Question on Obama's promise not to raise any middle class taxes

[AlexanderProgressive]

If Congress decides to charge a tax to some or all of middle class Americans in order to cover the costs of health care reform, will it be fair to slap Obama with a broken promise if he does not veto the bill?
Or can it be argued that it was not his idea and therefore he didn't break any promise?

[Thrill]

1. Its not about whether its fair or not. If he doesn't keep the promise

republicans are going to pound him with it mid term elections and his re-election.

He needs to stand the fuck up and just say no damn taxes on the middle class. And thats it. Veto it. There shouldn't be a tax on the middle class when there is plenty of room to tax the rich. The, "I didn't want to but Congress made me do it" crap doesn't work election time. Ask Bush 41

[Lasher]

2. If Obama signs a bill that includes a federal income tax increase on families making $250K or less,

Then he broke his promise. It's just that simple.

[vaberella]

23. But it's not targeting them. It was stated several times---WhiteHouse even stated this.

There are Repubs who are pushing for it, but there has been nothing to say Obama will agree to that.

[Lasher]

30. I was reacting to a 'what if' question.

I didn't say there is any indication so far that Obama would renege on this particular promise.

[vaberella]

38. Oh, understood. n/t

[bigwillq]

3. The promise was already broken.

To some middle class people.

[quakerboy]

4. Who cares whether its a broken promise?

Its Democrats shooting themselves in the foot.

[WaveRunner]

5. We can just add it to the list

Broken Promises:

1. Close Guantanamo Bay
2. Get us out of Iraq
3. Allow 5 days for public comment before signing a bill
4. Repeal don't ask Don't Tell
5. Repeal defense of Marriage act
6. Windfall tax for oil companies
7. Repeal Bush Tax cuts

That is just off the top of my head

[Autumn]

6. You forgot transparency n/t

Edited to add welcome to DU

[ficus1]

13. And ponies

I distinctly recall being promised a pony in the first 5 months.

[MiniMe]

29. It's not really a pony

[FrenchieCat]

8. Did he say that he would do those things

in the first 5 months in office?

If not, then he didn't break those promises, and your post wrong.
If so, please provide the link where he states when during his presidency he would do these things.

Thanks!

[TheKentuckian]

7. The win by far outweighs the hit, at least on that note.

but I imagine the issue will kind of be skirted enough to not take the brunt of the attack. Like the draconian tobacco tax increase, Loose tobacco had about a 2,500 percent increase. That's pretty extreme and amounts to a net increase for smokers earning under 250k. I'm not bent on it nor feel lied to but a 2,500X increase on anything is robbery. Robbery for a good fucking cause but robbery none the less. This will be structured in such a way to give plausible denial.

Any substantive health care reform is going to be a real battle, too tough a fight to worry about this kind of stuff.
Bush 41 didn't do invest in the people when he had to raise taxes, at a certain point you have to depend on the investment to pay off. I believe if you actually use the people's money to benefit them in tangible ways they aren't nearly as resentful of government spending or paying their taxes.

I'm worried about herding the votes to do much of anything beyond some better regulation and some tax breaks/vouchers. "Fiscal Conservatives" (aka corporate cronies) are grossly over-represented in Congress, much more so than even the batshit "Social Conservatives" (aka theocrats and brown shirts). Looking at getting these votes is much more complex than counting (D's) and (R'S), while the Republicans may be pretty much uniform we aren't cut from the same cloth. It doesn't help that the one's that need to be leaned on are among the least susceptible. You can't effectively primary them because if run to their left you can't win the generals and if you run to the right you can't run in the party. Most aren't fresh faces that depend heavily on the national party either.

There are a million problems and the OP's is valid but I would guess it needs to take a number and wait it's turn.

[doc03]

9. If they end up taxing our company health insurance

benefits you're damn right it's a promise broken. That was Obama's main criticism on McCain's Plan. It's not just breaking a promise it's a f-----g lie.

[Honeycombe8]

11. So what's YOUR plan to pay for the new healthcare reform act? Get out your pencil...

and come up with a way to make $1 Trillion dollars.

[sandnsea]

16. Repeal Bush tax cuts, tax sugar, chips, fast food,

cigarettes, booze, condoms, etc etc;
cut defense,
scale down the Iraq war faster,

lots of ways.

[vaberella]

20. +1...I totally agree. n/t

[Honeycombe8]

42. That's still a far way from $1 Trillion Dollars. STill waiting for an answer.

$1 Trillion Dollars. Lot of money. What was stated above may get us, what, $1 Billion?

