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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:12 AM
Original message
NORTH KOREA Threatens To Wipe Out The U.S. "Once And For All"
HYUNG-JIN KIM | June 24, 2009 09:29 AM EST

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea threatened Wednesday to wipe the United States off the map as Washington and its allies watched for signs the regime will launch a series of missiles in the coming days.

Off China's coast, a U.S. destroyer was tailing a North Korean ship suspected of transporting illicit weapons to Myanmar in what could be the first test of U.N. sanctions passed to punish the nation for an underground nuclear test last month.

The Kang Nam left the North Korean port of Nampo a week ago with the USS John S. McCain close behind. The ship, accused of transporting banned goods in the past, is believed bound for Myanmar, according to South Korean and U.S. officials.

The new U.N. Security Council resolution requires member states to seek permission to inspect suspicious cargo. North Korea has said it would consider interception a declaration of war and on Wednesday accused the U.S. of seeking to provoke another Korean War.

More here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/north-korea-threatens-to-_3_n_220001.html

______________________________
Wow, just wow.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ugggghhh. NoKo is just so friggin insane you can't count on them to act rationally
in any way. What.a.headache.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I know, they are completely insane!
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. North Korea's leadership is hardly insane...
Provocative, absolutely. Insane, no. Saber rattling is the only way to get US politicians' attention and convince them to bargain with them. If they said "Hey President Obama, we have these nukes but we'll give them up in exchange for light water reactors and normalized relations", Obama would simply ignore them or be willing to give them substantially less than they want.

But as soon as they start threatening to blow up Hawaii or other such nonsense the US media picks up on it and Obama has no choice but to address them.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Pres Obama wouldn't ignore them..
I think the NK are freakin' insane.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Obama probably wouldn't, but Bush tried to
No President can literally ignore North Korea. If they did their political opposition would hammer them for it. Six party talks were a way of ignoring the problem while pretending to do something. The thing is that the more tantrums North Korea threw and the more saber rattling they did, the more the level heads in the state department prevailed and the more the US began to soften its stance. They eventually had bilateral agreements without actually calling them that, because to do so would've been to admit that Kerry was right. Anyways, it was all too little too late.

Obama campaigned on bilateral talks and I'm sure that he prefers them. But he also has a lot of other priorities and he may not exactly be inclined to give away the store in those bilateral talks to get North Korea to disarm. Exploding a nuclear device and threatening to blow things up forces him to address North Korea sooner and puts more pressure on him to actually solve the problem. Kidnapping journalists raises the stakes even more.

They know that there's a snowball's chance in hell that the US will attack North Korea because they have a second strike capability of doing serious damage to South Korea and Japan and sanctions aren't particularly effective against a country that is the closest real world case of complete autarky. They are especially ineffective when the Chinese don't really back them up.

North Korea wants a deal and they think that their behavior will increase their bargaining terms, especially given Obama's preference for ridding the world of nukes. Thus far Obama has signaled back that he isn't interested in a deal which is expected because he can't be seen as capitulating to North Korea or rewarding their bad behavior. But when the "crisis" dies down we will see how Obama acts toward North Korea. That will be the true test of whether they have misjudged Obama or not.
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Well put Hippo Tron
Obama is going to continue to take the road of punishment until North Korea is willing to come to the table again and negociate in good faith. One of the problems is they have proven they can't be trusted.

I am in Seoul and living less then 60 KM from the DMZ, it is sometimes surreal knowing what is going on between the two countries.

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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. It certainly will be interesting to see what Obama does
The irony of "crisis" situations is that the parties often wind up with better relations after the crisis than they had before. The 1994 Agreed Framework came after a crisis, of course that was completely gutted by the GOP congress.

I think Obama is fully willing to make concessions and to reconstruct an agreement similar to the agreed framework. But I think first he wants to demonstrate to North Korea that he's serious about them holding up their end of the bargain as well and part of that means cutting out this crisis/response behavior.

