Stimulus Not Working? Hold Your Horses!

[babylonsister]

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/coonsey/2009/07/stimulus-not-working-hold-your.php?ref=recdc

Stimulus Not Working? Hold Your Horses!
July 8, 2009, 9:28PM

snip//

My point is, anybody that has ever experienced a conversion or make over at their company or work place knows that it can take months and even years to get the job done. My current work place started a conversion in 2004 and finally finished it in 2008. That's how long it took to plan for, budget for, and execute in segments.

Americans need to have patience. I know that's easy to say when you have a job but try and use some common sense in your judgments about the way this administration has handled itself so far. How long does it take you to plan and budget for a new home? The Obama administration is doing just that. Planning and implementing a new America.

Personally, I think it is the media that is once again playing into the GOP's hands by believing it's been, "long enough" and that the administration's plans "aren't working".

The massive amount of mess this administration was left with, is by itself, reason enough to give the administration's plans -- more time.

President Obama said from the very beginning of this bill,

"The stimulus package was a huge victory for Obama less than one month into his presidency. But he struck a sober tone and lowered expectations for an immediate turnaround in the severe recession that is well into its second year.

"None of this will be easy," he said. "The road to recovery will not be straight. We will make progress, and there may be some slippage along the way."

Still, he declared, "We have begun the essential work of keeping the American dream alive in our time."

The Bush administration had 8 years with 4 tax cuts to get it right and still ended up with the worst recession since the Great Depression. President Obama's been in office 6 months.

So, for those of you complaining already --- Hold Your Horses!

[MoJoWorkin]

1. I totally agree! K & R

Also, not much has been spent yet. The bulk of stimulus money is to go out in 2010.

I want to tear my hair out when they keep harping about it not working, when polls taken right after Stimulus was passed said that the American public realized that it would take a couple of years for us to get back on our feet, at least. Now the media thinks 6 months is it---because they want to tear Obama down. That is all.

[dkf]

4. "the bulk of stimululs money is to go out in 2010"

Exactly why this stimulus package is a failure. I don't understand why all the predictions of a dire situation resulted in a plan that takes so damned long to go out.

Did Nancy Pelosi KNOW it would work this way or did the Obama administration take too long to get its act together? I'm pissed that we have budgeted money that was supposed to help fix our economy but hardly anything has happened so far.

10% IS NOT SATISFACTORY.

[babylonsister]

7. Have you considered how long it takes to advertise contracts,

seek bids, and then award them? This is all done after pinpointing what needs to be fixed. It doesn't happen in a day, week, or month, especially with the government. That is, unless you want to create a bunch of Halliburtons and award no-bid contracts, and I for one don't want to go there.

[dkf]

13. Isn't that the point of a shovel ready project?

If we didn't have enough of those, we should have planned other things.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

42. um, who is saying that the stimulus isn't working?

the GOP? what a surprise!

[MoJoWorkin]

29. I understood it to be that way from the beginning.

I believe 2010 was when they expected things would start turning around.

The Recovery and Reinvestment Act was signed into law on February 17. That is almost 5 months ago. Obama told us time and time again that it would not be quick and that it would take time, and there would be mistakes along the way. I don't know where you have been.


How can anyone think that such a large undertaking could be in full effect in 5 months, is beyond me. Or that it is already a failure.

Polls taken back then showed that the American public knew it wouldn't be quick, and were giving Obama a couple of years to get us back on track. The media was astonished at the time, that people were saying this. I guess they forgot, already, and are pushing the panic button, along with you.

[dkf]

31. Yup, it was poorly planned indeed.

Well then, we can't blame anyone but our party then.

I always hated this stimulus package. I really envy China theirs.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

11. 6 months seems to be enough for some people to evaluate his entire Presidency

So, I guess the corporate media is content to use the six month marker as a measuring stick for his economic policies? :eyes:
It seems like almost the same thing that happened with Clinton's Deficit Reduction Act in 1993 is replaying itself (at least in the corporate media and among the Repukes). Of course, this time, we DID get three GOP votes whereas in 1993 we didn't get a SINGLE GOP vote- and I think the ones whom voted for Obama's plan were already there? Although, I suppose, since they're moderates, they don't really count, right? And, of course, the corporate media also seems to be playing into the Repuke spin about us having "60 votes" in the US Senate and making it out to seem as though that means that everything bad that happens or doesn't happen is now all Obama's fault, as well as the Dems in the US Senate.
:banghead:
I just hope that all this corporate media- and Repuke-induced hand-wringing over whether or not the stimulus is *working* is not enough to fool a bunch of "indies" people (again) into voting the Repukes back into the majority in Congress, particularly since over the past 8+ years we've experienced just about all of the massive deregulation and tax cuts (that we couldn't afford) and are stuck in a ginormous mess as a result- not that the corporate media would care to remind us of THAT inconvenient truth!
:scared:

[Avalux]

2. I was thinking this very thing last night; became angry about it.

No one in the Obama Administration and no economists said the stimulus package would be a quick fix and the economy would magically recover in 6 months. Obama has been in office for 5 months and is tasked with undoing 8 years of damage by Bushco.

