Why aren't the "Birthers" immediately challenged with Obama's Mother?

[RollWithIt]

I can't believe this issue has been left to linger in their sick and twisted minds.

A child of a United States of America citizen is AUTOMATICALLY a US citizen.

It does not matter if he was born in Hawaii. He was of course born in Hawaii, but really that is irrelevant.

It doesn't matter where the person is born. If one of the parents is a US citizen, the child is a US Citizen. Period. End of story. No debate. Doesn't matter.

I'm not hearing any of these birthers talk about his mother. Wonder why?

[Gman]

1. I believe they say that

his mother did not become a citizen or was not a citizen long enough to bestow citizenship on Barrack due to the law at the time.

It's a convoluted argument that you really don't hear a lot about. Check out FR. They've got all this crap organized and in one place there.

[abluelady]

4. I Don't Think That Is the Issue

I think that a child born to an American mother in a foreign country is automatically an American if the birth is registered with the American embassy.

[Common Sense Party]

6. Yes, maybe that was it. Something about how much time the mom

lived in the states...as an adult???? I can't remember what the birther nutter said, but it was something along those lines. Whatever the explanation, the law had supposedly changed since then.

[Historic NY]

22. Has nothing to do with it. If your born American and stay here 1 day or 100 yrs...

your free to travel the globe at your choosing..your an American. why are the children of US serviceman born abroad, schooled abroad still considered US citizens even if the serviceman marries a foreigner. Why? :think:

[Stephanie]

7. Impossible- she was born on an Army base in Kansas

How can they possibly argue that she was not a U.S. citizen? God they are tiresome.

Us: "The sky is blue."
Them: "Prove it!"

[slampoet]

47. And these assholes won't believe in spectrograms that prove the sky is blue either.

[Hieronymus]

37. Obama's mother was a native born citizen of the US.

[marshall]

72. The argument was that she wasn't old enough to bestow citizenship on a foreign born child

The law at the time was 21 years. Ann was a few years younger.

[Leo The Cleo]

75. Blacks aren't citizens

It is a widely understood fact that blacks aren't American. No matter what a black person is foreigner. I think you folks just don't get it. His name could be Robert Shaw and he could have been born in Kansas, but he wouldn't be American. Blacks have the distinction of not actually being on American soil, even though they may have been born and raised here. Blacks actually walk in and are born in an invisible force field which separates them from American soil. It actually means that when a black is in America he or she is actually in a magnetic plain which separates them from the US. They are temporarily suspended in space. Scientists (and I mean evolutionary Anthropologists) have been studying this for years.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

84. I think that's pretty much the nub of their argument (nt)

[Common Sense Party]

2. I tried to engage one about this. He kept saying something

about the law in 1961 being different than it is today. At that time, both parents had to be US citizens if the child was born outside the U.S....something like that.

No, it didn't make any sense to me, either.

[lindisfarne]

10. See the wikipedia link below. Obama isn't affected & Obama was born in the US. But there is

a bit of confusion as to who qualifies for Pres. (at least in some people's minds, and it's never been decided in the courts).

[gauguin57]

46. The law WAS different in 1961. If Obama had been born outside the country to Ann Dunham ..

... his citizenship could have been questioned. Because the law in effect until 1986 said that, if you were born outside the country to a U.S. citizen and a foreigner, the U.S. citizen parent had to have lived in the U.S. as a citizen for at least five years after the age of 16 (weird law, I know ... but that's how it was written). And since Ann Dunham was only 18 when Barack was born, she didn't meet the criterion under that law.

[Gman]

62. That is it.

exactly. I couldn't remember the specifics.

[Ian David]

3. Crap. Accidentally hit unrec. Meant to hit rec. n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

60. Gave a rec for ya.

:hi:

[lob1]

5. Good point. I believe I heard that McCain was born in

Panama where his dad was stationed at the time. Didn't hear from the birthers about him.

[PBS Poll-435]

21. I believe that McCain was born on a base in the Panama Canal Zone

US Territory.

[Dappleganger]

29. Actually, he wasn't.

The hospital on base was either overcrowded or undergoing renovations (can't remember which), so his mother had to go to a local Panamanian hospital. I know that Congress passed some kind of special resolution to fix this situation, just for McCain.

I don't fault McCain in this...they went where they had to go. My own grandmother was born in Panama, too.