IMO I think the main reason the North Koreans tested a nuke in April is that Obama went three whole months without really addressing North Korea in a very public way. The White House was of course dealing with Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel and not to mention our own crumbling economy and thus North Korea felt that things were moving too slowly. A crisis forces the National Security Advisor, the Secretary of State, the President, Congress, and the media to actually address North Korea and thus policy moves a lot faster. When there is no crisis the only people who care about North Korea on a day-to-day basis is the East Asia desk at the state department, their counterparts at the National Security Council, some think tanks, and one or two congressional subcommittees. Thus in non-crisis mode policy moves at a snail's pace and the North Koreans see the only way to speed that up is to induce a crisis.
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davidpdx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Yes, that's true, I think they were looking for attention
But I think this is also coupled with the fact that former President Roh had committed suicide also set them off. The North was much more favorable toward Roh's government, then the present government one. Unfortunately there has been a change of administrations in both South Korea and the US in the last year and a half or so, which doesn't make it easy to keep the negotiations going.
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Dummies.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. The last time Hawaii was sky bombed it didn't work out so good
It kinda pissed us off if I recall.
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SunsetDreams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. yes, not a good move at all
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
5. That would be fairly difficult. nt
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8 track mind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #5
18. yeah really.... Good luck with that one..... n/t
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MikeNearMcChord Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
7. Don't worry we have a plan!
America, Fuck Yeah!!!
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. Funny!!!
Let's see, we have Hillary and maybe the guy to her right (our left) could possible pass for Obama. Rahm would definitely be the guy with the biggest gun and goggles yelling "Let's blow up the mother fu**ers to kingdom come."

But who are the other two?

:7
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Grown2Hate Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
20. Biden to "Obama's" right... not sure on the last... Valerie Jarret? : ) NT
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. I thought of Valerie too due to the dark hair.
Great minds think alike....

:D
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Raine1967 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. SUsan Rice our UN ambassador!
And nxt to her -- Joe Biden
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Good choices.
Edited on Wed Jun-24-09 12:25 PM by Beacool
We have 2 for Biden, 1 for Jarret and 1 for Rice.

:D
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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
8. North Korea is extremely unstable right now because its undergoing a transition of leadership
The son is going to take over. He is possibly worse then the father. Wonderful, isn't it?
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RandomThoughts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. If there is a internal change of power going on,
Some of their talk may be for internal public consumption.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
10. ...AND THEN I WILL RULE THE WORLD!!!!!!
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. I'm So Ronery
I`m so ronery
So ronery
So ronery and sadry arone

There`s no one
Just me onry
Sitting on my rittle throne
I work very hard and make up great prans
But nobody ristens, no one understands
Seems that no one takes me serirousry

And so I`m ronery
A little ronery
Poor rittre me

There`s nobody
I can rerate to
Feer rike a bird in a cage
It`s kinda sihry
But not rearry
Because it`s fihring my body with rage

I work rearry hard to stay nice and fit
But none of the women seem to give a shit
When I rure the world maybe they`rr notice me
But untir then I`rr just be ronery
Rittre ronery, poor rittre me
I`m so ronery
I`m so ronery
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. .. unless you pay ONE MILLION DOLLARS! bwahahahaha
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. PROPAGANDA???? Read Michael Parenti's latest column for SOME SANITY
http://www.michaelparenti.org/

W/permission

North Korea: "Sanity" at the Brink
(posted in 2009) - http://www.michaelparenti.org/NorthKorea.html

Nations that chart a self-defining course, seeking to use their land, labor, natural resources, and markets as they see fit, free from the smothering embrace of the US corporate global order, frequently become a target of defamation. Their leaders often have their moral sanity called into question by US officials and US media, as has been the case at one time or another with Castro, Noriega, Ortega, Qaddafi, Aristide, Milosevic, Saddam Hussein, Hugo Chavez, and others.
So it comes as no surprise that the rulers of the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (DPRK or North Korea) have been routinely described as mentally unbalanced by our policymakers and pundits. Senior Defense Department officials refer to the DPRK as a country “not of this planet,” led by “dysfunctional” autocrats. One government official, quoted in the New York Times, wondered aloud “if they are really totally crazy.” The New Yorker magazine called them “balmy,” and late-night TV host David Letterman got into the act by labeling Kim Jong-il a “madman maniac.”