The drum-banging is ridiculous. As we're seeing though, the Pukes and their minions are using the fact that Americans are dumb and suffer from collective ADHD to their advantage.

We have a long haul ahead of us, we knew this - even got scared for awhile. But, as usual, everyone wants something done NOW. It's not that easy and no one said it would be.

[girl gone mad]

37. The problem is that many experts told the administration..

the stimulus was too weak and would be ineffective. Critics like Krugman were bashed mercilessly for raising this valid and ultimately accurate point. It was more important to the administration to appease Republicans than to pass something with a better chance of success.

[Avalux]

38. That's a good point, they also said a second stimulus would be needed.

Buffet has come out today re-iterating need for second.

[old mark]

3. The "ineffective stimulus" is Republican bullshit.....it was not dumped into the

economy at one time, it was designed to start working over the next few months. It's just more lies by the GOP to people who don't know enough about what it happening, including many Dems, obviously.
It really won't show much effect till late in '10, or even later.

mark

[dkf]

6. Well if its not planned to have much effect until 2010 then its working

perfectly because its not doing much now.

Don't you realize what a lame defense that is?

[hugo_from_TN]

34. A stimulus plan that doesn't take effect for a year is ineffective!

There were a lot of folks pointing that out when it was debated (including me). We needed a stimulus plan that did most of its work this year.

[mwb970]

40. This reminds me of the debate over whether the "surge" worked in Iraq! /nt

[scheming daemons]

5. Hold your horses, and you'll get your ponies!

;-)


(I agree with your OP)

[seabeckind]

20. I want a job, not some pony.

You're not paying attention. All I want is some opportunity...I can take it from there. And I don't have the money to open my own shop to do a cottage industry.

How about some standards at the infrastructure level? Like in cell phone technology? Like in electric vehicles? Like in computers?

My PC is very old. It has a number of components that can be reused. Have you looked at what it takes to do a motherboard/processor upgrade? I don't want to have to learn to be a fucking EE to do the job myself.

[scheming daemons]

22. I emphathize... keep plugging.... we'll dig out of the Bush Recession

My dad was exactly where you are in 1982 during Reagan's recession.


It *WILL* get better, and an opportunity WILL come.

[seabeckind]

26. I was where your dad was during the Reagan recession.

The difference then was that we still had an industrial base. Maybe we'd lost some of the textiles but we still had heavy industry. We still had autos, durables.

Steel was being fought with the corporations trying to kill what was left of the tariffs. Thanks to Reagan we lost that one.

There weren't a lot of european cars -- the yuppies hadn't arrived yet to tell us that if we didn't have a beemer we were just a commoner. The japanese cars were still rusting thru the hood.

Our corporations were still OUR corporations and our "human resources" department was still personnel.

But hey, that's the price of this here global economy. Hw much did it really cost?

[mkultra]

24. are you saying an upgrade is hard?

because they seem pretty damn easy to me.

[seabeckind]

So which one of the 40 choices did you make?

And why?

[mkultra]

30. for an upgrade, it doesnt really matter

Just pick a combo that you like. If you don't know the difference, then you probably don't have a reason to care.

[seabeckind]

33. Hey, thanks for the advice

And BTW, how's that PT Cruiser working out for you? :)

Seriously, I'm trying to upgrade to something which will carry me forward for the next 10 years or so. And it does matter to me.

--on edit -- I want to know the difference.

[mkultra]

36. well, i own a toyota not a pt cruiser

And it runs great. No break downs in 160K miles.

Anything new will work for you. It really doesn't matter. New equipment will become obsolete in under 5 years anyway.

If you want to know the difference, do some research. PC components are standardized so the selection process is pretty simple.

[Jennicut]

8. Heck, half the people here believe it and the Rethugs already won on the message war

We were lucky we got one stimulus and the size that it was. Just look at the lovely Senate to see how impossible it is to get a liberal agenda through. Many Dems there should just be Rethugs.

[Oregone]

9. The stimulus doesn't need to begin working to judge its insufficient size

It was designed for an economy that would PEAK at 9% unemployment in 2010 WITHOUT a stimulus, and merely hang BELOW 8% unemployment WITH a stimulus. The stimulus was designed with these conditions in mind.

Before it even starts working, we are at 9.5% unemployment instead of 8%. There is a gap of lacking stimulus, and in the middle lie suffering and unemployed people that Democrats supposedly care about.

