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Obama "Indicted" by a "Grand Jury" (of Birthers)

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PatGund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:29 PM
Original message
Obama "Indicted" by a "Grand Jury" (of Birthers)
A while back, birther lawyer Stephen Pidgeon continued his descent into madness "National Grand Jury" to file a supposed indictment on President Obama.

http://decalogosintl.org/?p=304

Basically this was the birther's attempt to get some sort of "legal" action going since all their cases have gone nowhere. Rooted firmly in the Pseudolaw that the birthers and their teabagging tax cheat allies are so fond of, the belief was that a "citizens" court could force some sort of official reaction from the courts and law enforcement

http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Pseudolaw

Realistically speaking, it was more like getting the National Baseball Association to change their season based on the demands of a couple fantasy baseball leagues. Because the main problems with this entire idea is:

1) There is no legal validity to anything they do or say. In fact, it's a bit dangerous for exactly that reason. Say this fantasy grand jury meets, decides someone is guilty.

Then they realize they have NO authority. The courts don't recognize them. Law Enforcement doesn't recognize them. They have no legal authority or recourse at all. What happens then?

Historically speaking, this type of behaviour leads to Kangaroo Courts, Lynch Mobs, and other forms of vigilantism and extrajudicial punishment.

2) From their start, they had an inherent bias in favour of the birthers claims. Look at this example from Stephen Pidgeon's website: (Bold face mine)

Requirements to Become a Grand Juror

National Grand Juror candidates must meet all of the following qualifications:

*Be a natural born citizen of the United States (born in one of the fifty states of the United States to parents both of whom were U.S Citizens and resident in the United States at that time).


Compare this to this example from Napa County in California:

http://www.napa.courts.ca.gov/grandjury/gj_apply.htm

Grand jurors must meet the following legal qualifications:

*At least 18 years old
*Citizen of the United States


Already they've established a level of citizenship higher than what real Grand Juries call for. And what does the handbook for Federal Grand Juries say??

http://www.moed.uscourts.gov/jury/jury_handbookgrandjurors.pdf

"SELECTION OF GRAND JURORS

Federal law requires that a grand jury be selected at random from a fair cross section of the community in the district or division in which the federal grand jury convenes. Thus, all citizens have an equal opportunity and obligation to serve.


So the "jury pool" is limited to people who buy into the birther claims on "natural born citizenship". (It's interesting to note Dr. Orly herself couldn't serve on one of these due to her being a naturalized citizen)

And this leads to:

3) Bias. The "jury pool" is drawn from people who accept the birther claims on "natural born citizenship" and already believe the birthers claims and fables. It's certainly not drawn from the community, and the people going in already have a high degree of certainly in the supposed "guilt" of President Obama. Again, from the Federal Grand Jury handbook:

"The oath taken by the grand jurors binds them to inquire diligently and objectively into all federal crimes committed within the district of which they have or may obtain evidence and to conduct such inquiry without malice, fear, hatred, or other emotion."


Whereas it's pretty certain that the people going in for this "National Grand Jury" are doing it OUT of malice, fear, and hatred.

So why do I bring this up?? Because it seems the first of these fantasy "grand juries" met over the weekend in Georgia. And much to nobody's surprise, filed an "Indictment" against President Obama.

http://riseupforamerica.com/

"At approx. 4:15 p.m. March 28th in the city of Stockbridge Ga. the people of Georgia returned an Indictment against Barack Hussein Obama!!!!!! 25 Jurists, duly sworn in, heard tesitmony and in a unanimous vote, Indicted the usurper"


Of course, Dr. Orly is pimping this.

http://defendourfreedoms.us/2009/03/28/history-in-the-making.aspx

"The first Common Law, Citizens Grand Jury will convene today, March 28, 2009, at 1:00pm EST at 165 Burke St Stockbridge, Ga

Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq will be on phone conference for the trial.