To be sure, there are things about the DPRK that one might wonder about, including its dynastic leadership system, its highly dictatorial one-party rule, and the chaos that seems implanted in the heart of its “planned” economy.

But in its much advertised effort to become a nuclear power, North Korea is actually displaying more sanity than first meets the eye. The Pyongyang leadership seems to know something about US global policy that our own policymakers and pundits have overlooked. In a word, the United States has never attacked or invaded any nation that has a nuclear arsenal.

The countries directly battered by US military actions in recent decades (Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, then again Iraq), along with numerous other states that have been threatened at one time or another for being “anti-American” or “anti-West” (Iran, Cuba, South Yemen, Venezuela, Syria, North Korea, and others) have one thing in common: not one of them has wielded a nuclear deterrence—until now.

Let us provide a little background. Put aside the entire Korean War (1950-53) in which US aerial power destroyed most of the DPRK’s infrastructure and tens of thousands of its civilians. Consider more recent events. In the jingoist tide that followed the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, President George W. Bush claimed the right to initiate any military action against any “terrorist” nation, organization, or individual of his choosing. Such a claim to arbitrary power–in violation of international law, the UN charter, and the US Constitution–transformed the president into something of an absolute monarch who could exercise life and death power over any quarter of the Earth. Needless to say, numerous nations--the DPRK among them—were considerably discomforted by the US president’s elevation to King of the Planet.

It was only in 2008 that President Bush finally removed North Korea from a list of states that allegedly sponsor terrorism. But there remains another more devilishly disquieting hit list that Pyongyang recalls. In December 2001, two months after 9/11, Vice President Dick Cheney referred chillingly to “forty or fifty countries” that might need military disciplining. A month later in his 2002 State of the Union message, President Bush pruned the list down to three especially dangerous culprits: Iraq, Iran, and North Korea, who, he said, composed an “axis of evil.”

It was a curious lumping together of three nations that had little in common. In Iraq the leadership was secular, in Iran it was a near Islamic theocracy. And far from being allies, the two countries were serious enemies. Meanwhile the DPRK, had no historical, cultural, or geographical links to either Iraq or Iran. But it could witness what was happening.

The first to get hit was Iraq, nation #1 on the short list of accused evil doers. Before the Gulf War of 1990-91 and the subsequent decade of sanctions, Iraq had the highest standard of living in the Middle East. But years of war, sanctions, and occupation reduced the country to shambles, its infrastructure shattered and much of its population drenched in blood and misery.

Were it not that Iraq has proven to be such a costly venture, the United States long ago would have been moving against Iran, #2 on the axis-of-evil hit list. As we might expect, Iranian president Mahmoud Amadinijad has been diagnosed in the US media as “dangerously unstable.” The Pentagon has announced that thousands of key sites in Iran have been mapped and targeted for aerial attack. All sorts of threats have been directed against Tehran for having pursued an enriched uranium program–which every nation in the world has a right to do. And on a recent Sunday TV program, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton warned that the United States might undertake a "first strike" against Iran to prevent its nuclear weapons development.

Rather than passively await its fate sitting in Washington’s crosshairs, nation #3 on the US hit list is trying to pack a deterrence. The DPRK’s attempt at self-defense is characterized in US official circles and US media as wild aggression. Secretary Clinton warned that the United States would not be “blackmailed by North Korea.” Defense Secretary Robert Gates fulminated, “We will not stand idly by as North Korea builds the capability to wreak destruction on any target in Asia–or on us.” The DPRK’s nuclear program, Gates warns, is a “harbinger of a dark future.”

President Obama condemned North Korea’s “belligerent provocative behavior” as posing a “grave threat.” In June 2009, the UN Security Council unanimously passed a US-sponsored resolution ratcheting up the financial, trade, and military sanctions against the DPRK, a nation already hard hit by sanctions. In response to the Security Council’s action, Kim Jong il’s government announced it would no longer “even think about giving up its nuclear weapons” and would enlarge its efforts to produce more of them.

In his earlier Cairo speech Obama stated, “No single nation should pick and choose which nation holds nuclear weapons.” But that is exactly what the United States is trying to do in regard to a benighted North Korea--and Iran. Physicist and political writer Manuel Garcia, Jr., observes that Washington’s policy “is to encourage other nations to abide by the terms of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty--and renounce nuclear weapons--while exempting itself.” Others must disarm so that Washington may more easily rule over them, Garcia concludes.

US leaders still refuse to give any guarantee that they will not try to topple Pyongyang’s communist government. There is talk of putting the DPRK back on the list of state sponsors of terrorism, though Secretary Clinton admits that evidence is wanting to support such a designation.

From its lonely and precarious perch the North cannot help feeling vulnerable. Consider the intimidating military threat it faces. The DPRK’s outdated and ill-equipped army is no match for the conventional forces of the United States, South Korea, and Japan. The United States maintains a large attack base in South Korea. As Paul Sack reminds us in a recent correspondence to the New York Times, at least once a year the US military conducts joint exercises with South Korean forces, practicing a land invasion of the DPRK. The US Air Force maintains a “nuclear umbrella” over South Korea with nuclear arsenals in Okinawa, Guam, and Hawaii. Japan not only says it can produce nuclear bombs within a year, it seems increasingly willing to do so. And the newly installed leadership in South Korea is showing itself to be anything but friendly toward Pyongyang.

The DPRK’s nuclear arsenal is a two-edged sword. It can deter attack or invite attack. It may cause US officials to think twice before cinching a tighter knot around the North, or it may cause them to move aggressively toward a confrontation that no one really wants.

After years of encirclement and repeated rebuffs from Washington, years of threat, isolation, and demonization, the Pyongyang leaders are convinced that the best way to resist superpower attack and domination is by developing a nuclear arsenal. It does not really sound so crazy. As already mentioned, the United States does not invade countries that are armed with long-range nuclear missiles (at least not thus far).

Having been pushed to the brink for so long, the North Koreans are now taking a gamble, upping the ante, pursuing an arguably “sane” deterrence policy in the otherwise insane world configured by an overweening and voracious empire.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I think deterrence is more a factor with Iran than with North Korea
North Korea does certainly have to have some fear of being attacked but they already have some deterrence capabilities with missiles pointed as US allies in Japan and South Korea. Furthermore, it is well known that both China and South Korea have a vested interest in North Korea's regime not collapsing because they really don't want the refugees. That is a big deterrent to US attack as well.

I think that if the price were right, North Korea would be willing to give up their nukes. Clinton tried in '94 but the Republicans refused to pay for it because they are still fighting the cold war and didn't want to legitimize a "commie" regime.
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GivePeaceAchance Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
14. What on earth is N. Korea's problem. It seems so unnecessary. Will they just calm down.
Edited on Wed Jun-24-09 10:45 AM by GivePeaceAchance
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
16. I know karate.... and judo too....
Yeah...and the fish was..... this...... big......

:crazy:

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bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
19. lets see we have how many nukes 20,000 vs. there WHAT!!!
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masuki bance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. wmd math only works on the sane. nt
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Dr_Willie_Feelgood Donating Member (129 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Unfortunately, it only takes ONE nuke...
...exploded high in the atmosphere to cripple our power grid for months, even years, with an electromagnetic pulse.

We would find ourselves technologically thrust back into the 19th Century. No effective way to transport our food as the fuel in the tanks would be unavailable except by hand pumping. No way to power the pumps for our water supplies. No communications. No access to bank accounts.

Between the potential damage of a CME (coronal mass ejection) from the sun and the damage of an EMP, we are at FAR greater risk than any of us can imagine.

We need to get busy hardening our power grid, as well as developing local power systems (solar, wind, etc). And we need to make sure there is emergency power for our hospitals, water systems, and transport fuel providers.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #22
34. As bad as it would be for us, it would be much worse for North Korea.
Or the pile of ash formerly known as North Korea.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. The great thing about nukes. You only need one.
:sarcasm: and you can miss by a mile :rofl:
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Phoonzang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-24-09 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. Oh noes. I'm terrified.
Edited on Wed Jun-24-09 12:49 PM by Phoonzang
Maybe they'll unleash that giant soldier we've been hearing about for so long.

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,716177,00.jpg
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-25-09 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
35. Blah blah blah - nuke 'em
:D
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