Someone needs to say it

[27inCali]

Obama doesn't really have the power to do a lot of the things we wish (and I'm sure he wishes) he could. He had to kiss a lot of rings to even get permission to run for President, let alone be ALLOWED to win. This may sound crazy, but humor me for a few paragraphs.............

The President doesn't run this country, international banks and a handful of super-rich families do.
If you aren't ready to deal with this dark reality, drink it to the dregs and begin to realize how much of a powerless figure head every president since 1913 has been, then you just aren't ready to start having the conversations that need to be had if we are going to start turning things around for our Democracy.

I expect a few of you to mock me, call me a Alex Jones or Ron Paul type and dismiss me, but man, you need to fucking wake up for the sake of future generations. If an idea is powerful enough that people from opposite political spectrums can look at it and reach a consensus, well pardon me if I happen to find it rather persuasive.

Let me just say I really like Obama as a personality (I supported him in the primaries for a number of different reasons none of which had to do with any perceived defects in Hillary), he's already taken action on some issues that I care deeply about and I'm so fucking glad we got the Repugs the hell out of the White House, but we have to realize that our Democracy is fucked up to the point that the President really can't change to big injustices inherent in the system. The last one that tried got his head blown off in front of his wife in Texas (The banks have murdered I think about 4-5 American Presidents in the last century or so, mostly around the time they were putting the Federal Reserve into place -JFK they killed because he was trying to get rid of the Federal Reserve).

I see a lot of people here are trying to get across their worry and anger over the very troubling signs we are seeing right now that all is not better just because Bush is gone, but I think they are using the wrong kind of language and not being as persuasive as they could be(my opinion, I admit that I'm human I can be wrong)and just coming off like people with an axe to grind because Obama isn't Lefty enough for them or because they wanted Hillary or nothing, but we got to get around that folks and get real, you can like Obama as a person and still realize that he doesn't have the POWER, even if he'd like to -THE BANKS HAVE THE POWER.

Go grab a one dollar bill and look at the creepy pyramid with the eye, underneath is a banner that says "Novus Ordo Seclorum" which is Latin for New World Order. What the fuck does that mean? It means starting with the formation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 the Fat Cats have taken over, they run the show now, they let the peasants have their little political kabuki theatre and vote for their favorite figure head (which color do you like? red or blue?) but which ever figure head wins, the agenda is being set by a shadowy ruling class that have misunderstood Nietzsche in much the way that the Nazis did and think that they have some sort of God-given right to subjugate the rest of the human race like cattle.

I understand that after 8 long years of Bush-style tyrrany, we all just want so bad to exhale and believe that thing are going to get better now, that we have this great President who cares and who will do the heavy lifting and get us back on our feet, I'm sure Obama wants to be that guy, but they wont let him be, they'll let him throw a few bones to the Left while quitely going about their business of turning the entire world into a bank-run fascist state. If we aren't courageous enough to put down the corporate fairy tale and look past the figure head to the real levers of power, we'll never come close the justice we seek.

Do I sound hopeless and cynical? I don't mean to be, to be honest with yourself about the depth of the challenge before you is not defeatism, but pragmatism. Do I sound like a conspiracy theorist who needs to believe there is a secret meaning in every little fucking thing that goes on? No, it's not that simple, those kind of theories smack of psychological need, but just realize that if YOU were the uber-rich asshole who wanted to the rule the world, would you go to everyone and say, "hey! I want to rule the world, kneel before me!"? No, because it sure as hell didn't work for Hitler, -no, we are ruled by secret kings who keep very quiet and call the shots when no one is looking, letting the elected officials take the heat while avoiding any scrutiny of themselves.

If you throw a frog in a pot of boiling water, it'll jump out, but put it in a luke-warm pot and slowly heat it and you'll boil that frog.

or

If you violently strip people of their liberty, they will fight back, but if you quietly undermine every institution intended to protect that liberty, they'll never notice until it's too late.

As much as you may love Obama, just realize that he is mostly a figure head, he can only do so much, the rest is up to us. We do neither him nor us any favors by turning him into such a sacred cow that we can't recognize and call out the slow erroding of our freedom behind the scenes. We also aren't doing anyone any favors if we channel our anger and distrust at him as opposed to the assholes who are really in charge.

I just think it's time to start having some very sobering, scary conversations about what's REALLY going on and people need to put down the hyperbole and knee-jerk reactions for a minute and listen to what's being said with an open mind.

[Arctic Dave]

1. Are you serious? If this is your real feelings then why bother

posting or trying at all? After all it useless to go against the (fill in the blank) who really rule the world.

Greed is not a conspiracy and that is what we are up against. If there is money and power to be gained people will lie, steal, cheat and murder for it. No conspiracy there.

[27inCali]

2. I think it can be changed

in many ways simply by informing people and stripping the elite class of their anonymity which is as much a source of their power as their money.

I'm not hopeless at all, the human race is slowly getting smarter, more able to deal with reality and change the things that need to be changed.

you're right it all boils down to greed, it always has.

the whole history of the human race is the story of the brave little self against the big machine -and many times, much to everyone's suprise, the brave little self has scored a few victories.

[The Doctor.]

35. Unless through cooperation they can make far more.

That cooperation is basically a form of conspiracy. It's how the world turns these days.

