If Geitner resigns, it will cripple Obama politically.

[woolldog]

You guys calling for him to resign do know that right?

[leftstreet]

1. How will it cripple him?

:shrug:

[Unsane]

67. serious question?

[Uzybone]

2. They don't care about that

Some would prefer Obama be crippled so they can say "I told you so".

55 days on the job and "liberals" are calling on him to resign. Dumb.

[brentspeak]

3. Bull.

It's not uncommon for brand-new Presidents to have a shaky start right out of the starting-gate. The public is not going to turn their back on Obama because he makes an replacement early in his administration. And the anger over the bailouts and bonuses is only going to grow stronger. Replacing Geithner with someone who won't be Wall St.'s enabler could only help Obama.

[TheWebHead]

4. it will also cause a 15% drop in the stock market

when Code Pink and House Republicans agree on something, I feel safe adopting the opposing view, especially when the spirit of the argument derives from economic neophytes thinking they have the best ideas in dealing with complex financial instruments.

[Kdillard]

31. Exactly .

[soothsayer]

32. Putting in Fed foxes to watch the hen house is a perennially stupid idea

Honestly. You naive supporters sound like the people who believed Paulson and were all in favor of rushing through the original oversight-less bailouts that have done NOTHING but robbed us.

[Chulanowa]

5. Economics trump politics

All the political power in the world isn't going to do your country any good if your economic policy is shit. It's been demonstrated time and again. You cannot have stable politics without a stable economy... And it's been shown time and again that the cours American economists advocate is a piece of shit designed to be foisted onto third world nations to plunder them for American gain.

Obama needs a Keynesian economist, dammit.

[FrenchieCat]

6. Pretty soon, we will have a supply side again.....

AIG Bonuses---> trees
2010 Budget ----> Forest
EFCA---> Forest
Health Care reform ---> Forest
Defense Dept. Cuts ----> Forest
Education Reform ----> Forest

[Hippo_Tron]

18. Very good analogy

The AIG bonuses are certainly not a good thing. But in the grand scheme of things they aren't a huge deal. People yelling "moral hazard" over AIG bonuses don't get it any more than Santelli and co. yelling "moral hazard" over bailing people out who probably should've bought a smaller house. They both miss the big picture.

[woolldog]

17. w/o political power Obama is powerless to do

any of what you'd like him to do.

[moundsview]

7. Most people in this country can't even name their

representative let alone even know who Geithner is.

Try a little perspective.

This is Obama administration, it will succeed or fail on his back.

Hell, I had to edit twice to get his name right!

[Clio the Leo]

34. you nailed it!

Obama lives in a bubble.

And so do we. (His just has more antiques in it.)

Ask the average person on the street if they are upset about whether or not Geithner is being dishones about when he leared about the bonues and they'd say, "who?"

And THEN they'd say, "ha ha, did you see your man Obama on Leno last night! He's really got me thinking. I dont agree with everything he stands for, but I think we're in good hands."

[dkf]

8. Maybe if Geithner had his missing 18 deputies he could get his

job done.

Its not fair to attack Geithner when we haven't given him decent support. We've given him 15 fires to put out and he's had to do it with 3 firetrucks.

Seriously, what do you expect?

[babylonsister]

9. Thanks so much. Very good point. nt

[woolldog]

11. Also it seems like people expect him to be as smooth as a PR agent.

in front of the cameras. He's not going to be. And so what if he isn't? In the long run that's meaningless. Doesn't mean he doesn't know what he's doing.

[dkf]

14. Yup. I thought I felt overwhelmed for Obama, but

the thought of Geithner's situation makes me freak out even more.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. He could use some lessons but he doesn't have time with all of those missing deputies

It is important that the Treasury Secretary have some communication skills and those are something his press secretary could work with him on when time permits. But when you're working 24/7 with no help to solve a crisis, there really is not the time.

[Jim Sagle]

10. If Obama takes advice like yours, it will zero out his political capital

and annihilate what still remains of the world economy. Geithner and Summers must go forthwith.

[dkf]

12. I agree that Summers is a disaster.

I was laughing when he was trying to defend paying the bonuses. It was weak.

[woolldog]

15. I'm in favor of paying the bonuses too.

[dkf]

19. Ooh I hope you are kidding.

Rewarding people for losing billions is just plain wrong. I'd pursue those individual for fraudulently misrepresenting the company's ability to pay off the credit default swaps.

[woolldog]

21. I'm completely serious.

The retention bonuses were designed to keep the traders on the job until they could unwind their positions in an orderly manner. Many of those who received bonuses relied on the promise of a bonus and didn't jump ship, possibly passing up other lucrative opportunities in the process. That is my understanding at least. You can't go in, after the fact, after these things have been agreed to, and nullify them.

It's an oppresive use of government power to target a small group of (now) unpopular individuals. I am extremely uncomfortable with that. It's a slippery slope. You know the old poem:

First they came for the derivatives traders, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a derivatives trader.

Then they came for the lawyers, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a lawyer.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.


Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.

