IRAN'S BUTTERFLY BALLOT?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

Great Slideshow here at BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8097051.stm

A Florida Style Nightmare Ahead?
Iran's 2009 election may be tarnished by the equivalent of a butterfly ballot,
it could be a case of Bush V Gore and the Supremes, or it could be shades of Franken VS Coleman Iranian style.
Iranians faced long lines to cast votes on confusing ballots that were not truly secret.
There is no better cover for election fraud than confusion.

The AP Top News at 1:58 a.m. EDT

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran's Interior Ministry claimed hard-line incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was heading for a surprise landslide victory Saturday in the country's stormy presidential elections. But his pro-reform rival countered that he was the clear victor and accused authorities of voter fraud. The dispute sharply boosted tensions and raised fears of a standoff after an intense monthlong race between the combative president and his main challenger, Mir Hossein Mousavi. A large turnout at the polls had boosted victory hopes for Mousavi, who is backed by a growing youth-oriented movement.

Andrew Sullivan predicts Iran's Bush V Gore and some other colorful words:

A Clusterfuck In Iran

First Read checks in on the Iranian elections:

The Associated Press is reporting that the state media in Iran has declared President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the winner in that country's presidential election. But Reuters writes that Ahmadinejad's top challenger, Mir Hossein Mousavi, has called himself the "definite winner." Shades of Bush vs. Gore in 2000? We'll have more when we see it.


Joe Klein is worried about the very confusing ballots:

The candidates are listed by name and by number...and also by code. You vote by writing down the candidate's name and then his...what? Number...or code? No one is quite sure. The leading reformer, Mir-Hussein Moussavi, has the number 4 and the code 777. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has the number 1 and the code 444. So the question arises: If you vote for Moussavi and list his number as 4...have you actually voted for Ahmadinejad? And why on earth have they devised such a complicated ballot in the first place?

Wikipedia tells how Iran's Presidential Elections are run:

Election process
Further information: President of Iran

The President is elected by direct vote. Candidates need to win a majority (50% plus one vote) to become President.
Iran has a two-round system: if none of the candidates wins the majority in the first round, the two top candidates from the first round will go to a second round, and whoever wins the majority of votes in the second round is elected President.

The first round was held on 12 June 2009, and the second round, if necessary, will be held one week later, on 19 June 2009. All Iranian citizens of age 18 and up are eligible to vote. Both the Iranian Center for Statistics and the Iranian Ministry of the Interior have stated that there are around 46.2 million eligible voters.

How voters cast their ballot in Iran VIDEO

From the video, the balloting process described:
Women and men have different lines to join in order to vote. They do not get in the same line.
Voters present ID, receive a ballot and an identifying number is put on that ballot.
Then the voter puts his/her fingerprint on the ballot.
Next, the voter marks the ballot (est 4"X6" in size) by pen, and puts the ballot into a plastic storage tub.
The tub is secured by tamper resistant plastic ties.

The above process is not a secret ballot!
How easy it would be to weed out ballots by certain blocks of voters, or by individual.
How easy to intimidate voters when their ballot is marked by their fingerprint.

[LittleBlue]

1. Uh... it's really hard to believe that he won by over 2-1 using confusing ballots

In Florida, it was a close race.

This election was anything but close. Nothing short of widespread vote miscounting (we're talking miscounting 5 million ballots) would have changed this outcome.

Looks like Ahmadinejad blew away his opponent.

Ahmadinejad's lead (~10 million) is greater than his opponent's total vote count.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. Agreed, it does miss the point, but widespread fraud would not surprise me

Moussavi had a lot of support and this was supposed to be close. I wouldn't have been surprised if Ahmadinejad had won say 55% to 45% and Moussavi's support was just over-exaggerated somewhat. But the fact that Ahmadinejad won with 60%+ of the vote gives me reason to suspect that there was foul play.

If Ahmadinejad really did have the support of the people then the government has nothing to worry about. If Moussavi really didn't have the numbers then not enough people will take to the streets to seriously threaten them.

[leftstreet]

2. How many votes did Buchanan get?

[MADem]

3. I think the dinner jacket's thugs stuffed the ballot boxes. I think there was cheating.

[Alamuti Lotus]

4. Let the conspiracy theories begin..

[jbnow]

7. Yes let them because there was a conspiracy. Record crowds turning out

to maintain an unpopular status quo? Not just eked out a victory but a HUGE victory>

Iran has a young population (Median Age in Iran: 25.8 years male: 25.6 years female: 26 years compared to USA Median Age: 36.6 years male: 35.3 years female: 37.9 years)
They dislike the way Ahmadinejad has deepened their country’s international isolation so much and his very right wing ways and some of the crazier things he's said

Newsweek had reported his approval rating dropping to under 35% last year. Now if we were talking all tough and threatening him maybe the vote to stand by him would make sense...though still not to the levels they say he won by

'Unprecedented' turnout was reported and high turnout was seen as a bad sign for Ahmadinejad...let alone the kind of record numbers they saw.
They are not cheating wisely. 70% of this vote?