[masuki bance]

3. :yawn:

[27inCali]

8. if you find this subject matter boring

I really don't know what else to say.

apathy is a killer.

[girl gone mad]

9. Apathy is what you are promoting in your OP.

[27inCali]

11. If I gave you that impression

it's not what I meant at all. \\ I apologize.

I know those people, they're always looking for an excuse to give up to find a way to recast their apathy as some sort of amazing insight.

that's not me. I know I describe the big scary monster to be fought in terms that seem like it must be hopeless, but I don't see it that way, precisely because more and more people are talking about it. Some of us need big scary monsters, we need a big challenge (my manner of writing reveals a bit of my own psychological needs.

I just think we need to be real that a lot of the things that need to happen for this country to get better wont happen if one half us sit back and expect Obama to be fucking Superman, and the other half do nothing but tear him down for every little thing. Neither choice seems useful but both seem to dominate thought here. (my impression, could be wrong)

I think Obama wants to be the good guy, I think a lot of things are being forced on him. I think millions of us working together, armed with the forbidden knowledge would be way more powerful than him by himself and the rest of us either adulating or armchairing him to death.

[tavalon]

39. You kind of answered my earlier question here

Let's shine the light on who really runs this country and frankly, the world and see what slithers out from under those rocks.

[tbyg52]

69. I didn't see it as a call to apathy - just a call to reality.

Our elected officials are far from the top of the food chain.

[patrice]

71. Truly said!

:applause:

[Vanje]

88. You can tell 27inCali's theory is true......

....because theres a creepy eye-pyramid on the dollar bill.

Proof! Right there!

[wroberts189]

20. I saw it more as a call to action...

and an appeal to recognize that we do not or may not really know who the power brokers truly are.

[The Doctor.]

36. No, it's promoting a more realistic understanding of the forces we're up against.

n/t.

[salguine]

52. Oh, yes, "yawn". Except for some minor errors in regard to the number of

Presidents killed and when, very word of this is correct.

[BlooInBloo]

4. Game over man! GAME OVER!!!!

Have seen a whiny ass titty baby post like this for a little while.

[27inCali]

6. what do you mean game over?

not my intention at all. I have hope for change, I just don't think it comes from politicians, it comes from people, large numbers of people with some knowledge and some common sense of purpose.

nothing is written in stone, and anyone has the ability to push back -in varying degrees of effectiveness that can change drastically given the right moment.

but I think to dismiss my OP outright without any thoughtful rebuttal is a wee bit azy.

and the "whiny ass titty baby" part is a little thoughtless and lame

I think the whiny ones are the ones who cover their eyes and are scared to look at what is frightening and hard to deal with.

It's hard to deal with the idea that our democracy has been erroding for the last hundred or so years, and maybe it's easier to just say whatever and walk away, because it's not a "fun" idea to play with. I could be wrong, I'll admit that. We could be wrong about global warming, but what if we are not wrong about global warming? and what if I'm not wrong about the threat that international banks pose to our freedom?

[LooseWilly]

117. Aliens

You know... Bill Paxton's character, when the aliens have eaten the way out, Paxton's character (Hudson, as I recall) cracks up, loses his shit, and says... "Game over man! GAME OVER!!"

It was an allusion.
And it was also a judgement upon your judgement of the alien menace (bankers, with acid for blood, and horrible sharp fangs...).

In other words, some of us don't think you sound sane when you try to suggest a sound organizational cabal of banking plutocrats who decide all matters of world governance before tapping the keg in their underground lair which is accessed via the underground tunnels of Paris, Constantinople, and... let's say Boston. There may be collusion, there's obviously insider deals, there's privilege for the connected, and there's probably an "old boys network"... and the cash inside the banks makes the world go round... but that doesn't mean the bankers run the world.

I mean, what would be more embarrassing for the rulers of the world than having to grovel in front of Barney Frank... and ask for money.
Were the world plutocrat cabal members from Lehman Brothers late with their membership dues, and that's why that bank-like-entity was allowed to fail?

Or, and bear with me here for a paragraph, maybe the whole financial system is so contorted that... when looking at the confusion, you're mind thinks it sees the outlines of a form (I know my mind loves to do that with the underside of overpasses when I'm on LSD...), and you've lost perspective and made the mistake of believing in the verity of a shape you haven't so much seen as interpolated...

[wroberts189]

22. I loved Aliens 2 as well but please ..if thats what you think explain why. nt

[LooseWilly]

121. Try 117 for a possible answer....

Then, if you don't like it... dismiss it...

[tavalon]

40. Game is only over if you look the wrong direction

As good hearted as President Obama clearly is, he is not where we should focus our hopes or our anger.

[MrMickeysMom]

108. Okay, here's a good example-

... you demean the OP.


Now, even if I toned down a response like yours over on the 911 thread, I'd have it ...DELETED.

Maybe Lithos should moderate this thread?

[patrice]

5. We MUST figure out how to do our OWN thing. It has to be NEW. Stop giving them what money we have.

Form co-operative living and working agreements. Invest in ourselves.

[27inCali]

7. thanks

for posting something meaningful in return.

you're totally right -we need to invest in ourselves, believe in ourselves and the ones who will make the needed changes, stop expecting the politicians to bite the hand that feeds them.

