Ohio has lost 1000's of jobs with AWOL -- why would people support him?

[cthrumatrix]

This state puzzles me.

Ohio has been hit as hard as any other state. Chimp goes in there and shares "how tough it must be" and "we have to keep training"...and walks away.

And the people buy this "bullshit"... chimp DOES NOT have a plan.

[JI7]

1. they think Kerry is soft on defense

which is why Kerry is trying to make the point that to be stronger, we need a stronger economy also.

[Richardson08]

2. So vote for Bush and starve,is that a better alternative?

[JI7]

4. people don't think in ways that make sense all the time

for now most people just make quick reactions to things they hear which are mostly soundbytes rather than actually look into things and make decisions based on info and facts.

[cthrumatrix]

5. I would have thought ...the saying- "vote your pocketbook is relevant

for these and others affected by the poor economy, 45 million w/o healthcare etc...

[cthrumatrix]

3. if they want a stronger economy - start by "firing the chimp".....

I'm not following the logic.

[greenohio]

27. So many are just pro-life

They say other things, like defense. But when you ask if Kerry had the exact same defense policy, they say they still wouldn't vote for him. There is just no swaying the pro-life voter.

[seabeyond]

6. i am to the point talking to all the poor and strugglin

people i know and saying, i am not going to be hurt. my husband doesnt make enough where he gets bush advantages, we get hit the hardest where he sits in pay, and he owns a small business, hit the hardest to make up for all the corporate not paying, but.........my father has money and husbands father has even more money. so we are going to be ok. bush is going to ultimately be helping us, why all you dogs are voting for him i dont get. yawl dont have the cushion that i do.

i dont get it either.

[cthrumatrix]

7. I don't even know how you are ahead... tax plans are the same up to $190K

for a married couple w/ two kids.

Propety taxes going to moon...insurance to the moon. Stock Market has been dismal for 4 yrs.

I don't see where chimp has been better in any category.

[seabeyond]

16. not that i would personally know, lol lol like i said

but i understand you have millions and it is a good thing. but..... now that you mention property tax, insurance, market, lol lol and sales tax from what i understand ect. you are right

[BillZBubb]

8. Sadly, most Ohioans don't care about those 1000's

They've still got jobs. Harsh, but true. And, since Ohio is a conservative state, Kerry isn't too popular, even if Bush* is a phony conservative.

Rove has done an impressive job of bringing fear to the forefront of the election. Play on people's fears and they will vote against their self-interest in order to be "safe".

[cthrumatrix]

9. safe...? 911 happened on chimps watch with a 8/6/01 PDB that said

OBL to attack the US

Then he goes away from Afghan...away from who attacked us for a fraudulnet war which kills 1000's in Iraq.

And that is good..?

Fear has been induced by the media by the WH.... the reality is shrub cannot promise a damn thing.

[arewenotdemo]

17. Kerry needs a commercial that shows Bin Laden at large...

just a montage of him and Zawahiri strolling through the mountains, him speaking at a dinner party, whatever.

But make the damn point that he's still out there running his operation, and that Cheerleader Boy's hard-on for Hussein is the reason why.

And run the damn quote: "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

[newyawker99]

23. Hi arewenotdemo!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bushwakker]

10. b/c they'd rather hate blacks, gays and arabs than have jobs

stupid white guys.

[mitchum]

11. I believe that is indeed the ugly truth...

same here in Georgia (they don't call them stupid rednecks for nothing)

[bushwakker]

15. I can say that as a smart white guy

[mitchum]

18. I see and say the same from that perspective also

It is really a pity that so many will vote against their own economic/ material interest merely in order to stick it to "them" But that was the republican gameplan begun 40 years ago

[bushwakker]

20. it's easier

to find a convenient scapegoat for your own failures than to take a good hard look in the mirror. this may sound harsh but i believe that most gop voters are motivated by bigotry or greed or both.

