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"The Democrats have been cowed by taunts that single-payer is "socialized medicine"

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:15 AM
Original message
"The Democrats have been cowed by taunts that single-payer is "socialized medicine"
The Salt Lake Tribune is only partially correct with that assessment: Democrats like Max Baucus, Ben Nelson, and Blanche Lincoln are simply cowed by the idea their corporate contributions would stop coming in. Democrats like Obama, however, are cowed more at the idea of being perceived as "socialist":



http://www.sltrib.com/ci_12853566

Health reform
Battle will be fought over who pays

Tribune Editorial
Updated: 07/16/2009 05:31:11 PM MDT

Democrats in the U.S. House of Representatives have unveiled a health care reform bill that preserves the employer-based health insurance system while extending coverage to the uninsured. It does this by requiring that individuals be insured and that businesses provide insurance. Those who don't would pay penalties. It would expand Medicaid to the poor. It would subsidize premiums and co-pays for many middle-income people. It has a public option. And, oh yes, it would impose an income surtax on the wealthiest Americans.

The bill is more than 1,000 pages long and we have only read summaries, but we can see that the battle over its passage will be fought over its costs to businesses and the wealthy. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce already is screaming that the plan would kill jobs and actually make a bad health care system much worse.

The bill is a Rube Goldberg contraption, the inevitable result of an attempt to build on an employer-based system that is failing. A single-payer system could be simpler and more efficient. But the Democrats have been cowed by taunts that single-payer is "socialized medicine" and, unfortunately, they took that option off the table from the get-go. Because business groups have helped the insurance industry lead the charge against single-payer, perhaps they are about to reap what they have sowed.

The House plan would mandate that all Americans obtain insurance. Those who earn enough to file income-tax returns would pay a
Advertisement
2.5 percent penalty on the difference between their adjusted gross income and the tax filing threshold if they did not get insurance. Likewise, businesses that did not offer a health plan that meets minimum standards would pay a penalty in the form of a payroll tax that would range from 2-8 percent depending upon the size of the payroll.

In addition, individuals with adjusted gross incomes of $280,000 or more ($350,000 for couples) would pay a progressive surtax ranging from 1 percent to 5.4 percent.

One major difference between the House and Senate plans, which are alike in many other respects, is that the Senate is trying to figure out a different way to raise the $1 trillion the plan would cost over the next decade. So far, senators haven't reached a consensus.

The House bill would tap the richest 1.2 percent of Americans, who got the biggest tax cuts under George W. Bush, to subsidize health care for the uninsured. Given the ever widening income disparity in the country, that's a logical place to go.
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invictus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Single-payer is socialized insurance. The healthcare-providing sector stays 100% private. n/t
Edited on Fri Jul-17-09 10:26 AM by invictus
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Leo The Cleo Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. The no Gov't monies should go into
The private companies take billions from the gov't. You're right. They should stay totally private, with no gov't funds. I'm sure they won't pass the price off in premiums
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. huh?
Look, what they are saying is that single-payer is merely a socialized insurance entity that pays out per service to health providers. It maintains the separation between the insurance sector and the healthcare sector, and only addresses the insurance sector. There is nothing wrong with a socialized insurance entity paying out to private providers
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knixphan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. exactly!
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. The healthcare sector isn't 100% private as is
But, yeah, it remains untouched.
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nah
They've been bought off.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
3. crappy plan. What a financial windfall to the health insurance extortion corporations!!!!!
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Leo The Cleo Donating Member (352 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Single-payer is not socialism
For anyone to assert that it is socialism is ridiculous. And if it is socialism, then we should get rid of various government agencies,; and not the ones we normally think of. Yes, it's true that republicans and dem's both collect social security, (even though it's not a socialist program) there are programs that have to be considered socialist if government health insurance is available.

By any measure, the post office is socialism. And the fact that the government post office came after private mail distributors means that it is interfering with the "free market." That is socialism. Public safety is socialism. Mandatory education (public schools) is socialism. The draft was socialism. The military in and of itself is socialism. Licensing of any sort for anything is socialism.

The system of a republic may be socialism too. After all, we don't vote for our President. So, it certainly isn't democracy. In our system "electors" have multiple votes. All of congress votes for everything we do. It is fact that our elected officials are oftentimes paid off, so that is certainly fascism. When industry controls government, that government is fascism. But this is what republicans want. They want "New York Citi." They want private business to run our country. Seems funny to me.
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busymom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. In a way it is...but you say socialism like it is a bad word...
From wikipedia...

Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, creates an unequal society, and does not provide equal opportunities for everyone in society. Therefore socialists advocate the creation of a society in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly based on the amount of work expended in production, although there is considerable disagreement among socialists over how and to what extent this could be achieved.

Socialism is not a concrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #4
12. It is socialism.
Its an insurance entity 100% owned publicly. That makes it socialistic. There is nothing wrong with this.

And yes, the post office is also socialism. Anytime the means of production are owned by the public at large (instead of privately), it is socialism
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
5. The debate about health care reform ended when Obama announced single payer was a no-go.
Everything since has been a show for our benefit so that we'll be grateful for being stuck with the same broken, corrupt and anti-human system when they finally do pass their stupid bill.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. In time I believe we'll all be very sorry that this "reform"
included employer and individual mandates rather than providing a national healthcare "service"--single payer.

I anticipate that the health insurance extortion corporations have already figured out how to limit services, erect barriers to actual receipt of services. They already do it by limiting services, needing "prior authorization", etc. What a total waste of my practitioner time! And a hindrance to my use of services as a patient too.

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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
11. I AM A SOCIALIST!! SO FUCK YOU!
Edited on Fri Jul-17-09 11:36 AM by and-justice-for-all
It is not my fault that they are to stupid to understand the difference between begin a Socialist and a Communist.

SOCIALIZED Health Care is EXACTLY what the rest of the industrialized world has and I WANT IT TOO!!!
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. +1. it makes me cringe when people use "socialism" as some sort of a dirty word.

only in America people have been brainwashed by corporate media to fear that boogieman...

everywhere else in the post-industrial world, people actually enjoy social safety including healthcare.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. Looking through a very brief bio of FDR last night -
A young reporter asks him "Are you a Communist?"

FDR, slightly astonished, replies, "No."

Then young reporter asks, "Are you a Socialist?"

FDR, even more astonished, replies "No."

So young reporter finally asks, "What are you?" and then FDR says, "I am a Democrat. And I am a Christian."

Period.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. "Democrats like Obama"
Yes now if we simply could get rid of "Democrats like Obama" as well as all of the others like Baucus et al we would be left with a party that could feed its picnic with a single barrel of Kentucy Fried Chicken.
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suzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-17-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. But we'd have party purity.
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