That aside...the AP is talking about "voter fraud" when they mean election fraud...

and I was envious when I read about the 'hard fought one month campaign'. One month is not long enough but ours is crazy long.

[LittleBlue]

8. That doesn't prove anything.

Bush won in this country despite being a superdouche. Hell, he won before that despite more people voting for the other guy.

You can't run around and scream "election fraud!" with no hard evidence.

[BeFree]

20. True

And you can't run around and scream that the votes were counted correctly without hard evidence.

In America, we have hard evidence of votes not being counted correctly.
But no evidence that the votes were.
All we have is the word of the elected that they won fairly.
And being that the elected do everything they can to get elected and they make the election laws, no one trusts that they want the votes counted correctly.

Can you say Diebold?

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. PhD in Iranian history and politics, I suppose?

Or are you some know-nothing jackass who believes everything the Western press tells you?

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

9. "Thousands take to streets to protest Iran poll"

Over in latest breaking news.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3921006

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

12. Canada 'deeply concerned' about Iran vote

Canada 'deeply concerned' about Iran vote
13/06/2009 17:08 NIAGARA FALLS, Canada, June 13 (AFP)
Canada 'deeply concerned' about Iran vote
Canadian Foreign Minister Lawrence Cannon said Saturday he was "deeply concerned" about reports of voting irregularities in Iran's presidential elections.

"Canada is deeply concerned by reports of voting irregularities in the Iranian election. We're troubled by reports of intimidation, of opposition candidate offices, by security forces," Cannon told reporters, adding that Canadian embassy officials in Tehran were closely monitoring the situation.

http://www.africasia.com/services/news/newsitem.php?area=mideast&item=090613170856.08yydnvt.php

[Doremus]

21. Biden has doubts about Iran's presidential vote

Vice President Joe Biden says he has doubts about whether Iran's presidential election was free and fair, as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad claims from his landslide victory.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8470313

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

18. rioting at night and fires continued to burn

AP Top News at 5:00 p.m. EDT June 13, 2009

23 minutes ago

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Supporters of the main election challenger to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad clashed with police and set up barricades of burning tires Saturday as authorities claimed the hard-line president was re-elected in a landslide. The rival candidate said the vote was tainted by widespread fraud and his followers responded with the most serious unrest in the capital in a decade. By nightfall, cell phone service appeared to have been cut in the capital Tehran. And Ahmadinejad, in a nationally televised victory speech, accused the foreign media of coverage that harms the Iranian people. There was more rioting at night and fires continued to burn on the streets of Tehran.



http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g8-DEMtAE9q4i4ySQ0eV_qZefmRQD98Q17LO0

[L. Coyote]

19. Ralph Nader threw the election to Akmed's Dinner Jacket.

:rofl:

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. In-a-godda-a-da-vita

[masuki bance]

6. I don't think the Iranians give a F*** what we think of the ballots. nt

[clear eye]

10. From what I read, they didn't even bother counting the ballots.

Most areas simply turned in pre-approved numbers before there was time to do an actual count. Obama is also on record doubting the veracity of the results.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

11. White House keeps close watch on Iran campaign -"including reports of irregularities."

White House keeps close watch on Iran campaign
35 minutes ago June 13, 2009

WASHINGTON (AP) — The White House says it is monitoring Iran's presidential election results, including reports of voter fraud.

White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said Saturday the Obama administration is keeping close watch on the election process, "including reports of irregularities."

He said the White House was impressed "by the vigorous debate and enthusiasm that this election generated, particularly among young Iranians."

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (ah-muh-DEE'-neh-zhahd) has claimed victory. But reform candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi (meer hoh-SAYN' moo-SAH'-vee) alleges widespread election fraud.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jJSopMrG7PjVf8PsWuBL33fQ5d3wD98PU1B00

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. Citation?

:shrug:

[clear eye]

15. Just go to Google news.

That's where I found it.

On edit: I just doublechecked (1st time I just read headline & not source), and I see that it is only Fox News claiming that "Administration sources" told an "analyst" who told Fox News, that they found the results not credible. Whoops. Maybe it happenend that way and maybe they just made it up. SOS Clinton has been going around saying on the record that she hopes the results "reflect the will of the people" which does indicate skepticism.

Making things more confusing, international diplomacy dictates that you don't say that the sitting leader of another country isn't legitimate unless you want to sever all ties, and perhaps go to war, or foment armed revolt, or go to war by proxy, arming a rival nation. In this context, Clinton's statement is a pretty strong show of skepticism.

The story that said the results were prefabricated isn't there anymore. Sorry, but I promise I didn't make it up.

[clear eye]

17. Just found another source of the same story,

from the NYTimes correspondent in Iran, Bill Keller. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/14/world/middleeast/14memo.html?_r=1

"One version (from somebody’s brother who supposedly knew someone inside) had it that vote counters simply were ordered to doctor the numbers: 'Make that 1,000 for Ahmadinejad a 3,000.'"

"One man who worked in the Ministry of Interior, which carried out the vote count, said the government had been preparing its fraud for weeks, purging anyone of doubtful loyalty and importing pliable staff members from around the country."