[dkf]

22. Isn't that like paying the guy with the bomb so he'll close it down in an

orderly fashion?

[woolldog]

23. No. it's not.

It's more like asking the guy who built the bomb for us to give us the specs before he goes on sabbatical....and making it worth his while to do so.

[dkf]

24. Isn't that the guy who always gets killed by the terrorists?

In 24 land that is...

[woolldog]

25. haha

:rofl:

[soothsayer]

30. Um, WHAT lucrative opportunities? the finance world has crumbled in case you haven't noticed

It's like paying retention bonuses to loggers when there's only 1 tree left.

[AyanEva]

36. LOL

I see the best/funniest analogies on this site.

[democracy1st]

68. LOL this guy is supporting bonus's for people who should be on their way to jail!

[eridani]

42. Derivatives traders ARE the people who came for everybody else

Put them all up against the wall and shoot them, and the economy will improve.

[cascadiance]

60. Maybe for some of the people at the bottom...

Which is why I think their proposed tax is anything that's higher than a certain amount...

And where are these people going to all "flock to". The industry both financial and other places is in a tatters now, and not many people are hiring. Most companies aren't paying raises now, whether they are a financial services company or some other company.

I certainly don't see that those jerks getting $1 million as a "retention bonus" at the top deserve to get a bonus for basically helping drive the company into the ground AND expecting and directing a bonus to themselves in exchange. Those are the people that the company is better off not having in power anyway.

[Jim Sagle]

20. Tim Geithner, is that you?

[amborin]

55. agree; good article the other day on why paying the bonuses is good

if we don't pay the bonuses, we break the legal contracts

next thing...we wind up like Russia....no contracts honored, no rule of law

[noiretextatique]

59. union contracts weren't honored

retirees lost health care as a result. some contracts are "honored" others aren't.

[amborin]

66. well, you're right,and it's sickening!

[democracy1st]

69. not only that when it came to who would recieve bailout funds no one questioned

the financial sector,but manufacturing went thru loops for considerably less

[woolldog]

13. LOL

No ideologues please.

[TheWebHead]

26. another analogy

I think this is like a bunch of angry passengers upset with the pilot for flying into turbulence when he was warned ahead of time but was trying to save time... and the passengers instead of just being upset about it and wanting reforms going forward from the airline would instead charge the cabin and pull him from the pilot seat... whether that be Geithner or AIG derivatives specialists... so blinded by their anger they don't think ahead about who will be able to land the plane.

[Optical.Catalyst]

27. When Geitner resigns, it will dominate one weekend news cycle

Meet the Press will have top news story for one Sunday morning, and then the news value of a Cabinet resignations will be exhausted. After that, only the most studious of political wonks will even remember the name 'Geitner' in a year.

[bklyncowgirl]

28. If Geithner doesn't resign it may cripple Obama politically.

It's becoming pretty clear that the idea to allow those fine folks at AIG came not out of Congress but from the Treasury Department. We know that Geithner prevailed over Obama's political team regarding executive compensation for bailed out Wall Street firms. He probably should have been dumped when it turned out that he had failed to master that highly technical program known as Turbo Tax and as a result had failed to do what millions of his fellow Americans do--that is pay his taxes. Unfortunately, Obama stood by his man--well at least he's loyal.

Frankly, Geithner and Summers are too much within the go go Wall Street mindset to do what needs to be done. You watch these guys on TV and they are clearly uncomfortable discussing what apparently to them is as sacred--actually more sacred than the US Constitution--that Wall Street's movers and shakers are tha masters of the universe and that they deserve whatever a grateful nation can give them--even when they lead that nation to disaster.

Unless they can demonstrate, soon, like immediately, that they understand that these guys screwed up royally and deserve only the scorn of a great nation, they will continue to cripple their President.

As for the nation--that is us--forget about universal health care, energy independence and all of the other great things that we have looked with joy and hope for the Obama adminstration to bring about. Unless they can get this mess fixed ain't none of this going to happen.

[acmavm]

29. Doing the right thing will 'cripple' Obama? Then what's that tell you?

Fuck this shit. We didn't come all this way to allow incompetents or faux democrats take us down again.

This is not Free Republic. And I for one don't belong to the cult of Bots who have no problem accepting from this administration what they knew to be disgustingly wrong and corrupt from the last one.

[saltpoint]

33. I haven't heard much talk of resignation from the White House at all and

although the Republicans are calling for heads to roll, the public isn't endorsing the Republicans' version of the story.

In the event that Obama's hand is forced and he has to dismiss Geitner he could announce a convincing replacement simultaneously and would actually come out ahead in public approval, IMO.

[Clio the Leo]

37. Right. And instead, the President does THIS yesterday....

... about five feet away from the assembled press pool.

Giethner isn't going anywhere any time soon. You speak against Geithner, you speak against the President. He made that clear. That's your right I suppose, but the very reason I voted for the man was that I truly believe he knows more about these matters than most of us and is more capable of dealing with them than is any random internet poster. ;)

[saltpoint]

44. Hi, Clio. It's too early to second-guess the contents of talk between

Obama and his staff/advisors. I don't claim to know what's going to happen. But I do feel that Barack Obama is bringing a lot more smarts to the job than his predecessor. I'm willing to wait and see what comes of this.

The public is now pervasively distrustful of AIG / The Banks / Big Money. In a climate where Main Street voters demand economic justice we might also have a better shot at meaningful health care reform. It's not that great a leap between greedy Bankers and greedy Pharmaceutical execs.

[Clio the Leo]

35. My question for those who want him out is....

... WHO do you want him to be replaced with?

Sure, you can suggest some economic idea like, "he should be replaced with a Keynesian economist!" but unless you can gimme a name, I humbly suggest the President may know more about this than you do.

And if you CAN give us a name, why are you telling us and not lobbying the President for your replacement choice?

[woolldog]

45. They want him replaced with Noam Chomsky.

:rofl:

[Sebastian Doyle]

48. I don't recall anybody nominating him

But he couldn't do any worse than the Wall Street Whores for the last 28 years.

[Sebastian Doyle]

47. Robert Reich

And if you can give me the President's direct line, I'll call him right now. (I wouldn't expect Rahm Emanuel to deliver the message)

[Clio the Leo]

65. lol, apparently even Geithner doesn't have his direct line but....

... I WILL give you THIS! ;)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. He's not going to resign

We'll be out of recession by October, and all the hyperventilating clowns will have been wrong once again, just like when they thought Palin was a real threat, that women wouldn't vote for Obama, that Obama might lose PA (he won by 11%), and all the other hyped up nonsense these idiots believed. It's the same fucking people, believing the same stupid media narrative over and over and over again. How anyone can take them seriously is a complete mystery.

[chieftain]

39. I watched this movie before. The first salvo of the GOP attack

on Carter was getting Bert Lance to resign. I have concerns about Geitner but as long as Obama has confidence in him, I refuse to join the media/RW chorus calling for his head. The Treasury Secretary is not the real target of this outcry. This is being ginned up to hurt the President. Did we really think that the last 8 years would be undone without bumps along the road? Steady on folks.

[nod factor]

40. I think

Obama should have come out and defended the bonuses from a constitutional standpoint, and then say that's okay I will unleash the power of Eric and the DOJ on all these crooks so although they get their tasty bonus they will lose their freedom. That is how you go about regaining the confidence of the American people. Put these criminals behind bars I am tired of this dog and pony show.

[eridani]

41. Why not try logic and reason in support of that proposition? n/t

[woolldog]

50. b/c I'm not trying to support it.

I'm wondering how many other people have come to the same conclusion.

[Odin2005]

43. Geitner's problem is that he is understaffed.

Too much financial shit being dumped on him all at once and not enough people to help him clean it up and haul it out to the fields.

[vaberella]

54. That's what I'm thinking. n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

46. That all depends on who the replacement is.

If he ditches Geithner for another tool like Summers, Rubin, or Ghoulsbee, then it would be a pointless move.

But if he replaced him with Robert Reich, I believe he would have overwhelming public support, for taking a huge step in the proper direction (i.e. not hiring Wall Street Whores to fix a problem created by Wall Street Whores)

[Phx_Dem]

49. It also would give the Repukes the impression that they can call the shots

on Obama's cabinet.

I see nothing to suggest this was Geithner's fault. He's a patsy and I hope Obama continues to stand by him. In fact, I wish he would come out and say, "Sec. Geithner's not going anywhere, you fuckers." Or something close.

[leftofthedial]

51. if this is true, which I do not believe,

then Obama deserves to be crippled.

[vaberella]

52. What has Geitner done that deserves resignation? This is all on the Bush Admin and Libby.

Repubs are pushing the meme and a few on here are spouting trash. I'm not fond of Geitner but nothing he's done deserves resignation.

[Thrill]

53. Geithner shouldn't go anywhere

This is Bush's mess.

[zulchzulu]

56. It would just add more wood on the fire for the Repigs

I say we give the guy more than a month to fix an impossible problem...

[MoonRiver]

57. It won't hurt him! How could it?

What I'm more concerned about is what is hurting US. Geithner is a DISASTER! He's gaming the American taxpayers to help enrich fat cat corporations. GET IT?

[lynne]

58. It will cripple Obama politically if Geitner doesn't resign! Time to cut losses . . .

[Stinky The Clown]

61. I agree with you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5290480

[ddeclue]

62. NO Geitner REMAINING IS crippling him politically.

He needs to put Dennis Kucinich into this job. Somebody who cares about Main Street not Wall Street.

[gristy]

63. In two weeks, everyone will be saying "Geithner who?"

But your concern is noted.

[polichick]

64. imo the President is talented enough to pull it off either way...

If Geithner isn't serving him well (if he's protecting Wall Street), Pres. Obama should let him go ~ if what he's done was at the "pleasure of" the President for some reason (lawsuits, whatever), Obama will be able to keep him in the fold I think.