[patrice]

70. I've been saying this for years. I know I'm not the only one who is ready to go.

Sometimes people laugh and ridicule the idea of what they think is a commune, but that's wrong, because, though new economic structures will be based upon specific SHARED group values, there will/MUST be individual equity. I hope to see that equity defined fundamentally as Function and "money" would be the collective by-product of functions and functionality.

[earth mom]

10. I don't buy it for a minute that Obama's hands are tied. Look at the damage * wrought

and now you're saying that Obama can't reverse it or do right by the people of this country?

No, the fact of the matter is that Obama doesn't want to "change" anything-even though that is the motto he ran his campaign on.

He lied to the public through his teeth letting them believe that things would be different and it's the same old shit, different day.

I've posted plenty of times here on DU that we need to be like the French and stand up to these bastards in DC & on Wall Street, but few people reply.

Hell, I've even suggested we all stop paying taxes en masse. It's OUR money they are spending on bullshit and corruption after all.

But do you think there is a groundswell of support for that idea?

Hell no.

People want someone else to solve this problem for them.

They all thought Obama was going to come in with a magic wand and make it all better and when he didn't they look for every ridiculous excuse possible as to why.

How much more are people going to take before they say enough?

Does this country have to completely crash and burn before people get a clue that politicians only want their vote?!

How long before people realize that as far as elected officials are concerned, we can all fuck off!

It's not a knee jerk reaction to be furious at the denial that is rampant around DU and elsewhere.

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is not angry as hell, is NOT paying attention.

There will be NO change unless people wake up and BE the change they want to see.

[27inCali]

13. you're right about the denial

I don't suppose to know everything. I just know the system is gamed to the point that it doesn't matter if we have a good human being or a total asshole as president, we are still getting screwed by the quiet powers behind the scenes.

I just don't think the real power is in the presidency.

I share your anger, I'm focusing it in a slightly different place.

I don't want to seem like an apologist for Obama. I'm not. I think there is a bigger picture here that we need to see.

Don't let go of your anger, don't read me as telling you to let it go, I'm not.

We need more anger from every quarter, right now it's all we got. Anger can be so powerful when it is tempered with some knowledge and some hope (not hope vested in a politician -but in ourselves).

I think we ALL should be reading up right now on what we're NOT supposed to know.

[earth mom]

67. Over the years, there's been a lot of info posted here on DU on what we're not supposed to know.

Stuff about the BFEE, the North American Union, the Bilderbergs, 9/11 MIHOP/LIHOP, etc.

Some people around here are paying attention to it, and some who think Obama's a rock star are not.

You would think that ever since Nixon and Vietnam, people would be highly suspicious and cynical about politicians, government and the corporations that control them.

Instead people still buy into the smarmy, smooth talking, snake oil salesman lies being fed them 24/7 by politicians and the corporate media. :crazy:

[patrice]

75. There ARE a bunch of newbies around.

Politics has become more "in" lately amongst previously un-interested groups, like being able to say anything about ECW or Monster Trucks, but with WAAAAAAY less info, so you have people who have maybe just been kind-of-sort-of paying "attention" for maybe a couple of years, all just bouncing shit off of one another, which gets picked up by a megaphone such as rl or ac or bo and then Obama came along and attracted a bunch of other newbies from the opposite quarter . . . echoes, echoes, echoes . . . . PLUS numerous 2nd tier shit-stirrers in various media, especially on the internet.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tavalon]

41. That's the thing,

as lame ass and just plain mean as Bush was, he was just implementing what he was told to. Obama may resist a bit more, not being a sociopath, but he will still only be able to do what he's told. We need to figure out who really runs this country and expose their asses. I think we've exposed a few of them with the AIG/Wall street debacle but I'm unsure that the really big players have even been touched.

[babylonsister]

48. He's only able to do what he's told? What planet are you living on?

Seriously, where have you been? What don't you get? What do you read? Where is your mind?

[tavalon]

53. I'm quite sure he is working within parameters

Do you really think he isn't beholden to the same kingmakers that every President in the last 100 years has been?

[27inCali]

59. Rockefellers

remember when in the 40s and 50s and even 60s the Rockefellers were in the news all the time. People talked about them -not so much any more. After all, they are the richest family in the world worth (by some estimates) 110 Billion. They were a big part of putting the Federal Reserve in place. So why are they never in the news? funny, huh.,

there are more. There's a lot of good stuff on YOUTUBE about this (a lot of goofy shit to, but we are adults and can make distinctions between serious discussions and just wacky stuff).

[earth mom]

64. The question is-is Obama ready for the day his supporters turn on him and he has a 20%

approval rating like *?

Does Obama not care the legacy that he, the first black president, leaves?

Does Obama even want to get re-elected?

Sure, Obama may be controlled by the powers that be, but he can also tell them to fuck off anytime he likes too.

Instead, Obama dares not risk their wrath and instead risks the wrath of the people.

As for exposing who the powers that be are look no further than Wall St, Banks, Oil Companies, Big Pharma, Insurance Companies and the Corporate Media.

There's a helluva lot of them, but even more of us :grr:

[patrice]

76. He's only able to do what he is allowed to do.This country is being held hostage by One World Order.

[freemarketer6]

115. Great and honest post. Although I have my doubts that without

complete devastation anything can be changed. The power brokers have a thousand pound test on those lines.

