Detail of health care plans emerge

[SpartanDem]

WASHINGTON — Senators were meeting Thursday to consider whether the federal government should jump into the health insurance business as House Democrats began looking at big health care changes, including federal aid to help families earning up to $88,000 pay for insurance and a requirement that all must carry coverage.

A document obtained by the Associated Press shows the plan being developed by the House Energy and Commerce Committee would also require employers to offer coverage to their full-time workers, or pay a percentage of their payroll to the government.
...

Senators on the Finance Committee on Thursday weighed several designs for a public plan. They also will be given the option of having no public plan at all.

Two of the designs that senators will consider call for a plan that's like Medicare, except it would pay doctors and hospitals a little more generously. In one version, the public plan would be run directly by the government. The alternative would be to have it administered by regional middlemen under contract to the government.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-05-14-senators-health-insurance_N.htm

[ThomCat]

1. That second option, with the public plan run by middlemen under

contract to the government, let me guess, that was proposed by insurance lobbyists. They get to run the program for the government, for a fee of course. :eyes:

[ejpoeta]

17. yeah, that makes sense. then they get it both ways....

they get our money to run a 'public plan' while getting our money for the private plans. boy, why does that not surprise me.

[dflprincess]

35. The whole point is to protect health insurance profits

and campaign contributions.

[nightrain]

2. really crappy options. We need single payer.

I will NOT fork over hundreds to support health insurance corporations with greedy CEO-types.

[handmade34]

34. I'm with you

...obviously we need managers of any program thats developed ...but my money won't go to corporate CEOs.

[depakid]

3. Just watch- the Senate "Democrats" will find a way to sell everyone out

drop the public option and tell us that it's progress.

And I think we can all expect whatever comes out of this will have no effective enforcement methods for ordinary when it comes to the consumer protections they'll crow about.

[vaberella]

14. I don't think they'll risk dropping the public option but I fear they'll butcher it.

Schumer is working on that and it's unacceptable. I personally need to see Obama's plan for it.

[Liquorice]

4. I just hope it's better than Medicare. My parents recently became

eligible for Medicare, and I was shocked to find out that it doesn't cover vision or dental. I mean, come on! EVERYBODY needs regular dental visits and many people need eye glasses. Oh yeah, it also doesn't pay a dime in coverage for hearing aids... It's beyond shameful that Medicare doesn't cover these basic things.

[snowdays]

8. Around 1900, MD's gave up parts of the body-eyes, ears, teeth, feet.--they

are outside official medicine per say---under other professions. The Fed and states still maintain that distinction for the most part. We see it clearly in Medicare.

[Thothmes]

5. Govt already does that

the Militarys TRICARE program is managed by contracted firms in each TRICARE region. Don't know if any of them are insurance companies thought. Also the TRICARE mail order prescription program is managed by a contractor.

[Aragorn]

10. so is Medicare and Medicaid

and some of these contractors have in fact ripped off the taxpayers. We know because some of them got caught. They also try to act like the private ins co's and monitor doctors, hospitals, etc - but what I have seen is the crooks make a constant effort to game the system, the cronies get away with it, and the watchdogs do a lousy job, often accusing the innocent. Sometimes that happens out of cronyism.

Texas Medicaid was run by the Perot system until about 4 years ago, when they realized they were paying twice what every other state paid. The news folks took the keys and made a lot of mistakes for the first year, now do a decent job. But one gets the feeling they have minimum wage decision makers, and access to care has gone way way down without saving money. What happens when you can't find a doc? An expensive trip to the ER! And they won't tell people who their assigned primary doc is!

Medicare is contracted to one part of BCBS in Texas. The previous branch of BCBS, I am told by private auditors, got caught increasing their take several years ago. The new one (or maybe Medicare directly) sub-contracts to outside group to look for potential fraud "statistically" but those folks don't actually seem to know math. I saw a letter where 1 doc was "accused" of "possible" over-billing on new patient evals. The stats showed that his average code/bill for a new patient was actually slightly below average, but the sub-contractor had used stats totally wrong to jump to a wrong conclusion.

I'll stay brief by not outlining some of the ways I see docs and hospitals try to game the system, for now.

The present Medicare/Medicaid system has room to lose "the profit motive" too.

[vaberella]

15. That's why I don't see why the single payer people promote Medicare/Medicaid...

there's some serious problems in that system that need to be fixed and I mean serious. My other contention is the fact that we can't sue doctors....:WTF: I have serious issues with that, condisering they would be labled as federal agents.

[greymattermom]

6. part time jobs?

So all new jobs will be part time or independent contractor jobs?

[LooseWilly]

36. Aren't they all now?... That's the only sort I've held for more than a decade.

[cooolandrew]

7. It's the road to single payer is the only logical evolution once you make healthcare public.

[sandyd921]

31. Not if the public health care they come up with is crappy.

I don't feel like we can trust the Senate to come up with a decent public option. The majority of senators have been bought and paid for by the health care industry and they won't design a public option that will be any threat at all to the private insurance scammers.

[northernlights]

9. every option they describe

sux.

Companies should not be required to pay for health care. Company-paid health insurance started out as a *benefit* when they competed for employees. It never should have morphed into a legal requirement. It's a stupid system, period, guaranteed to incur waste, leave large segments of society vulnerable and creating a huge drag on the economy. Except, of course, for the economy of insurance and pharma barons, not to mention the financial industry. For them, it's a hogfest.

Companies should pay wages and either vacation/sick time or high enough wages to enable people to take reasonable time off when desired or needed.

Basic health care is a community need -- to prevent epidemics, to prevent people dying in the streets, to help society grow with strong, healthy people contributing to the community.

It should be paid for by the community with pooled resources. Basic health care -- prevention, dental care, immunization, treatment of communicable diseases, and treatment of catastrophic diseases and injuries -- should be a given toward an overall healthy community.

Education of health care providers -- which is extensive and exhaustive, and whose work is demanding and dangerous -- should also be paid for by the community that depends on them.

I didn't realize until yesterday that France pays for the education of its health care providers. Good system, imho. Their doctors are paid much less than here, but also aren't burdened from the get-go with massive loans the size of a large mortgage.

Lose the greedy middlemen and you'll cut costs without hurting the providers or receivers. Let the middlemen learn a worthy trade that provides something that actually benefits the community, and you'll have a healthier, happier community.

[scentopine]

11. Great for CEOs, Bad for America, Bad for Hope, Bad for Change

Health care is shaping up to be the next Wall Street style disaster. Insurance companies are now too big to fail. This smells like shit and isn't what we voted Obama and the tag along democratic congress to do. We need a government that works for all citizens not just corporate citizens. The last thing we need is another layer of middle men between you and your health.

Hope is now officially dead. Obama simply wasn't serious about changing anything. Can't wait for his adoring fans to chime in about how wonderful this plan is along with everything else he doesn't plan to change.

[Vinca]

12. I feel like a turkey on a platter being served up to big insurance.

[vaberella]

16. I don't know how...but whatever.

Not a damn detail has come out and you already feel like a Turkey...Lord.

[Vinca]

20. The main detail has come out: no single payer.

[vaberella]

21. You act like single payer is some sort of damn pancea...it's not.

I studied health economics and different health programs. You've got it all wrong, but keep dreaming. If I had single payer, it would need to have so many regulations that it no law would pass it.

[Vinca]

22. Well, if you're so darn smart, maybe you could explain how

it's a good thing to pay big insurance to run things. They make a profit by denying you care. End of story.

[vaberella]

30. I never claimed to be "so darn smart," but thanks for the compliment.

Actually...nothing in the article that was posted says a damn thing. This is why in one of my posts below I clearly stated there was nothing stated here that has any proof to anything. It all looks like regurgitated news that has been circulating for the past month.

Until I get some definitive information where I can read the detailed plans, and all the different ones they have to offer---I see no point in getting angry and jumping to conclusions. This is just fuel to the fire of stupidity that is running on high emotions rather than logic. The article states NOTHING...absolutely nothing. I have my concerns but I saw nothing in the article that is new or gives specifics. Schumer is still in the process of writing his plan. Obama hasn't even released the full details of his plan except the budget and I'd love the book describing the plan in detail. The pharmaceutical companies are already playing O, and he's responding in kind but not listening to their nonsense but hoping for the best. All in all he's made no deals with them.

He and Sebelius have proposed a public option and finalizing the work on it before it goes before the House and Senate. So I'm trying to figure out what you're harping on about? You have no information...and yet your upset much like the other people on this thread. There is nothing warranting this sort of reaction. This is why we don't get much of anything done---people spend their time whinging and not waiting for as much facts as possible before we can move on.

I see nothing wrong with private insurance since in Europe even if they universal or single payer, also use some sort of private insurance. I don't want them having the full say on anything or even having the biggest. However, I trust the President a bit more considering I've been following what he's saying and he hasn't deviated from pushing the same message since the campaign in regards to this issue.

Until you or anyone posts anything more substantial than the same old lines repeated for the past few months...the anxiety is just unfounded and ludicrous.

[sandyd921]

32. Where there is private insurance in Europe it's required to be non-profit

like our health insurance used to be prior to Reagan. There are no countries with systems comparable to ours in which profits are made on the backs of sick people.

[vaberella]

13. I don't get everyone's complaints. However....I need more information, although I've picked one.

Two of the designs that senators will consider call for a plan that's like Medicare, except it would pay doctors and hospitals a little more generously. In one version, the public plan would be run directly by the government.

I do not mind this one at all...and I find of the four described the only one I would tolerate since it would still lead to crowding-out. I do not want the others especially Schumers.

I do believe that people should pay some sort of co-pay to the state in order to maintain the level of supply...something like 10-15 co-pay or deductible once a month---this removes the need to use taxes which can get a few people teed off.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. So how do these religionists define a family?

Obama sees my family as some semi-human group of strangers that just live together outside the annointing of his dogma. So when they talk about families, and federal aid for families, I can see exactly how the injustice will play out.
This is a threat to the existance of thousands of families. Great injustice simply to feed the bigotry of some religious hypocrites.
Plus, I remember how outraged many here were that Hillary's plan had a mandate, and how the claimed Obama would never do that, how he claimed he'd never do that, claimed that was the big difference between him and Clinton. Guess it was not such a difference at all, now was it? More like a nuance being sold as a difference, a nuance he had no attachment to at all, just a thing he said to get elected. The religionist crowd, they call others out as less worthy of human rights, but they have no problems with lies, spin, falsehoods, slandering others to make themselves seem more religious.
So once upon a Primary, a mandate was a deal breaker, the policy of a monster, of human vermin. Now suddenly it is wonderful for all! A mandate! How brilliant! The hypocrisy of it all is stunning to me.
So. Who defines a family, the families themselves or Joshua DuBois? Will this be a futher codification of prejudice against millions of Americans?

[ramapo]

19. Where is guaranteed coverage?

I haven't seen a word about doing away with medical underwriting and little about the pre-existing conditions gotcha.

[DrToast]

23. I think the no pre-existing conditions gotcha is a given

Even the Wyden-Bennett plan does away with that. Pretty much any plan out there does.

[ramapo]

27. Underwriting too?

The pre-exisiting condition limits sometimes aren't too bad. But you first have to get the policy written and this is where companies pick and choose.

[DrToast]

28. I don't know about that. n/t

[Better Believe It]

24. So we will be forced to buy insurance from the insurance industry?

[SpartanDem]

26. Not necessarily

it looks like that some form of public option will be available.

[democrat2thecore]

25. BOTTOM LINE: Big Insurance Still In Place & Profiting From Illness

Change that not only I can't believe in, it's change that makes me sick. (No pun intended).
What a missed opportunity - and with a Democratic congress & a Democratic president.

[stillcool]

29. You thought the insurance industry?

was going to get run out of town..by the sheriff?

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Neecy]

37. just watch...

They'll end up with a requirement that 'all must carry coverage' AND the middlemen in the public option. Nice profits for the insurance industry and the middlemen who will do nothing but pick our pockets.

I have absolutely no confidence in this Congress.