Tim Kaine is the product of Dean's 50-state strategy

[berni_mccoy]

You have to wonder if Dean maybe recommended to Obama that Kaine take his place. I completely understand the angst here at Kaine's conservative stances on some key issues (I feel it too). I do not want my party moving anywhere near Kaine's stances on these issues. But as leader of the DNC under Obama, his job consists of primarily two objectives:

- getting more Democrats elected in the next set of elections.
- making sure Obama wins his next term.

Kaine was Governor of a state that went from a totally red state to a totally blue state between 2006 and now. Yes, we have Dean to thank for that, but Kaine certainly had a role in it too. Virginia was a very strategic state and was likely a model by which Kaine will use to convert others.

Just thought I would temper all the "OMG DID YOU KNOW WHAT KAINE'S STANCES ARE?!?11!" posts with some reasoning as to why Kaine is being selected for this role.

Thanks.

[wndycty]

1. Not only that, but it appears some of the Kaine backlash is related to him replacing Dean. . .

. . .most folks do not serve as chairman of EITHER PARTY for more than one term. Dean did an excellent job, but traditionally, NO ONE stays chairman or chairwoman of either party forever.

[mopinko]

80. he said all along that he would leave if obama won.

this crap that he is being pushed out makes me want to scream.

[Jennicut]

2. When you go to ALL the states not all of the people there will elect a Vermont type liberal

and I am from CT so I know what it is to be liberal. We want a bigger party, you have to get a bigger tent. I just hope all are allowed in the big tent, to conservative Dems to ultra liberals. Everyone is entitled to their beliefs but as the majority party you tend to attack all types.

[EconomicLiberal]

3. Howard Dean isn't a Vermont-type liberal himself.

In fact, he is about as centrist as Kaine is.

[Jennicut]

6. Funny, many here think he is the next coming of Jesus

I like Howard Dean but the DNC is not the greatest job on Earth and he wanted to move on. I think Kaine will be fine, he is not setting policy, Obama is.

[madfloridian]

15. Obama has set policy with this choice and with the choice of Rick Warren.

You are so so right. He has set a policy of anti-gay, anti-choice.

[Peregrine Took]

43. He was the first Democrat who had the cojones to publically criticize Bush.

People forget that after "911" happened Bush walked on water. As bad as he was, everyone was afraid to say anything negative about him.

Howard will always be my hero for that alone.

[Jennicut]

60. Al Gore also spoke up and he was my hero as well

I wanted him to run for president but settled for Obama, whom I like very much now.

[fascisthunter]

4. and will he continue Dean's Strategy

or will Kaine be more inclined to only support conservatives? My problem isn't just this pick, it's a culmination of picks, statements and decisions of Obama's that paint a very conservative picture for this country.

[berni_mccoy]

5. Hmmm.... will Kaine continue the Winning Strategy... or will Kaine pick the strategy of the Losers

That's a tough question to answer. :sarcasm:

[fascisthunter]

16. it is tough to answer, because You and I don't know

what strategy he will use. I hope he will continue Dean's strategy of campaigning in all 50 states.

[wndycty]

Yeah we should ignore the liberal credentials of the President Elect. . .

. . .we should ignore the fact that he is building an INCLUSIVE administration and wants the party to embrace ALL DEMOCRATS (moderates and progressives), etc.

It seems everybody wants things their own way, fuck building a big tent.

[EconomicLiberal]

7. Kaine doesn't pick anybody.

That is the job of the DSCC and the DCCC. Neither of which Kaine will be the chairman of.

[madfloridian]

8. Bottom line....the Democratic chair is anti-gay and anti-choice, and unfavorable to labor.

You can excuse that by comparisons to a man who worked his heart out and was promptly taken off the national stage of the party.

Or you can accept that Rick Warren was not an accidental mistake, but a pattern.

An anti-choice, anti-gay, anti-labor chairman loudly says which way our party is going.

The former chairman was none of those things.

[camera obscura]

9. His views on abortion are virtually the same as Obama and Biden

personally opposed, but politically pro-choice.

[madfloridian]

All is well. All is good. Religious right is happy.

.

[Jennicut]

14. the religious right dislikes any Dem or am I living in a black and white world only?