[BigBearJohn]

12. It is so hard for people to handle the truth. Give them a pacifyer instead.

Thanks for your post. I have felt the exact same way for years now.
Kennedy was indeed killed because he started printing "United States Notes"
instead of "Federal Reserve Notes" (I used to have one). Johnson's first
act of office was to recall all those printed US Notes.

It seems as though those with all the money rule the world.
Sure, they will throw us a few bones.
Unfortunately, the bottom line IS the bottom line.

[27inCali]

15. Jim Morrison said

"they got the guns, but we got the numbers."

it's still true today. The main source of their power is that they are invisible -you take that invisibility away and suddenly the power of their money is dwarfed by 300 million muthafuckin' angry Americans.

[tavalon]

42. How do we take their invisibility away?

[27inCali]

60. get out there and tell people about it

research it a bit. Start looking up info on the net about the Federal Reserve, the history of banking and limited liability corporations. There area lot of good movies that cover stuff like this, some of it, I'm not so sure about because it starts to get a little too wacky with some of the theories but there is a lot of substantiated info too, but go back and start reading about all the Presidents like Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Wilson, Kennedy that tried to warn the people about the power of the banks and corporations and their secret societies....

[tavalon]

62. See that's the thing these days

There's no need for assassination when there is character assassination. Ask any character who dares to say what went down on Sept 11th of 2001 might not be exactly like they told us. Bundle it all up and call us conspiracy nuts and no problem.

[emilyg]

14. Kick

[babylonsister]

16. Where are my waders?

"If you violently strip people of their liberty, they will fight back, but if you quietly undermine every institution intended to protect that liberty, they'll never notice until it's too late."

Attribute the above to Bush. Why didn't you think it was time to address this for the past 8 years?

And I don't think our current president is a figurehead. He has said what he means and means what he says, pretty much. So, flawed reasoning imo.

[27inCali]

18. it's been time to address this issue for the last hundred years

and all those greedy corporate assholes who ran rampant in the Bush years, do you think they suddenly left town now that Obama has come into office, or are they still there, doing their damndest to keep the average American down?

what I am trying to say is that Frankenstein has got so fucking powerful that even the President of the United States does not have the POWER to reign him in.

I don't want to sound like I am trying to undermine Obama, because I really like him and I want to believe in him more than any other politician in my lifetime. I'm just saying it will take more than just him, he can't do it on his own.

I think part of the answer is to start talking about this idea: how corporate and banking interests undermine our democracy to the point that we can put the best and most noble of men and women into office and still the major injustices of our time stay in place.

[tavalon]

44. You're doing a good job explaining your position

to those who can stand to hear it.

I adore President Obama but I do think it is a grave mistake to believe he holds all of or even many of the cards.

[babylonsister]

45. I think those injustices are 'trying' to be addressed. Imagine the

different forces hitting him and his bare econ team all at once. I know more people have been hired. I think this admin might have a clue, but they are working against unimaginable forces. Then again, the rethug's budget plan was so compelling. :sarcasm: I kid!

Baby steps are needed. Not everything can or will be solved immediately, but we can hope for some rational thought. That doesn't mean the world is going to hell in a hand basket either.

[tavalon]

43. What the OP is saying and I think there is some validity to that,

is that no President since the Fed gained power has really had any power at all. Be that Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Bush 1, Reagan, Clinton, Bush 2, Obama, ?????

No special focus on the current one. Hell, he's the best, kindest, most truly loving one we've had in a hell of a long time, but he is not where the seat of power lies anymore.

[Fire1]

99. I absolutely agree.

[wroberts189]

17. Right or wrong..I know not, but that was some excellent writing.

And certainly a perspective worth hearing.


knr

[27inCali]

19. I think this issue is a lot like global warming

as I wrote in another response.

It's really easy for people to just sort of walk away and ignore itbecause it's so subtle, it's not in their face ..... but if it is real, and we don't do anything about it, man are we royally fucked.

thank you so much for the compliments....

[wroberts189]

31. Someone did need to say it .. and you said it well.

I am secretly hoping that Obama will start to slowly undermine them in the same way they have undermined the rule of law, the Constitution, and destroyed a lot of the American peoples faith in our own institutions. Including my own.

In order to do it he will have to be tricky and sneaky..and the people cooking the frogs must not know that they are the ones on the menu.

I see signs of this ..some of the words he uses like "change" and "hope"... and I trust the guy ... even though I do get a bit disappointed at times like others here do.

And perhaps he is waiting to get everything and everyone in place before he acts more boldly. One can hope ..I do.

[patrice]

78. I believe he is smart enough to tweak fundamental characteristics of the system.

The problem is to be committed enough to create genuine political pressure, resistance to the same-old-shit in new clothes, and at the same time KNOW enough to recognize the groundwork for the tweaks that, if supported, could result in roots from a cutting off of the old dying tree.

Obama comes out of a Liberation Theologist tradition; I am certain he KNOWS what the fundamental problematic issues are. The questions are about what, EXACTLY, can he do. I don't believe that is nothing; nor do I assume it is something. I think he's in the "let's see their cards" phase right now. What's more important is what, EXACTLY, can WE do. We NEED to identify and COMMIT to everything we can do and then we shall see what we shall see about Obama.

[NYC_SKP]

23. I'm in your camp on this one.

Recommended.

[Life Long Dem]

24. President Obama won.

:hurts:

[27inCali]

25. can you elaborate?

[Life Long Dem]

27. I thought the people elaborated very well

And not the other way around. Try opening your mind to this and realize the other way around was not an option.

[27inCali]

28. ok, but stick with me here for a second

there are a lot of wealthy and powerful people who have the influence to sidetrack or flat out stop anything Obama tries to do.

In other words, they have the power and not him, not because he's done anything wrong, but because the whole system is fucked from top to bottom to the point that whoever is President is severely limited in anything they can accomplish for the people.

Much of the power these people have comes from the fact that most average folks have no clue what is going on behinds the scenes - the more people who know, the more the President is freed up to fight back.

[dionysus]

30. i didn't take it as he was saying it was.

a well written piece and i am a huge Obama fan...
:shrug:

[tavalon]

47. Reading comprehension isn't your strong point is it?

Or are you saying that because Obama was allowed to take the office, that nullifies what the author is positing?

[dionysus]

33. i don't see this as an anti-Obama post at all...

:shrug:

[27inCali]

34. I thought I made it pretty clear

that I like Obama and supported him almost from gitgo (I liked Joe a lot).

this isn't so much about Obama, but more about how a lot of both the criticism and defense of Obama on this board has really missed the point all together.

[patrice]

80. A Significant sector of his support early on, in the crucial weeks, was from the FINANCIAL sector.

[pecwae]

94. I didn't read where the OP said he didn't.

Sounds like "Bush won!" - so thoughtful.

[latebloomer]

26. K&R

I agree that the power of the President is greatly overrated, and that he must sell off a good part of his soul in order to comply with the wishes of the corrupt forces who really run things. And that, as Obama has suggested, we must claim our own power and not look at him as the Messiah.

Great post, thanks!

[dionysus]

29. nicely written.

:thumbsup:

[wroberts189]

37. The rest of the world seems to get it...

G20 Protests Building in London -Bankers Blamed for Global Recession

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5349744


Around 35,000 protesters gathered in the rain in London today for a huge march for “jobs, justice and climate” in the first of a week of demonstrations ahead of the G20 summit.

The Put People First march involved an alliance of 150 groups, including unions, charities, environmental campaigners and faith organisations. Campaigners are expected to target bankers and city financiers who they blame for the global recession.

------------------------
And why on earth is the Federal reserve in mostly private hands and control?
--------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve

The Federal Reserve System (also the Federal Reserve; informally The Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. Created in 1913 by the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, it is a quasi-public (government entity with private components) banking system<1> that comprises (1) the presidentially appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.; (2) the Federal Open Market Committee; (3) twelve regional privately-owned Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation acting as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury, each with its own nine-member board of directors; (4) numerous other private U.S. member banks, which subscribe to required amounts of non-transferable stock in their regional Federal Reserve Banks; and (5) various advisory councils

[tavalon]

38. I try not to dwell on this much because I don't know what to do about it

but you are correct, Obama will only get to do what he is allowed to do. He will do it with more style and substance and genuine caring than the silverspoon sociopath but even prettied up, it's still a dog and pony show.

So, if it is as you say it is, and I know you're right, what kind of things need to happen? All out bloody revolution can have unintended consequences and usually does.

[wroberts189]

46. We have to pull the curtains back ..like in the "Wizard of Oz"

They (the hidden super rich puppet masters) are pulling a Naomi Klein "shock doctrine" on us ... holding us and Obama hostage as they control the means of trade (or money).

Remember when this whole bailout thing happened.... these big banks came in and said give us the loot or else. Too big too fail ..martial law ..economic collapse ..these words were echoed throughout congress ..this was before Obama.

Then they refused to tell us what they did with the money we gave them.

Then they said they needed more.. we gave them more. They said (AIG) it still was not enough.. we need more. Again we gave them more. And we will give them more again.

So who is in control?

Some people ..like Paul Krugman are very well correct in calling attention to this.

But I believe Obama's hands are tied at the moment ...but while they loot the treasury I suspect he is carefully cutting the ropes off with a hidden Swiss army knife.

[HughBeaumont]

49. I don't know.

Do a handful of us just get to the point of no return and "settle all business with the five families" to the said shadow wealth?

Wouldn't that make us as bad as the corporofascist cabal that wiped out the Kennedys?

What would happen then?

Of course, if we really want to talk extremes, let's go with a massive and miraculous uprising of about a few hundred million people, which would in all likelihood result in bloodshed thanks to police and the military (who, make no mistake, WOULD fire upon and bomb the citizenry if their owners told them to), world market collapse, a brief stop to commerce, panic and a restart of everything, which would take about 20-30 years.

Also, there'd have to be hope that whoever comes out of the pile to lead the new economic charge doesn't become as astonishingly greedy and uncaring as this well-aided bunch callously has.

The wealthy screwed us. BIG time. Years of electing economic moderates and mostly right wing zealot-fascists who mollycoddled the ruling class and believing the bullshit they spewed led to the mess we have today. And since they're so instilled in every facet of our lives, it would literally take armed revolution to remove them.

Maybe in time, this will make a majority of the people take elections more seriously. Maybe we'll be a little bit WISER for the ware.

I'm afraid we'll never see universal health care in my lifetime, simply because there is no money for it. The smoke-hole the Bewshes and Reagan created seems to be insurmountable, even if we limited or flat out closed down all things militarily related.

Voting does nothing. Protesting does nothing. They don't listen. They don't care. It's all a big damned dog and pony show, isn't it? We cannot deny that extremes have to be taken since massive debt rung up by three Republican presidents at the behest of their handlers have crippled any serious and legal avenue for real reversal.

I refuse to believe this shadow handful will rule forever. Whether through a die-off, a limited group of special forces or a massive uprising, will it happen? Will the people believe in themselves again?

Somewhere, our more courageous ancestors who went into their lives with nothing to lose and sacrificed themselves to change what was wrong are watching us and waiting.

[grasswire]

51. the people still hold the power

....but they seem to lack recognition of that fact.

[The Bakery Wagon]

57. ...but they seem to lack recognition of that fact...

Orwell said (regarding proles)...

Until they become conscious they will never rebel,
and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.

A true prophet, Orwell

The answer to 1984 (and 2009) is 1776

Just look at the way he has nailed the present back in 1948

http://www.orwelltoday.com/proles.shtml

[27inCali]

58. People just need to know

it needs to be more common place for people to actually take the time to learn about what the super elite classes are up to. What are the things they don't want you to know. It needs to be a cultural phenomenon where it actually becomes cool, something to be proud of, something people are willing to take some time out of their day to do. I know a lot of people are lazy, whatever, but more people need to talk about it openly with their friends and family and not feel weird like they are goofy conspiracy theorists.

we don't need to be violent. Violence would only undermine the ideals we would be supposedly fighting for, no. It's about letting people know.

Take the anonymity of the ruling class away from them. make them visible. make them reported on. If the corporate media wont do it, then regular people have to go out of their way to find out and share it with as many people as we can using the internet and whatever else technology we can get a hold of. The main source of their power is not so much their wealth, but their secrecy.

go to YOUTUBE and look up Kennedy's speech about secret societies and tell me it doesn't give you chills when thinking about these things.

[patrice]

81. This is the discussion some of the older ones in My Family have been having with

some of the truly brilliant, more brash, younger ones.

The calculus has to do with timing, biological, economic, social, and environmental, and the sizes of various factions, regressivist, progressivist, confusionist, lost, and others. And, as you say, one of the BIG questions is "...whoever comes out of the pile to lead the new economic charge ..." could be "same as the old boss." It IS VERY possible that though everyone is saying the emperor really does have new populist clothes, he's still naked, meanwhile Earth's clock is still ticking.

[Vanje]

91. If you want to prove the theory beyond a doubt

just show em the eye-pyramid on the dollar bill.

[flying rabbit]

50. You are correct sir! Ha!

Bonus: Nice replies to those that didn't actually comprehend what you wrote (or bothered to read in the first place).

Rabbit reporting from kneejerk central.

[patrice]

82. Much of the necessary NEW changes could come out of the Unions and the Employee Free Choice Act and

THAT'S why

the EFCA will be fought tooth and nail by the REAL powers that be.

[patrice]

86. P.S. THIS WILL BE ONE OF THE WAYS YOU WILL BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE WHO REALLY OWNS THE PRESIDENT

[Hellataz]

54. I don't know if i can be this cynical, but i do agree that Obama doesn't have as much power as we

wish or think he has. But not necessarily because of the rich, I think Obama has the strength to take on the rich and i think he will fight to help the middle and poor classes. But I think the problems lies with Obama having to get through congress and the senate to get his promises done and it's proving difficult even with a majority of dems in both houses. So he tries to be bi-partisans, because he knows going in the the GOp had already planned to block his every over, but maybe if he could appeal to them one on one, maybe he could change some minds and change things for the inside and then be able to keep his campaign promises. It's going to be along haul and i think it's premature to judge how much power he has or will yield until much later down the line.

[Ken Burch]

55. You are right, there are limits to President Obama's powers, in and of themselves

It's up to us to REMOVE those limits, from below, through constant struggle.

Which is why ALL of us need to be building a strong, grassroots movement for economic democracy and social justice to push him in the direction he needs to go and the one that(I think we all suspect)he WOULD take if he had fewer constraints.

It's like the early 60's.

Neither JFK nor LBJ would have been able to move very far on Civil Rights(and may not ever even become interested in moving very far) if there was no movement from below to create the political climate for changes beyond the comfort zone of our rulers.

We need something like a JOBS SUMMER, a FINANCE FOR THE PEOPLE SUMMER, or a much larger U.S. Social Forum to lead our leaders in the right direction.

The time is now for that. Let's get rolling.

[Karenina]

63. How about A NEW WAY FORWARD?

A New Way Forward

Big bankers ruined our economy and now they are gaming the political system so they can profit even more off the crisis they caused. They must be stopped.

On April 11th, 2009, the public will come out in cities across the country to express their frustration and disapproval with how our elected officials have handled the economic crisis. No one has been left unscathed; this protest is yours.

http://www.anewwayforward.org/demonstrations/

Props to Doremus.

[laugle]

56. I bet you listen to the George Noory radio show!

I'll admit it. I even got Alex Jones video of the Bohemian Grove, and the worshiping of the Owl. Boy, was that creepy...........

