Anyone who says waterboarding is not torture should prove it by being waterboarded

[LynneSin]

If they can survive 30 minutes of waterboarding by people who know how to waterboard then perhaps I'll listen to their message. Because anyone who can survive just 30 minutes of waterboarding and still call it 'not torture' - then perhaps they should be heard.

For the rest of you - perhaps you should STFU.

As for me, no I have not been waterboarded but since Christopher Hitchens was kind enough to submit himself to waterboarding - I'll listen to what he says and oh, he calls it torture.

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/08/hitchens200808

[Sparkly]

1. Calling Sean Hannity!!!

[LynneSin]

3. I heard about that - I'm sure Hitchen can hook Sean up with his waterboarding contacts

If Sean can survive what they put Hitchens thru and still wants to call WB non-torture then I suppose he has the right to say it.

Until then he really needs to STFU

[Hellataz]

23. Olberman offered him $1000 per second he could withstand water boarding

Hannity needs to put up or shut up.

[EmilyAnne]

24. It still wouldn't be the same because the water boarders would not be angry nor see the person as an

enemy.
Even Sean Hannity will be treated carefully because of the very real possibility that he could be accidentally drowned.
Who the hell is going to volunteer to publicly rough up Sean Hannity or any American citizens who are just curious about what its like?
Its ridiculous.
I agree with your OP, by the way, I just don't think its possible to replicate the experience in these people.

[WinkyDink]

28. Depends. They could enlist my services.

[TayTay]

2. Ah, that's bad logic and makes no sense

any one who thinks that murder is not a crime should prove it by being murdered.

Silly excessive statement.

[LynneSin]

5. The point is simple - people like Sean Hannity have no idea what the hell they are saying

Christopher Hitchens at least had the balls to go out there and get waterboarded before he wrote his article about waterboarding for Vanity Fair (and btw, he said it was definately torture).

[TayTay]

10. I completely agree

They believe in sentencing first, then a verdict and doing away with the trial all together.

That doesn't mean that they should be tortured. Torture is wrong. Induced suffering is wrong. Period. I don't want it used or joked about or casually mentioned as punishment for political enemies.

Torture is wrong because it violates everything we hold sacred about the rights of a human being. I want it stopped whenever and where ever that is possible.

[vaberella]

20. He said he'd do it for charity....for money he'd hurt himself.

I'm against torture and I realize the thought process is wrong...but as he rationalized it...if he wants it then it's not torture.

[mbperrin]

7. The correct formulation is murder is not fatal. Submitting to it to prove

the statement is the only logical way to settle it.

Nothing illogical here, just misframed.

Waterboarding not torture? Try it. Then have an informed opinion.

[LynneSin]

8. What he said

Which is why I posted the article from Vanity Fair from someone who decided he would allow himself to be Waterboarded by experts who were at the SERE training where they actually waterboard our own soldiers so they understand the type of situations they might find themselves in while in combat.

[TayTay]

14. Isn't the central premise that waterboarding is torture and

that torture is at all times bad and illegal according to international law?

Then how can anyone suggest that the only way to see if it is torture is to be tortured? Isn't that a moral contradiction in terms? If I believe that torture is wrong then why would I suggest that someone be tortured in order to prove that it's wrong and dangerous and harmful to an individual?

Torture is wrong. Period. It should not happen to anyone. Telling someone to "try it" so you can tell it's torture is skating on moral thin ice, don't you think? The folks who are fighting to end barbarism as a weapon of the state should think twice before they advocate for torture as a way to change someone's mind. (Isn't that using the very tactics we are denouncing?)

[alcibiades_mystery]

4. It's not the same if you don't think they might actually kill you

And, indeed, they did actually kill some people, so it wasn't an idle threat.

It's the feeling of drowning + the REAL fear of death that makes it torture, not just the physical sensation.

[DevonRex]

26. I should have read your post first. But GMTA. nt

[mscuedawg]

6. All you have to ask yourself is...

...would it be torture if OUR soldiers were detained and waterboarded?

And no...it makes NO DIFFERENCE that they were "terrorists"...what do people think that the US is when we invade THEIR land? Not everyone seems them as peace-keepers....

[NightWatcher]

9. keep waterboarding them until they admit that it's torture. If they can last 188 times, they win

I dont see any takers so far.

[tekisui]

12. That is ingenious.

Kills the argument dead.

[rateyes]

11. The US prosecuted waterboarding as a war crime, AND WON.

If it was torture when we said it was torture, it's torture now.

[havocmom]

13. If they won't put up or shut up, perhaps we should make them wear chicken suits

If they are gonna be hawks but never risk anything personally.... CHICKENS with delusions of being HAWKS

[MikeNearMcChord]

15. Here is an excellent point by the diarist Joesig at the Daily Kos

It is titled,"Spare me the fake waterboarding of SERE graduate torture advocates."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/24/723827/-Spare-me-the-fake-waterboarding-of-SERE-graduate-torture-advocates.

[LynneSin]

16. Hitchens had the SERE waterboarding and even he admits it's torture

But you're right - if these right-wing blowhards admit to waterboarding they need to ensure someone who knows how to do it properly and then administrates it as such does the waterboarding.

[mkultra]

17. does using a netipot count?

[LynneSin]

19. Should be - I tried the netipot - EPIC FAIL

and if I can't handle the netipot I highly doubt I could handle waterboarding.

[cwcwmack]

18. So in total...

How many prisoners were waterboarded? Does anyone know? I've heard that number is TWO, one being KSM. Is this true?

Oh and BTW, waterboarding lasts 10-30 seconds. not 30 minutes, lol.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

21. Unknown.

We have no idea how many total have been waterboarded -- two have been admitted to by the Bush Adminstration. :shrug:

The shit that was going on on Afghanistan and Iraq and in black site -- that included rape, murder, kidnapping, and other forms of torture than waterboading.

Waterboading is only the tip of the war crimes iceberg.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

22. Ummmm.. yes, it can last 30 minutes.

You can waterboard someone for 30 seconds at a time repeatedly for a thirty minutes total session.

[DevonRex]

25. It still isn't the same because they know the people doing it won't kill them.

[LynneSin]

27. Christopher Hitchens did it and he came out of it realizing it's torture

it's a great article from Vanity Fair and the waterboarding was done by SERE specialists. The specialists ended up quitting because Hitchen's was starting to react like he was ready to go unconscious.