[msanthrope]

63. The hospital hadn't been built yet.

So he was born in the nearest city--Colon I think.

In 1937, Title 8 was modified to cover children born in the Zone, and since it was retroactive, it covered McCain.

[lindisfarne]

8. The issue is "natural born citizen". What that means is legally unclear - there's never been a

challenge to adequately define it.
Thus, if someone is not born within the US, it's not clear whether or not they are naturally born.
Obama was born in Hawaii- which was a state. So no question.

McCain- born in Panama on a military base. There was a ruling (but not one with legal precedence) that he meets qualifications.

There's an AZ senator (or rep?) who ran for Pres (can't remember his name ...) who was born in AZ territory. Since he never made it far enough, no ruling was made, but many feel he would meet the constitutional requirement.

However, someone born to American parents while they were students in Denmark - there's a question whether they can become president.

[lindisfarne]

9. Wikipedia explains the issue well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States

[Common Sense Party]

12. The birthers claim he's never produced a valid Hawaii birth certificate

and they say whatever one posted online is a digital fake. So that's why they keep saying there's a chance President Obama is not a "natural born citizen." They're looney tunes.

[lindisfarne]

13. They come up with various reasons. If there was anything to this, the Supreme Court would have heard

the case. That is the ultimate response to the idiots.

[TheBigotBasher]

87. I am having fun with a DUer playing with the birthers elsewhere.

Their argument is no longer that the certificate shown was forged, but that it is not a "long form birth certificate", which supposedly would reveal more. Of course it is all bull crap. The COLB is sufficient identity in all 50 States. So they are just mad stupid bigots.

[thelordofhell]

15. That AZ guy would be Barry Goldwater

And if you think that "never made it far enough" is being the party's nominee for President in 1964 and getting stomped like a bug by LBJ, then I guess you're right.

[Rhiannon12866]

38. My cousin was born in Germany while my uncle was in the army, stationed there.

She's an American citizen, since both her parents are, though she has no political ambitions... :-)

[Sebastian Doyle]

85. Not that it matters now, but McCain was actually NOT born in a military base.

He was born in a hospital in the city of Colon, which is just outside of what was the Panama Canal zone (under US occupation at the time) So McCain was definitely born on foreign soil, but he was born to US citizens, so his citizenship wouldn't be in question. But his "natural bornness" might have been.

As I said, doesn't matter now, unless you want to use the issue in pointing out freeper/birther/teabagger hypocrisy.

[lindisfarne]

11. See wikipedia link in thread. Regarding Obama, he's a citizen. But here are some of the arguments

they make:
The most prominent issue raised against Obama was the assertion that he was not actually born in Hawaii. In two other lawsuits, the plaintiffs argued that it was irrelevant whether he was born in Hawaii,<50> but argued instead that he was nevertheless not a natural born citizen because his citizenship at birth was, in part, determined by the British Nationality Act.<51> The relevant courts have either denied all applications or declined to render a judgment due to lack of jurisdiction.
(from wikipedia link)

[Sugarcoated]

14. Wasn't a birth announcement in the papers back then?

I recall reading there was more than one.

Talk about sore losers.

[Orangepeel]

16. they have a number of different bullshit rationalizations

each almost stupider than the idea that Obama's mother decided for some unknown reason to go to Kenya when she was very pregnant and then spearheaded an elaborate conspiracy to fake a Hawaiian birth.

One is some nonsense that there's some law that a citizen has to have lived in the US for a certain number of years to confer citizenship on their child and his mother was too young to have done so. Another is that his stepfather adopted him and that somehow negates his mother's citizenship. Another is that he had to renounce his US citizenship to go to school in Indonesia.

It's all, of course, completely nuts and racist to boot.

[Clio the Leo]

17. She slept with a black man! What more is there to understand?

She committed the ultimate sin! She made white men feel inferior! ;)

[NYC_SKP]

20. She WHAT???

:rofl:

:P

[Manifestor_of_Light]

24. She didn't date pasty white guys!!

They're offended!!

:rofl:

[Cali_Democrat]

27. LOL. I think they're feeling a little small, if ya know what I mean.....

Once you go black.......

[Politicalboi]

81. If only she had met

Pat Buchanan. :rofl: Oh never mind. LOL!