I understand suffering people are just "pet" issues and asking for a scaled stimulus response is like asking for a pony. But whatever. A corrective adjustment to the funds would take nearly 1 year to have a significant impact, and thats a long time to suffer.

[redqueen]

10. K&R ... this is *must read* stuff.

This is an excellent example of how the M$M manipulates perceptions.

[masuki bance]

12. So, no judgment on it's effectiveness for 4 years?

Convenient.

[dkf]

14. Exactly.

[tridim]

15. No, just no final judgement after only 4 months.

Especially considering a 4 month recovery was never promised.

[Jennicut]

18. No, 1 to 2 years, not 6 months

[Oregone]

21. Wow, we can't make corrective adjustments based on factual numbers until 1 to 2 years

Which will take another year to kick in. Why don't you volunteer to call the suffering people and tell them "FUCK OFF! NO MORE STIMULUS FOR YOU! 3 YEARS!"


You do realize they built the old stimulus for an economy that would peak at 9% unemployment in 2010 without a stimulus? It is not too early to see we are 1.5% points over where they predicted we would be right NOW, and that there is a gap in the stimulus funds.

[Jennicut]

25. I know many here want another stimulus...but how would that get passed? With the Congress we have

now? We have too many Conservadems worried about the deficit to care.
And the stimulus money is not spent out until 2010...how can you judge something that is not spent out fully yet?
Fine if you want to judge it in 6 months...claim its a total failure but tell me how you would get Congress to pass another one? Or pass one bigger back in January to begin with? It was some of our Dems that were balking back then...our lovely friend Baucus as usual.

[Oregone]

41. That is no excuse for not even *trying* to do the right thing

And if it doesn't pass, those who stand in the way will face reckoning when election comes, from the suffering masses. The real danger is in not even trying anything at all

[LiberalEsto]

16. I'll hold mine when the mortgage company does

along with the electric company, the gas company, the water company, the phone company, the grocery store, the car loan company, etc. When and if they decide to hold THEIR horses, I'll hold mine and stop worrying about being unemployed since last October.

[seabeckind]

17. Fact of stimulus was a good idea, direction was stupid

The fuzz from the pom-poms is making me sneeze. Has little to do with Obama, has little to do with congress.

The problem is that we need JOBS in this country. Most of the stimulus money I've seen is going to fixing roads and "transit" infrastructure. What, so we can get to Walmart to buy more imported stuff easier?

What about that refrigerator factory down the road sitting on land that has been devalued to the point where it's worth hardly anything? You know, the one with the "For Lease" sign out front that the corporation keeps there so it'll stay on their books for tax writeoff purposes.

How about some REAL jobs? You know, like the ones that built our energy infrastructure in the 30's? The one we're now selling to a foreign equity firm?

Some of the stimulus money in my country went to rebuilding a bridge that was knocked down in a flash flood 3 years ago. We've done without it for 3 years. The 40 or 50 families down that way were a little inconvenienced and had to go an extra 5 miles. Now the bridge is opening. Yay!

What about that job tomorrow? We don't need more money thrown at the problem...we need to fix the attitude that created the problem.

And our fearless leaders -- ALL of them -- aren't working on the problem. How about some eminent domain to take an empty factory back and putting people back to work. How about some true fucking patriotism.

[Jennicut]

19. Our infrastructure has been failing a long time and it was one of Obama's

campaign promises. I have no problem with infrastructure spending.

[seabeckind]

23. So where is this rural communications backbone?

Hel, I'd be happy for one in the suburbs so I don't have to pay the cable company a gazillion dollars.

Ain't seen no yellow hard hats on my neighborhood. Have seen some guys filling potholes, though.

[Uzybone]

27. since the hard hats aren't working in your neighbourhood they must not be working huh?

ok.

As for the rural communications backbone, do you have any idea how long it takes to plan and install broadband lines? especially in rural areas? This isn't just click your heels 2ce and everything is in place.

[seabeckind]

28. I understand communications architecture

That was what I did.

But usually it started with a plan and a paper that outlined the plan and how we would proceed so that everyone could comment and get on board. I'm not asking for some guy to start pulling cables. I just want to see the paper.

I keep getting these emails from Biden and Obama asking me for more money. Maybe I will send them a few bucks but it's going to take more thatn LaHood saying the direction they plan to go. I want to see a step that way.

I don't want them to tell me we can't do highspeed rail cause raygun gave away all the right of ways when I see that great big wide median on I90.

[Cha]

32. Rec'd~ I see we have a new immediate Rec'd

system..as well as an "Unrec'd".

[ItNerd4life]

35. Less than 5% of money has been used so far

You are so correct!!!

[indimuse]

39. KNR!

Great post and point. Thanks. :)

[redqueen]

43. Interesting rec/unrec count.

:kick: