Dean's Remarks Give Rivals Talking Points

[molly]

His Readiness to Lead Is Questioned

BURLINGTON, Vt. -- Howard Dean's penchant for flippant and sometimes false statements is generating increased criticism from his Democratic presidential rivals and raising new questions about his ability to emerge as a nominee who can withstand intense, sustained scrutiny and defeat President Bush.

snip....

Dean's remarks, his critics say, are in keeping with his history of making statements that are mean-spirited or misleading. He has distorted his past support for raising the retirement age for Social Security and slowing Medicare's growth. He has falsely said he was the only Democratic presidential candidate talking about race before white audiences. And he made allegations -- some during his years as governor -- that turned out to be untrue.

After saying at his last gubernatorial news conference that he was sealing his official records to avoid political embarrassment, Dean now says he was joking and is not sure what is in the files.

more....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9661-2003Dec17?
language=printer

This is not a very complimentary article.

[beawr]

1. You have it

This is yet another indication of his unfitness and his inability to get elected. A Dean nomination is a disaster for our party

[deutsey]

2. Our party is a disaster already

and has been since at least 2000.

[HFishbine]

3. But, But, But

Don't you know that the democrat who can manage the support of no more than 7% of the party is the best candidate?

[Renew Deal]

4. Right

I bet you would have said the same thing abuot Clinton in December 91.

[HFishbine]

7. Clinton

got a little more than 7% of the support of the democratic party.

[sandnsea]

9. No, it was 5%

"In a mid-December 1991 KRC poll of NH, 84 percent of the likely Democratic primary voters were undecided. Pressed to make a choice if the primary "was held tomorrow," 47 percent remained undecided. Support was strongest for Tsongas and Cuomo (15%), followed by Clinton (5%), Jerry Brown, Bob Kerrey, Wilder and Harkin. (Harkin dominated his home state, IA, taking that primary out of the nomination-by-momentum process)."

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2003/12/8/175345/280/17

[Nazgul35]

21. and what was he polling in Iowa?

Kerry supporters love to talk about how Clinton was polling in NH...but ignore Iowa....

See Clinton was able to move up in Iowa and was one of the candidates talked about in the lead up to NH....

Are you saying Kerry's going to do well in Iowa? That might explain why he has an all Iowa campiagn right now....holding out hope that this will somehow rescue him for NH....

I'm sorry but I see Clark as the anti-Dean campaign....my prediction is that it is going to be Dean-Clark-Gephardt in Iowa...followed by Dean Clark in NH...than the battle will be between these two campaigns for the rest of february...

[sandnsea]

24. Clark isn't running in Iowa

Kerry and Gephardt are nearly tied in Iowa and Dean is only a few points ahead of that. If Kerry surprises in Iowa, then it could easily change perceptions of his campaign overall.

Clark could well end up ahead based on Feb 3 voting, but not Iowa & NH. And I like Clark really well, by the way.

[bearfartinthewoods]

12. the first thought i had when i heard the 'UN permission' line was

SOMEBODY PLEASE PUT A MUZZLE ON THAT MAN

i see a lot of problems with the UN but, sweet tea, it's the only game in town. adding the idea that the US need permission from the UN to any reasoned discussion of the UN is just so...well i gotta say it STUPID.

just drive 50 miles from philly or pittsburgh and suggest that the US should in anyway ceed sovernty to the UN and see how well that sells.

not to mention the south. experienced, thoughtful dems don't do that if they are looking to attract indies and conservative dems. there is just no 'plus side' to that connection.

[AP]

16. RW used this issue to sink League of Nations.

FDR had to figure out a way NOT to force the US to seek UN permission to do things in order to get UN going.

Things have not changed.

[creativelcro]

5. Really ? Not obvious from the excerpts

>This is not a very complimentary article.

[molly]

8. Remember the Newt thing?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A9661-2003Dec17?language=printer

"But lately, as he courts liberal Democrats nationwide, Dean has distorted portions of his record as governor, when he was generally considered a centrist. He has repeatedly denied siding with Republicans such as then-Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.) in 1995 in calling for slowing Medicare's annual growth from 10 percent to 7 percent, even though he told a Vermont newspaper he "fully subscribed" to the idea."