[Chili]

22. I agree

...and what people seem to keep forgetting is that Ohio is a REPUBLICAN state - we have a GOP-controlled supreme court, both Senators are GOP, and the governor is a Republican. STOP expecting this state to suddenly turn liberal, it's not going to happen. We're liberal in the cities - but out in the rural areas, it's Bush country.

[TexasBushwhacker]

12. Well, it certainly could be better

But as of August 28th, Kerry was at 48% and Bush was 46%. This is compared to 2000, when Bush got 50% and Gore only 46%. These numbers are according to Rasmussen:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/Ohio%20August%2028.htm

[cthrumatrix]

47. I realize the polls are close but the reason why a laid-off owrker

helping shrub is baffling...he has done nothing for workers

[johnnyrocket]

13. I am flabbergasted by those Ohio numbers!

What's wrong with those Ohioans!?!?!?

[cthrumatrix]

25. the recent speeches by Kerry on ISSUES should help

[Demobrat]

14. Maybe they don't think Kerry's plan to create jobs

by giving tax breaks to small businesses will work, or maybe they don't understand it. Since W's plan to create jobs by giving tax breaks to big corporations didn't work, why should they believe that giving tax breaks to small businesses will?

[cthrumatrix]

24. cutting the tax loopholes would...read his plan WSJ page A20 Today

[oasis]

19. Dont' believe those polls. It makes more sense that Ohio's poll numbers

are being manipulated. Rove seeks validation for Bush's failed policies and is using Ohio as his model state.

America's eyes are on Ohio.

[Chili]

21. thank you Oasis

..very true.

Can we try to have this discussion without turning it into another Ohio-bashing thread? I'm sick of it. Morale is low enough in some places, making derogatory comments is JUST what we need.

Please?

Thanks.

I just got back from a volunteer meeting for a different county (I'm in Cuyahoga), and the Dem. party organizer for that county said that 13,000 new voters have been registered, and they've even got a backlog, there've been so many registration forms, they haven't caught up yet. And, he told us that Cuyahoga county (Cleveland, Shaker Hts) has registered 80,000. That's 93,000 in just 2 counties - all Democrats.

The campus and party buzz is that students, new registered voters, are going 65% for Kerry. These people are NOT included in any poll.

Don't pay attention to the polls. But if Ohio - a conservative state, and always has been - goes for Bush, it shouldn't be any surprise, and unfortunately makes Ohio no worse than any other state that does.

[cthrumatrix]

26. what do you see locally..?

[Chili]

29. I live in Cuyahoga county...

...traditionally liberal, especially my side of town. No way to gauge this from my standpoint, but I'll know more next week. I'm doing my first phone banking stint tomorrow, with 2 more scheduled for next week. But I have yet to see a Bush/Cheney bumper sticker or sign UP HERE in N.E. Ohio - I saw my first 2 Bush signs last night, in Stark county (90 minutes to the south, Timken country, where many jobs have been lost. But this residential area displaying the Bush/Cheney signs is affluent, and does NOT reflect the middle class workers who are now jobless). Reading what I just typed may sound contradictory, but it's not; Ohio has pockets of great wealth sometimes sitting right on top of struggling communities. My own neighborhood is smack-dab between a wealthy suburb and another demolished by unemployment.

I will say this, though: the county organizer who came to a "barnstorming" meeting over the weekend (Cuyahoga county) was very enthusiastic and optomistic - Bush winning in Ohio was not even a thought in his mind, or in anybody else's there. While I admit to being obsessed with the state polls too, I also know in my heart that the story lies elsewhere: on the ground.

[cthrumatrix]

31. grass roots is the only way with the anit-Kerry media. what about Diebold?

Do voters talk about electronis vote theft...are Ohio folks planning to monitor the voting places?

thanks

[Chili]

36. yes

...there will be poll-watchers at the precincts, LAWYERS who know the law.

And Diebold machines will NOT be used in Ohio. While it's always an issue, I don't think Ohio will have any problems with legitimacy. As far as I'm aware, it hasn't been an issue.

