Admin Walks Back Rahm Remarks: WH WILL Pursue Torture Policy Lawyers

[babylonsister]

Edit to change tense in OP. :bounce:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/white_house_rahm_didnt_mean_what_he_said_on_not_pr.php?ref=fp1

White House: Rahm Didn't Mean What He Said On Not Prosecuting Bushies For Torture
By Zachary Roth - April 21, 2009, 10:06AM


On Sunday, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel went on ABC's This Week With George Stephanopoulos and clearly declared that the Obama administration would not prosecute the Bushies who "devised" torture policies.

That seemed to go further than anything the administration had said before. So yesterday we called the White House to get a more formal statement on the issue. And when we didn't hear back, we got to wondering: had Rahm been freelancing, and gotten out ahead of White House policy?

Looks like that's what happened: the White House now appears to be walking back Rahm's comments. The New York Times reports today:

{A}dministration officials said Monday that Mr. Emanuel had meant the officials who ordered the policies carried out, not the lawyers who provided the legal rationale.

In other words, Rahm slipped up.

We're glad the White House has walked back that position -- amid what seems to be mounting pressure to hold Bush officials fully accountable (more on that in a bit). But if nothing else, the episode may provide an interesting window into the White House chief of staff' personal views on the issue.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. It Would Be A Start

But everyone who commits war crimes is responsible. The Nuremberg trials established that "following orders" is not a defense, it is only a factor to consider at sentencing.

I suspect this is just a morsel tossed to actual Democrats as Obama realizes that we're finally recognizing what's going on.

[AtomicKitten]

2. Excellent!!!

I thought Rahm was just barking!

:thumbsup:

[ErinBerin84]

3. did anyone watch the This Week episode?

It was weird, because Rahm was really evasive, and then finally said something at the very end about no prosecutions. He mostly regurgitated the "we need to move forward and not prosecute the people who caried out these methods in good faith", blah blah blah, etc. And then George asked again about Bush officials, and he still tried to be evasive, and then like mumbled the thing at the end. I actually went to DU and Politico/Huffington Post didn't pick up on it until the end of the day, so I thought that I had misheard it at first. He definitely seemed like he didn't want to answer it (like Gibbs yesterday), so I thought something was up when he added that at the end. I hope that this isn't just rhetoric from the White House officials, to placate people that want investigations (I mean, that it's being considered).

[meli224]

4. MSNBC is reporting that now

from the AP. It's starting to get interesting..

[Skidmore]

5. Yes, a good start, and I hope

the rotting mess in Congress gets exposed and punished too. Anytime another government is allowed to dictate policies of our nation, then we are in severe trouble. AIPAC should be not be a lobby group. If the government of Israel wants to negotiate policy with with our goverment, then it need to do it through the front door and not undermine this nation in the process.

[glitch]

22. Well said. nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. The administration should not have a position either way

The more I think about it the clearer it seems that all these comments, either way, are interference with the independence of the Attorney General.

The DoJ cannot investigate the DoJ so any action would have to be through an indepndent prosecuter.

And only Holder can appoint one.

And by law it is his decision -- the president cannot instruct him because in that particular role Holder serves the people, not the president.

So the only correct public statement is, "That is entirly AG Holder's decision, as provided for by US law."

[ErinBerin84]

10. hmmmm, good points.

[Egnever]

27. I agree with this whole heartedly

Using the DOJ as an arm of the white house is what got us into this mess in the first place.

[jonestonesusa]

33. Agreed as well.

It seems to me that the less that administration officials say in advance about their interest in prosecuting these cases, the better. Floating the meme that we want to "move forward" has never been a good idea, in my opinion, though there was precision in the way President Obama discussed this issue in the campaign. That message discipline is not evident now.

[meli224]

7. MSNBC is supposed to get tape of President Obama

talking about this matter in a few minutes.

[jenmito]

8. David Shuster just reported that "Obama leaves door open for Bush-era 'Torture' prosecutions"

according to the AP!

[babylonsister]

9. Whatever will the naysayers do? One less thing to

slam Obama for!