It's not nice to lie.

[bearfartinthewoods]

22. someone ought to compile a list of all the gaffs and flipflops

i'd do it but my bloodpressure has been acting up lately and i don't need another stroke.

[Scott Lee]

27. From Kerry? That would be enjoyable.

I was not for war well actually I was well maybe not but I was misled come to think of it since saddam was captured I was for war all along huh? Dean's numbers didn't go down? Like I said...I wasn't for war...
I think...

[molly]

36. Kerry was for a RESOLUTION forcing the idiot

to go to the UN. That is posted MANY places on DU.

[Clark Can WIN]

28. FLIP-FLOP LIST ( only partial, but extensive)

Ok here you go.


Flip: In 1992, Dean said, "I don't support the death penalty for two reasons. One, you might have the wrong guy, and, two, the state is like a parent. Parents who smoke cigarettes can't really tell their children not to smoke and be taken seriously. If a state tells you not to murder people, a state shouldn't be in the business of taking people's lives." The Rutland Herald, a Vermont newspaper, says that in those days "Dean was an outspoken opponent of the death penalty."

Flop: In early June 2003, Dean issued a statement declaring, "As governor, I came to believe that the death penalty would be a just punishment for certain, especially heinous crimes, such as the murder of a child or the murder of a police officer. The events of Sept. 11 convinced me that terrorists also deserve the ultimate punishment."

Context: Dean's statement added, "I would instruct my attorney general to seek capital punishment only in very serious cases, including those involving vulnerable victims and those involving terrorism." On June 22, 2003, Dean said on Meet the Press, "The only instances that I support the death penalty are 1) murder of a child, 2) a mass murder like a terrorist, and 3) the shooting of a police officer." He cited a series of 1994 Vermont newspaper articles that documented his rethinking of capital punishment. Dean said the rape-murder of Polly Klaas by a previously convicted sex offender prompted his rethinking. He said he worried that life imprisonment without parole didn't guarantee justice because convicted murderers could still get out on a "technicality." He rejected deterrence (except for cop-killers) and vengeance as arguments for the death penalty. He said he came to support capital punishment because terrorists and child predators are "incapable of being rehabilitated," and "to let these people out is too dangerous."

Flip: On Feb. 28, 1995, Dean said on CNN's Crossfire that Social Security "absolutely" needed to "increase the retirement age." According to a March 3, 1995 Newhouse News Service report on a subsequent Dean breakfast with reporters, "The way to balance the budget, Dean said, is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else." In June 2003, Dean said on Meet the Press, "I also would entertain taking the retirement age to 68."

Flop: At a presidential candidate forum on Aug. 5, 2003, Dean said, "I have never favored Social Security retirement at the age of 70, nor do I favor one of 68."


DEAN FLIP-FLOPS ON COMPLETING MISSION IN IRAQ
March 2003: Dean Ducks Troops Question. “ repeatedly declined to say whether he thinks the United States should withdraw its troops immediately from Iraq, as some vocal war opponents urge. Responding to questions before and during the event, Dean declined to call for the troops’ return, saying he didn’t know the implications for geopolitics and soldiers’ safety and wasn’t privy to intelligence on the ground in Iraq. ‘I didn’t get us into this,’ Dean said. ‘Unfortunately, I’m not president now and I can’t get us out of this.’” (Joanna Weiss, “Dean Ducks Prescription For Quitting Iraq,” The Boston Globe, 3/27/03)

Dean Then Berated Bush For Suggesting American Troops Could Come In 18 Months. “If the President thinks our troops will be out in 18 months, he is smoking something he forgot about when he was at Yale.” (Rebecca Cook, “Howard Dean Rallies Supporters In Seattle,” The Associated Press, 5/15/03)