Got a loooooong way to go to reach $1 Trillion.

[JeffR]

24. Well said!

:fistbump:

[Honeycombe8]

43. I don't think you understand how much $1 Trillion Dollars is. Still waiting for

a laundry list of ways to get $1 Trillion Dollars. So far, what was itemized is far from $1 Trillion Dollars.

Just trying to get you to see how much the plan will cost, and what a problem paying for it is.

(BTW...the tax cuts are set to self-repeal, unless voted to stay in. So they don't need to be repealed.)

[NatBurner]

37. u had me up until 'condoms'

*sad face*

[Honeycombe8]

44. You DO know that repealing Bush tax cuts will raise taxes on the middle class, too?

YOu know that, right?

The wealthy got bigger tax cuts under Bush. Far bigger. But so did the middle class. That includes me. And you, if you're middle class.

My income taxes would go up over $1,000 a year, when the Bush cuts expire (they don't have to be repealed...they are self-expiring, unless voted to stay in).

So YOUR answer is to raise taxes on the middle class, the same as everyone else's? I guess you see the problem, now. Tax on candy and soda? That is taxing mainly the poor and middle class (altho it's discretionary spending....still, it's the poor and middle class mainly who buy that).

[doc03]

32. They are going to tax

the benefits of those of us who have employer provided health insurance. Joe the Plumber was exactly right about Obama's "spreading the wealth around". I have worked Union jobs for over 40 years and in that time sacrificed and went on 3 strikes all totaled for over a year to get those benefits. Now they want to tax my benefits to pay for someone else, in my opinion Obama's Plan is DOA and deserves to be. The money just isn't there, this President is spending us into bankruptcy. I don't really blame him I think that was the Republican strategy in the fist place put us so far in the hole to make social programs impossible to sustain.

[Honeycombe8]

45. Obama is NOT "spending us into bankruptcy." We were ALREADY in a

historical deficit before Obama came onto the scene.

When the economy is on the brink of a depression, there is no choice but to spend (also called a stimulus plan). No choice.

It's not definite that the health care benefits will be taxed. I hope that doesn't happen.

I was just trying to get everyone to see, though, how expensive the new healthcare plan will be, and how problematic it is to get it paid for. Everyone wants this and wants that...but no one wants to pay for it.

Free healthcare? Ain't nothin' free. It's gonna cost us. But I think a new healthcare system is worth it.

Unlike you, though, I don't especially begrudge having to pay a bit more on something so that we all can be provided BASIC health care. Any one of us may need to use it. Even if we don't, it will be nice to know it's there, as a fall back, in case you or I get laid off.

[sandnsea]

14. Not the main criticism, but it's disgusting yes

I keep telling people this is what the Democrats just did in Oregon to extend our health coverage. Dem Governor, State Senate & House, all Dem. And we have subsidized insurance with taxes on health premiums, and Oregon is considered a leader on health care reform. Don't be surprised this is what Democrats propose in DC.

[vaberella]

21. Actually weren't they planning on taxing those with those corporate taxes.

That doesn't go after small business or factory workers---basically middle class Americans.

[Honeycombe8]

10. I never believe the "no new taxes" campaign promises. We all know they HAVE to say that, right?

Esp. last year, when the right's mantra was "they will raise our taxes they will raise our taxes they will raise our taxes."

I believe Hillary promised the same thing.

Candidates always say that, right? Well, the ones who win do. I remember one governor candidate a few years back who took a novel approach..."I'm going to be honest with the people. We are in a budget fix. We will have to raise taxes, so I'll just tell you that up front." He was slaughtered in the race.

I knew taxes would be going up, one way or another, because of the huge deficit from the last 8 years, and the impending implode of Social Security and Medicare. It's all coming home to roost.

[vaberella]

19. It's no new taxes on income and or payroll.

He never made promises on anything else, unless I'm wrong.

[AlexanderProgressive]

41. It's "any taxes"

He said any taxes.

If I say, "I don't like white people; black people; asian people; any people, I am saying that I like no one.

""I can make a firm pledge. Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

[liberalpragmatist]

12. Honestly, I'd be fine with a small VAT

That's how they finance health care in Europe.

Ideally, we'd get a small VAT to finance a single-payer system. That's not going to happen, unfortunately, but while I'm all in favor in increasing higher marginal rates, there's only so much revenue you can wring out of the top 2% of the population. If we were getting a single-payer or heavily subsidized system, then a small tax would probably leave most people with more cash afterwards instead of having to deal with premiums and copays.