[mwb970]

40. A *lot* of the Freeper Madness stems from this sense of lost privilege.

Once you see it, it's everywhere, from the Birther nonsense to the embarrassing performance of the White Man Party at the Sotomayor hearings.

A certain percentage of white men simply cannot accept the fact that the world is changing. Their response is to constantly rage impotently about nonsense. Good luck with that!

[lapfog_1]

18. OK...

1. At the time of his birth, Hawaii was a state.

2. His mother was from Kansas, probably N generations of US born citizens. There is NO question about his mother.

3. The only question that could possibly arise is whether or not he was actually born in Hawaii... however, Hawaii has a birth certificate (official) for him AND there was an announcement placed in the Honolulu newspaper about his birth.

Even when he was moved as a child to Indonesia (his mother remarried an Indonesian), HE never renounced his US citizenship and I am certain that his mother wouldn't have allowed that. In fact, I believe that there was a US passport for him to go to Indonesia (but I haven't seen a copy of that posted to the internet).

The birthers are loons. Grabbing onto any straw because he is a) a Democrat and b) popular. They hate that. They thought they owned the Presidency and that a Bush - Palin style autocratic President could ignore Congress (which, of course, Bush did).

They want to live in a Fascist state or a Theocracy... where the liberals could be ignored or made fun of (like we were for the last 8 years). They hate it that we SURROUND them (to use the Beck argument) and that they are not only a minority, but actually a fairly small minority.

[goclark]

69. Love your take on it ~

Their take on it allows us to know for sure that "All the Nuts Are Not In The Candy Bars."

[Robeson]

88. Case closed.

[TexasObserver]

19. They're just too fucking stupid to understand a simple concept.

If either parent is an American, the kid is an American. 100% of the time. Doesn't matter who the daddy is if mama is an American. Doesn't matter where the baby is born.

[gauguin57]

35. Today it doesn't. But in 1961, under citizenship/naturalization law in effect until 1986, it did.

If Obama HAD been born elsewhere, under the law in effect between 1954 and 1986, his mother didn't have enough years of citizenship after the age of 16 (since she was only 18) to pass U.S. citizenship on to her child.

The law that was in effect when Barack was born was FREAKY. But since he WAS born in the U.S., it's all good.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

23. There are at least two different theories of birther madness. One is that his actual birthplace is

Kenya. No evidence whatsoever, but there you go.

The other is that he was born in Hawaii, which is the actual situation, but that because his dad was a foreign national even though his mom was a U.S. citizen, that somehow made him not "natural born". At least this one is based on the actual facts even though it rests on an unconventional interpretation of the "natural born" citizen thing. If I recall there are at least one or two other past Presidents who have had fathers who were foreign nationals as well.

Then there are even better theories where Obama's actual dad was every rightwinger's black boogeyman from Malcolm X to whoever.

[Lautremont]

26. I'd love it if his dad turned out to be Malcolm X.

At least it would shut up those birth certificate dillweeds.

[Bolo Boffin]

31. Do you really think so?

I don't think they'd get it.

[XemaSab]

79. Then we'd be hearing that Barack was born in MECCA!

:eyes:

[PatGund]

56. That and...

The belief that when his mom married Lolo Soetoro (thereby losing her US citizenship), Soetoro adopted him and as a result he lost his US citizenship as well. This ignores the fact that under US law, a minor cannot renounce their citizenship nor can the parents renounce for the minor.

[brooklynite]

25. Please refer to my previous explanation...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3968117&mesg_id=3968290

You'll never convince these people; they're too clever for you...

[Withywindle]

28. I'm still waiting for the "Macbeth argument"

Sooner or later, someone is going to make the case that no child born by C-Section can ever be President, because they're not "natural born."

NOT THAT OBAMA WAS, OR ANYTHING...I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW! :evilgrin:

[PatGund]

74. Actually....

Alan Keyes has made the claim that c-section isn't "natural born"

[Life Long Dem]

30. Here it is.

§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401----000-.html

[jberryhill]

32. Now find the version in effect in 1961...

Which was different in a way that, granted, is only significant if Mr. Obama were born in Kenya which, of course, he was not.

The law in effect in 1961 had a US residency requirement of a number of years that Ms. Dunham would not have satisfied.

Basically, the law was previously set up so that one could send one's pregnant teenage daughter for a "semester of study abroad", and no inconvenient persons would later turn up in the US.