September 1: Dean Said U.S. Should Not Pull Troops Out Of Iraq. “We can’t leave Iraq. We can’t pull out, because if we do that, chaos ensues or else a fundamentalist Shiite regime may arise with undo Iranian influence, both of which would be more dangerous than Saddam Hussein.” (Howard Dean On CNN’s “Crossfire Goes Inside Politics,” 9/1/03)

ONLY THREE DAYS LATER: In Debate, Dean Said Our Troops Should Come Home From Iraq. DEAN: “We need more troops. They’re going to be foreign troops, as they should have been in the first place, not American troops. Ours need to come home.” (Democrat Presidential Candidates Debate, Albuquerque, NM, 9/4/03)

DEAN FLIP-FLOPS OVER AMERICAN LABOR STANDARDS

July 2003: Dean Called For Strict American Labor Standards For International Trade. “Unlike U.S. Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio, Dean doesn’t want to get rid of the North American Free Trade Agreement. ‘This trade is important to America. It’s important for our national defense,’ Dean said. ‘But we need the same labor standards in Mexico and China as you have in the United States, and the same environmental standards.’” (Lynn Okamoto, “Dean Calls Economy Top Issue For 2004 Race,” The Des Moines Register, 7/19/03)

Dean Backpedaled In Debate, Saying International Standards Could Work. LIEBERMAN: “ay I say just briefly that Governor Dean … referred to American standards, not international standards.” DEAN: “Either is fine with me.” LIEBERMAN: “Well, then that’s a reassuring change of position.” (Democrat Presidential Candidates Debate, Albuquerque, NM, 9/4/03)


…To an Ever-Growing List of Dean Flip-Flops:

DEAN FLIP-FLOPPED ON PUBLIC FINANCING OF HIS 2004 CAMPAIGN

Summer 2003 Public Financing Flip-Flop: Dean “backed away from his pledge to adhere to spending limits, saying some advisers want to explore opting out of the Watergate-era public financing system because of his sudden fund-raising success. … ‘Could we change our mind? Sure,’ he said. … “Dean signed a letter to the promising to abide by the program’s rules, including its spending limits.” (Ron Fournier, “Dean Pulls Back On Spending Limits Pledge,” The Associated Press, 8/15/03)

DEAN ALSO FLIP-FLOPPED ON PUBLIC FINANCING OF HIS 2000 CAMPAIGN!

July 2000 Public Financing Flip: “Gov. Howard Dean is challenging his Republican opponents to accept a $300,000 campaign spending cap even if a federal judge overturns the limit. … ‘This law is important in restoring public faith in the election process,’ Dean said in a prepared statement. ‘Vermonters need to know that their small donations are just as important as a $1,000 check from a multi-national corporation or PAC (political action committee).’ Dean said he was at a financial disadvantage, first because he had a lower spending limit as an incumbent, but also because he faced two challengers who were likely to have at least $300,000 apiece.” (“Dean Challenges Republicans To Spending Limits,” The Associated Press, 7/21/00)

August 2000 Public Financing Flop: “Gov. Howard Dean abandoned public funding for his re-election campaign, saying he couldn’t take the chance he would be outspent 4-1 by his Republican opponent. Publicly financed campaigns were part of strict campaign finance reform legislation championed by Dean, who signed it into law in 1997. … Progressive Party gubernatorial candidate Anthony Pollina, the only candidate now using public funding, criticized Dean’s decision. ‘I am not surprised. In some way it shows his true colors,’ Pollina said. ‘Ultimately, it’s a victory for big money and bad for average citizens.’” (Wilson Ring, “Governor Abandons Public Funding,” The Associated Press, 8/18/00)

DEAN FLIP-FLOPPED ON LIFTING CUBA EMBARGO

Dean Once Favored Lifting Cuba Embargo, Now Says It Would Be Wrong. “Howard Dean, who sells himself as the presidential campaign’s straightest shooter, is starting to throw voters some curves. … Last weekend, Dean shifted his position on the trade embargo against Cuba. Dean, who had supported rolling back the embargo to foment human rights improvements, said he has become convinced such a move would be unwise. Cuban Americans, who generally support the embargo, are an important voting bloc in several states, including Florida.” (Jim VandeHei, “Dean Invites More Scrutiny By Switching Key Stances,” The Washington Post, 8/30/03)

