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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 03:54 PM
Original message
"I guess we'd all like to aspire to civilized discussions motivated by intellectual expansion..."
"I guess we'd all like to aspire to civilized discussions motivated by intellectual expansion" sounds like something that President Barack Obama might say, might inspire us to aspire to.

It was a DUer and there may have been a big "but" coming but the trail of bread crumbs back to the reply has disappeared.

IMHO the dissension and tension surrounding Obama is based, not as much on what he has done or not done, but what our expectations of him were and are.

"Ya don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." -- Dylan

After 3 decades of Reaganism, media consolidation, corporate welfare and megamergers, outsourcing, illegal wars, mercenary housing prices, stagnant wages and prices increasing on everything EXCEPT the price of gasoline, our way of life, our way of communicating and our way of government have all been compromised.

The president who was a joke was The Great Communicator. The radio jockey who was a joke became The National Confabulator.

Rush Limbaugh might as well lead the Grand Old Parochials, as he has led them by the nose down the garden path toward the lemming departure point for those same 3 decades.

Rush and his Limbots can take a lot of credit for taking over political discourse; for making it nigh impossible; for making The Daily Show parodies of national nonsense the "real" news for younger generations. His carefully crafted Big Lie Sandwiches are so artfully composed that all the candy colored curlicue cellophane toothpicks in China can't do them justice.

We've had 8 years of unstoppable illegal behaviors by 2 unelected administrations; some form of shackled complicity from Congress; inexplainable inability to pursue accountability; while our Bill of Rights, privacy, Constitution, right to remove criminal administrations, economy, homes, educations, health and environment lay in shambles.

4296 U.S. troops deaths from Gulf War II, 4157 of those SINCE "Mission Accomplished."

Many younger Americans won't remember the split screen of Reagan's inauguration, with the Geezer on one side and the gangplank with deplaning Iran Hostages on the other. A recent similar wake up call was an American pResident standing on a battleship under a banner, wearing a codpiece and telling the television that "Major combat operations in Iraq are over" and over 4,000 more people dying with no end in sight.

That's how bad the cognitive dissonance is. We have been hornswaggled. That is the environment that this new president was elected in. He has to play the game. He had to play the game to get elected.

The two main candidates being on the campaign trail for 2 years while impeachment was "Off The Table" was a big clue about how much and what kind of change we could really hope for.

There were many hopeful ideas and images in Obama's campaign. The main one, the one that carried him, was the notion that each of us can and must be part of the process and as Gandhi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world."

We can do that. One way is to communicate with each other. Ask the right questions. Accept that our leadership and our entire system have been severely COMPROMISED. Blaming or fighting over Obama doesn't change that any more than he can change it by himself.

Our system has been compromised and our ability to communicate has also. We have the internet to bypass "mainstream" media, yet we still seem to be stuck in the antagonistic style that the Limbots infected the country with.

It's a sign of the fear and confusion and the insanity of much of it, that humor and sardonic treatments prevail. Maybe the Fool, Coyote, Court Jester, shall always be the TruthTeller.

Let's consider though, that we may be under the influence of some RushBaughContin poisoning, disseminated and ingested via the airwaves EVEN TO OUR ARMED FORCES OVERSEAS :wtf: BY THE GOVERNMENT.

We can kick the habit. We can quick ingesting the Limbot Droids on cable. We can quit acting like Bill O'Reilly.
We can screw on our



We can aspire.


"I guess we'd all like to aspire to civilized discussions motivated by intellectual expansion"
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm pleasantly surprised to see evidence of rational thought. nt
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. prejudice will always hobble you
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama SPECIFICALLY SAID Democratic activists need to be vocal and MAKE him accountable,
Edited on Mon May-18-09 04:06 PM by blm
Make him a better president. IMO, he said this because he wanted us to be loud and HEARD to give him the juice to be more progressive....unfortunately it's the neocons who get the media's microphones..... still.

I'm with Obama - demand progressive answers to our nation's problems and MAKE HIM a better president. And don't stop just because it bothers those who prefer political theater over good and HONEST government.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. So did FDR.
"I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it."
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. exactly....he knows the BEST way to buck the powersthatbe is for the goodguys to stay on TOP of them
Edited on Mon May-18-09 05:10 PM by blm
and to keep up the pressure vocally and politically. The best wall the fascist machine has is the wall of silence.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. "The best wall the fascist machine has is the wall of silence."
yer gooood :wow: :applause:
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Even worse than silence: vocal obedience.
Excellent post, very well written. K & R
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. well put
:toast:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, omega minimo.:thumbsup:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks Uncle Joe
nice to see you :toast:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Likewise, Omega
Peace to you and have a good night.:toast:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. and you as well
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
12. .
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. Recommended, and recommending this other thread today...
Very much on the same point.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5676364

Posts like these (yours an the other) make me proud to be a member of this board.