[jenmito]

13. They'll find something. The tape's being played back now.

:hi:

[cascadiance]

14. The important thing is for the correct things to happen, not to slam Obama...

I've criticized Obama a lot recently, but if he starts doing things the correct way, even if he and his staff have to change their earlier statements, I'll cheer them on.

This isn't about destroying people, it's about making sure the right things are done to rescue our country! I'd like to think a lot of other DUers here think like I do...

[Realtalk]

18. Good Answer!

*applause*

[cascadiance]

25. I still rate him "incomplete" on the torture issues (with a brewing failing grade there)...

... if nothing new comes about like an independent prosecutor appointment.

I think he needs to assign one to investigate Harman and other AIPAC influences too.

And he has a negative grade on NAFTA now too, if he doesn't go back to fulfill his promises of renegotiating these free trade agreements that are a root of a lot of the global economic problems, global warming, as well as our problems with immigration, etc.

[babylonsister]

30. Then I wasn't referring to you. I have no problem with

constructive criticism, but I do have a problem with some people's consistency in slamming him over everything, never lauding when that is also due.

[cascadiance]

48. I'm glad he didn't listen to DiFi and appoint Harman as head of CIA!

And instead hired Panetta. Said so at the time a while back too. Now I'm even more glad. I still think DiFi has a lot she might be concealing with that in mind...

[tridim]

15. I'm certain they'll find something else to slam him with.

They're probably already discussing their next move in private.

:eyes:

[Egnever]

34. looks like they already have something lined up

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3840631&mesg_id=3840631

[AtomicKitten]

12. Oh, hell yes.

thanks for the excellent update, Jen

:thumbsup:

[jenmito]

16. No problem...

just posting what I see! I report you decide. :D

[AtomicKitten]

44. OK, I've decided.

:yourock:

[jenmito]

50. ...

Awww, shucks. Thanks, AK! But so do you! :yourock:

[annabanana]

69. He always did... It IS nice to see him repeat it, after Rahm's clumsy

talking around it this weekend... LOOK at Rahm's ACTUAL WORDS...

[asjr]

11. I think President Obama knows exactlly

what he is doing. Enough media coverage either pro or con can only help.

[Canuckistanian]

17. Good!

Maybe Rahm should actually check with the boss before shooting his mouth off.

[olegramps]

57. Give me a break.

It is going to play as a major reversal in policy. President Obama should have never said anything about not prosecuting CIA agents. That is the job of DOJ.

[Canuckistanian]

72. Yeah, that's true

But do you mean that Obama overstepped his constitutional authority?

[ClarkUSA]

19. Another misguided poutrage meme hits the dust. Whatever will shit-stirrers post about now?

First Ahmedinejad takes a crap at the UN Conference on Racism and evacuates the room, making Pres. Obama's decision
not to attend it seem like a brilliantly prescient political checkmate. Now this.

Heh heh.

[Egnever]

24. I am sure someone will catch him farting or something

If I hadnt seen many of the people that post anti obama screeds here every day posting for years , I would swear they were plants. I just dont understand how they can always believe the worst first.

[ClarkUSA]

46. You're right about the "something" part.

If I hadnt seen many of the people that post anti obama screeds here every day posting for years , I would swear they were plants.

True, but there are plenty of PUMA/freeper plants and sockpuppets of banned members, too; that's how "they can always believe the
worst first." It's a dead giveaway. They never liked Pres. Obama in the first place and now they see an opportunity to exploit any
poutrage meme.

[Egnever]

51. No doubt

Thats a part of it. It really is a strange phenomenon though. I have never in my 42 years seen such an effective president yet to hear some of these people he has been on vacation or deliberately undermining the american people since he got in office. Its just bizzare!

[ClarkUSA]

55. There's a deep-seated pathology in many minds here that leads to this sort of cognitive dissonance.

Bitter sore loserdom is another way to describe it. Deliberately fomenting anger against President Obama is their way of getting
"revenge". They are the first to cry victim when confronted with their nonsense, of course.

[jewishlibrl]

64. It was because of "shit-stirrers" that the administration FLIP FLOPPED

I am particularly proud of having stirred the shit on this one.
Emanuel and Gibbs said one thing and now that the shit has been stirred the story changes, which is GREAT!

[ClarkUSA]

65. And you know this how, Grandiose One? More like y'all read it wrong. Many knew this was the plan..

... we non shit-stirrers aren't surprised at all by Pres. Obama's position.

[Lilith Velkor]

67. Thank you.

on edit: Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Egnever]

68. What flip flop?

Nothing has changed from what he said to start other than him clarifying for people to stupid to pay attention to what he said in the first place.

[Egnever]

20. Bull!

As has been stated clearly here a million times obama is all about looking forward. He doesn't think anyone should have to atone for us using torture.

:sarcasm:

The contingent of believe the worst of obama first gets another smack down.

[HamdenRice]

21. But, but, but, but ... Obama is EXACTLY the SAME as Boosh!11!

OK so who cares about prosecuting torturers. On to the next poutrage!

Michelle doesn't get DIRTY ENOUGH when she gardens!!1

And what about the promise to adopt a SHELTER DOG!1!

[chill_wind]

23. Excellent find and timely news, babylonsister.

:thumbsup:

President Obama, please put a leash on your fury stirring freelancer. More Axlerod. Less Rahm.

[Peacetrain]

26. I have said it 100 times if I have said it once.. and I will do it again

As a early early on supporter of President Obama, having seen how he works up close and personal in the Iowa caucuses...Trust me on this, never ever ever fall for the first story out of the media.


Ever.. you may disagree with him on many things, but he has a way of letting a story run its course before reeling it back in.

I think he has caught the genesis of how stories get a 24/7 pounding on the media beast.. if you cannot get it out quickly enough to get it turned around, then let the talking heads talk themselves out and go back in and set it straight.

There is not point in even trying when they are in the middle of a feeding frenzy.. no one will listen.

Example:
No one remembers the guns and religion comment was actually a sympathetic comment trying to explain to an unsympathetic audience why uninformed voters vote the way they do. Circumstances that surround them impact their world view.

He is going after the head of the snake, the people who actually ordered the deeds.. so we never have to face this again. We do not want to see Cheney and his ilk regurgitated on us 7 years from now so the cycle will repeat itself.

Edit to add: Thank you babylonsister :hi:

[Egnever]

38. Exactly!

This guy is not a sprinter. He plans and he plans well!

[Peacetrain]

49. It is quite the thing to watch..He most definitely is in for the long haul

[Cha]

61. And, cheney has been acting

real scared, lately..like he knew this was coming.:scared:

Thanks for your analysis, Peacetrain.

Obama & Crew not only have to defeat the republicons but the corporatemedia, too.

[Peacetrain]

66. Yep that is what I am reading between the lines myself..

The truth is coming out Cha.. the truth is coming out

[chill_wind]

28. K & R n/t

[jenmito]

29. He just said: "With respect to those who FORMULATED those legal decisions, (torture memos)

I would say that is gonna be more of a decision for the Attorney General, within the parameters of various laws, and I don't want to prejudge that..." :bounce:

[babylonsister]

31. Can you see me, because I'm smiling ear to ear right about now!

:toast: :fistbump:

[jenmito]

32. YES I CAN!

:toast: :fistbump:

[babylonsister]

37. I wonder if Cheney provided the final straw that 'inspired' this admin

to pursue what they should be pursuing? He sure didn't help imo. :rofl: Yay! :patriot:

[jenmito]

47. He sure helped (I bet)! But also, Dianne Feinstein sent Obama a letter

asking him not to shut the door on those who set the policy. At least that's what I thought I heard yesterday. Looks like he got the memo and agreed with her. :D

[babylonsister]

52. Here's a thread on DiFi and the letter she sent...

I don't trust her, but now it doesn't matter. If she had ulterior motives to let all this go away, that ain't happening now!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5498619&mesg_id=5498619

[jenmito]

54. Thanks...

I'll check it out. :hi:

[Realtalk]

39. As am I...

As am I.

[ErinBerin84]

35. Shuster makes me laugh

He was like "One of the most...intriguing....news...photo ops...eh", and then started shouting about the Attorney General thing. Ah, I wish he still had a show.

[Realtalk]

36. LOL

Me too! I love him and the way he moves his mouth...

[jenmito]

40. I know. He is so "animated" about what he says. I wish he took Andrea Mitchell's place!

She's the WORST.

[ErinBerin84]

43. yep

I always feel like Andrea is going to drift off at any minute. She always seems so...medicated or something.

[jenmito]

Yeah...

She seems as if she's not even listening to the person she's talking to. And she has no "rhythm" or "flow" to her reporting/interviewing style. No follow-ups, doesn't know when to stop talking, can't move her face, etc. It's painful watching her.

[babylonsister]

41. Maybe once KO comes back to work he'll get the 2 hours he was

promised in the afternoon. I hope so, too.

[Jennicut]

42. Rahm and Gibbs were being evasive because there has been a debate in the administration

as to what to do. Lets all be greatful Eric Holder is the AG as HE pushed most for the release of the memos (per a NY Times article) as well as the push for perhaps an independent prosecutor. I really really hope Holder keeps on this and does not let up.

[babylonsister]

45. I don't think there's a chance of Holder letting up.

I've read the WH watches m$nbc. They have got to have been feeling the heat, and the bloggers have been up in arms.

Now, we go forward!

[cascadiance]

53. As long as we in blogger and net community stay focused on the actions and not attacking the person!

That gives Holder that much more ammunition to make his case internally to do the correct thing and not whitewash torture, etc. If we come across as just attacking Obama, without regard to the specifics, then we'll be ignored, and disempower Holder in trying to do his part...

[Uzybone]

56. Holder = integrity

he has proved it again and again.

[Jennicut]

58. I really am starting to apprecitate Obama's pick of him

He is a pretty bold out there kind of guy, starting with his speech about race.

[Fire1]

70. I will NEVER believe ANYTHING that comes out of

Rahm Emmanuel's mouth!!!!! And that goes for GIBBS, TOO!!!

[MasonJar]

59. When will some of you DUers begin to understand that there is a

difference between expecting Obama to follow the Constitution amd investigate crimes and slamming him? If we do not push Obama, unfortunately he will not pursue the Bushista Crime Family. I do not know why not. Maybe he too is being blackmailed. However, I intend to let him and any politician know if I am disappointed in their actions. If you are as anxious as I for investigations, sign Move-on's petition to AG Holder demanding investigation of torture. It is listed on the DU main page.

[babylonsister]

60. Huh? Did you see the presser this a.m.? Here:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/4/21/722689/-Obama-Open-To-Bush-Administration-Torture-ProsecutionWill-Ask-Holder-To-Review-

Obama Open To Bush Administration Torture Prosecution - Will Ask Holder To Review

[vaberella]

75. He did not change his tune...so you're "push" was worthless. n/t

[Cha]

62. Thanks, babylonsis!

I was just thinking last night about what a shame it is that many posters don't know anything about PObama and they way he works but that doesn't stop them from doom and glooming themselves into a black hole.

[Fire1]

71. I'm convinced that these doom and gloomers were never

for him in the first place! Fuck em!

[Overseas]

63. Glad to hear it !! /nt

[agentS]

73. Maybe Cheney ran his mouth too many damn times

The Obama admin would've preferred to put torture investigations on the 2010-2011 agenda, but Dumb Cheney and Ari Flasher and the other Bustards can't keep their damn mouths shut.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032072 (story name- Cheney who?)

Cheney running out there criticizing the president for cleaning up Cheney's mess? Oh THAT'S RICH!
He stuck his swarmy little neck out, so now the Obama admin's gonna check his ass.

What's the old saying? The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[vaberella]

74. LOL! All the people screaming anti-O are MIA. n/t