[Zavulon]

18. I wouldn't.

First of all, the VAT wouldn't stay small. Second, premiums and co-pays would keep people honest in terms of using our resources.

[vaberella]

22. Most people aren't cool with it---but they want single payer. I don't get it. n/t

[Zavulon]

15. It would be very fair to slap him with a broken promise.

His quote was as follows:

"In order to save our children from a future of debt, we will also end the tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans. But let me be perfectly clear, because I know you’ll hear the same old claims that rolling back these tax breaks means a massive tax increase on the American people: if your family earns less than $250,000 a year, you will not see your taxes increased a single dime. I repeat: not one single dime.

Arguing that it isn't his idea to raise taxes on the middle class if he signs an increase into law would be intellectually bankrupt.

I'm below $250K, and if my taxes go up Obama will still get my vote in 2012, but not my time or donations. I will root for him to win because I know his opponent will be a turd, but if he loses after a tax increase and a broken promise I won't be able to say he didn't deserve it. George H.W. Bush tried the "But...but...Congress forced me" argument and it didn't fly; in fact, that was mostly what turned me into a Democrat from a Republican in the first place.

[doc03]

33. One of the first things he did was

put a huge tax on tobacco. Who did it hurt? The poorer less educated people make up the biggest percentage of smokers. That tax also cost small business a ton of money.

[bighart]

34. so in essence the promise is already broken if you care to

see it that way.

[doc03]

36. I guess so and what really hurts is all

the Republicans can now say we told you so. Same thing when Clinton ran for President the Republicans made the whole campaign about family values and character. So what happens, Clinton goes out and finds Monica Lewinsky and then we had to hear Rush Limbaugh and the others say we told you so. What do you say now when your Republican friends say we told you he was going to raise your taxes and run up deficits and you wouldn't listen. Don't get me wrong the Republicans do the same thing they tell you what you want to hear then after they are elected they do whatever they want. No wander about 1/2 the people don't even bother to vote anymore.

[vaberella]

17. It seems that Obama plans on taxing the rich a bit more for health care. Not the MC.

Anyway with single payer the middle class will be taxed to oblivion.

[NYC_SKP]

25. He's gonna catch hell no matter what. The question is if people WANT better health care...

...do they REALLY think it's fair to get it for FREE???

I take his no tax increases for the middle class, tax breaks instead, pretty loosely and to mean income tax.

We always, always, always have had changes in the details, what is and what is taxed and what is and is not deductible.

So if the middle tax gets better health care, there will be some taxes.

And I'm alright with it, I expect it.

Others will love calling him on it.

:patriot:

[leftstreet]

26. Why not? We're getting war 'for free'

You do realize that's a rightwing talking point, yes?

When we collectively decide how to use our tax dollars, it's not about getting something 'for free.'

:eyes:

[NYC_SKP]

27. Fuck your "right wing talking point", that's the most annoying comeback.

meh.

Yes, IF we could stop the war and put all the money into health, dandy.

Shall we wait until that happens then?

I'll take a little bit higher taxes if it offsets what I'm paying now.

If my bottom line at the end of the year is even or better, I'm fine with a little tax increase.

My point is really about all the hate for Obama that'll come down the pike if taxing health benefits comes about.

I don't really care if it's a right wing point or not.

[leftstreet]

28. Think of all the bombs we could buy if we kicked seniors off medicare

I'm glad that you're 'fine with a little tax increase.'

There are millions of Americans who'd be 'fine' with a little job, or a little debt relief, or a little single payer healthcare.

:eyes:

[AngryAmish]

31. It would be a tax on the middle class

No way to get around it.

[avaistheone1]

35. The big picture and the bottomline is the middle class would save big money with health

care reform regardless if taxes go up. For example if single-payer national insurance is started. it would cost about 3% more in taxes. Just figure out what you would save on all the medical services that would cover hospitalizations, prescriptions, vision and dental and it is a huge savings over conventional insurance plus the out pocket expenses we currently pay. The three percent tax is a pittance.

So Obama would not be breaking a promise IMO.

[Dr Fate]

39. The middle class could save even more if the top 1% foots the bill.

This seemed to be a theme of his campaign- that the top percenters were not paying their fair share...

If it's such a "pittance", then let the millionares, billionares & corporations pay for it. Shouldnt be any big deal for them, it being a "pittance" and all.

[avaistheone1]

40. Yes. Look at the kind of taxes the wealthy paid during the era of the greatest generation..

Seriously the wealthy pay nearly nothing now by comparison.