[madfloridian]

18. Obama set the tone with this choice.

We already stopped our DNC donations, so that's over with for us.

We will work with groups like the ACLU and PFAW who SEE the danger in pandering to religious extremists.

[LostinVA]

46. He is to the right of their views, and their views are rightist enough

[camera obscura]

53. How is he to the right of their views?

Can you cite anything he has passed into law that Obama and Biden would oppose?

[Alexander]

76. He's not. But some people here just need to be outraged.

The person to whom you're responding recently made a rather bigoted post blaming all straight people for Prop 8. :eyes:

[Alexander]

74. Shh! You're ruining the fake outrage party!

[berni_mccoy]

10. I'm not excusing it (if you read my post you'd realize that). I'm saying

His stance is less important than his job which has nothing to do with his stance.

[madfloridian]

25. One article said he would be "the face" of the party.

Let's not joke about this. The article said he would be Obama's formal spokesperson on TV and around the country.

I will see if I can find the article, it was WP or NYT

Hey, it's Obama's party and and the party of conservative Democrats now.

[Jennicut]

12. Tim Kaine was almost his VP, perhaps he got this instead of not being given the VP slot?

[madfloridian]

11. Clever indeed.

Let's be sure to drag the name of the former chairman into the fray since the new president decided an anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-labor chairman was the way our party was going.

Very clever.

[berni_mccoy]

13. That fact that you are responding twice to my OP tells me you are upset and

having difficulting saying what you mean.

[madfloridian]

17. I am saying you are blaming others for Obama's new policy of anti-choice and anti-gay.

I know exactly what I am sayins.

This will split our party like no other choice would have.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

31. "off my rocker"??

Thank you for that.

I love the insults here.

[berni_mccoy]

34. Well that goes to show you can't back up your statement. I've "blamed" noone.

[tblue37]

73. Madfloridian--I keep hoping that all this is tactical on Obama's part--

you know, feint right, in order to lull the RW sufficiently to allow him some breathing room to govern left.

I am not saying that is what he is doing--just that I hope that is what he is doing.

[burythehatchet]

21. I would like to see both parties blown up. Start over.

[berni_mccoy]

24. Now There's A GRAND IDEA!

:sarcasm:

[Freddie Stubbs]

20. It has been 12 years since Virginia elected a Republican Governor

The state has been trending blue.

[berni_mccoy]

22. Untill 2006 it had more Repub Congress/Senators and voted for Bush

Without Dean and Kaine, I doubt that would have happened.

[LostinVA]

48. That's because the Dems literally wouldn't run a Dem for Senator

Against Warner.

VA has been trending blue for a long time.

[grantcart]

23. Kaines' conservative statements that were picked out during a campaign

where he was running against a homophobe that try to make homosexual rights the over riding campaign issue have been debunked by the fact that his first act as Governor was to expand discrimination protection to include gays. While he personally is opposed to abortion he expanded health services to women, including access to full reproduction (including abortion)rights and was warmly endorsed by Planned Parenthood of VA. During VA's budget battle Republicans led the battle to cut planned parenthood and Kaine (despite his personal beliefs) fought to maintain planned parenthood funding

He also led the battle (which many liberal governors did not) to stop abstinence only education.

If peopel were really interested in Kaine's appointment they might ask themselves why it was such a high priority for Obama and why did he have to pressure Kaine to reconsider his request twice with the last move including Kaine flying to Chicago for a personal meeting with Obama just before he went to Hawaii.

As this article points out it has to do with Obama's interest in maintaining the grass roots organization that he built up.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2009/01/kaine_and_the_future_of_obama.html?wprss=thefix

The actual interesting thing about this appointment is really why Plouffe didn't take it, what does Plouffe want to do?

[madfloridian]

26. Please read my post in GDP. He advocated for abstinence only education.

.

[berni_mccoy]

35. He obviously *has* read your post. You need to read his response to know that.

[grantcart]

39. I read the title but did not read the post Berni

The title told me all that I needed to know.

[berni_mccoy]

58. Aparently the title was all you *needed* to read. LOL

:rofl:

[grantcart]

38. I don't bother even reading your hack jobs on Kaine madfloridian

but during the campaign when the full anti Kaine hysteria was in full gear I did call planned parenthood of Virginia and they told me that the they were very very happy with Kaine on two points 1) that he expanded health care to women including all reproductive matters and 2) that he killed funding for abstinence education, which they noted that many liberal governors didn't have the guts to do.

Here is the Washington Post where Planned Parenthood praises Kaine for his leadership on eliminating abstinence only education

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/12/AR2007111201716.html

Planned Parenthood of Virginia, which had lobbied for the change in policy, sent out a statement Monday praising Kaine for joining its nationwide campaign to eliminate abstinence-only programs, which urge youths to refrain from sex until marriage.

"There is no evidence that abstinence-only programs equip teens with the education they need to delay sexual activity or prevent unintended pregnancies or the spread of sexually transmitted disease," said Becky Reid, an organizer for Planned Parenthood Health

With the move, Virginia becomes the 14th state to refuse to support abstinence-only education.

If your reporting that Kaine advocated abstinence only education then it is incorrect and you should go back to your thread and correct it or start a thread apologizing for it. I am sure that there are more than 17 states that would be considered more liberal than VA and yet they still fund abstinence-only programs, unlike VA.

Here is the article that shows that despite a severe budget crises Kaine fought to keep Planned Parenthood funding fighting back the pro life forces that you apparently are telling people that he is tied to;

Richmond, VA (LifeNews.com) -- Like other states, Virginia faces a budget crunch and the governor and state lawmakers will have to fund ways to balance the $77 billion budget in a difficult economy. Pro-life advocates have an idea on a way to help -- by cutting funding to the Planned Parenthood abortion business.

Like most states, Virginia sends thousands of dollars to the pro-abortion group for family planning services.

Though the money doesn't directly pay for abortions, pro-life advocates say it's fungible and Planned Parenthood's own money spent promoting and performing abortions is supplemented by state funds.

The Family Foundation, a pro-life group, held a press conference on Thursday urging lawmakers to cut the $250,000 the state has paid the abortion business.

With pro-abortion Gov. Timothy Kaine saying $2.5 million must be cut from the budget and state legislators saying the figure may be as high as $4 million, the Family Forum says it makes sense.

"Virginia taxpayers should not be asked to subsidize the activities of the nation's largest abortion provider. They should not be asked to subsidize their partisan political activities," Family Foundation president Victoria Cobb said, according to the Virginia Pilot newspaper.

The newspaper also quoted Jessica Honke, policy director for Planned Parenthood Advocates of Virginia, who claimed abortion comprises just 7 percent of its services. Honke attacked the Family Foundation with claims that its family planning efforts help reduce abortions, even though state doesn't appear to be the case elsewhere.

Kaine spokeswoman Delacey Skinner also talked with the newspaper and said cutting Planned Parenthood's funding "isn't practical, it's not rational, and it's not an approach that is results-based."

The pro-life group may have more success working with friendly state legislators and cutting the funding from the budget in the legislature before the bill gets to the governor.

Did your hack job on Kaine also include the facts that 1) he fought to save planned parenthood funding and 2) planned parenthood of VA is very happy with his leadership?


edited to add

link http://www.lifenews.com/state3659.html

I will leave you to attack the President elect's appointments with trumped up and false accusations. There are those who want to bolster their credentials as Obama critics and will adopt the same cherry pick out of context measures that the Republicans will use.

Meanwhile I wonder exactly why Obama went to such lengths to get Kaine to reconsider and have him take the position.

[madfloridian]

42. I don't recall writing that much about Tim Kaine. But I sure got your message just now.

Hack job?

I think you need to read what I posted. It states his stance about abstinence only education.

Thank you for calling me a liar. It goes down very well.

[grantcart]

45. I never said that you wrote about Kaine during the primaries.

During that time I actually called Planned Parenthood of VA to get their opinion. I talked with their political director and they were absolutely effusive on their praise of Kaine on this issue and they repeatedly made the point that he was far more aggressive than other Governors in other states on the issue. I believe that they told me that VA was the first state that a Governor had actually eliminated an existing abstienence only education.

For the reply above I simply googled and got the citations in less than one minute. In a conservative state liberals sometimes have to play word games in their public statements in order to couch the issue in the most favorable light.