[gauguin57]

33. There WOULD have been a problem if Obama had been born outside the US (which he wasn't), to wit ...

U.S. Immigration law, in effect from December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986:

"If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16...."

Because the birthers believe he was born outside the country, and because his mother was only 18 at the time (and, therefore, could not have lived the requisite 5 years as a U.S. citizen), they believe Obama is not a citizen. There WOULD be a problem if he was born outside the country (which we know he wasn't), according to the law in effect at the time.

[gauguin57]

45. In my previous post, the 1952 immigration law applied to children born outside the country ...

... who had only one citizen parent.

[gauguin57]

49. ... and it should have said "five years after the age of 14" instead of 16.

Ann Dunham still wouldn't have made it.

Now, I'm still unclear as to how the changing of this part of the act in 1986, to indicate you have to be a citizen for TWO years after the age of 14 changes things ... is it retroactive to 1961?

None of it matters, since Barack was born in the U.S. But there is an actual law (part of the Immigration and Nationality Act) that was in effect in 1961, that the birthers are hanging their hats on. It's Section 301 (7)

[JI7]

34. because their problem is that he is black

and that's not going to change no matter what.

[troubledamerican]

36. Watch & see: All future Democrats' legitimacy will be challenged as Presidents.

I generally agree, their problem is that he is black.

But watch & see. They'll try it with everyone. ACORN, "voter fraud", "illegal" immigrants on voter rolls, etc.

[mwb970]

39. Some wingnuts are really, REALLY determined to believe this Birther hooey.

I don't think there is any physical object you could show them, or any words that anyone now living could say, that would have the slightest effect on this belief. It is a belief that cannot be shaken, cannot be disproven, and will go to the grave with these people.

What a strange way to live: absolutely certain of the truth of crazy falsehoods like a virgin birth or a non-American Obama, and absolutely certain of the falsity of scientifically proven truths, like evolution or climate change.

How fascinating, yet how deeply pathetic these righties are.

:crazy:

[Orsino]

41. It's Opposite Day.

Since McCain was the presidential candidate without a birth certificate, and Obama does have one, the wingnuts had to dream up a way to claim that it was actually the other way around.

[mwb970]

42. It is amazing how often the wingnuts get it exactly backwards.

Up is down, day is night. Wow.

:crazy:

[BlooInBloo]

43. Why are DUers even talking about this?

[jberryhill]

44. I, for one, find birther antics entertaining

Why talk about anything.

The birthers are a fring-y bunch, whose crackpot theories are fun to ridicule.

The serious side of it is that they do bear watching, as the birther stuff is merging into the citizen's militia / hate group stuff.

Know your enemy.

[gordianot]

48. The degree of irrationality of conservatives is becoming a greater risk every day.

Those who continually spout the Obama birth nonsense are typical and represent just a tip of the iceberg. Living in a hot bed of racist reactionaries to President Obama I often hear the slurs, wishing
for violence, and almost always followed by the statement that President Obama (Muslim) is not a citizen of the United States. This includes some little old gray haired Granny's. They simply do not understand they are out of touch and a minority compared to the country at large. Stating that I support President Obama usually ends the conversation.

The rhetoric of violent response is being encouraged by news outlets such as radio talk show pundits, Fox News and Republican politicians who I listen to in an effort to try to understand where this is coming from. (This includes our moronic U.S Representative who calls the Tea Baggers patriots and states in the same breath the Fourth of July is about gun ownership) Non violent protest is not in their lexicon ultimately they will continually return to violence such as torture, assassination, suppression of basic rights, terrorism, and succession (the current Republican agenda). The news media continually underestimates the potential conflict as Conservative Radicals become more frustrated and lose control of their own rhetoric and grip on reality.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

50. What I want to know is:

What motivation would Obama's mother have had to cover up the fact that he was born in Kenya instead of Hawaii AT THE TIME OF HIS BIRTH? Was she like Nostradamus and could foresee him running for POTUS someday and would need to be ensured citizenship/eligibility to run so she falsely slipped an announcement into a Hawaiian newspaper and got a birth certificate forged for him? Is THAT what they honestly believe happened? :shrug:

[jberryhill]

51. Well, there are a couple of theories on that....

My favorite is that, yes, he was planned to become president, like some sort of Manchurian candidate.

