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Paul Krugman: Healthcare Showdown or (The "centrist" Dems are the problem)

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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 06:31 AM
Original message
Paul Krugman: Healthcare Showdown or (The "centrist" Dems are the problem)
Edited on Mon Jun-22-09 06:50 AM by flpoljunkie
(Emphasis mine.)
June 22, 2009

Health Care Showdown

By PAUL KRUGMAN

America’s political scene has changed immensely since the last time a Democratic president tried to reform health care. So has the health care picture: with costs soaring and insurance dwindling, nobody can now say with a straight face that the U.S. health care system is O.K. And if surveys like the New York Times/CBS News poll released last weekend are any indication, voters are ready for major change.

The question now is whether we will nonetheless fail to get that change, because a handful of Democratic senators are still determined to party like it’s 1993.

And yes, I mean Democratic senators. The Republicans, with a few possible exceptions, have decided to do all they can to make the Obama administration a failure. Their role in the health care debate is purely that of spoilers who keep shouting the old slogans — Government-run health care! Socialism! Europe! — hoping that someone still cares.

The polls suggest that hardly anyone does. Voters, it seems, strongly favor a universal guarantee of coverage, and they mostly accept the idea that higher taxes may be needed to achieve that guarantee. What’s more, they overwhelmingly favor precisely the feature of Democratic plans that Republicans denounce most fiercely as “socialized medicine” — the creation of a public health insurance option that competes with private insurers.

Or to put it another way, in effect voters support the health care plan jointly released by three House committees last week, which relies on a combination of subsidies and regulation to achieve universal coverage, and introduces a public plan to compete with insurers and hold down costs.

Yet it remains all too possible that health care reform will fail, as it has so many times before.

I’m not that worried about the issue of costs. Yes, the Congressional Budget Office’s preliminary cost estimates for Senate plans were higher than expected, and caused considerable consternation last week. But the fundamental fact is that we can afford universal health insurance — even those high estimates were less than the $1.8 trillion cost of the Bush tax cuts. Furthermore, Democratic leaders know that they have to pass a health care bill for the sake of their own survival. One way or another, the numbers will be brought in line.

The real risk is that health care reform will be undermined by “centrist” Democratic senators who either prevent the passage of a bill or insist on watering down key elements of reform. I use scare quotes around “centrist,” by the way, because if the center means the position held by most Americans, the self-proclaimed centrists are in fact way out in right field.

What the balking Democrats seem most determined to do is to kill the public option, either by eliminating it or by carrying out a bait-and-switch, replacing a true public option with something meaningless. For the record, neither regional health cooperatives nor state-level public plans, both of which have been proposed as alternatives, would have the financial stability and bargaining power needed to bring down health care costs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/22/opinion/22krugman.html
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
1. Finally you post an article detailing exactly what I've been talking about for ages now!
This not Obama not leading, it's not about the Republican's obstruction zeal---if we fail; we fail because of the Democratic Senators.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree with your assessment. However, Obama must lead or the 'centrists' will prevail.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. The Dem Senators vote on the bill. Obama can't really force their hand w/o some sort of blackmail.
Edited on Mon Jun-22-09 06:59 AM by vaberella
You noticed that the Republican's hands couldn't be forced. What makes you think Obama could force the Dems?
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. What makes you think we can pass real healthcare reform without Obama leading?
He needs our help, of course, but he must lead.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. That's the thing. Obama is already leading. Something I've argued ad nauseum.
Most people don't think he's leading because it doesn't fit what they want. But he's most definitely leading and has been doing it since the primaries. He's never moved from him primary objective in regards to health care. You seem to act like he has or never had an objective. He stood his ground and is supporting what works and pushing it along.


The Greenbay Town Hall meeting was one of a few aspects showing Obama's leadership. You can ignore it if you want.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. LBJ cracked skulls to get Medicare passed in the 60's
so Obama, if need be, can do the same. These ConservaDems are worse than Repukes. The sooner Obama deals with them by standing up for a real public option, the better health care reform will be.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Lord...another LBJ comparison.
Edited on Mon Jun-22-09 07:42 AM by vaberella
Considering I wasn't alive then and I don't know the full details and circumstances to the situation I won't bother commenting except to say that we're living in a different time period and I'm a bit fed up with people using past situations as precedences. Unless every detail has been met with both houses owned by the Dems. With a private health insurance sector so strong they might rival AIG in this nation, and with Dems who are intentionally voting against our President because they feel they need to be "voice of reason"...I'd hold off the comparisons. And as such we need to regard this situation as something in and of it self and not waste our times comparing Presidents.

They all react differently with the deck at hand.
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WyLoochka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. C'mon - history is instructive
Why are you making a plea to operate from a position of ignorance? This long fight for universal health care is not "something in and of itself" and the use of knowledge of history, in debate, is most certainly not a "waste of time."

Paul Begala to Meghan McCain 6/19/09: "I wasn't alive during the French Revolution, but I know about it."
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
21. If President Obama publicly or even in a visit to the Democratic caucus
said things like Krugman did here, it might move a sufficient number to pass it.