[AngryOldDem]

41. Another View from Ohio

...I believe Diebold will not be used this election.

And yes, they are planning to monitor voting places. I had an e-mail this morning about this very subject with a contact name and e-mail. And yes, I did volunteer to poll watch. (They also put out a special call for lawyers and others who are knowledgable on election law.)

Personally, I think the Ohio polls are bullshit, especially the ones that have us going to Bush. There is active grassroots support for Kerry. It's just that the fundies and rural voters are the loudest, and the ones the media most like to play up, but they don't represent the entire state (take note, Ohio bashers). I live in a heavily GOP section of Montgomery County (Dayton) that will be key to a Kerry win. If I had to guess based on precinct walks alone, Bush and Kerry are pretty near tied, with an undecided margin of 10%. I would say that a majority of undecideds are trending toward Kerry. This is a big change since 2000, and I can't believe that it is an isolated case. Montgomery County is heavily union, with a lot of lower- to middle-class neighborhoods that have been hit hard by the economy. (Conversely, though, it also has a strong military presence with Wright-Pat next door. But as I said, the economy has hit this area hard.)

All I can do is keep saying that nobody should be putting much credence in these polls, based on what I see and hear. First-hand experience should count for something.

[cthrumatrix]

42. glad to hear and keep working hard in Ohio...

[Catfight]

28. I think everyone has been asking that question lately and Bush

hasn't really been able to say why to vote for him, but he sure can say things about his opponent! The best they've come up with is their new campaign slogan, VOTE CHENEY/BUSH or DIE.

[cthrumatrix]

32. read Kerry's economic editorial in today WSJ page A20...it shares

his plan to bring back jobs etc...

and share it

[leftofthedial]

30. about half of americans are stupid

[cthrumatrix]

33. but..they need jobs..and they could be voting for a draft in '05

[leftofthedial]

39. but they are too stupid to understand this

stupid

stupid f**king people.


stupid.

[Road Scholar]

34. Ignorance!!!!

It's so apparent. That's exactly what the Rove/Murdock propaganda thrives on.

[cthrumatrix]

35. ask these ingonrat people do they want to go to Iraq & a job.

[Road Scholar]

37. After a good dose of repuke propaganda....

they have a way to shield themselves from all logic. It's very frustrating to see such good people turn into little robot disciples. It's really troublesome to think what that can cause.

[cthrumatrix]

38. facts have a way of helping...ask where their Tax Cut went?

did it cover the rises in health care, property taxes, college, and what about medicare sham?

These issues affect people...if they knew them.

[Road Scholar]

40. All true......

That's what makes it so frustrating.It's really scary to see this many people so blinded by pure bullshit.

[Road Scholar]

44. Not just Ohio

I'm from NC, and it's the same here.Ordinarilly, just good folks, seem to lose their freakin' mind after watching Fox News and listening to clown Rush.

[EastOhioDem]

43. just yesterday

I was at work, and there was almost a fight in the parking lot. Two guys in a pickup and another guy. One of the men in the pickup saw a 'w' sticker on the other guys vehicle. OMG..started yelling at him..what the hell are you thinking???..are you stupid or something?? The man getting yelled at said he didn't know who put those stickers on his car and that he didn't do it. Suffice it to say, the man in the car took off pretty quick. The point of this post is, there are a lot of pissed off people in Eastern Ohio. Don't count Ohio out just yet.

[truthspeaker]

45. Bill Maher explained this very well on Larry King the other night.

Bush makes certain people feel good. It's not about policies or actions; they don't even pay attention to that confusing stuff. He gets on TV and puts his arm around a firefighter (or an actor playing one) and certain voters get the warm fuzzies inside. They have been sold a character just like advertisers sell a product, and they're buying it.

[cthrumatrix]

46. meanwhile...he steals from your pocket and gives to his friends

this cannot go on....!