I do hope that Obama will be more than a figurehead president, he certainly has a lot more brains the that creature before him.

[indimuse]

61. hmm...

Do the Rothschild's ooor J.P.Morgan come to mind??

knr!

[patrice]

85. Wonderful! wonderful! sig-pic! Is it copyright protected? My son the musician will love it.

Also, is that the Holy Spirit, a.k.a. Chi, above the Tree?

[rucky]

65. I don't know if you're right or wrong about this.

But we need to address the possibility, instead of dismissing these types of warnings as fringe.

My gut tells me that the solution lies in us creating our own community based systems: employee-owned businesses, barter and alternate currency, community gardens and co-ops. The less dependence on the banks and multinationals, the better off we'll be. And we don't need the support of anyone to start that up - just all involved agree that this is a better way. We can work outside the system side-by-side with the system. We don't have to tear it down first. This would be the best use of our time and energy, IMHO.

[Fire1]

100. These possibilities have never been dismissed by those

of us paying attention over the years. This is not 'new.'

[Honeycombe8]

66. I disagree. Banks don't run the country, altho it's in fashion to say so right now. It's...

It's large corporations (not just financial ones) that run the country. Exxon, Chevron, BP, DuPont, General Dynamics, Halliburton, AND the large financial corporations, like BOA, Citibank.

[patrice]

83. Did you see where the Carlyle Group purchased a large private Elder Care corporation in

Minnesota, I think it was, if someone thinks that's not "running the country" I sure as hell don't know what the power of life and death over millions might be.

[Honeycombe8]

124. Whoa. That IS scary. nt

[Jennicut]

68. I don not like Ron Paul or Alex Jones at all but agree on some points that Obama's power is limited

Bush went along with what the bankers and corps wanted, hell they owned his Presidency. However, he also power grabbed as did Cheney to get unlimited unquestionable power to do what he wanted in domestic and foreign policy for the interests that had claimed them. Obama and Biden are trying to give some of that power back while at the same time having still limited powers themselves while the big corps and banks own the United States. What is needed is a focus more on small business and entrepreneurship as big corps do not trickle money down to us at all anymore, if they ever did to begin with. That is the real revolution.
I too am a bit of a conspiracy theorist in that I am afraid if Obama really starts to push anything too far there would be attempts on his life. Call me crazy but what really happened to Kennedy? I agree that we cannot not criticize him while at the same time we cannot blame him for it all. Its kind of sad what happened to the United States. Obama knows this deep down, that Wall St. and big corp America is trying to hold him hostage by not lending to people anymore and allowing the economy to get back on its feet. This whole economic collapse has made me question capitalism and made me wonder if we need to completely start over as a country.

[Political Heretic]

72. Am I just supposed to take your word on all this?

[Vanje]

92. The eye-pyramid on the dollar bill....

furnishes indisputable proof.

[Fire1]

103. No. PICK UP A BOOK!!!

[Political Heretic]

104. And take the authors word, instead?

:shrug:

[Fire1]

111. It's more credible than CONJECTURE!!!!

[Political Heretic]

118. Unless Is *IS* CONJECTURE!!!!

In printed form.

[Fire1]

122. How would you know the difference if you've never read

anything outside of a news headline or article?

[cleveramerican]

73. YOU ARE WISE

Thank you for saying it.

[jschurchin]

74. Excellent Post

Thank You.

[geiger]

77. "...the rest is up to us."

That is true, and there is a lot of denial about that fact, and I don't know how you get people to face up to their responsibilities in all of this.

People are running around in faux "outrage" and looking for their piece of the stimulus bill and not even acknowledging the fact that they may have to get off their duff and do something this time. We can't just elect one guy and expect him to solve all our problems. It sets him up for failure and continues the smug, self-important, self-perpetuating prophecy of "things will never change."

[stillcool]

79. It seems there are many people..

who are unaware of the government we have, and the country we are. History is obviously not a popular subject..nor is reality. Thank you for your reasoned post. Sorry to see that many don't get it.

[SlowDownFast]

84. Rec'd.

A lot of naive and brainwashed people in this country. Lots of TV can do that.

It's going to have to get a lot worse for people to wake up.

Looks like somebody or something is arranging that right now.

[Vanje]

87. My neighbor says the same thing

Only he blames "the jews" and rants on about some protocols of the elders .
.....And the catholic church....which according to my neighbor, is run by jewish bankers.

....And witchcraft. Apparently Jewish Catholic Bankers are skilled practitioners of sorcery.

My foam-spewing neighbor also cites the pyramid on the dollar bill as absolute proof.

My neighbor is a raving idiot.
He believes in both creation AND evolution.
He believes God created white people in the garden of Eden, but non-white peoples and "the jews" evolved from monkeys.

[patrice]

89. therefore . . . . ?

[jhrobbins]

119. You need to move - ASAP! Cuz next thing is he'll find something wrong with you.

[Vanje]

90. Lyndon! Lyndon LaRoush! Is that YOU? nt

[Starry Messenger]

93. Does the "Skull and Bones" come up in the theory, too?

Perhaps the Illuminati? Why not name names?

[undergroundpanther]

95. Wonderful post

[varelse]

96. International banks and a handful of super-rich families run the world

and if we permit it, they'll run out the clock for all of us.