The last paragraph is likely the key - they see themselves as a possible future power center. Could it be that Bayh sees himself as a potential 2016 President restoring the Centrist wing of the party? If so, he needs to get the message that doing anything other than HELPING pass this will make him as likely to ever win primaries as Lieberman was in 2004. An overwhelming percent of Americans want the public option - and that is even more so in the party. This is NOT an issue where a Democrat in any state has to be a profile in courage to support it.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. What the hell is "Obama must lead" even suppose to mean?
Seriously, I am seeing people say this, but do you even know what you mean by it? He has talked to Senators. He has met with the AMA. He has been very clear that he wants to see a public option. He bought TV time and is running his own fucking TV special on the topic. What the hell else is he suppose to do that fits within the ethics and boundaries a President is SUPPOSE to operate within.
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kjackson227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I agree with you...
President Obama has done just about EVERYTHING he can do to explain exactly why we need this reform, now it's time for us to stop arm-chair quaterbacking and get our voices out there.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Obama must lead and most likely will need to strong arm the ConservaDems
into supporting a viable public option because the Dem leadership in the Senate is incapable of leading. Pelosi has backed the Progressive Dems in the House, who will not support a watered down version of a public option. In contrast Harry "Weak Tea" Reid is allowing the ConservaDems in the Senate to do what the Repukes can't do -- destroy a viable public option so that Obama's health care reform will be just another Corporate Welfare program for the health insurance corporations.
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phleshdef Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. I don't see how he can "strongarm" anyone into anything.
I guess he could threaten a veto, but thats the only thing I can see him doing that might carry any real weight. Other than that, the only other options would probably involve alienating the Senate from his agendas for the next 3.5 years. I want a public option as much as the rest of us, but I don't want Obama turning into Jimmy Carter 2.0.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #24
28. They want Obama to be Bush when it suits them.
I've come to realize what they mean. Threatening a veto doesn't even hurt them, it hurts us and it basically kills what Obama has been pushing since the primaries----that's not really twisting the arm. These people don't have a clue what they're talking about phleshdef. I've come to terms with that.
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JamesA1102 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. We all must do our part.
We should not just leave it to the President alone. We all need to call our Senators and Representatives in Congress and voice our support for a public plan.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
3. "Centrist" My Ass
Edited on Mon Jun-22-09 06:58 AM by MannyGoldstein
Bill Maher is right - we have two parties
- The Center-Right Party
- The Crazy Party

We have to get some more actual Democrats in Congress and the Presidency. The DLC and triangulation are a metastatic cancer on the body politic.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I agree that they're not Centrist. I just see them as infiltrators.
They run as Dems because it could get them elected, however they fail in the long run.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Unfortunately we have to try to influence the Congress we have, not the Congress we want
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I agree....and say...."let's get to it".....and contact cowardly Blue Dog Democrats.
Their in boxes need to be overflowing with messages about how us Yellow Dog Democrats will infiltrate their states and do all we can to see th at they loose their seats.
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kjackson227 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yes, it's the "Conservadems" or "Conservative" Democrats...
who are causing all the problems (not the centrists like Krugman stated). Ed Schultz AND Bill Press are going to uncover these back-stabbing, bought-and-paid-for weasels SOON, and I can't wait to hear their list (according to Press, there's at least ten of them). I know Bayh is one, and Landrum in Louisiana?
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Ninga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. Yep, you are right about Bayh and Landrum, also Loserman I think too. We need to
start a fire so we can hold those Blue Dog Dems feet to the fire....until they say yes to health care.
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. DINOS and traitors. If they fuck this up they can start looking for another job.
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. I doubt it very much.
Remember many of these clowns helped enact DOMA/DADT/ & shot down HRC's Universal health care plan in the 90s.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
12. And now, for a brief message from the rabble:
Edited on Mon Jun-22-09 07:37 AM by seafan
Just who ARE these people?



Thanks for posting this great Krugman piece, flpoljunkie.

ConservaDems need to be surgically removed from the whole process of representing the people. They have betrayed us too many times.


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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Thank you for the link to the Rachel Maddow video re Evan Bayh and the 'Conservadems'
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. This is why we need Campaign Finance and Voting Reform. nt
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Yet Durbin's bill, S.752, Fair Election Now Act, is going nowhere. Has 3 co-sponsors.
Edited on Mon Jun-22-09 09:22 AM by flpoljunkie
And, Bernie Sanders is not one of them. I wonder why.

http://thomas.loc.gov

S.752
Title: A bill to reform the financing of Senate elections, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Sen Durbin, Richard (introduced 3/31/2009) Cosponsors (3)

Related Bills: H.R.1826

Latest Major Action: 3/31/2009 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Rules and Administration.
COSPONSORS(3), ALPHABETICAL : (Sort: by date)

Sen Dodd, Christopher J. - 5/14/2009
Sen Gillibrand, Kirsten E. - 5/18/2009
Sen Specter, Arlen - 3/31/2009


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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
26. Estimates lower than the Bush tax cuts.
That needs to be mentioned in every conversation.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
29. We only need 51 votes to pass a public option without using reconciliation.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
30. Krugman: "centrist Democratic senators are in fact way out in right field"

As Krugman points out:

"The real risk is that health care reform will be undermined by “centrist” Democratic senators who either prevent the passage of a bill or insist on watering down key elements of reform. I use scare quotes around “centrist,” by the way, because if the center means the position held by most Americans, the self-proclaimed centrists are in fact way out in right field."

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