If you dig long enough into this crud, you can find theories that his father was really some sort of revolutionary or Cuban communist, and that's what is being "covered up".

Although, there was one I caught last night which absolutely won the prize. The reason the president is "hiding" his birth certificate is that it says he is "White", and thus it would negate the title of "first black president".

Ummmmm...... riiiigggghhhht......

[Proud Liberal Dem]

53. One of the surest signs of a conspiracy therorist

is that there is simply NO way whatsoever to disprove their theories because they seem to have an amazing ability to instantly refute and/or find fault with ANY evidence presented challenging their fundamental beliefs. You knock down one argument and they instantly come up with a new one (or tell you why the proof you've offered is wrong or tainted in some way).

Birthers seem to be a particularly lost causes and I wouldn't be concerned about them save for their ability to use their loony theories to try to foment hatred and distrust of Obama among scared white men- which is ultimately what it all seems to be about IMHO. Are there ANY "birthers" whom claim to support Obama otherwise? The only people parading these wacky theories seem to be people whom apparently disliked/disapproved of Obama from the get-go and would never have voted for nor supported him even if they were fully convinced that he IS eligible for to be POTUS. :crazy:

[gordianot]

52. There is also a CIA theory.

Obama's mother worked for the Ford Foundation and USAID both of which are supposed fronts for the CIA. Supposedly Barak Obama was groomed for the Presidency by the CIA. The sheer reaction to the Obama administration by RW elements should disprove that theory.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

54. Right

RW elements DEFINITELY don't like him- which always make me wonder how some people here (and elsewhere) seem to think that he is somehow in the pockets of TPTB.

[sledgehammer]

59. Yes - that is what they honestly believe!

And that somehow Obama's mother had the resources to convince state authorities to fake a birth certificate for him!

Go birthers! Keep the entertainment coming!!!

[sledgehammer]

55. While the birthers are absolutely nuts because they can't seem to read a birth certificate....

...I also think it's important that we know where their lunacy is coming from.

These nutcases are first of all technically wrong about the 5 years residency requirement after age 16 - it's actually 5 years after age 14.

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

Here's the State Dept link: http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html

Now, had Obama been born outside of the US (given that his mother was less than 19 at the time of his birth), then yes, they would have had a case.

But the fact is that he was born in Hawaii:

- He has a certificate of live birth to prove it: http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/has_obamas_birth_certificate_been_disclosed.html

- And the Hawaii State Govt (led by a Republican Governor who was a McCain supporter) has personally inspected and verified the existence of the original birth certificate: http://www.kitv.com/politics/17860890/detail.html

Obama chooses not to release his original certificate for his own personal reasons - and that's fine, it's his choice, he has no reason to release the info.

I think the birthers are another gift that keeps on giving. The more some wingnuts are obsessed with the birth issue, the more pathetic it makes conservatives/repugs seem. Let them worry about the stupid stuff and divide themselves, while the rest of the country moves on.

[jberryhill]

67. "Obama chooses not to release his original certificate for his own personal reasons"

Actually, the State of Hawaii no longer provides them.

That's what makes the demand fun for the birthers - they know they are asking for something they can't get, so they make it seem like he's "refusing".

[sledgehammer]

68. True!

I guess Obama could request a copy for himself (which I believe the state would provide), and then release it publicly just to shut these idiots up.

But it's clear he doesn't cater to nutcases, which is awesome! And he has already released a COLB, which is good enough for anyone with a brain.

Finally, releasing it would mean denying us all this amazing entertainment!!!!! :)

Palin, birthers, horny GOPers...life is good!

[jberryhill]

70. And there's the catch, you see

The thing is, Obama would be asking the State of Hawaii to violate its own procedures to obtain the document.

Then the question is, "How could he obtain this so-called copy, when nobody else can come up with one? It must be FAKE!"

It's a lose-lose.

[sledgehammer]

73. Love it!

What's more amazing is that these birthers think that so many people are happy to be involved in this "conspiracy."

I mean, it takes one person in the Hawaii govt to expose the entire "conspiracy." And don't you think the other Dem/Repug candidates would have wanted to disqualify Obama if they could???

So the Fed govt and Hawaii are in cahoots on this whole issue, and have been for so long???

I feel bad for birthers. The few brain cells they have are, unknowingly to them, spent on entertaining the rest of us. But hey, I'll keep enjoying it!