The facts of Kaine and reproductive rights in VA is that he has cut funding for abstinence education and maintained planned parenthood (despite his own personal convictions).

I didn't call you a liar and specifically told you that I have not read your OP.

If you are reporting that Kaine is for abstinence-only education or that he has not supported planned parenthood in state budgets it is not factually true and have provided citations for you.

If you can cite information that shows 1) Kaine supported funding for abstinence-only education or 2) that he used the budget to undermine planned parenthood I will offer a public correction.

If you are unable to do so will you do the same?

[madfloridian]

51. I used his words from his campaign. Read it before you dig the hole deeper.

.

[Vattel]

69. You should read your own post.

Kaine advocated for "abstinance-focused" education. As Grantcart pointed out, he has opposed "abstinance-only" education.

[berni_mccoy]

71. Oh my! That's gonna leave a mark...

[madfloridian]

72. It leaves no mark. It just is painful to see a Democratic forum....

putting down Democrats who believe in a woman's right to choose over that of a person who is opposed to it for religious reasons.

You are attacking those of us who say this is wrong. Do you think that is odd?

And you are putting down those in the gay community who want their rights too. It is going on all over DU.

My post was clear, I just posted facts. It's amazing how a copy cat post is still standing (mine always get locked)....and I am being made the bad guy for standing up for women's rights.

Amazing.

[berni_mccoy]

75. You are the only one doing the attacking. Spam responsing OPs is just that

Saying I am blaming anyone is just that.

Saying I don't support women or gay rights is just that.

You don't even read posts, you just jump to conclusions.

[madfloridian]

78. You are accusing me of spam responsing??

That is pretty serious.

[berni_mccoy]

79. No. It's evident in your responses. You started three response chains to the OP in this thread.

Pretty much saying the same thing: "I don't like your post" We got it after your first response.

I'd call that response spamming.

[madfloridian]

81. Then perhaps you should do something about it.

That should not be going on here at DU

[berni_mccoy]

82. I have. I've moved on. Maybe you should too.

[berni_mccoy]

28. Thanks Grantcart. I wonder if Plouffe's focus will be ensuring Obama stays POTUS

in the next election and deflecting any b.s. attacks made against him.

Could they be basically doing what Bush did with Rove (only without the political pressure on administrative officials and U.S. Attorneys)? Keeping Plouffe in the WH where he can manage the message and ensure it isn't taken over by the other party?

[grantcart]

41. I think that all we can say is that Obama has a completely different model

in mind.

He has just spent the last 2 years proving all his critics (both on a strategic and tactical level) foolish so I think it would be prudent to wait and see what exactly he has in mind. (Although I think that the Warren choice was a disappointment even given the strategy he intends to use.)

[gravity]

27. Tim Kaine was the product of Mark Warner

and the Democrats that get elected in Virginia are more moderate than those in California. If Democrat has to win a red state, they are going to be more compromising on the issues.

[madfloridian]

30. Yes, indeedy. Women and gays to the back of the bus.

That is exactly what we are saying when we accept politicians who do not believe in the rights of both.

[madfloridian]

29. DU never ceases to amaze me.

Our new president just chose "the face" of the party. And people in this thread are implying it is because some of us don't like the former chairman leaving.

WRONG. We knew he was leaving. The point is the harm of leaving out rights of women and gays.

Excuse all you want....make implications about people.

But please be honest.

[berni_mccoy]

33. The DNC Chair is NOT the "Face" of the party when the party has the POTUS.

Sorry, but you are just plain wrong here.

And you really don't know what to say as this is your third seperate response to the post. You should calm down for a bit and think about what it is you really need to say.

[madfloridian]

36. He will be Obama's formal spokesperson on the air.

Bottom line.

Yes, when the Democrats have the WH the DNC head is the spokesperson.

You can insult me all day, but I am still right on this issue.

His views will be on full display the next four years, and we will have to take it because the WH says we do.

I think you need to rethink where the blame lies here. Obama set policy with Rick Warren's choice and with the choice of a chairman who is anti-choice and anti-gay.

[berni_mccoy]

44. Really? He's going to serve as Obama's Press Secretary too?

[NYC_SKP]

32. No Man or Woman would escape outrage posts here.

ANYBODY pisses off SOMEBODY.