:kick:

[saltpoint]

97. D-minus.

[Fire1]

102. By whose fuckin standards? YOURS???? LOL!!

[saltpoint]

107. My fucking standards are even stricter.

[Fire1]

109. Bullshit!

[saltpoint]

110. two-syllable slang noun.

[rtassi]

98. Sorry you have to take an ass kicking for it ...

but it was brave of you to write ... Frogs in slowly heating water just about sums us up! Three years ago, a former Senator from California, sailed aboard my vessel with his family. He was very bright ... He tolerated our political discussions on the quarter deck, because we had a least a loose grip on the realities on how the world worked, and as a gentleman, he showed respect for the fact that I was Captain, and he didn't want to embarrass me for being ignorant. When the discussion broke up, he came over to me and said "though you seem to have a better then average grasp of how our system works, and your insights on JFK were impressive for a layman; you are neglecting 2 important facts ... and they are; nothing happens on this planet that we either did not know about in advance, or we didn't plan" (we buy the way meaning collective world wide governance)

Accepting the fact that we are not in control, is the first step in being part of a movement of awakened consciousness, which is truly the only weapon we have to advance a humanitarian agenda world wide. I mean, if your going to spend your life being outraged, and angry, you might as well put those emotions to better use by directing them at the real culprits, and stop focusing on this political side show, or expecting some guy in an oval room to fix it all for ya ... just my two cents!

peace
rt

[Skip Intro]

101. poor frog. nt

[jhrobbins]

120. JUst an FYI - that frog anecdote is false-it doesn't/wouldn't happen like that

And that comes from a number of articles I read about it a long time ago refuting this. ANyway, we get what you mean though and it does make for an interesting (and gruesome) mental movie.

[Mrspeeker]

105. I've said it to!!!

"Give me control over a nation's currency and I care not who makes its laws." -- Baron M.A. Rothschild (1744 - 1812)

[Political Heretic]

106. THE ILLIMINATI ARE EVERYWHERE AND NOWHERE!!!!! 1!!1!!!!!!1111111 111111

[mistertrickster]

112. The logical problem with this analysis--then Bush wasn't very powerful either.

Iraq, imprisonment without trial, repudiation of gov'tal oversight etc. etc. has proved otherwise.

[Fire1]

113. Bush was a fuckin PUPPET and the

astute know this!

[freemarketer6]

114. Excellent post. I encourage those conversations here in this

place, which may be the last hope for mankind.

63inCali.

[bottomtheweaver]

116. Yes and no in this sense:

I agree with all your points, but I don't think Obama is powerless. In fact he's the most powerful person on earth: he controls the world's biggest army, biggest economy, etc.

Yes he has to fear assassination, but that just means he has to use his power shrewdly. At the moment, I don't see him doing that, but he's still getting used to the job.

A good example of how a politically elected leader can break out of the matrix without destroying the country would be Hugo Chavez, who was democratically elected and plays by the rules, despite the best efforts of the PTB, including the CIA, to stop him.

Another example is Fidel Castro. That's a little extreme but I think Chavez is actually a good testament to the fact that the situation is not totally hopeless.

Anyway, K/R, we need to talk about it, absolutely!

[Kaleko]

123. Conspicuously absent from this thread

are many DUers who have exposed these powers behind the scenes for years.

I guess we're tired of repeating what is blatantly obvious if you just care to LOOK.

Thanks for a valiant stab at yet another exposé, my friend.

[jemma]

125. Someone needed to say it, true

And there are two kinds of people who won't like hearing it:
1-People who are too afraid to let the dark disturbing truth in because then they'll have to rethink everything they thought they knew, and
2-People who have benefited from the decades of lies.

Between those two categories that's a shit ton of people. I'd like to think that it's not the majority, but I dunno.

“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act”
--George Orwell

Until people acknowledge what's happened in the past they can't understand, let alone acknowledge, what is occurring now. While I disagree with you on the motive behind the 1963 coup, I agree that our last populist president was eliminated, with extreme prejudice, for daring to put the needs of the people before the desires of the wealthy.

Again, people will never like hearing this--thus the name of the best book on the subject:
"JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters" by James W. Douglass.

[Orsino]

126. The president gets much more blame than power...

...and that's as it should be. Obama's cool enough to weather all the criticism he'll face. He's not a spoiled man-child like his predecessor.

But we shouldn't want a Chief Executive with the power to fix all this. We need an intelligent, responsive leader who will help us fix it.

[redqueen]

128. I like this reponse. Especially this part:

"we shouldn't want a Chief Executive with the power to fix all this"

[Phx_Dem]

127. Whatever. Defensive much?

[hughee99]

129. The banks have killed 4-5 presidents in the past century?

There have been 8 presidents that died in office (W.H. Harrison, Taylor, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, Harding, FDR and JFK). 5 of them died at least a decade before the the Federal Reserve Act was passed in 1913 under Wilson and 4 of them died more than 120 years ago. 4 of them died reportedly of natural causes. Harding died of a heart attack (or stroke), and was certainly a friend of big business, so I don't know why he'd be a target.

At MOST, 2 presidents roughly fit the circumstances you gave (FDR and JFK) and that's if you think FDR was killed rather than died of the massive cerebral hemorrhage as reported.