[BklnDem75]

57. Guess Lou Dobbs is sniffing for ratings

http://www.loudobbs.com/programhighlights?date=20090715

Joining Lou in the Independent Nation on Wednesday will be Orly Taitz who represents Major Stefan Frederick Cook discusses the lawsuit brought about by her and Major Cook which questioned President Obama's legal citizenship in the United States. Ambassador Alan Keyes, Americas Independent Party 2008 Nominee for President discusses his own lawsuit against the legal citizenship of President Obama.

And Peter J. Spiro, Charles R. Weiner Professor of Law at Temple University weighs in the process of becoming a United States Citizen, what a President must do to show proof of their citizenship.

[Doctor_J]

58. It's only "lingering" because the birthers are completely brainwashed

Anyone who thinks they can be "convinced" of anything needs at least as much psychological help as the borthers themselves.

[librechik]

61. Well his mother MAY have been an American, but the Father was BLACK and from Kenya

so of course that overrides any silly rights the woman has. Bitches barely even have the right to vote!
Especially in Kenya. So SHE was a traitor, and the offspring of a traitor does not deserve to be an American Citizen, with all the royal obligations and privileges that implies. In fact, they are retroactively rescinding her citizenship, just because. And besides, who cares? Even if the FR understood the law, they wouldn't feel obligated to follow it, because they are Conservatives, Mavericks, see--They only obey they law when it suits them and when it goes in their favor. Otherwise, SCREW the law! That's what a real amurkan says!

[lindisfarne]

64. OP does say something that is not necessarily true. This doesn't concern Obama but it does concern

whether someone born to an American parent outside the US is considered a "natural born citizen", which is what the Constitution lists as a requirement to be president. This is an unsettled area of law - it's never been brought up through the courts for resolution.

McCain was born in Panama on a military base to American parents - he was deemed eligible to be president. And while it may seem likely the courts would decide the same way for a person born to American parents anywhere in the world, it's not an absolute. McCain was born on a military base, which some view as different from being born in another country - but not on a military base.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_of_the_United_States

[jberryhill]

71. Consider

The 14th Amendment says you become a citizen one of two ways. If you didn't have to go through naturalization, then you were born one.

[lindisfarne]

77. That's one opinion. The courts have not ruled on this matter - I don't think you read the wikipedia

article. The issue is not "are you a citizen" but "do you meet the eligibility requirements to be president". Not all citizens do - the issue, as I've made clear, is what is meant by "natural born citizen".

There is some doubt. I tend to think the courts wouldn't side with the doubters, but until the courts do make a ruling, the doubt remains.

(Please read #64 before responding).

[jberryhill]

78. "I don't think you read the wikipedia article"

I'm quite familiar with this issue, and also quite familiar with this notion of "three tier citizenship" the birthers have cooked up in the last year.

One is born a citizen of the US, or one immigrates and naturalizes. Those are the only two options.

The birthers hang on to "natural born" as if it had some special meaning other than one who is a citizen of the US at birth. There is simply no support for that proposition - even if one does read a post-1790 translation of a Swiss writer explaining French law.

[lindisfarne]

80. The Yale Law Journal has a 1988 article referring to this uncertainty I referred to w.r.t.. "natural

born citizen". The view that there is confusion has been around for more than the last few years.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/796518

[WinkyDink]

65. Their argument is one of location, not parenthood.

[polmaven]

66. You are right about the citizenship...

Their contention, though, in maintaining that he was not born in Hawaii - which sane people know he was - is that the Constitution requires that the president must have been born ON AMERICAN SOIL, not just as an American citizen.

[treestar]

76. Obama wouldn't have been

there are limits on that - at 18 she would not have had the requisite 5 years in the US after the age of 14. Under the scenario, she would have been living in another country at 18 and so any child she had at 18 outside the US would not have been a citizen.

But that should never be reorted to - because it allows the wingunts the claim Obama wasn't born in the US to be true, even for purposes of argument.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

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[Jeff In Milwaukee]

83. I was wondering the same thing

If your parent is an American citizen, you can have dual citizenship, but that doesn't make you anything less than a bona fide American citizen. So even if we was born in Kenya, he's still be eligible to serve as POTUS.

[fishwax]

86. because they're irrational racists for whom facts don't matter

:grr: