MUST-READ: The Move Away from Single-Payer - David Sirota

[democrat2thecore]

It was a double-hitter day for David Sirota. He actually has two hard-hitting pieces on Obama and health care. They truly are both must-read pieces.

The Move Away from Single-Payer
http://www.openleft.com/diary/13294/the-move-away-from-singlepayer
David's column for Tuesday. One of his best ever - says it like it is.

Obama (and his economic conservative aides) are about to blow it. Again. When does the pandering to big business STOP?

And another great Sirota piece today:

Three Questions About Obama's "Major" Health Care Announcement Today
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009052011/three-questions-about-obamas-major-health-care-announcement-today

SINGLE-PAYER NOW!
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_resources.php
"Public Option" is not Single-Payer. It is a smokescreen that keeps multitudes of payers and the public option becomes the step-child. JUST SAY NO!

[lostnotforgotten]

1. Proof Positive - Obama Massive Fail - Monied Interests Have Won

eom

[John Q. Citizen]

16. I wouldn't call it proof positive. Sirota does make some good points though.

Why would you construe an opinion piece (and i usually agree with Sirota's opinion) as proof positive?

Are you hoping Obama lets us down?

I called my local Max Baucus office today, and I think I'm going down in person tomorrow.


I couldn't do that if I thought it was all hopeless. I mean why not just go home if all is lost?

Yet that's the feeling I get from your post. Was that your intent?


I never thought Obama was going to save us. I thought we were going to save him. But you don't think so?

[democrat2thecore]

19. PLEASE read this about Baucus before you go

Max Baucus Should Not Be Deciding Health Care for America
The “Senator for K Street” is Putting Campaign Donor Profits Ahead of the Basic Needs of the People

May 11, 2009 by Kevin Zeese - from Physicians For a National Health Program

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/may/max_baucus_should_no.php

And good on you for your involvement!

[madfloridian]

20. Zeese was Nader's campaign manager. He hated Democrats.

"Nader has said repeatedly that he will not drop out of the race, as several high-profile Democrats have encouraged him to do.

"Not a chance," said Zeese, Nader's campaign spokesman. "The Democrats have pissed us off so much. Democrats are wolves in sheep's clothing. The Republicans are just wolves."

Zeese said some Republicans who have contributed to Nader are the candidate's former classmates and colleagues. Others are Muslim Americans who agree with Nader's views about ending the American occupation in Iraq but agree with Bush’s conservative family values, he said."

http://www.opensecrets.org/capital_eye/inside.php?ID=136

More about the funding he took from right wing anti-gay groups.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/33

[democrat2thecore]

21. A broken clock is right twice a day. -nt

[John Q. Citizen]

22. Specter was a Republican and took money from Repos. Yet now we love him. What's the

problem? Obama got no problem. Teddy got no problem. Howie got no problem.

Joe worked for McCain. Now, he's one of our high seniority committee chairs. What's the problem? Obama got no problem. Teddy got no problem. Howie got no problem.


Nader? OH my fucking god, why he's the devil incarnate! and there are posters on DU who have a very big problem. but they aren't Obama, Teddy or Howie. so is that their problem?


Doesn't that seem somehow inconsistent? Not that I am (or any human is ) more consistent. In fact earlier today I was kind of arguing the other side of the health care debate with you and you were arguing the other side with me.

At least it seems like that to me.


however, I do believe it's very important that single payer is debated. I don't think it will be passed in the Senate this seesion. I hope that a good public option can be passed which leads to single payer. Yet I will still loudly and publicly call for the best idea, the best plan for people.

Why not the best? Ask for the best, and take what you can get. But don't ask for the least you can get. That's silly.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. I know Zeese

He is very progressive. And I agree with him completely on this health care issue.

I am no Nader fan but I don't think we need to dismiss everyone who ever worked for him or everyone who doesn't like Democrats either.

[John Q. Citizen]

28. Baucus has long championed the rich and the privileged. And he brings piles of money into the state,

which helps everyone have more money, here at least.

My reasons for going an having a talk with his staff is that I want a debate, on health care options.


I already know baucus isn't going to bite the hand of his corporate masters.


In fact, I'm considering having a protest demanding that Baucus denounce single payer, instead of just ignoring it. I mean if he thinks it's bad for America, why won't he come out and say it?

I wouldn't want him sullying the good name of a real good idea by associating himself with it.People might think single payers was a scam by the banks and insurance companies if Baucus came out for it.

[riderinthestorm]

40. I just called Max Baucus' Washington office and the woman who answered was VERY curt. Angry.

I say bring it on. These people need to hear it from a ton of people and I hope more DUers call both their own reps AND Baucus.

I applaud your action in going right there. Take it right to them.

:applause:

[snowdays]

44. Sen. Baucus---The man who loves the Health Insurance Industry.

[DrToast]

2. I do think Obama is playing things too safe...

What's he saving all this political capital for?

[Lorax7844]

8. They are waiting for the public to ring their phones off the hooks

have any of you written letters to the editor explaining what single payer is? Has everyone here been calling their congress critters and demanding single payer/public option? If not stop complaining and start calling, the Capital Hill Switchboard number is 202 224 3121.

[stillcool]

80. Thanks..

it's kind of sad that so few people are interested in contacting their own representatives, or firing off a letter to the editor. It couldn't be easier, but it's too much to ask. I guess that isn't part of 'dissent'.

[avaistheone1]

3. Good reads. Thanks for all the great links.

It is good to know so many people feel impassioned about the single-payer health care issue. We will definitely fight on.

This is one of the great fights of our time. We will overcome.

[democrat2thecore]

4. Amen, brother...

And we must get the message out that "Public Option" IS NOT single-payer. Somebody said it best when they described "public option" as Medicaid on steroids - a plan that would forever destroy hope for single-payer - as it's setup for failure. On purpose. But some can say "we brought you universal health care" and wash their hands of the issue. This is TOO IMPORTANT for politics and back scratching as usual.

I am so very disappointed. I can hardly express it.

[madfloridian]

7. That is just not true at all. Dangerous concept.

Sorry but it is.

Expanding Medicare to the unemployed would be single payer...it already is.

I am getting worried they will paint us as irrelevant and we will get nothing.

[democrat2thecore]

10. Now is the time to CHANGE the system - not PATCH it

Did you read Sirota's articles? Do you not see "public option" is a cop-out? Our biggest problem in health care is not insurance for the unemployed (as big a problem as that is) it's health care for all - paying into one system that pays the health care bills through a single - as in ONE - payer and eliminates the for-profit health insurance industry.

Thinking fighting for change rather than tinkering and patching, while legitimizing private health insurance, is a mistake is not thinking this through. Now is our time. Think on what Obama said in '03 - we need a Democratic White House, a Democratic House and Senate and THEN we'll have single-payer. Well????? We are getting ready to write into stone for a LONG time a system that maintains private health insurance. We've tried since 1948 for true National Health Care - the time is here and the "players" are ready to cement the deal with the big boys with the dollars: private health insurance companies. For Obama to throw in his lot with them and legitimize them and guarantee them they're going nowhere is......just unspeakable. Money talks. LOUDLY. But wasn't that supposed to change? We still have secrecy, parsing of words and protection of the status quo - with a bone "public option" to throw to the Obama base. There hasn't been significant change to threaten the powers that be on hardly a single issue. The Big Boys still run Washington and have the White House full of conservative economic advisers -- to insure the plutocracy.

Saddened beyond words.....

[madfloridian]

11. You will not get single payer. You might get public option.

But we will end up not getting anything.

Hey, I got mine. I have been fighting for others. So let Nader and Sirota continue the fight with their perfectionist attitudes.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. No, public option is only a cop out as regards Obama's past statements. Sirota is

a smart guy. his point is that it would be nice if Obama used this moment to expand the possibilities, instead of to limit the possibilities.

Sirota never argues that Obama can pass single payer this session, only that Obama should level about single payer instead of running away from single payer. I agree with Sirota, yet I also know that we are not going to pass single payer this session. Baucus already said so, and health care goes through his committee.

But the next Senate might, depending on what Obama does now. I think he owes it to us to help us get a real debate going instead of the fake debate we got.

[avaistheone1]

12. So you are willing to go with the "let us eat cake" solution

No thanks. I don't think we have to settle for crumbs.

[madfloridian]

13. Then you will get nothing.

Trust me, I am right. There must be some give and take on this.

I tried. Have your perfection.

[democrat2thecore]

14. Give and take?

To "give and take" means we have to maintain the private, for-profit, health insurance companies? WHY? Is it just an admission (I'm sorry...being "realistic") that they are running this show and our lawmakers are bought and paid for? No, I won't settle for that. They work for us - not the other way around. We don't acknowledge their corruption by accepting their threats of "getting nothing."

[madfloridian]

15. Go ahead and misrepresent.

We had someone fighting for us that could get things done.

I give up, not posting about it anymore.

You know you are right and you accept no compromise. I find that scary.

[avaistheone1]

17. We have done decades of the giving. Face it the health insurance

model is broken in this country. For many people the monthly premiums on their medical insurance is the same or more their mortgage payment. People are going under with medical debt. Many have no insurance or are underinsured. The current system is untenable. The public option band-aid isn't going to take care of the problem. It is too little too late.

There is no reason the American people have to settle for the few crumbs our politicians and the health insurance industry are willing to toss us.

[madfloridian]

18. Then don't settle.

Demand perfection.

Say Dean is committing fraud. Go ahead.

We will all pay if it is misrepresented like that.

[John Q. Citizen]

25. Is Dean afraid to debate whether single payer or a multi payer system with a public

option makes more sense for the country?

I don't think he is. And you shouldn't be afraid to debate it either.

Now i agree with you, and with Dean, that this Senate isn't going to pass a single payer bill this session. Yet none of us should fear a debate about what makes the most sense for the country in terms of health policy.

In fact we should all be demanding that debate, even as we are prepared to win the battle for the hearts and minds of the country, yet lose in the Senate to the wishy washy insurance company compromise of a public Option. We would be silly to limit ourselves, just to get second best. We should demand more of ourselves, even as we are aware that we might only achieve second best.


By the way, your desire to turn anybody's disagreement with your posts into them attacking Dean is weird. Just saying.

[madfloridian]

34. I signed the petition. That would make me a fraud. That angers me.

I hate people putting down others who are seeing the realistic side of things.

I think we could debate, but the single payers are not debating...they are calling the rest of us frauds and ignorant.

Not gonna work.

[John Q. Citizen]

50. The single payer advocates would just like a seat at the table instead of being quarantined.

If quarantining the single payer advocates leads to the defeat of the public option, well whose fault is that?

Open the door, let the majority view (of the American people) be heard alongside the insurance company views and the walk on egg shell views of the timid Democrats with large majorities in both houses, and lets debate the proposals on their merits, not on whether Dean endorses one view or another.

Let their be an actual debate.

There hasn't been an actual debate on competing visions for health care reform, and anyone who suggests there has been is indeed a fraud.

[John Q. Citizen]

24. You are confusing a debate with perfection. Why can't we have a debate? Is debate dangerous?

[madfloridian]

31. Implying that Dean is perpetrating a "fraud" kills discussion.

[John Q. Citizen]

35. Your implication that Dean is perfect is a joke. I'm a fraud, you are a fraud and Dean is too.

So is Sirota. Get over it.

now about a debate on Single Payer.

How do we get one?

[madfloridian]

37. We can't have a debate if you call my beliefs a fraud.

Sorry, we can't.

[karynnj]

43. I don't agree that Dean is fraud, but I will take you up on the debate on single payer

The most likely way to get there, given where we are, is with the public option that you are calling things like the "step child" and a fraud. Enacting a single payer system now is simply not in the cards. Notice that there are NO Senators co-sponsoring Sander's bill on this. The reason why the industry and the republicans are fighting so hard against the public option is that they fear it could lead to a single payer system - and their fear is warranted. They would have to make their plans as good a deal as the public option or they will gradually lose market share.

The fact is that Obama did not run on single payer - nor did HRC or Edwards. They ran on something similar to what is being worked up.

Dean incidentally is doing the right thing - he is trying to create the movement needed to insure that there will be a public option. The reality is that is possible, but NOT easy. The fact that Sirota and others are arguing for something that will not happen at the expense of an alternative that could be a back door to it is counterproductive. (Think Nader who culled off enough Democrats from Gore because (per Nader) he was not all that different than Bush.) The result is that people on the left are not using their energy to push the possible, because they are holding out for the impossible.

[John Q. Citizen]

45. Obama ran on holding an open debate regardless of ideology. in fact Sirota quotes hiin in 96

as saying a debate needs to happen in this country.

I wish he would deliver on what he said.

Obama also said that he wanted good ideas, from everywhere.

Yet the very good idea of single payer, with a long proven track record of holding down costs and giving access to all is pre-emptively off the table.

I know the Senate isn't going work for the people and pass single payer when they can get all that insurance money in their campaingn coffers. Dem or Repo, they are still humans first and foremost.

But I'd still like a debate, like Obama promised.

[karynnj]

53. I'm all in favor of the debate - what I don't like is what I responded to

the nasty demonizing of anything that is not single payer. If the goal is to get the best we can - maybe helping Dean AND demanding the debate on single payer should be done together. Two things seem certain:
- Legislation greatly expanding health insurance will happen
- It will not be single payer - you said as much

Given that, it seems that Dean is practicing politics -- sometimes defined as the art of what is possible - to push for the best viable outcome. This is good and it will be a lost opportunity if Senators become convinced that it doesn't have enough support to justify fighting for it. (The best Senators will be for it no matter what - I'm speaking of teh triangulators.)

[John Q. Citizen]

71. I have no problem at all with supporting a quality public pool and also opening up the

process to real debate and real public education on the issues involved.

I would also push for a provision in anything passed that should a state decide to provide a single payer statewide system, that they can, and their fed healthcare monies could be used by the state in their single payer pool. We must make sure private insurance isn't granted a permanent unbreakable franchise at the federal level that would thwart the will of the people in a state for a single payer system.

Just as there could be a very good quality public option that is a bridge to single payer, there can also be a very bad public option that is designed to stave off the movement toward single payer.

The same is true for a single payer system itself. There can be very good single payer systems, and very bad single payer systems. For instance, we could have a for profit private monopoly single payer system. It would be single payer, and it would be very bad.

However, I'm confident that if a single payer bill were put up side by side with a multi payer bill, and all other things being equal (minimum benefits, maximum benefits, access, etc) that almost anybody could see that the single payer system would cost less for the same coverage. Price is important because price ultimately determines access, quality and quantity of health care.


Just so there is no misunderstanding, I'm a long time supporter of Dean and think he's a pretty good guy and a straight shooter. He was my first choice in '04, I supported him for Chairman and think he did an excellent job.

Another poster was repeatedly attempting to portray anyone with a different opinion from that poster as "Calling Dean a fraud." So after I saw that straw man used repeatedly I figured I'd just call all of us (including Dean) a fraud and get it over with! :)

By the way, I often am very appreciative of that other posters work. They did a hell of a job keeping me and all of us here informed of the Florida Democratic statewide mechanisms during the 08 campaign and I learned a great deal due to their posts. I was just frustrated by the repeated straw man about 'Calling Dean a fraud." Nobody said Dean was a Fraud (until i did ;)although many were wrongly accused of that.

[TreasonousBastard]

65. You understand it-- single payer is not an option, but...

expanded health care in some form definitely is. Making changes to a system that generates several trillion dollars annually in income and wealth is not a trivial thing, and cannot be changed radically without a major disruption in services. But, evolutionary changes can be made.

Whatever we get will most likely be better than what we have, but it will not be perfect, and it will not please the "true believers" on either the left or the right. It will simply be the best that we can do at this time.

[John Q. Citizen]

23. They will only paint us as irrelevant if we roll over for whatever they tell us we can get.

because then we will be truly irrelevant.

[madfloridian]

32. Then most certainly don't roll over. Demand the perfect plan.

:shrug:

Never compromise.

:sarcasm:

[John Q. Citizen]

36. And never debate. because that would imply that Dean isn't god.

[madfloridian]

39. Stop with the Dean crap...it is way past its time. It is a childish way to argue.

He is standing for what he thinks is the right solution for the time.

Now Nader and Sirota come in calling it a false solution.

Argue all sides or not at all.

[snowdays]

46. That is what single-payer advocates are trying to do--they do not

have a seat at the table like doc dean does with this public option.

[madfloridian]

47. Start putting a barrier between single payer and public option supporters...we all lose

Start putting a barrier between single payer and public option supporters...we all lose

[snowdays]

56. Dr. Dean best not try to mix them up again. Did he do it on purpose?

[madfloridian]

67. This is how we will lose any good option for health care.

questions like that.

[snowdays]

69. Americans have already lost by the WH/Congress kicking them

off the table. Shame on them.

[TreasonousBastard]

66. A perfect plan that will radically change the way...

we pay for and deliver a couple of trillion dollars worth of healthcare annually but won't disrupt services in any way. And agreed to by a majority 435 people who hate each other and represent thousands of other interested parties who also hate each other.

Opium dreams should be that good.

[snowdays]

41. We are getting crumbs now--past time to go for the gold.

[avaistheone1]

9. ^5 democrat2thecore

[snowdays]

42. ITs a smoke screen and Dr. Dean fell for it. Shame on him.

[madfloridian]

49. Start putting a barrier between single payer and public option supporters...we all lose

Start putting a barrier between single payer and public option supporters...we all lose

[snowdays]

57. I will not settle from CRUMBS LIKE YOU SEEM TO BE DOING.

[madfloridian]

68. You are going on

my updated list of people I don't see.

I see no need to tolerate personal attacks.

[vaberella]

5. Thanks for posting links to BS. It was most helpful.

Lots of underestimation of the Pres... ~sigh~

[John Q. Citizen]

27. Can yoiu site an example of where he underestimated Obama? Or is the fact that you said it proof?

~sigh~

When you say BS, do you mean that Sirota is intentionally trying to mislead his readers?
Or do you mean that you disagree with his opinion? (I'm always amazed that i have to ask questions like this. But otherwise, how would I know?)

[vaberella]

30. I'm not Turley. So I don't think because I say it's proof.

However, I do call it the way I see it based on what I read and I call it BS based on my opinion. I find a lot of writers that are considered credible usually presume a lot. Automatically when the 2 trillion was proposed there's this almost actual belief that O has said---he's going for it. He's taking the clowns at their word but he makes no claim to that these people are forced to follow it or we would get reform. Secondly...when people keep pushing the single-payer as the one and only....~sigh~ it's annoying. Why? Because O is already proposing an idea that can get more traction and get passed more so than single payer ever will as it wouldn't during the 90s.

[madfloridian]

6. So David thinks Howard is lying? Committing fraud.

How about that?

A Democratic who helped us get back into power is being called a fraud without being named.

Sorry, but this time I do not agree with David.

[wyldwolf]

29. I'll just quote Rahm Emanuel

He was speaking about Paul Krugman but the same applies to Sirota:

"(He) has never worked the legislative process...How many bills has he passed? ... he couldn’t get his legislation."

I want universal single payer health care, too. But Mr. Sirota, explain to us how YOU would write the legislation and get it passed. I'd love to read it.

[PurityOfEssence]

83. They also never made 18 Million Dollars in under three years as an investment banker like Rahm did,

so what the fuck do Sirota and Krugman know about sucking up to big money either? I'd say that Rahm is infinitely more qualified to talk about cozying up with sickness profiteers.

Perhaps if our President hadn't gotten so much campaign money from Medicine Incorporated and if his wife hadn't made over $300K a year as an administrator for profit-doctoring he might be a bit more receptive to the idea, too.

Money talks, and dead patients tell no tales.

[wyldwolf]

84. ha ha. SO? If you have ANY evidence of wrong doing, let's see it?

Otherwise, you FAIL with your irrelevant reply.

[Jennicut]

33. We will not get single payer. Obama was never for it during the campaign.

What is so shocking about it?
We may prefer it but his plans were never to do it.

[eleny]

38. I remember him promising health care everyone could afford

I'm for single payer. That's not what he promised to work toward. But when they also promise a seat at the table for all and then refuse to seat the single payer proponents from the discussion, it's beyond disappointing.

So, no shock here. Only deep disappointment. I expected to be disappointed about some decisions but was hoping health care wouldn't be one of them.

[FrenchieCat]

48. Obama never campaigned on single payer health care.....

and Single Payer advocated do have a seat at the table, even if they may not initially have been invited.

http://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2009/03/05-0

Universal Health coverage is NOT Single Payer Health, no matter that there are some who want to confuse the two.

A public Option is what Barack Obama advocated for as part of his campaign to cover all of those who wanted to be cover with a affordable health care (that's what he campaigned on).

Thus far, Obama has been very good at delivering on his promises, but not so good at delivering on what he never promised.

Hillary Clinton wasn't advocating Single Payer Health care either during her campaign either...and neither was John Edwards.

So you may be disappointed, but that would simply because you choose to be based on your expectations of wanting something no one said you would end up with. Same goes for Sirota and the rest of those who now believe that it is time of Single Payer or bust. I would like Single Health Care coverage as well, but know better then to pin my hopes on something that just wasn't part of any campaign.

[eleny]

51. Don't lecture me on this most serious issue

I am to the left of Obama and knew it going in. I also understand the power of the people when we voice what we need. As president, Obama has an obligation to listen yet he's turning a deaf ear to the roughly 20% of Americans who want a public option. Politically, that's a dumb decision on his part.

I know that my job is, as Naomi Klein said yesterday to Charlie Rose, to move the center to the left. Obama likes to find the center and we have to move that center.

[FrenchieCat]

52. I wasn't lecturing anyone. I was discussing your comments.

[eleny]

54. Taking the public option off the table is huge mistake, politically and morally

I refuse to cut him an inch of slack no matter how he campaigned. 20% of Americans is a force he is not permitted to ignore.

[FrenchieCat]

55. the Public Option is not off the table.

IT is certainly true that advocating for Single payer may be the way to go though....
because asking for more than what one knows one end up with is not a bad approach.

I'm just saying that those who want Single Payer shouldn't be disappointed that they may not
end up with it, if they do end up with a Public option....
because again, Single payer was never something that Obama said he would do.

20% of Americans may want, but will not get Single Payer Health Care, but 100% of American will most likely get an option to a public plan however.....
that is what Barack Obama spoke of during the campaign, and that's what I'm working towards.

[snowdays]

58. Baucau said he would use the public option as a gambling chip. He has his

insurance and now plays with the health of Americans who have none. He is shameful.

[FrenchieCat]

62. delete my response due to misunderstanding the comment originally!

[eleny]

59. Where were you when Obama sided with the insurance industry?

He's made his choice, FC. *Any* public option be it single payer or having a choice between public and private insurance - is dead. Either one will kill the private insurance industry. Mark my words.

[FrenchieCat]

61. I disagree.

The Health Care reform debate has just begun,
and Obama made his choice known long ago.
Mark MY words.

[eleny]

64. I'm judging Obama by the choice he made this week

He chose to promote the fantasy that the insurance industry handed him. He isn't smooth enough, even on his best day, for me to be suckered into believing that they will actually cut costs.

[FrenchieCat]

74. BY the time all is said and done, it won't be up to them as to what they can do.

You are judging things at the beginning of the battle.

Guess that's why you didn't think that Obama was the best candidate to begin with.....
you didn't have any faith in his abilities and you still don't.

I supported him from the beginning, and know what this man is capable of,
and I believe that you are again underestimating him.

[uponit7771]

76. I agree, I don't see where Obama has changed his plan on health care...

...and going against public opinion on this issue seems like spitting in the wind.

[snowdays]

73. The WH and congress is doing its best to ignore SP.

[snowdays]

72. The ONLY day they did was the day before when the WH caved and

in invited them --after they said they would protest outside of the WH. that was at the first WH forum.
Educate yourself. Gibbs, the very next day said the SP was off the table and you know it.

They do NOT have a seat at the table.

[snowdays]

60. Baucus has said he might use the public plan as a bargaining chip for concessions by insurers.......

http://www.newsday.com/news/printedition/nation/ny-usschu1012748442may09,0,5696009.story


Schumer's Heath Care Compromise

"Plan USA" must play by the same rules as private insurers, be run separately from the federal entity overseeing the insurance market, and pay health care providers more than Medicare.- - compromise could cost more and save less, said Karen Davis of The Commonwealth Fund, but would still work.- - The final health-care bill might drop the public plan. Baucus has said he might use the public plan as a bargaining chip for concessions by insurers. Indeed, the prospect of government competition led Ignagni to offer to end higher premiums for women, older people and the ill.

[Overseas]

63. K&R to check back in later. Love the 3 questions.

The first is definitely one that I'm asking--

IF YOU COULD SAVE US $2 TRILLION by just cutting back on scheduled increases by 1.5% -- then why on earth didn't you do that ten years ago?

is how I put it.

But I like his angle -- Doesn't your offer make it clear that you have been profiteering for the past ten years ?

[Uncle Joe]

75. They're mislabeled, The "health insurance industry" profits from our illness, not our health..

So why should they be trusted to do what's best for the American Peoples's; aka the nation's health or finances?

[LWolf]

77. K & R nt

[omega minimo]

78. Why hide this away in GD: P?

:bounce:

[ProSense]

79. What move away from single-payer?

Seriously, if people want to advocate single payer, they need to do so and stop pretending that this was the starting position.

People are fighting to keep the public option so pretending singple payer is the starting point is rather delusional.

[John Q. Citizen]

81. Did you read the article? Sirota Documents Obama's 6 year move away from single payer.

He goes back to when Obama was a strong unequivocal supporter of single payer, then back to '06 when he claimed the country needed a debate involving single payer, until today when he doesn't seem to want to consider good ideas without regard to ideology, and instead is considering ideology solely as to what can be debated.


if you ingore history then you only get a tiny fraction of the picture.

[Honeycombe8]

82. Obama is not in favor of one single-payer system as his HC Reform Act.

Did you not read about his HC reform plans during the campaign? It was on his campaign website. He also discussed it in a good amount of detail at one or more of the debates, as did Hillary Clinton.

The plan he is now in favor of sounds just like the one he proposed during his campaign, which is what the voters voted for.