KO talking about Obama elitists with some guy who says that

[Raven]

the Democrats in DC are classmates of the elites on Wall Street and are indetifying with them and protecting them....no mention of the Republican part in this mess... also something about Obama not tearing up the bank CEO's contracts but about to tear up the car union contracts...I think it's over for Obama. The left and the right of his party has left him after barely 60 days and tonight I am leaving the Progressives. I have no home with them anymore. I voted for this man, I plan to give him a decent chance. Our own will destroy him and any hope we have left. I am disgusted beyond words.

[David Dunham]

1. Obama's auto plan is bad for workers and Democrats

I think that Obama is making a potentially fatal mistake. He is listening way too much to the Wall Street advisors on his automotive task force and is failing to understand the huge political risks he is taking with his rigid demands on the US automotive industry. The Wall Street Journal tonight reports that Obama's people favor bankruptcy for both GM and Chrysler. Forcing those companies into even some sort of prepackaged bankruptcy may well not enable them to come out of it well. Who wants to buy a car from a company in bankruptcy? Moreover, forcing them into bankruptcy will mean that hundreds of thousands of retirees who in 2008 likely voted for Obama will lose their health care benefits and their pensions will be transferred to the federal government and thereafter reduced substantially. Furthermore, in bankruptcy, all the UAW contracts will be invalidated, and many more thousands or tens of thousands of workers will be laid off. In addition, many of the hundreds of thousands of people who work for auto parts suppliers may well lose their jobs. Auto dealers across the country will also go out of business.

The upshot will be that hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of people connected to the automotive industry will be much worse off, and they will sooner or later come to attribute it to the approach that Obama and his task force have implemented (unless that course is reversed soon). Unemployment could easily rise to 15 to 20 percent or more in states like Michigan, Ohio and Indiana. By that point, and probably much sooner, some Democrats from those states will begin to openly challenge Obama. He will be wholly open to the charge that he gave hundreds of billions to save Wall Street banks but did relatively nothing to save the car companies and the jobs of their employees and the benefits of their retirees. He will also be open to the charge that he had no one with any experience in the automotive industry on his task force that put in place the plan that drove the car companies into bankruptcy. In addition, he will be open to the charge that, while other governments around the world are now bailing out their car companies, the US under Obama allowed its car companies to fall into bankruptcy.

Unless Obama changes course or his plan miraculously works (which I doubt), I'd watch for a charismatic Midwestern Democrat, like Congresspersons Ryan or Kaptur of Ohio, to emerge as a leading critic of Obama within the next year -- a sort of twenty-first century version of William Jennings Bryan. Obama, if he does not reverse himself, may be making the same mistakes that Grover Cleveland made in addressing the depression that started in 1893 -- agreeing to bailout Wall Street banks but not doing enough to provide assistance to ordinary American workers who usually vote Democratic. The result in the 1890s was that William Jennings Bryan emerged as a leading critic of President Cleveland, won the Democratic nomination in 1896, and went on to lose the presidency to William McKinley. The Republicans thereafter controlled the White House for sixteen years.

[Raven]

6. It bothers me that the UAW has made no concessions and I can't

fathom how it makes any sense to throw more taxpayers money at these companies. I work in a small NH town and all of us took pay cuts to avoid layoffs. I can't afford my taxes going to a bunch of auto CEO's who can't make their companies work and I don't know what to think of Unions who won't participate in the solution. Where am I thinking wrong here?

[rockymountaindem]

21. The UAW made no concessions?

Yes, yes they did.

[brentspeak]

27. "It bothers me that the UAW has made no concessions"

That's where your thinking went wrong.

[GrantDem]

40. The UAW has made no concessions???

WTF?

[amandabeech]

61. The UAW has been doing nothing but making concessions for years!!!

Those concessions have not been reported here, and rarely in the NYT or WashPost.

I suggest you go to the UAW website and read up before you believe everything the hated idiots of the MSM has to say about this.

I'm sure that you can find your own way.

[madmom]

77. I AM SO FUCKING SICK OF PEOPLE TELLING ME WE TOOK NO CONCESSIONS!

I am a wife of a GM retiree and if you think we took no concessions then your are either blind, illiterate or stupid, I don't know which. Stop believing everything you see/hear on your tv and do some research. It's NOT the UAW who didn't make concessions it's the management who wouldn't give up their high life.The rank and file have been saying for years that the 14th floor was killing GM, but what do we know, we're just stupid assembly-line/blue collar workers with out a college edumacation!

[w4rma]

82. I'm pissed that some of those people are saying they are zealot Obama supporters. (nt)

[madmom]

84. Don't know who the "those people" are that your are referring to, but I know I worked my ass off

for Obama and now I am for the first time having the slightest tinge of possible regret, maybe. I'm willing to wait, but not for much longer.

[Thrill]

7. I would like to know what they suggest. Just keep pouring billions into GM?

Where does it end? They're losing billions every month. No one is buying the cars. What are there suggestions. As usual with Obama. I hear a ton of complaints but no alternative solutions

[jeanpalmer]

50. Obama did the right thing there

By getting rid of the CEO, he sent a message to all parties to get serious or else bankruptcy lay ahead.

[babylonsister]

24. SAYS WHO? I've read some very positive remarks. Here's one...

the 'horror' here is just ridiculous.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/03/cars-vs-cash

Cars vs. Cash
— By Kevin Drum | Mon March 30, 2009


In one sense, I was surprised and impressed by Barack Obama's auto bailout announcement this morning. He was, appropriately I think, fairly tough. From GM, he insisted that they fire their CEO and submit a tougher restructuring plan. From Chrysler, he insisted that they consummate a deal with Fiat and said flatly that they'd be allowed to go under if they didn't. This is appropriate: a private investor wouldn't treat Chrysler and GM identically, and there's no reason the federal government should either.

Still, it's hard not to do a double take at his actual words:

"We cannot, we must not, and we will not let our auto industry simply vanish. . . . It is a pillar of our economy that has held up the dreams of millions of our people. But we also cannot continue to excuse poor decisions. And we cannot make the survival of our auto industry dependent on an unending flow of tax dollars. These companies — and this industry — must ultimately stand on their own, not as wards of the state."

more...

[amandabeech]

62. Yes, I've seen this.

I'd like to know a lot more about Kevin Drum.

You know, where he's been in life. It makes a lot of difference in your perspective, including those perspectives of "progressives."

[babylonsister]

85. He likes cats...

:shrug: (and ftr, I don't really, so that's not why I like him. He makes sense to me.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Drum

[amandabeech]

88. He makes no sense to me in this piece. n/t

[babylonsister]

89. What a surprise. nt

[amandabeech]

90. You're about as surprised as I was of your enthusiastic support.

n/t

[firedupdem]

2. I'm giving him a chance too. I'm glad I didn't watch tonight. I will

decide for myself how he's doing and go from there. I knew it wouldn't be easy for him, but it's not over this soon. No matter how hard they try. Don't even think it.

[HopeOverFear]

3. I saw that yes, Keithy not too happy with President O today.

it's all good.

[Thrill]

4. Democrats always eat their own. No surprise

[dflprincess]

8. I'm sure you're talking about Obama throwing

blue collar workers under the bus while saving Wall Street.

[Thrill]

10. Explain? What do you suggest? Continue to blow billions on GM and Chrysler?

They lose billions every month and No one is buying their cars. He could of held them to the Bush terms which mean, they would be filing for Bankruptcy today. He didn't. He gave them yet another 2 months

[dflprincess]

19. He's willing to blow billions on Wall Street

and he's willing to respect contracts for executive bonuses. But auto workers - not so much.

[Thrill]

22. Its not about the Auto workers and you know it.

The company can't sell cars. They lose the money, time the government gives it to them.

[amandabeech]

63. The big banks are insolvent, yet we continue to throw money at them.

The big financial institutions were the creators of the "toxic assets" that have blown up the world financial system. They are some of the worst products pushed out the door of any business.

Why should we be throwing tax dollars at insolvent businesses who make toxic products?

I think that we should bring in banks from Japan, German and China, who are not insolvent (or who are being propped up by someone else's tax dollars) and who don't make poisonous products to sell us good banking and investment products. After all, isn't that what free trade means? The best win and we get to have it.

[Windy]

28. the big three fought enacting cafe for years and see where it got them

As O said, the problem is from washington to the board room, not the workers.

[dflprincess]

31. But whose going to get hurt the worse?

Not the guys in the board rooms and for sure no one in Washington. It's too bad the auto workers didn't have enough money to buy more politicians than Wall Street did.

[Thrill]

34. You keep criticizing but you offer no suggestions. What do you suggest?

[dflprincess]

41. Take the money from Wall Street

and give to the car companies - strings can be attached. Or let the companies go broke, but use the bail out money to make sure the workers still have health insurance, keep their homes and get retrained - Obama's current plan is just going to throw them to the wolves.

[mvd]

46. Wish I could recommend your post

:applause:

[Thrill]

47. They keep losing the money time they give it to them? How does that make sense?

Obama hasn't said he is going to abandon the workers? In fact he said the opposite. Did you hear the whole reason Ed Montgomery was on the stage with him? Or did you just disregard that whole part of the speech?

[EmilyAnne]

53. How on earth could something like this help America as a whole? If a company is dead in the water,

something needs to be done. Changes must be made. The government should just hire the employees to produce cars that no one will buy? This makes no sense at all.

Wall Street and the banking sector are not going to just go under. They need to be strengthened to pull the entire country, even these autoworkers, back up out of this financial disaster.

Obama is providing assistance related to extended unemployment benefits and COBRA insurance that will help all unemployed people, not just autoworkers.
He also has job creation in his stimulus package.
Don't pretend that he is simply ignoring the unemployed.

[mvd]

55. I don't put very much faith in the banks

They already had the bonus scandal.

A bankruptcy in the auto industry would have far reaching effects. We are talking about millions of jobs lost. Continued infusions of cash until they get their act together would be far better - IMO even a conditional bailout would be better.

[dflprincess]

57. Cobra lasts for 18 months

For those who qualify the government will currently pick up 65% of the cost but not for the entire 18 months (I think it's for 9 months). That may work for single coverage, but if you're still picking up 35% of the bill for family coverage the cost may still be out of reach if unemployment is your only income.

Unemployement benefits are only being extended for another 13-26 weeks and in an economy like this that might still not be enough to find a job, especially for older workers or blue collar workers. And there's no guarantee when you get a job you'll have insurance or make enough money to pay your mortgage (if you haven't already lost your house).

Explain to me why the contracts Wall Street executives have are sacred, but the auto workers contracts are not. If tax money is being used to pay bonuses to white collar crooks, it can be used to honor the contracts of blue collar workers.

[mvd]

60. I continue to dislike the double standard with the banks and auto industry

We didn't have to bail them out right away. Bush did it on purpose so it makes things harder on Obama. More help for the banks should wait, and yes, buying the contracts would not be a bad thing.

[amandabeech]

65. B.S.

Let the financial companies face bankruptcy.

Then let's bring in bankers from other countries like Brazil or Japan or China or Germany who are solvent and know how to do business and stay profitable to come in here and take over.

I don't want any more of my tax money to bail out businesses that aren't given the treatment that the automakers are and will be given.

Neither individuals nor institutions are irreplaceable in today's world.

[madmom]

78. Who is going to hire a 60 year old with pre-existing medical conditions after he/she looses

their pension and health insurance?

[amandabeech]

64. The big financial institutions fought tooth and nail for years against regulation

of their poisonous products, i.e. the toxic assets called MBS's CDOs and CDSs.

The problem is from Washington to those board rooms.

However, the workers at the auto companies and their suppliers have taken big hits, especially union employees to their current compensation and to their retirement compensation FOR YEARS. Automakers have had problems for years and there have been concessions FOR YEARS.

That hasn't happened at the banks. There was an attempt recently, not backed by Geithner nor wholly backed by Obama to make examples of the very top. I want TOP DOWN wage and benefit cuts at financial institutions before any more of my tax dollars are funneled to any financial institution.

[amandabeech]

74. The financial institutions fought regulation of the sale of toxic assets for years, too.

Remember, Summers, Gelsner and Geither were fighting against that same regulation when they worked in the Clinton administration.

The banks should not get better treatment than Detroit.

[Skittles]

23. no

Democrats eat the bad seeds - we don't fucking goose step

[Skip Intro]

44. Why tho? Why?

[ikojo]

5. Barack Obama has allied himself with the DLC

wing of the Democratic party. With the DLC there is no room for unions and working class people. Sorry if Mr Gross' analysis and truth telling bothers you. He's too close to the people who got us in this mess with their championing of deregulation in the late 1990s (the CLINTON years). CLINTON, a Democrat, oversaw the doing away with of the Glass Stegall Act in 1998. JOE BIDEN supported and voted for the draconian bankruptcy legislation that passed in 2005.

I, too, voted for Obama but am not happy with how he is treating working people versus how he and his wall street friends are treating the bankers and other millionaires.

The Democrats hands are not free of the blood of the working class.

[Thrill]

9. Ok what is your suggestion for the Auto industry? If he wasn't a friend to the working class

he would of let GM go bankrupt today which is what the Bush terms were.

[HopeOverFear]

11. I wonder how the GOP will manipulate the anger of some of these people

to their advantage?

[Raven]

12. I think the suggestion is to just keep throwing our money at this problem and

that makes no sense to me.

[Thrill]

14. But no one can or want to buy the cars

[amandabeech]

67. People buy GM products where I grow up.

They also like them.

You sound like someone who's hasn't even looked at one for 20 years.

[Raineyb]

38. It makes the no sense to keep throwing our money at Wall Street

but we're doing that.

Money talks, blue collar workers walk.

Regards

[Thrill]

43. Sure it does. We have to free up credit. If we don't do that. No one is going to be able

to buy cars, houses, or anything

[amandabeech]

68. Who says that the current financial criminals have to be the ones who offer credit?

Sure, we need banks, but why do we have to have these? They are insolvent because they sold bad products and made bad decisions.

Let's let the market work and get some other banks in here to take their places.

Isn't that what free markets are all about?

[mvd]

48. I really don't think the auto. industry should be allowed to be bankrupt

Unless a clear safety net for the workers is set up. Work with the companies and make conditions, yes, but don't just say "go bankrupt."

[amandabeech]

66. What Obama is doing is a pre-bankruptcy work out.

He should do the same with the financial institutions and he should require everyone at those places to TAKE A BIG HIT IN COMPENSATION, and allow the government to tell them how to run their businesses.

[MarjorieG]

15. Hard to admit, but most decisions are not easy where they are few resources.

Mitt wanted to shut them down in December. Obama wants to find a way to give a lifeline, because people don't want to bail out more.

Remember O saying, the only thing worse for the public than bank bailouts, is the auto bailout. Order correct?

[Thrill]

18. I keep hearing the criticism. But no one can tell me what Obama should of done different?

Besides keep throwing Billions at them. Even though they keep losing billions every month.

[amandabeech]

69. Don't make the unions give up more. They've done their share.

Keep them afloat like the banks to whom we continue to throw billions and perhaps trillions.

Easy, isn't it.

Besides, if Obama is right and the economy starts to grow in the second half of this year, the situation will be very much better soon.

[GOTV]

37. Wouldn't the auto bailout be small compared to the bank bailout? ...

... in which case why would IT be the only thing worse than the bank bailout. Shouldn't that be the other way around?

[Raineyb]

39. Exactly!

We're nickel and diming the auto industry while throwing hundreds of billions down the black hole of the cheating, lying, greedy asswipes on Wall Street. But we're not supposed to complain about this?

Regards

[mvd]

51. Yes

Obama should tie bailout money to restructuring. If they don't restructure in a way that makes them viable, make more demands until they do. Give more than a one-time infusion of cash. And there's no way there shouldn't be something there to protect the workers if bankruptcy occurs.

I'm wary about the Geithner plan, but am willing to put trust in the President right now. But with the auto industry, the fate of many workers hangs in the balance - and during a bad recession.

[jeanpalmer]

52. Obama is doing the right thing

The government can't run GM. It can't turn GM into a ward of the state whereby taxpayers fund it. That's what all the involved parties were hoping for -- that the government would provide an endless supply of money. Obama is sending a message that that won't happen. And it puts the parties on notice that they have 60 days to get their acts together. Otherwise, bankruptcy. Now the parties involved will get serious and get a deal done.

[mvd]

54. I don't completely agree

The workers have to count for something. Bankruptcy involves a lot more than playing tough, especially during this recession. We did it on a much grander scale for the banks.

[amandabeech]

70. Let's give the banks 60 days to get their acts together and then cut them off, too.

That's what I'm pushing for.

I assume that you are too.

[TTUBatfan2008]

13. I agree...

If Democrats want to know why they have a hard time ever maintaining power, look no further than the kind of vindictiveness that's being launched at Obama from "supporters." Oh well, I'm pretty much a libertarian so I'll just sit back and watch this and laugh. Democrats will help their guy end up with one term and some nutjob like Palin will get into office and destroy many of the basic things liberals supposedly stand for, including abortion and stem cell research.

[jefferson_dem]

16. I too am frustrated.

I didn't expect any different from the self-appointed purity police on the left...knew it was only a matter of time. The torches and pitchforks have come out sooner than expected, however.

Now...onward...with vigor. This Democratic President deserves a decent chance, as you mention.

[TTUBatfan2008]

17. Get ready for President Palin...

Because that's exactly what the left is setting things up for right now.

[CTLawGuy]

25. ain't that the truth

NT

[amandabeech]

71. Well, if this doesn't turn out well, Obama will lose Michigan and might lose Indiana and Ohio.

Who knows what other states will suffer under while the banksters get all the money.

[safeinOhio]

32. I'm with you

Just think where we would be if McCain was President.

[Jim Sagle]

20. It's premature to write him off entirely.

And it's WAY too soon to expect cleanup of a mess that developed over several decades.

BUT so many of his actions indicate that he's not on our side. He's got time to re-orient himself, if he wants to.

[Thrill]

26. I don't buy that. Polling shows only 20% of the country want any

government intervention in the Auto industry. And if he wasn't on their side he would of held them to the Bush terms, which would mean they would be filing bankruptcy today

[Jim Sagle]

29. The other 80% have been brainwashed by CorpoMedia for decades.

Obama: tough on Detroit, soft on Wall Street. That's no good.

[Thrill]

30. Again what do you suggest? They aren't selling cars and they lose billions every month?

What do you suggest giving them Billions that they lose time you give it to them?

Banks can survive without the Car Industry. The Car Industry can't survive without the banks

[Jim Sagle]

36. The big 5 banks couldn't survive at all without the trillions already given them.

We could ALL survive EASILY without those 5 banks. They're a huge millstone.

[amandabeech]

73. Nobody's selling cars here or anywhere else.

The banks that are getting huge amounts of money are taking down the world.

Why should we bail them out?

There are lots of banks here and abroad who would be happy to lend you money if you have extremely good credit. You drive a Japanese, Korean or European auto, don't you. Why not do business with one of their banks?

Why shouldn't they take over from the insolvent banks that Obama and Geithner keep wanting to prop up.

You seem to have Wall Street blinders on. Do you work there?

[BobRossi]

33. He is doing it to himself.

The buck stops with the President.

[Thrill]

35. He's making tough decisions. He has to make in the worst crisis in 60 yrs.

Funny no one can offer a better suggestion than what Obama has offered. Even from all the experts in the media. No one is touching this because they know there is little support for continuing to pour money into these companies. And they don't have a better idea.

Everyone can criticize. But can't offer a better solution that makes sense.

[amandabeech]

75. Believe me, the MSM has been banging the anti-union drum for more than a century.

I have yet to see a worker-oriented expert on TV. They're all reading from the same page that you are.

I say treat Detoit and the financial unions the same.

Both will undoubtedly be in a better position when the economy starts to turn around. Then see what adjustments need to be made. Don't make hasty decisions in a crisis if you can avoid it.

That's what Obama is doing with the banks and that's what he'd doing with Detroit.

Take your banking blinders off. No one is special anymore.

[rustbeltrefugee]

42. Symptom Not Problem

x( Having been born and raised in Michigan I believe I have a say in this. Everybody is missing the BIG PROBLEM that has caused this entire situation for the BIG three. We can throw all the money at this as we want, but until the foreign automakers are FORCED to play by the same rules as Detroit, it is game over. If you have bought a foregn make of car, no matter where it was built, you crossed the picket line, you bought a scab built car. The labor movement was born in Detroit and is the only reason there is a (was) a true middle class in this country. The Japanese auto makers have been subsidized to enable them to cut down costs per vehicle and ask any worker at these plants about joining the UAW and they will literally piss their pants. If you are a liberal and drive a Japanese car, look long and hard at yourself in the mirror and ask if you are part of the problem, the solution or just a HYPOCRITE?!

[Laelth]

45. Welcome to DU!

:dem:

-Laelth

[amandabeech]

76. Here! Here! n/t

[madmom]

81. Bravo, my friend BRAVO! Oh and welcome to DU : )

[jeanpalmer]

49. Hold on there man

Just because good-willed people might disagree with him on a particular issue doesn't mean they're throwing him overboard. They're trying to shape policy. He's only had 60 days. Give him a chance. I think the American people realize he was given a bad hand by his predecessor. He can't do the impossible.

[babylonsister]

56. jeanpalmer, welcome to DU. And you're right. nt

[mvd]

58. On that post, we agree

But the country doesn't need lower consumer confidance and more millions of people out of work. A bankruptcy would mean mass layoffs. I hope Obama doesn't seriously consider letting the industry fail. There are some positive signs coming already from the threats - we'll see where it goes from there.

[amandabeech]

80. He wanted the job. Now he has it and has to perform now.

What he's doing with Detroit and what he's refusing to do with the banks is to force the firing of a huge number of people in 60 days in a labor economy that is just a bit better than the Great Depression, at least in the areas where his decisions will affect the most people.

Their lives are in his hands. It's not just their jobs, it's their dignity and perhaps their ability to be employed for the rest of their lives.

Older laid off people are the last rehired. Their experience means nothing, and for the UAW members, previous union membership is a turn off, especially in parts of the country where the states have hugely subsidized the manufacturing sector.

He has no one from manufacturing in his inner circle, at least I've never heard of one, and I've been looking. The only people he listens to are bankers and their regulators. It was an investment banker that he delegated to tell Wagoner that he had to go. Obama didn't do it himself, and I think that reflects his view of the status of auto manufacturing.

Obama worked with laid off Steelworkers in Chicago, but he didn't try working with the steel companies to try to work to get jobs and dignity back. What he did was to try to get the City of Chicago to offer hand-outs. In a way, that was writing people off in this country.

I thought that fairness was a Democratic value. I let go of that illusion yesterday.

If he's really not ready to be criticized for what he does, then he should wait until he is ready before he starts picking favorites in this economy, which in fact, he did yesterday.

[Jennicut]

59. With regard to Wall St. we would be paying for their mistakes either way

with nationalization or helping to buy the bad assets up. Or of course, let the banks fail Rethug free market style. The auto industry does not control people's ability to get capital and loan money. So its easier to restructure it. One is not held hostage trying to force the auto industry to make changes, you just force them.

[redqueen]

79. Oh thank goodness...

finally, someone I completely agree with on this issue.

The auto industry holds relatively little bargaining power... Wall Street has tons.

[rvablue]

72. "I think it's over for Obama"

Oh come on, overreact much??

What did you think was going to happen after he took office?

KO and Rachel are not going to rubber stamp everything this President does.

Don't freak out every time they criticize him.

Frankly, it doesn't really matter what they think.

What matters is if the stimulus and the bail out fix the economy.

If it works, the American people will be happy and content and he will be re-elected.

If it doesn't, he's going to have to do some serious campaigning once again to make that happen.

For now, I suggest you look back at 1993/1994 and what the media and the right wing echo chamber were saying about Clinton.

And remember what happened there: he was a two term President who left office with fairly high approval ratings even after a sex scandal and an impeachment trial.

Deep breaths, Raven deep breaths.

[fascisthunter]

83. oh oh.... Olbermann is now on the list

Krugman move over....

I seriously doubt you ever were a Progressive by the stances you have taken in the past, not to mention your claim up thread of the Union not making any concessions. That's a BS corporate media lie....

[jimmybama]

86. Blame Obama

At least UAW has a pension to cry about. What about the
millions of people that got screwed out of their (my)
retirement? Ain't no guarantees in this life. Blame Obama for 
GM losing BILLIONS of dollars quarterly. Get a fuckin clue
everybody. O didn't create this mess and GM was goin down with
or without him. And people that compare the auto industry with
the banking industry are buffoons and don't have a clue about
the complexity of the financial situation. These aint apples
and oranges. Personally I dont think any of this shit should
be bailed out. They should have to solve their financial
problems just like old everyday joe solves the problem. You
think Palin McCain would have a clue what to do? These
policies aint gonna work overnight. As this problem wasn't
created overnight. There, now I feel better.

[asphalt.jungle]

87. yeah comparing the two

is just like when people say how come the FDIC can take over small banks, but they don't want to nationalize these monstrosities that have their tentacles stuck in everything. it's not the same thing at all. GM was on a path to failure long before this financial crisis, this just exacerbated it. anyone who has had their credit line cut has seen the effects of the financial industry's troubles. ironically the same people complaining about the "double standards" don't seem to realize that there would be no car industry if not for credit. i can't buy your car if someone won't finance it.

the banks will get out of this and start making money again, GM can't even make money when 14 million cars are sold in the country every year, so using the drop in demand as an excuse doesn't fly. if your business is struggling because of a big drop in demand then there is a good chance that you will come back when the crisis is over. if your business is a failure when demand is normal then you will be permanently sucking at the teet of the federal govt.