We are attempting to hook this up on Skype Conference http://www.skype.com

If that doesn't work, we have some with camcorders and Patrick Gibson said he will get it produce for later viewing.


Notice the time. They met at 1pm. They decided at 4:15pm. I'll assume that part of that 3 hours and 15 minutes was troubleshooting Skype. Real Grand Juries can take days or weeks to render a decision.

Not hours. Right away this screams kangaroo court.

And Dr. Orly says there will be another one in Texas, and eventually every state.

So how does this fantasy grand jury, with no legal powers to speak of, get their "Indictment" enforced?

Answer - they can't. The whole thing is a great example of the "my mind is made up, hang him" mentality. They believe that this fantasy "Indictment" equals a legal ruling and conviction. When not even a real grand jury's decision would equal such. For all the legal validity this has, they could send it to Frosty the Snowman. It would mean just as much.

First off, most of the birthers wouldn't know the "rule of law" if it jumped up and bit their backside.

Second off, I suspect that neither President Obama or his supporters are doing anything more than rolling their eyes or laughing at the birthers.

This seems to be tied to the "common law grand jury" movement, which it is claimed get their power from Articles 52 and 61 of the Magna Carta</a> and article 1 of the "Confirmatio Cartarum"of 1297. Which sounds to me like these "patriots" are trying to do an end-run around US Law and the US Constitution in order to support their claims. (Pseudolaw again) Ultimately, this "National Grand Jury" thing is sound and fury, meaning nothing. The concern comes from the encouragement that these actions will give to someone inclined towards violence or attempted destabilization of the government.

http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/grandjuryrules.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmatio_Cartarum

Ironically though, the worse damage done by these people is to the US Constitution. In their battle cries to supposedly "protect" it, they're ignoring everything the US Constitution - and the body of law established on it - stands for. The fact that the National Grand Jury and the "Common Law Grand Jury" it's akin to, have to cite the Magna Carta - along with de Vattel and the like - shows a disregard and lack of concern for what the US Constitution - and this nation - stands for.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hiding thread by "only interested in birther shit " PatGund
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PatGund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. *chuckle*
Actually interested in a lot more than that, but since a) I blog about these idiots and b) people here have asked me to post updates when anything interesting happens....

But suit yourself. :-)
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Pool Hall Ace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I enjoy reading your blog.
However, I am speechless at this point. :wow:
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. It's a dirty job, but somebody has to do it
It's like driving past an accident. I have a weird need to slow down and look.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Irrational people.
And very, very dumb.

I feel sorry for them. They truly don't have a clue how ridiculous they look.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Boy, they sure like to slap the Magna Carta around, don't they?
First, they disavow the little matter of Habeus Corpus and now they're citing it as if it were a stone tablet handed down by Gawd himself.

But then I never expected any semblance of consistency from them.

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. I *heart* you and WeDidIt
:applause:
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
6. At a certain point this is not going to be funny anymore
And law enforcement is going to have to get involved and look at what provisions of the Patriot Act (thanks for that law, President Bush!) can be used to shut these people down.
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PatGund Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. It's starting to be very unfunny.....
My biggest concern with this fantasy "grand jury" thing is that some hatriot is going to use this nonsense as an excuse for violence against Obama, his family, or other Government officials.

The secondary concern is, realizing that their "grand jury" has no power, will result in a parallel legal system being grown, along with a "shadow" US government, which will spur others into violence against the legitimate elected officials.


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jberryhill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. That's precisely where Orly Taitz is taking them....

One can already see the implication that any official which fails to "investigate" their crazy claims is one of "the enemy".

They should get Michele Bachmann on their side, since Bachmann has already declared Congress to be "enemy" territory.
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Veruca Salt Donating Member (846 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-30-09 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I was just about to say the same thing.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hey, wow, birthers are crazy, how new and exciting. nt
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. They need a vacation at GITMO.
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-29-09 10:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. They need a vacation at GITMO.
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