information.
Be prepared--more and more politicians will have the backbone not
to wilt under attacks from the Media. More will get a stiff upper
lip and refuse to step down. They know the spotlight will eventually
have to go somewhere else. There has been so many stories where
the Media got it wrong--politicians will not permit themselves
to be railroaded. Bill Clinton, Senator Craig--look at the House
and Senate.

The Senate Democrats are now in a weakened position. The Prosecutor
has had to ask for more time--weak case???

It is often best to let States handle their own problems. Looking
like a bunch of Moralistic Right Wingers ready to "Shun Burris"
is not exactly what America expected as change.

Are they going after Corruption in all the states????

[Danger Mouse]

5. His pick of Burris was a cynical dividing tactic, and Burris eagerly gobbled it up.

They're both assholes.

[totodeinhere]

15. He is the sitting governor of Illinois and it is his prerogative to appoint a new senator.

He has been convicted of nothing, and IMO, when all facts are on the table, he will be shown to be innocent.

[IsItJustMe]

8. My take is different than yours. I think that Reid and Obama shot from the hip and made the

decision to go after Blago on one sided information, that being the spectacular press conference that Fits gave, and the trial by media that naturally ensued.

They did not even wait until Blago got out there to start telling his side of the story, which I knew was going to happen, sooner or later.

You can not, nor should you, make a decision on one-sided information.

Now you have the situation where Blago is out there trying to defend himself and to stand up for his own rights.

I am sorry. I do not live in a one dimensional world. Everything is not always as it appears to be and there is always two sides to every story.

There is plenty of blame to go all around here, just my opinion.

[TeamJordan23]

9. An already tainted Burris would lose in 2010. nm

[firedupdem]

10. I agree Cali....

it's a divisive move designed to take the heat off Blago. He wants everyone fighting over this Burris pick and injected race into it to stoke the fires. Blago, Rush,and Burris can go jump in the fucking river. Disgusting.

[MrGreene]

11. Four black House Democrats have already given a stern warning...

This is becoming a miserable trainwreck of epic proportions.



Tough Calculus for Blagojevich on Senate Appointment

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/01/us/01illinois.html?bl&ex=1230958800&en=12bf061ede98b771&ei=5087%0A

On Wednesday, four black Democrats in the House said Mr. Burris should be allowed to join the Senate despite opposition to the appointment by Senate Democrats.

Some of those House members warned that black Democratic voters could be angered if Mr. Burris is prevented from taking the seat. Those who called for Mr. Burris to be seated were Representatives Maxine Waters of California, Donald M. Payne of New Jersey, Donna M.C. Christensen of the Virgin Islands, as well as Mr. Davis.

Senate Democrats said they were standing their ground in opposing Mr. Burris because he was chosen by Mr. Blagojevich. Jim Manley, an aide to Senator Harry Reid, the majority leader, said the Senate would most likely move to have the question of whether Mr. Burris should be seated reviewed by the Senate rules committee, “which would have the effect of delaying his seating.”

Mr. Burris made it clear Wednesday that he intends to aggressively fight attempts to block his entrance to the Senate, filing a petition in the Supreme Court of Illinois that challenges efforts by Jesse White, the Illinois secretary of state, to withhold his signature from documents that will send Mr. Blagojevich’s appointment to Washington.

[bottomtheweaver]

12. Maxine Waters is pretty tough customer.

I'm glad to see she's on board with this because rejecting Burris, unless he's a complete crook, sounds completely suicidal. How lame that Dems would allow themselves to get corralled into what is clearly a sham meant to blunt their own effectiveness.

[MrGreene]

13. It's too late

i have been watching the news and there is now pressure from all sides. Pressure for Reid and the Democrats to have a solid backbone and reject this guy and pressure from some Republicans now for the Democrats to not over-step their authority. This whole thing really stinks.

[bottomtheweaver]

14. A solid cave in as usual is more like it.

Based only on what I've read about Burris here and on the web this looks like a low-tech lynching, pardon the expression, and I think in fact it really is a racist move with racist motives, though not necessarily Reid's. It sure has that appearance.

[ProSense]

16. "what I've read about Burris here and on the web this looks like a low-tech lynching"

Oh please! Burris isn't being lynched. He knew the situation, in fact, he was down with condemning Blagojecvich until the appointment, so it's curious that he accepted the appointment. This has nothing to do with race.

[bottomtheweaver]

17. It has that appearance.

Burris can't be appointed because some repuke fink called a press conference, and Caroline can't be appointed because she said "um" too many times.

You really don't see what's wrong with the picture? :shrug:

[ProSense]

19. Not even by appearnces.

"Repuke fink" aside, Blagojevich actions were deemed criminal enough to get him arrested. He did actually discuss selling the Senate seat. By so doing, he has forfeited his right to make the appointment.

[bottomtheweaver]

22. So far all we've got on Blago is appearance

so I wouldn't rule out the importance of appearance. What I mean though is that that's how it appears to me personally.

[NashVegas]

25. You're Absolutely Correct to Be Suspicious

Big D Democrats have become like people living in a dysfunctional household; they turn a blind eye to one of their own getting smacked down, in order to keep the breadwinner out of jail.

[bottomtheweaver]

26. Thank you!

And happy new year friend! :hi:

[Two Americas]

27. lol

Yeah, hey if the cops arrest a person, he must be guilty! The cops have "deemed" him, and once you are "deemed" you are toast.

What is this "criminal enough" idea? A person committed a crime or they didn't, and the burden of proof is on the prosecution.


"He has forfeited his right to make the appointment" - yeah the hell with due process. If the cops arrest you, kiss your rights good bye.

[ProSense]

31. "Yeah, hey if the cops arrest a person, he must be guilty!" Where did I say that?

Repuke fink" aside, Blagojevich actions were deemed criminal enough to get him arrested. He did actually discuss selling the Senate seat.

Even with the criminal complaint and unethical behavior, he is presumed innocent until proved guilty.

The fact is that even if Blagojevich is not convicted of all the charges in the complaint, he is guilty of discussing the sale of the Senate seat.

That, in fact, happened. He does not have to be convicted to be judged or censured for his unethical behavior.

[Two Americas]

33. ok

Look, when the cops hear someone planning a burglary, they set a trap and catch them in the act. That is good law enforcement. The feds are way out of control. If they cannot catch someone actually doing anything wrong, they try to get them on talking about doing something wrong. If they can't do that, they try to catch a person in a "lie" about what they were talking about when they were supposedly talking about doing something wrong. If they can't do that, they wage media campaigns or pressure and threaten people close to the suspect, or they trade the desired testimony in exchange for leaving the person alone.

The whole thing is rotten, and Blago is not the first nor the only person victimized by overly zealous federal prosecutors operating outside of and in violation of the Constitution.

[ProSense]

35. "Blago is not the first nor the only person victimized"

Look, when the cops hear someone planning a burglary, they set a trap and catch them in the act. That is good law enforcement. The feds are way out of control. If they cannot catch someone actually doing anything wrong, they try to get them on talking about doing something wrong...

Your second point is the basis for the first point. How would they hear about someone planning a burglary is they didn't listen?

The defense of Blagojevich is curious because some evidently believe not that he's innocent until proved guilty, but that he's an innocent victim. Sorry, he gets no sympathy and I think he's corrupt. He will get his day in court to determine if he is a criminal, but there is nothing precluding anyone from deeming him unethical.

[Two Americas]

36. not defending Blago

Why can we not question the behavior of the prosecution without being accused of "defending Blagojevich?"

How does that line of reasoning differ from that of those who said "you are defending Saddam" to any and all critics of the invasion and occupation of Iraq?

Why are we given two and only two choices here - accept the behavior of the prosecution, or else defend or sympathize with Blagojevich?

Regardless of what Blagojevich may or may not have done, he could still very well be a victim of prosecutorial misconduct and abuse of power.

[ProSense]

38. You referred to him as being "victimized." n/t

[Two Americas]

39. right

He could be a bad guy AND be a victim of misconduct by the feds.

[rvablue]

23. Why is it that the support for Burris being appointed is coming from a certain ilk

of DUers....interesting.

:shrug:


ed: typo

[IsItJustMe]

18. Or maybe some Dems are damaging themselves by rushing to judgement before the facts are all out. I

think with just a little bit of a change in a persons perspective, they can see this from two different perspectives.

[Critters2]

37. Dems damaged themselves by electing this criminal.

Electing Blago was a bad decision, and the rest of this mess is the consequence of that decision. The blame rests squarely on everyone who voted for him. Especially those who voted for him in the primary.

[ClassWarrior]

20. You wish.

:rofl:

NGU.

[backscatter712]

21. Blago needs to be ruined.

Break his back, crush his spirit. Make sure Fitz gets enough dirt on him to throw him in prison for at least ten years, and make sure that when he gets out, the only work he'll be able to find is working for minimum wage at the corner gas station.

I mean it. Utterly humiliate and destroy this son-of-a-bitch.

[tinrobot]

28. Why support Fitzgerald?

He's a Republican, after all...

Eating our own like that only gives Democrats a bad name and puts a previously safe Senate seat in jeopardy.

[backscatter712]

29. The difference between us and the Rethugs is that we police our own.

I'm not going to defend a criminal just because he puts a "D" next to his name.

The reason why Democrats have taken the high ground, won so many elections and have the advantage is because some of us have worked to keep this party clean and make this country a little cleaner. It sure as hell ain't perfect, but notice that when a corrupt Democrat is brought to light, other Democrats work to throw the sons-of-bitches out of power, and keep them out of Democratic circles. When Republicans are outed, all of them circle their wagons and defend the corrupt one, whether he deserves it or not. They defended Mark Foley, they defended Duke Cunningham, they defended Ted Stevens.

If the Democratic Party is going to set itself apart from the Republicans we have to police our own. Yes, it may make us vulnerable in an election or two. Deal with it. I won't have corrupt assholes in my party. Blago's a corrupt narcissistic thug, and he's completely unworthy of Democratic support.

[tinrobot]

32. The Republicans "ruin" people

We let our justice system work.

He's not a criminal until there's an indictment and subsequent conviction. That's the way our system works.

[firedupdem]

24. kick

[NYC_SKP]

30. I share your POV. Recommended. nt

[dansolo]

34. What if his appoinment was only as a placeholder?

I seem to recall you being vehemently against Caroline Kennedy being appointed to the Senate in NY, and that you felt that appointments give an unfair advantage of incumbency, and that they should be place holders. My feeling is that if Burris is just going to be a place holder, unless it can be demonstrated that he participated in Blegojevich's attempt to sell the seat, then he should be seated. Blegojevich is an asshole, and he is doing the Democrats no favors, but unfortunately until he is impeached, he has the legal authority to fill the vacancy.