It's at once annoying and entertaining.

OMG!!11!11

NOT Tim Kaine1!11!!

:eyes:

[Mass]

37. How shocking that people express their opinions on a political forum!

Who would have believed that! It is amazing that some people think that DU should only have positive comments about any Democrats at any moment in time. May be we should join the GOP. Because the state of mind is starting to be airily similar: with us or against us.

[LostinVA]

50. The state of mind has been that way for a long time

[NYC_SKP]

52. When tempered with appreciation for the positives...

...either in an individual or in the state of things, for example replacing Bush with an excellent Democrat, discussion among differing points of view is essential.

It's nonetheless surprising and entertaining to read some of the over-the-top expressions of outrage!

:hi:

[Cha]

40. Thanks bernie for bringing

some facts on board regarding Kaine's mission as the DNC Chairman and reminding us that he is from a 50 state strategy.

Hail to the best DNC Chairman, Dean!:fistbump:

[wyldwolf]

47. how so? He was elected in 2005!

[berni_mccoy]

54. Kaine was behind and the underdog of the election right up to October of 2005

Dean assumed chairmanship of DNC in Feb. 2005.

Kaine won by giving hope to disenfranchised Democrats who felt their party had given up on Virginia and being able to reach Republicans. This was part of Dean's strategy from the beginning.

[wyldwolf]

55. Mark Warner got Kaine elected.

[berni_mccoy]

56. Have to disagree. Mark Warner helped, but could never win in Republican areas.

Kaine won Republican strongholds Warner could never have dreamed of touching.

It was a restoration of Democrats in these areas and reaching some moderate Republicans that did the trick.

[wyldwolf]

57. ok, so what exactly did Dean do in VA that got Kaine elected?

I'm sure you have names, events, polling, etc.?

[berni_mccoy]

59. If you must ask...

Spent time/money in VA promoting the Democratic agenda. Promoting a strong agenda and be willing to ask for the vote in Republican leaning areas.

Only Dean's Democratic Party had the fortitude to do this (the DNC blog is called "Kicking Ass" after all).

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/11/a_great_day_for.php

[wyldwolf]

62. Dean came to VA and did that?

No... KAINE and WARNER did that, along with promises of homeowner tax relief, centrist fiscal leadership and universal pre-kindergarten. A number of factors, from the poll numbers of President George W. Bush to public reaction to the death penalty ads run by Kilgore, have also been cited as key to his decisive win. (wiki)

What was Dean's 50 state strategy doing? Who were his people on the ground?

[berni_mccoy]

64. Oh for crying out loud. HERE

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/08/26/ST2008082600876.html

"I can tell you, there are a whole number of congressional seats that are competitive today because Howard took a national strategy," said Rep. James P. Moran Jr. (D-Va.). "Virginia certainly has benefited from his strategy. I think he deserves a lot of credit, frankly."

[wyldwolf]

66. THAT is a 2008 article about congressional seats. Not one from 2005 about Kaine!

So WHO were the people on the ground for Howard Dean in VA in 2005? What did they do? Where is the testimony?

[berni_mccoy]

67. The DNC started the 50-State Strategy in 2005 and Kaine was benefiting from it by September

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/09/volunteers_make.php?comments=1

[wyldwolf]

68. Completely naive to believe 2005 was the first year volunteers did mailings.

[gravity]

63. Mark Warner helped win Republican areas by being an excellent governor

He was a very popular governor is VA, and it showed when he won the Senate seat against the formal Republican governor of VA by a 2 to 1 margin

[marlakay]

49. Does anyone know what Dean is going to do?? nt

[Left 0f Center]

61. exactly right.

Some here would bitch no matter what. It's just who they are.

[Uzybone]

65. Dean is the man who wanted the confederate flag waver to vote Democratic

I though he was nuts at the time but he was proved to be right. Tim Kaine is just one of the fruits of Deans labor. Very good OP.

[firedupdem]

70. Obama is no dummy. Kaine will do fine in his position along with

all the others. If they don't, they will be replaced. Thanks berni_mccoy!

[Odin2005]

77. People forget that Dean himself is a moderate.

He just happened to be a moderate that understood that the DLC's strategy sucked.