DEAN FLIP-FLOPPED ON YUCCA MOUNTAIN

1996 Governor Dean Yucca Mountain Flip: “I am urging you to support changes in the Nuclear Waste Policy Act that would ensure that the federal government meets its responsibility to electricity consumers to begin accepting spent fuel from commercial power plants in 1998. … Opponents assert that the shipment of nuclear waste is highly unsafe, but the facts prove otherwise. Over the past 30 years, more than 2000 shipments of spent nuclear fuel have been made on the nation’s highways and railways. No shipment has ever resulted in a release of radioactivity or public harm. … I sincerely hope you will support S. 1271 to establish an integrated spent fuel management program that includes a centralized, interim storage facility, continued site characterization of the potential repository at Yucca Mountain in Nevada, and an appropriate transportation system to move spent fuel.” (Gov. Howard Dean, Letter To Sen. Patrick Leahy, 5/1/96)

2003 Candidate Dean Yucca Mountain Flop: REPORTER: “As governor, you supported a plan to store the nation’s waste at Yucca Mountain, Nev. Do you still think this is a good solution?” DEAN: “As governor of Vermont, it was a grand idea because it would get the waste out of Vermont. But now that I’m running for president, I’ve got to reassess it and see what the science looks like.” (Amanda Griscom, “Q&A: Howard Dean On The Environment,” Alternet Website, www.alternet.org, Accessed 6/4/03)

DEAN FLIP-FLOPPED ON DEATH PENALTY

“Opportunist” Dean Now Supports The Death Penalty In Some Cases. “Vermont liberals say Dean’s governing history suggests more of a political tactician, a strategic opportunist who will ultimately run a campaign that inspires the middle as well as the left. … Some years back, reversed his opposition to the death penalty and now supports it in some cases.” (Terry M. Neal, “Will The Real Howard Dean Please Stand Up?” Washingtonpost.com, 7/31/03)

In Disastrous ‘Meet The Press’ Appearance, Dean Admitted To Death Penalty Flip-Flop. “An appearance on ‘Meet the Press’ by Dr. Dean on Sunday, arranged by his aides as part of this announcement swing, turned into what even some Dean supporters described today as something of a debacle, highlighting many areas of attacks Dr. Dean would be subject to in a general election or a primary. … Dr. Dean also acknowledged that he had changed his position on the death penalty -- he now supports it in some cases, after once having been a strong opponent …” (Adam Nagourney, “After A Year Campaigning, Dean Officially Enters Race,” The New York Times, 6/24/03)

DEAN FLIP-FLOPPED ON FEDERAL MEDICAL LIABILITY REFORM

1994 Federal Medical Liability Reform Flip: DEAN: “We’ve absolutely got to have malpractice reform. Absolutely. And I think it ought to be done at the federal level. In fact, that’s -- I think all 50 governors think that.” (CNN’s “Viewers Call In With Health Care Questions,” 7/18/94)

2002 Federal Medical Liability Reform Flop: DEAN: “As a doctor, I’d love to have all kinds of malpractice reform. That is not the federal government’s business. This administration, for all its talk about states’ prerogatives and local control, doesn’t believe in it. They simply substituted conservative micromanagement for what used to be liberal micromanagement. It’s like gun control. That is a state matter, not a federal matter.” (CNN’s “Capital Gang,” 10/5/02)

DEAN FLIP-FLOPPED ON RETIREMENT AGE

1995 Governor Dean Retirement Age Flip: DEAN: “Secondly, I am very pleased to hear Bob Packwood because I absolutely agree we need to … increase the retirement age. There will be cuts and losses of some benefits, but I believe that Senator Packwood is on exactly the right track. … ” (CNN’s “Crossfire,” 2/28/95)

2003 Candidate DeanRetirement Age Flop: RUSSERT: “Would you raise retirement age to 70?” DEAN: “No. No.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 6/22/03)

DEAN FLIP-FLOPPED ON CREATING
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY

2002 Homeland Security Flip: Asked what he thought of the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, Dean said: “I don’t have a quarrel with bureaucracy. I wouldn’t do it that way, but I think everyone does their own thing. … I’m not going to attack the President for trying to create a homeland security office—it’s a reasonable thing to do.” (Ann Rostow, “Give ‘Em Hell Howard,” Texas Triangle, 9/5-10/02)

2003 Homeland Security Flop: Howard Dean “‘says the creation of a homeland security department was a mistake and that Tom Ridge is the wrong man for the job.’ In an interview with CQ Homeland Security’s Freedman, Dean said: ‘I would not have created the Department of Homeland Security.’ He added: ‘Creating a new bureaucracy is rarely the actual solution to creating efficiency.’” (“Dean Takes On Homeland Security, Tom Ridge,” The Hotline, 5/21/03)

DEAN FLIP-FLOPPED ON CUTTING SOCIAL SECURITY

1995 Governor Dean Social Security Flip: “The way to balance the budget, Dean said, is for Congress to cut Social Security, move the retirement age to 70, cut defense, Medicare and veterans pensions, while the states cut almost everything else. ‘It would be tough but we could do it,’ he said.” (Miles Benson, “And Politicians Wonder Why They Aren’t Trusted,” Times-Picayune , 3/5/95)

2003 Candidate DeanSocial Security Flop: RUSSERT: “But you would no longer cut Social Security benefits?” DEAN: “But you don’t--no. I’m not ever going to cut Social Security benefits.” (NBC’s “Meet The Press,” 6/22/03)

[oasis]

37. Wow. Rove and his $200,000,000 will have a field day with that info. The

general election will be a cinch win for the Bushistas.

[blm]

39. That's the problem. Deanies hold Dean to NO standard of truth

or consistency and BRAG that he has 'evolved' on issues that others have taken principled stands on for many years.

That is the attitude that has the RNC research team dancing on tables. THEY will not show mercy. Dean's words will be used to portray the whole party as deceptive dissemblers who change positions to pander for support.

[scipan]

6. For those who slept through Gore's campaign

they will read this kind of story unquestioningly. But I wouldn't expect to find many at DU who don't remember the "I invented the internet" type distortions & outright lies.

[sandnsea]

10. Certainly I remember

These ain't them.

[dsc]

11. There are several times in this article

that the reporters are the liars. Under rules I can't quote all of them but will just chose one.

In January, Dean told an abortion rights audience about a young patient he believed had been impregnated by her father. He was explaining why he opposes parental notification requirements for girls and young women seeking an abortion. But Dean later told Jake Tapper of Salon.com that he learned several years ago that "her father was not the father of her child; it was more complicated than that."

The lying reporter counts this as a lie. I happened to have heard him tell this on MTP. His point was that regardless of if his suspicions was right or wrong he still would have had to tell that parent under parental notification. The fact is, thank goodness for the girl and the father, his suspicion was wrong. But the fact is he could have been right and under many forms of parental notification it wouldn't have matter a whit if he were.

sorry should have proofed this I didn't intent to ask the question belowin bold.

I ask this question in all seriousness. Have you posted even one positive thing about Kerry ever? I honestly can't recall ever reading a thread initiated by you that didn't either trash Dean or his supporters. If my candidate were so bad, and frankly Kerry isn't, that I couldn't do anything but post garbage about other people I would bother supporting him.

[molly]

14. Positive thing about Kerry - most other Kerry supporters

usually beat me to it!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=102387

[dsc]

17. I guess that counts

but I meant things like his stands on issues. In the most technical of senses that counts. I sincerely hope that was merely the first example that came to mind and not the best one you could find.

BTW Here is an example of what I meant.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=934645

I honestly can't recall every seeing a thread close to that from you. Not a one. I hope it is just that I didn't see one and not that you never have posted one.

[molly]

19. That was an exceptional post!

and made many good points!

DrFunk, Nick, DJ, and many others have excellent posts on Kerry. I certainly cannot compete, nor would I want to! :shrug:

I support those that have the time and incentive to do the research -I applaud them! :toast: You go guys! :bounce:

[dsc]

23. I am not saying it wasn't

nor am I saying only posts as well thought out and researched as that was would have counted. But again, I have literally never seen a thread by you that said in any issue oriented way, why you support Kerry and I frankly find the idea there may well be none profoundly sad. Even if it is for the stated reason.

[molly]

25. There have been threads by me - not lately

since I work MANY hours. Happy now?

[curse10]

13. Interesting article

but I already knew most of the stuff in it. Not surprising.

[Armstead]

15. This is the reason we'll never get straight talk from pols

One fo the things that impressed me about Howard Dean is that he talks like a real person, rather than in pre-programmed soundbites.

In today's media and politcal hack culture, that makes him a target for asshole attacks like the "Dean claimed Bush knew about 9-11" when in fact Dean simply said that the administration's secrecy feeds rumors like that, which he pesonally didn't believe.

If we demand that our politicians simply be robots insteads of human beings, then that's what we'll get. And status qup politics will conmtinue.

[RogueTrooper]

18. Well said Armstead

:yourock: with dignity.

[molly]

20. I do not view ANY of our candidates

as robots. They are all human beings!

[Clark Can WIN]

26. We need to get busy and think about the GENERAL ELECTORATE people

That's the road to the White House. Ordinary Joes and Tiffanys. This man is a lodestone to certain defeat in "04.

I know they will attack any nominee but WHY pray tell give them so damn much to work with?

Somebody answer me this one, and not with another question, mmmmmmkay? Dean said he would release his records as soon as George W. Bush released his. W. records ARE release so why has Howard not made an effort to follow through on his word? I'm not talking about coping out with yet another bullshit excuse, I'm talking about actively making an effort to follow through on his word.

[Scott Lee]

29. In fact, GWB's records are virtually locked up.

They are sitting in Daddy's library. Tell you what, go give it a shot and try to access any of them. Get back to us and tell us how it went.

Here's the deal, Howard Dean can put his records in a similar comfy little escrow, and then they both agree to release them....REALLY release them....to the public. Do you think the Chimp will comply?

Do you think that Dean critics will be honest for a change about the natures of both men's records? Nah.

[windansea]

38. right now

Bush's records are more accessible than Dean's

care to 'splain it'

[Cheswick2.0]

33. So we are supposed to pick candidates the repulbicans will be happy with

that is you message? They don't pick candidates to please us. Obviously more democrats feel that Dean can win than feel that Clark can win. The difference is that Dean supporters see him as fighting republicans and appealing to new voters, while you seem to think we should pander to republicans.

[windansea]

30. posted this last night

Under subject title "More Dean Fibs - Washington Post"

thread got locked..guess it was not an accurate title??

I think Dean supporters are in deanial on this issue...it's not gonna go away.

[molly]

35. If you post an article and want to discuss it

you need to post the title of the article as the title to your thread! Then you can say - in the body of your post - "More Dean Fibs". Nope, it's not going away. :toast:

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. He's not sure what is in the files?

now that's a joke. surely.

[mjv135]

34. Does it matter?

Dean gets his campaign noticed by dissing the war resolution, never mind that he didn't actually have to put his balls on the line and actually cast a vote, now we find he DID support a resolution for unilateral war. Split hairs all you want, for someone who made an entire campaign out bashing the people who DID actually have to vote, and even one who didn't-Clark- this should've really hit his integrity question. It didn't. He made a huge charachter issue out of campaign financing, then completely reversed himself. It didn't matter. Screamed at Bush for keeping so much of his administration secretive, then refused to un-seal his own administrations records. Didn't matter.
Why does this man remind me SO MUCH of George W. Bush?

[Hep]

40. Yeah, it's Dean's fault no one can stop talking about him

evil evil man.

[maddezmom]

41. he's got to expect it, being the front runner

[Hep]

42. It's not the constant chatter

but rather how low his opponents are willing to sink in their efforts to bring him down. It's become quite obvious that none of them have anything good to say about themselves.