:kick:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. much obliged and thank you for the link
to H2O Man's thread. He has been posting these brilliant personal essays.

Very kind of you to say. :toast: :pals:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. We can be supportive AND demand accountability at the same time.
In fact, Obama knows that the left demanding accountability IS the best possible way to support a presidency of change and will actually make his job easier in the long run.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Exactly...
demanding accountability doesn't require one to join the RWers in their idiotic snark.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. +1
That is the distinction that seems to escape so many here, and often by choice.

People can't be that ignorant.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Perhaps not ignorant... but melodramatic?
Sure they can! Just look around.

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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. mm hmmm.
melodramatic, and almost comically self-righteous.

Usually, I don't mind too much. :P
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. How bout "reactionary"?
Edited on Tue May-19-09 05:34 PM by omega minimo
I mind when it makes rational discussion impossible......
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I have a question...
do you consider stuff like this to be rational discussion?

"Might as well just throw this campaign promise out the window" "Pathetic"
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. AFAIK
there has been a lot of confusion about reactions and a lot of reactionary behavior that causes more confusion. I might have missed something you seem to be responding to. I agree with BLM and would love to see an OP along those lines.

:hi:
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. so good you could OP off your post.
"Obama knows that the left demanding accountability IS the best possible way to support a presidency of change and will actually make his job easier in the long run."

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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-18-09 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. K&R
:kick:
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
19. I believe that the core problem is structural.

Our appetites are whetted by the success of progressive successes elsewhere, like single payer health care.


All of those successes, however, were achieved in parlimentary democracies that concentrate executive and legislative power into a single coalition. It allows for big changes.


Out system not only divides executive and legislative (and has the court to referee) but it further divides the legislative into two bodies and gives the least democratically elected one the burden of super majority.


Its a wonder that anything gets changed at all.


So, even though we may share consensus on a topic, single payer for example, we will be divided between those who say push it through and don't be flacid and those that say you have to build a broader consensus to actually get anything passed. Obviously Obama is in the latter group. Many of us who grew up in the former group have now migrated to a more pragmatic stance.


There will always be this tension in the progressive community, until we change to a parlimentary system, which we all know is completely impossible in the US, which remains in many ways, very conservative.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. It does seem impossible...
but is it really?

I know when I talk about electoral reform... I don't mean just getting publicly financed elections, I mean getting a parliamentary system, too.

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Beyond impossible. You would have to have a constituional convention
and get 3/4 of the states to approve. Idaho would have as much power as California. For that reason they cannot even get rid of the electoral college, let alone go to a true parlimentary system.


Then you have to ask yourself do you really want it? It would give us more power when we are in control but it would also give the otherside more power. What would it have been like for Cheney/Bush to be in complete control of both the Executive/Legislative branches.


While parlimentary systems do work very well in smaller more homogenous populations it is a big question whether or not it would work on a government our size. For example would it work if there are no countries in Europe and only a single parliment for the whole continent? Probably not.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yeah... I guess even though Canada is geographically large...
they have a much smaller population... but they do have the Quebec bloc to worry about so it's not exactly homogenous. And Britain is hardly homogenous either, but they are much smaller.


Is there some other way we could break the hold on power that the two parties have? The LWV stopped hosting debates because they were fed up with the way the two parties were scripting things. How can we change the rules so that the two parties can't shut everyone else out the way they do?
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. We are "divided" by the Big Money that controls the system we have
"we will be divided between those who say push it through and don't be flacid and those that say you have to build a broader consensus to actually get anything passed. Obviously Obama is in the latter group. Many of us who grew up in the former group have now migrated to a more pragmatic stance."
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. big money didn't control the elections. The fact is that the American system
is designed to disperse power and make significant change difficult. The only reason that we were able to get FDR's changes through with such 'radical' progams like social security is that the entire economic system collapsed and for once in American history power was concentrated into a single executive, he controlled the legislative process, atleast for a while.

On the radio today is a story about the Senate not passing the expenditure for Obama to close Gitmo. Just another example how splintered American political power is and how much more difficult it is to actually get anything done. "Big Money" obviously has an impact, but it is the divided system that is a persistent problem. I don't think "Big Money" could really care about the President's plan about Gitmo and yet the President has to jump over hurdles to get this very basic plan passed.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-19-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. How can you believe "big money didn't control the elections"?
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. I'm sorry that it's too late for me to recommend this, om.
I absolutely agree with you. Thank you for taking the time to put these thoughts into words to share with us.

:thumbsup:

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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Thank you IHAD
:hug:
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