How do I feel about Mr. Obama?

[WillParkinson]

Yesterday I was told, "you never wanted to like him in the first place", apparently based on my posts. So I'm here to give my innermost personal thoughts on the subject.

First, I did not vote for him in the primary. After Donny McClurkin I felt Mr. Obama was not truly on my side, but was pandering to get votes. I voted for Ms. Clinton in the primary, though Mr. Kucinich was actually my first choice (but he had dropped out by then).

After Mr. Obama won the primary I still was not certain about him. The shadow of Mr. McClurkin still seemed to follow him.

However, Mr. Obama nudged me back into his corner by actually mentioning gays and lesbians at critical junctures, and not pretending they did not exist. He promised to be a fierce advocate for gays and lesbians. I was excited.

When it came time to choose between Mr. Obama and Mr. Biden vs Mr. McCain and Ms. Palin, there was no choice. Mr. Obama got my vote.

Then came Rick Warren speaking at the invocation. Yes, I was very upset about that. I will not deny it. It's part of the public record of Democratic Underground. I felt betrayed by this pick, the anti-gay pastor who helped pass Proposition 8.

Mr. Obama was now in the White House. And after that it seemed like the only time gays and lesbians got mentioned was in flowery speeches, but the actions were not there. When California was going to the polls to decide whether gay marriage was legal, Mr. Obama said nothing. Not that I expected him to say anything. It was, after all, a state issue he claimed (though I do not think anyone should have their civil rights put to a vote).

When Iowa passed gay marriage Mr. Obama gave a very tepid reply.

This "fierce advocate" for gays and lesbians said pretty much nothing.

The DoJ brief on gay marriage sounded like something that could have easily come from the Bush administration.

A few crumbs to gay federal workers.

I had expected more from the self-proclaimed "fierce advocate".

Was I being too impatient? I do not know. It's possible. Perhaps I was expecting too much, too soon. But when you expect some kind of forward movement and each step you see seems to take you backwards, it's quite disheartening.

So to say you never wanted to like him in the first place is not actually correct. I *want* to like Mr. Obama. I *want* to have faith in him. But after 30 years of dealing with lip service from other politicians, and seeing how things have gone thus far, it's very difficult to see him as anything more than the next politician in line who got what they wanted from me and then wanted to forget I was there.

Have I been harsh on Mr. Obama? Yes. I admit that, too. I've also posted what I consider positive articles about him.

I have not written Mr. Obama off. I do, however, want him to earn my trust again. I want him to show me that I actually matter to him, and not just as a vote.

Am I asking too much?

[cali]

1. I don't think you're asking too much.

He's been lousy on GLBT rights and issues.

[jclincali]

2. All I can say is that he is a big talker, but I don't see much action. That applies to more than

LGBT rights.

[scheming daemons]

3. There's nothing wrong with being a single-issue voter

But make no mistake, that's what you are.

I appreciate your perspective, though I do not share it.

There are so many great and pressing problems in this country right now to deal with, that I'm willing to accept and appreciate a President that is right on 90% of the issues and wrong on 10%. But I admit, the 10% he's wrong on doesn't affect me as directly as it affects you.

Good luck... and I sincerely think that Obama will do right by the LGBT community before his term is up. We'll see.

[Prism]

4. Civil Rights are not "single issue"

They are about equality in healthcare, equality in marriage, equality in family law, equality in immigration, equality in inheritance, equality in housing, equality in employment, equality in . . .

When we advocate for equal rights, we are advocating for EVERY issue.

Because every single issue in our lives is affected by our inequality.

[WillParkinson]

5. I do not mind if you do not share my perspective...

However, please don't call me a single-issue voter.

There are 1,400 rights that married couples get automatically that gays and lesbians currently cannot have. These include:

On the order of 1,400 legal rights are conferred upon married couples in the U.S. Typically these are composed of about 400 state benefits and over 1,000 federal benefits. Among them are the rights to:
joint parenting;
joint adoption;
joint foster care, custody, and visitation (including non-biological parents);
status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent;
joint insurance policies for home, auto and health;
dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support;
immigration and residency for partners from other countries;
inheritance automatically in the absence of a will;
joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment;
inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate);
benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare;
spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home;
veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns;
joint filing of customs claims when traveling;
wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children;
bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child;
decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her;
crime victims' recovery benefits;
loss of consortium tort benefits;
domestic violence protection orders;
judicial protections and evidentiary immunity;
and more....

Each of these is part of the greater whole, but each of them is very important to me, my partner, and my family. If you want to call it single-issue that is obviously your choice, but I'm voting to ensure that my partner and I, and our friends and family, will be taken care of in the event something happens to one of us.

I will not deny the other things are important, but my family is the most important thing to me in my life. And that determines my vote.

[Egnever]

73. You sound like a single isue voter to me

Theres lots like you.

[WillParkinson]

75. Yes, all the things that add up in my life...

Are single issues to some people. Your opinion has been noted, thank you.

[TheWatcher]

6. .....

bill of goods

n. pl. bills of goods

1. A consignment of items for sale.

2. Informal A plan, promise, or offer, especially one that is dishonest or misleading: "The salesman himself . . . is often depicted as the ultimate sucker, who has fallen for his own cheesy bill of goods" (Walter Goodman).

[jonnyblitz]

7. once the obama followers wake up this thread is going to be

unrecommended into oblivion. i will be surprised if i am proven wrong. we are just a bunch of racist, single issue voters you know.

[WillParkinson]

8. If that's how they feel, I'm OK with it...

I've made my feelings known, I've talked about how I felt, and whether they accept it or not is up to them.

[cali]

9. uh, I'm an Obama "follower" or supporter or whatever you wish to call it.

You might note that my first post in this thread supports the OP.

[Still Sensible]

23. I agree. And I rec'd the OP...

I appreciate WillBowden's thoughtful explanation. I fully expect the President to come through for his GLBT constituency before he leaves the WH and will be more than disappointed if he doesn't.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

27. I am an Obama "follower"

but I too recommended your OP. He has been disappointing on many things GLBT issues are one of a few things that disappoint me about his Presidency thus far. I voted for him and still think he can right the things that I disagree with him on. But don't assume that "Obama followers" are a bunch of blind followers that don't care about certain issues because they support their President. Maybe it was a bad choice of words but I think you asssume a bit too much.

[Butch350]

10. It's all about me...fuck the rest of america.

Put this post to music and it will make a great CW song.

[cali]

11. bullshit. that is not how the OP reads.

[Butch350]

17. Oh. I'm sorry! I couldn't read it well with all the tears in my eyes.

[Prism]

22. You know . . .

I'm really bad at checkers. Terrible. Don't understand the game. Chess? No problem. Love it. Got a nice marble and onyx set from my great grandparents. But, right, terrible at checkers.

I've often set out to remedy this, but I think what would really tell the world I'm out to become the fiercest checkers player ever would be a rebranding.

My name is now Checkers.

Image, baby, image.

[Howardx]

35. bingo! n/t

[Forkboy]

51. now I know why lions eat their young.

[Honeycombe8]

12. His title is "President," not "Mr." So your disrespect of the leader of our country....

says it all.

Why are you posting in a forum that supports the President?

[cali]

13. oh bollocks. the op was not disrespectful to Obama

and why the fuck shouldn't he post? This forum is NOT just for supporters of the president.

[Honeycombe8]

16. Yes, OP was. End of story. When someone has a title, and you refuse to use it...

or acknowledge it...that is being blatantly and openly hostile and disrespectul, no matter who the title holder is. But especially when it's the President.

It's like calling an Af. American man "boy." "Oh, bullocks! That's not being disrespectful! How silly! How petty!"

Yeah, right.

[cali]

56. what a steaming pile of stinking shit.

It's nothing like calling a man "boy". You are way off base. I refer to Obama as Obama frequently. I'm a supporter. You just don't want to hear what the OP has to say so you're desperately trying to find a way to deflect from what he's saying.

[Neecy]

14. oh, brother. How petty.

[Honeycombe8]

18. When someone has a title, and you not only refuse to use it, but use ANOTHER title...

that is INTENTIONALLY making a statement of disrespect and non-acknowledgement of the office. Doesn't matter who the President is. And it's not like referring to him in a shorthanded "Obama" or "O" way. The OP went out of his way to use ANOTHER title....repeatedly. Odd, to say the least.

But you know this.

[Neecy]

20. there's absolutely nothing wrong with Mr.

Why the hysteria?

[Honeycombe8]

32. There's no hysteria. Upset that you and others were called on this? Even Fox News calls him Prez.

You know I'm right.

You've been called on the obvious denigration.

[Neecy]

57. lol

[polmaven]

93. Excuse me, but his title is

President....not "Prez". Please stop being so disrespectful!

[Bluenorthwest]

26. You know the posts I don't like to see about the Pres?

Many of the ardent admirers of the President post their lustful droolings about him, a married man, even as they spout off about their 'faith' opposing gay rights. They post how much they desire Michelle's husband, then say 'praise the lord marriage is sacred.'
I don't talk about people's spouses as objects of my desire. I find that offensive and dehumanizing to the President. Those who post it think they are his finest supporters. I'd say Michelle would disagree, and would rather have 10 people calling him Mr Obama than one salivating fan calling him hot stuff.
Respect is a funny thing. Silly titles are not respect. But there is also very little respect involved in the commodification of another person's spouse for enjoyment in public displays of desire.
Just saying. Mr Obama is correct and just fine. "I want that married man." is not. Not in my book. Also oddly enough, not in the book of the poster's 'faith'. Which says that such lust is the exact same as action, just go ask Mr Carter, Jimmy.
So you are offended and not offended by some funny things indeed. Not the same things that offend me.

[countingbluecars]

28. To admire someone from afar

is not lustful drooling. It's just idle chatter. Not to mention, where have you seen 'praise the lord marriage is sacred' on DU? Your argument would be much better if not so over the top.

[Honeycombe8]

33. You clearly don't understand the snubbing of calling someone who

has reached the highest office in the land a different title that you would call Joe the Plumber.

Or maybe you do.

You've been called on it. The denigration has been noticed and outed.

Even Fox News calls Obama (whom they hate), President Obama. His fans may call him O or Obama. Only an enemy calls him Mr. Obama...they are clearly making a statement: Who does he think he is? He's not MY President. He's just a guy like any other guy.

No hysteria. No shock. You've just been outed is all as using tactics found in freerepublic.

[polmaven]

94. Ok, let me get this straight!

It's OK to call him O or just Obama, and leave off any "title" at all, if you are a so-called "fan", but if you criticize anything at all about what he is doing, calling him Mr. Obama is disrespectful?

:shrug: !

Methinks thou dost protest too much!

[Jennicut]

46. A lot of that is joking around and not meant to be

taken seriously. I guess I am one of those people. I post silly stuff when there are pics of Obama on the board. However, I would never say that marriage is sacred crap. I am ardently for gay rights. I think he needs to move on it more for sure. My biggest disappointment with him so far.
I am also very religious (my husband works at a church as a choir director) and to treat others as you would like to be treated is a Christian thing and yet looking down on gays is not, period. Many religious people are for gay marriage.
And the term President is a formal term but half the time when he is with his friends I bet he has them call him "Barack".
And people who get offended that easily need some thicker skin.

[ecstatic]

42. Agreed. If he had just left it at "Obama," it would have

been less obvious.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Both forms of address are considered correct protocol , particularly in

written words. This is an elected public servant, in the United States of America. We call most Presidents by their last name alone, ie Clinton got elected twice, that Nixon was a crook, Bush is an idiot. We also call them by their first names, both in respect and in disdain. "Bill fucked up" " Ronny looks sleepy" or "Barack's speech was wonderful" and note, those are short form familiars. When we wish to show actual disrespect, we go full tilt name calling, "Tricky Dick" "Slick Willy" "The Chimp" "The Shrub" "Jerry Fraud" and so on.
This is not a kingdom, and we are not subjects but citizens. We are a country that universally called President Carter "Jimmy". Jimmy. In print, in spoken words. President Carter, or Jimmy.
It is silly to expect that any President would be accorded different address than the other 43 before.
Here is a quote for ya, from Teddy Roosevelt, Mr Roosevelt called 'Trustbuster' and 'Rough Rider' and many other nicknames, had a toy bear named after him for liking the woods. He said:

"To announce that we must not criticize the President, or that we must stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only servile and unpatriotic, but it is morally treasonable to the American public."

Strong words from the guy we all call Teddy. Or TR. Servile is my favorite of Teddy's word choices.

[ibegurpard]

38. what shit

eom

[cboy4]

40. Why are you posting in a forum that supports the President?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH :spray:

Now I have heard everything!!!!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

43. Oh lord...I call him just straight up "Obama". It's a messageboard. Geez.

I also call other presidents "Clinton", "Lincoln" "Kennedy" "Bush" "Reagan" "Carter" etc.

[Forkboy]

52. Get a fucking grip.

[ruggerson]

54. my sentiments exactly Mr. Forkboy

[Forkboy]

55. And that poster has a "feeling sorry for myself" OP in GD right now.

All bummed out over dogs. But an uppity gay person doesn't genuflect properly and they're on the wrong board. Hows it feel being thought less of than a dog?

[JohnnyLib2]

15. I think this is a thoughtful and perhaps prescient OP.

Many D voters will be questioning themselves along these lines when primary time rolls around.

The same might be said about Iraq/Afghanistan policies, IMO.

[Honeycombe8]

19. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize, isn't it? Sure, it is. nt

[Prism]

21. You're tellin' me

All day, every day, straight people come to the gay and lesbian softball game, set up their lawn chairs, and shout strategy for thirteen innings. And it's a seven inning game!

Plus they don't bring cupcakes or capri sun for after.

That's really what chaps my chaps.

[Hutzpa]

24. Maybe you can find a Republican

who can do better than Mr Obama, when you do let me know....

[solstice]

29. I could have written this. And I'm not even gay. So please don't let the Obama worshippers

who don't care whose rights Obama throws under the bus as long as THEY'RE happy get to you. They are not worth it!

Although, personally, I don't understand how ANY dem could be happy with Obama unless he starts acting like a REAL democrat.

And THAT includes STRONGLY advocating for gay rights, and NOT giving a voice to the likes of Rick Warren.

I see the same thing happening now with abortion rights in health care reform.

Some people here are ready to them under the bus, too.

I think anyone who is satisfied with anything less than Americans having FULL CONTROL of their bodies is NOT a true Democrat. And that includes Obama.

I refuse to rationalize, cheerlead, or be satsified with crumbs. I voted for a Democrat. I expect him to act like one. If he doesn't, I will not vote for him again. It's that simple.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hippywife]

30. I am disappointed in the issues

of equal rights and healthcare, too. What I am truly hoping is that he and the congress, for there are things under their purview that he cannot change on his own, are taking steps that can be more easily digested by the general public that will lead to full equal rights and single payer healthcare in the future. As anxious as I, too, am to see these wrongs rectified, I fear if these things aren't taken in smaller steps, the backlash would make that of the right's response to Clinton (which is still ongoing :eyes:) look like a small shrug.

I have been a Kucinich supporter from the beginning, so that was also my first choice, but as with you, I didn't get to cast my vote for him as he had dropped out by that time. But in retrospect, I like him right where he is as he does get the room to say what needs to be said and keeps the discussion and the party at least moving in the proper direction. Obama won me over slowly and in the end, as you say, there was no choice. However, I am convinced that his heart and mind are in the right place and he is trying to move things along at the pace he feels that the country can accept, and yet the right is in full outrage because of the stupidity of both themselves and those that lead them around by the nose.

I'm totally with you but I feel that, with the economy in the tank and two wars in the forefront, what we want done cannot be done in a single term, let alone the first six months. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for the time being with a wait and see attitude and hoping that if more of us do, with a little patience and the persistence to keep addressing him on the issues, we will see the changes we desire. If he doesn't take the most pressing issues that effect the entire country in hand first (economy and war) we will not get another term in which he and congress can do the rest of what needs to be done.

Hang in there, Will. Let's help him and congress hold on to the reins long enough to do it all. :hi:

[PolNewf]

31. Priorities

Obama stated several times before the election what his top priorities were:

1) Economy (due to crash)
2) Energy
3) Healthcare
4) Education

This is where he will initially spend his political capital doing the heavy lifting. I'm not saying all the other issues are not important but people shouldn't be surprised that they aren't addressed forcefully by Obama until his top priorities have been dealt with.

You can gripe and complain but you should realize the support or lack of support people give him now will affect how much political capital he will have left after these fights. If you want Obama to help you I would suggest you help Obama help you.

You are not asking for too much, you are asking for it too soon.

[Egnever]

74. Well said and I couldnt agree more

I understand the desire to get this situation fixed especialy from people most efected by it. What i dont understand is where people think they are helping get their goals acomplished by tryi9ng to undercut the President who has publicly stated his intent to deal with thier issue.

Making him weaker will help their cause how exactly? Despite what seems to me the obvious inequity of the state of GLBT rights in this country it will not be easy to pass meaningfull legislation. 70% + support a public option yet its starting to look like it might have trouble passing and that is a cause obama is totaly comitted to. The idea that he could just snap his fingers and make GLBT right5s happen is ludicrous. THe support for GLBT rights is growing but it doesnt come close to 70%.

But hey bitching and moaning about what a failure Obama is will definately make that fight easier when it does come.

[WillParkinson]

76. Hopefully one day the Democrats will get an amazing education bill...

That will help people learn reading and comprehension.

The post was written because I know I was expecting too much too soon. Yes, I wanted it quickly after 30 years of waiting, but I realize that I can wait a bit longer and give the man the opportunity to do the job that he was elected for.

I still will say something when he does something I think is wrong, but I will try to temper my disappointment with the hope that he is trying to make it better for everyone.

[Egnever]

79. And maybe they will do something about writing skills as well

Cause your post from top to bottom read to me as one of disrespect and scorn with a little outrach for self validation thrown in under the disguise of "am I asking for too much?"

If you tuely have come to realize that you have been demonizing one of the best supporters you have despite his not standing at the bully pulpit and speaking of GLBT issues every day. Then I applaud your coming to your senses. Somehow though after reading your OP i am left with the feeling we will see much more of the same from you when every single thing doesnt go exactly the way you want it to go.

Mr. Obama screams disrespect. Thankfully he thinks more of your issues than you do of him.

[WillParkinson]

81. Right....

Because saying Mr. is a term of disrespect.

I showed him more respect by referring to him as Mr, a term used for a gentleman, than most people who call him simply Obama or O. How disrespectful is it to call the President of the United States by his last name? Or just an initial? Unless, of course, you are close personal friends. Then by all means, feel free.

Somewhere else in this post I said that I try to give everyone respect. I called the former President Mr. Bush, but not one single person took offense at that. No one said that I was being disrespectful to the highest office in the land.

I apologize profusely if anyone thinks that I am trying to be disrespectful, but if that is the only thing people want to focus on instead of trying to actually read what I wrote, then I'm not going to agonize over people who refuse to understand.

And, yes, you will be seeing me talk about things that he does that I disagree with. Yes, I will likely still complain, but I do so with the hope that things do get better for everyone.

So, yes, I am going to try to be more patient. 30 years of being a political tool has left me a bit bitter and mistrusting. Be honest, though, with all the things that politicians have claimed they wanted to do for the gay community and all the things that have actually been followed through on, can you blame me for being "once-bitten, twice shy"?

[Egnever]

83. OK a couple points

First I doubt you will find anyone on this site that holds Bush in anything but contempt. Not really surprising that no one says anything when you disrespect Bush here.

I will repeat what I said down thread. Show me another president that has been as outspoken about Gay rights as Obama has. You cant. He may not have signed into law equal rights for GLBT^ people but he has been consistent since the beginning i9n saying that you deserve them. He cant wave a magic wand and make it happen by himself it takes a bill out of congress landing on his desk for him to sign. He has more things on his plate right now than anyone should have to deal with.

I heard today that his staff is starting to suffer from burnout there are so many issues of global significance they are dealing with that they have been working 12 hour days since before he was sworn in.

I realize your desire to see this issue addressed sooner rather than latter, and were it up to me I would have seen it resolved years ago. Unfortunately the reality is that the man has a ton on his plate he and his staff are working ridiculous hours trying to get this nation back on track.

Cut the guy some slack he wants you to have equal rights. He has said so repeatedly. Point me to another president who has and we can talk again about once bitten twice shy. Hell he has generals in the army stating that his position on DADT has been made perfectly clear to them, and that they are making plans for instituting the changes he is pushing for so that when the legislation goes through they will be ready to institute it.

I don't see how you can come up with the view that this president isn't in your corner.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

34. Mr. Obama?

Mr. Presidenet to you

[LWolf]

60. Mr. Presidenet...

:rofl:

[Phx_Dem]

36. The title of your post says it all.

Mr. Obama?

So you're not happy. What the fuck else is new, and who gives a shit?

[Oregone]

37. I don't think it is all that important to like him as a buddy anyway

In fact, its probably very detrimental. Unfortunately, I think he is a very likable person. But as the president of the United States, I think it is important to forget his name and face, and focus on words, actions and policies when deciding if you "like" (approve) of him. People's infatuation with Obama may influence their judgment of actual policies. So what is more important? A politician's smile and ability to deliver a sentence, or their ability to deliver favorable legislation?

[kestrel91316]

39. I note with some interest how you insist on calling our president

"Mr. Obama" instead of "President Obama". Says a lot to me, that you cannot bring yourself to use his title.

[ecstatic]

41. You went out of your way to be disrespectful

so I'm not going to bother with searching for deeper content in your post.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

44. As cboy said in another thread yesterday, the speech was good. But meanwhile

good Americans who *want* to serve their country are being thrown out of the military. Even the argument "well, they're working on healthcare" doesn't hold up as DSC pointed out a really great option: Suspend discharges for a year or some set time limit. This also gets rid of the argument that Obama can't act because otherwise Congress will never repeal DADT, or some such nonsense.

Obama is probably better at speeches than most. But year after year after year, on GLBT issues, all anyone has given are speeches. How can people expect anyone not to be wary?

[tranche]

45. Yes. You're asking too much. You want him to show you that you "matter to him"?

WTF is that? I want him to show me that I matter to him too. I want Obama to pull up to my house and ask for my trust back, but I'm not insane and realize that he's the President of the United States of America. I really don't care if he doesn't give a shit about me as an individual. I just want him to start steering the ship of 300 million in the right direction.

You've got to be fucking kidding me man. You're mad because the guy hasn't given you a hug yet. I realize people project on Obama but some have taken it way too far.

And Kucinich? Really? Is there a group of people that think some Kucinich utopia is just a short ufo ride away? I wish he could be president for a day; so that projection of the kind and gentle hero could be torn down too. Because believe me, Kucinich as President wouldn't show you that you matter to him either and I'd be sitting down reading through a painfully craptastic post called "How do I feel about Mr. Kucinich?

[varelse]

47. No, you are not asking too much

You have the right both as a human being and as a US citizen, to demand and expect, (not merely to ask for) equality. Refusing to write President Obama off, and instead letting him and his staff and his supporters know that you expect more from him, is the right course of action.

[FrenchieCat]

48. I'm finding a disconnect in your OP, so can you help me with it please?

First you say...."I did not vote for him in the primary....I voted for Ms. Clinton in the primary, though Mr. Kucinich was actually my first choice "

and you go on to say...."After Mr. Obama won the primary I still was not certain about him."

and you cap it off with,".....between Mr. Obama and Mr. Biden vs Mr. McCain and Ms. Palin, there was no choice. Mr. Obama got my vote."

Then you wonder,"...Perhaps I was expecting too much, too soon."

First off, my answer to your wonderment, is YES, perhaps you expected too much, too soon, because it appears that you only supported Obama during the General election, and then your vote for him was based on the fact that McCain was not a choice.

The disconnect I'm finding is that I don't truly understand why you would expect so much from this President and expect it so soon when you have only supported him when you had no other alternative to vote for? Why now expect and be disappointed that he hasn't fulfilled your priority agenda in the first 6 months of his term when you must have always suspected that this would be exactly the case....which is why you didn't support him in the first place?

It's kind of like you demanding to have your cake and to eat it too....and then being pissed because they haven't gotten what you think you would have, when you should have.

I'm sorry to say, but to some degree the cliche applies here, "Elections have consequences"....and so as it is for others who who may have gone through the election exactly in your same position, although I think you will eventually get the majority of what is important to you, it appears that you will not get it exactly when you had determined you should.

In a way, it would be more logical for you to be more patient and less expecting than those who supported him all along. I would have thought, obviously wrongly, that even what you call those "crumbs being thrown", that the actions that this President has taken so far would actually be looked upon as more than just crumbs since you, according to your story, would have to have a generally low expectation of him to begin with.

It is my belief that you will ultimately get exactly what President Obama said you would during the campaign....just not on your timetable and in the order that you see fit. And yes, you should continue to prod and pressure him (as well as members of congress who are too easily forgotten and/or forgiven...although they are a big part of getting your agenda realized)....and "Make him do it"....because he has encouraged that. Since he is not going to ask for your vote for another 4 years, I think it would be fair to give him more time to get done what you didn't believe he would do, which is why you didn't support him initially, and for most of the time.

[johnaries]

50. Thank you for your honest and thoughtful post.

There are so many posts that are simply anti-Obama or "Obama-bot" that I am glad to see a thoughtful and candid post like yours.

I voted for Edwards in the primaries, although Obama was my second choice. After the Edwards affair was revealed, I felt very betrayed. Elizabeth forgave him and normally that would be enough for me - but in this case he was running in one of the most important elections in recent history and he knew his affair would jeopardize the election. But that feeling of betrayal cannot compare to what my LGBT brothers and sisters must be feeling.

There are several aspects of Obama's policies that I am unhappy with. I would love to be able to discuss them intelligently here on my favorite forum, but I know that in the current atmosphere it would become a "Obama-bashing feeding frenzy" rather than an honest and intelligent discussion.

But despite these policies that I oppose, he has done many wonderful things in the short time he has been in office and I see many more wonderful things coming down the road. Overall, I will say that I am proud to have him as my President.

I know all of my LGBT brothers and sisters are tired of being told "be patient", but I do know this: the battle to get civil rights for everyone will be one of the hardest battles Obama fights. It's unfair, but there is just too much homophobia in our society - as I'm sure you all know only too well. What I think - or at least hope - he is doing is working to build more support in more areas for the battle. Old arguments and prejudices die hard. I know this is frustrating for many, although I can't possibly know just how frustrating it is. All I can say is that it will be hard and that we must win this battle decisively, once and for all.

I appreciate your feelings and I support you. What I will not abide is some of the indiscriminate bashing I have seen in some other threads.

I hope we can work and fight together. It won't be easy, and I know it will be harder for you than me. But I am on your side.
:hug:

[Forkboy]

53. K&R

[Neecy]

58. It's funny, isn't it?

The gay community, so disrespectful and racist according to some here, voted in unprecedented numbers for Mr. Obama.

And yet people here seem to think that we have no right to criticize him AT ALL. We'll take your votes, now shut up! You helped to elect him, now you're racists!

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?


Data available thus far on voting in heavily gay precincts suggest the gay vote for Obama was at an unprecedented high. In the last several presidential elections, the percentage of LGB voters supporting the Democrat has hovered around 70 to 75 percent. But Election Day voting was much stronger:

—In heavily gay Provincetown, Mass., 87 percent of voters supported Obama, compared to only 11 percent for McCain, and 2 percent for others or no votes. Massachusetts overall voted 62 percent for Obama, and 36 percent for McCain.

—While 61 percent of Californians supported Obama over 37 percent for McCain, 85 percent of heavily gay San Francisco supported Obama—versus 13 percent for McCain and two percent for others.

—Fifty-five percent of voters in Pennsylvania supported Obama over 45 percent for McCain, but in Philadelphia's heavily gay 2nd and 5th wards, 83 percent of voters supported Obama.

—In heavily gay Dupont Circle ( Precinct 15 ) in Washington, D.C., Obama won 89 percent of the vote.

—In the heavily gay precinct 1233 in Dallas, 63 percent of voters supported Obama, while 57 percent of the entire city did so. Fifty-five percent of the state supported McCain.

—Chicago's heavily gay 44th Ward went 86 percent for Obama over 13 percent for McCain.

A Harris poll online survey conducted Oct. 20-27 with 231 self-identified LGBT 'likely voters' predicted 81 percent of LGBT voters favored Obama while 16 percent favored McCain. A similar poll in August had shown 68 percent favored Obama, with 10 percent leaning toward McCain.

http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/gay/lesbian/news/ARTICLE.php?AID=19735

[LWolf]

59. It's not asking too much

to expect politicians to earn support by their actions.

Of course, I've been a harsher critic, for longer, than you.

[Tarheel_Dem]

61. How do I feel about (MR.) Bowden?

I won't go there, since I wouldn't want to be as disrepectful to you as you've been to the leader of the free world, and on a democratic site no less.:puke:

[WillParkinson]

63. Disrespectful...

I find it quite interesting that referring to the President as Mr. Obama is considered more disrespectful than calling him just "Obama" or "O". Mr. is a term of respect. I try to respect everyone, if possible. I seldom use first names of people I do not know, and I always try not to call people by their last name.

I notice that no one called me for not saying, "Mr. Vice President", "Mr. Senator", or "Ms. Governor".

I feel that people who refer to him by his last name alone, on a Democratic website no less, are far more disrespectful than calling him Mr. Obama.

He is the President of the United States, correct? Yes, he is. In that case, shouldn't everyone here be referring to him as Mr. President or President Obama?

As for the rest, I have admitted that yes, I have been impatient. After 30 years of waiting 6 months is not that much more. Nor will another 6 months be.

Will I stop calling him on things I disagree with? No. But I am willing to try to be more patient. It's hard for one man to undo years of mistrust of politicians.

And, finally, I am intrigued by the fact that people put up blinders because of a perceived slight, rather than take note of the message that, yes, the man deserves a chance to do the job he was elected for, and keep the promises that he's made.

[ZombieHorde]

62. DADT is currently being worked on I believe.

Change is coming, Obama has shown some leadership GLBT issues, but the change is slow and some people are loosing their careers because of discrimination.

[RBInMaine]

64. No one can be all things to all people all the time. Think on balance. He's better than McCain.

[Splinter Cell]

65. Why should I give a damn?

It's insane how many people on here cry, bitch, and sob about the fact that Obama can't do everything they want RIGHT FUCKIN' NOW. "Oh, well I wanted Kucinich." Good for you. He had a snowball's chance in hell of winning the primary let alone a general election. A Clinton admin. would look very much like Obama's.

Some of you folks need to come to grips with the fact that you have to win in order to have a say at all. It's that simple. If we nominate a candidate that can't win, then we won't win.

Barack Obama was our strongest candidate, and the strongest leader out of the bunch. Stop bitching. He hasn't been in office a year and people are already going on about his re-election chances.

You can have the thoughtful, intelligent democratic president, or you can have another GOP jackass. Those are your two and ONLY choices. Think about it.

[Forkboy]

67. Try the decaf.

[Splinter Cell]

68. Try the GOP

Vote for people like Palin and Mittens then you might have something to actually bitch about.

[Forkboy]

69. Try living without equal rights like the OP does.

[Splinter Cell]

70. OK

I'm sure that the GOP would be happy to give you "equal rights". The OP has two choices: Keep working for what he believes and have faith in the good man we elected as president, OR turn your back on him and bitch and wait for the Rethuglicans to retake power, in which case "equal rights" wouldn't happen even AFTER hell freezes over.

[WillParkinson]

71. You also have a choice...

Learn to read what I wrote.

I said that the man deserved the opportunity to do the job he was elected for. I as much as said that perhaps I was expecting too much too soon.

I also said that between Mr. Obama an Mr. McCain there was no real choice, it was obvious Mr. Obama would be the one who gets my vote simply because he was the best candidate, and I could not possibly see a positive outcome for a Mr. McCain and Ms. Palin presidency.

I apologize if I sound harsh, but too many people in this thread did not bother to read what I said, they only took away from it what they wanted. Yes, I am disappointed in some of the things that have occurred so far, and yes I have been and will continue to be vocal about it, but I want Mr. Obama do succeed. In fact, I want him to succeed so stunningly that the Republicans are shut down at every turn as America prospers without them.

[Forkboy]

72. How about instead of calling it "bitching" you show a little compassion and understanding?

You're going to bed with your rights intact tonight. They aren't. Try understanding why they might be a little bummed out that someone who claimed he would be a "fierce advocate" for them but has been anything but so far. Try not encouraging people to leave the Democratic Party because they make you uncomfortable in their expectations that the President of the United States would actually give a shit about them. Try supporting them instead of telling them to basically fuck off and get over it, and just accept being treated like shit because hey, that's how the Repubs would treat them.

[Egnever]

77. Who is treating them like shit?

Show me another president that has been as vocal about GLBT rights.

When you show me that I'll start listening closer to the bitching about not getting the what they want right now! Or about how the most outspoken president ever in favor of GLBT rights is treating thekm like shit.

[Forkboy]

78. Look at this thread. Look at your own posts.

And I note you call it bitching, too. People like you who claim you stand for equality, just so long as everyone who doesn't have it shuts up in the meantime, are a joke. With friends like you....

[Egnever]

80. Back at ya

People like you who think you deserve to come ahead of the good of everyone else are laughable.

Its president of the United states not president of the GLBT. The US has a ton on its plate at the moment.

I notice you cant list me a president who has been more vocal in their support. Telling that is.

[Forkboy]

82. Your support for equality is heartwarming.

People like you who think you deserve to come ahead of the good of everyone else are laughable.

No, I think people who don't have EQUAL right deserve to be EQUAL, not ahead. What's funny is that you get upset at people because you see them as wanting to be put ahead of others, then defend Obama putting others ahead of them. You treat gays like a lot of whites used to treat "good negroes". Sure, we support your equal rights, when we get around to it. In the meantime, take that seat at the back of the bus. Telling, that is. :hi:

[Egnever]

84. Yes Mr. Morally superior

I think the needs of the many take precedence over the needs of the few. Shocking belief I know.

I understand that the man hasn't had time to breathe since getting into office for the pile of shit he was left with he has to wade through. There is now talk of his staff getting burned out there have been so many emergency situations to deal with. And somehow i understand with so many dire issues to contend with he has not had the time yet to focus on GLBT issues as perhaps he or you are I might like him to. What a terrible person I am.

You still cant tell me a president that has been more vocal in their support though can you? Hell i bent you cant tell me a candidate that has had anything close to a shot at the nomination that has either. Yet its just not enough unless he drops everything else and comes up with an instant fix that he cant possibly come up with cause it takes congress to put it on his desk.

What a joke your posts on this are.

[Forkboy]

86. At what point is it ok to criticize him?

First gay people needed to shut up because it was only a month. Then three months. Now it's six months. So, when can they actually speak up for their rights without perturbing you? 8 months? A year? The whole first term?

You still cant tell me a president that has been more vocal in their support though can you?

No, I can't. The fact that every president before him has sucked ass on this issue doesn't make his half-hearted approach to the issue any better. If he didn't want people to expect him to be a fierce advocate he shouldn't have told them he would be one. HE took on that mantle, no one gave it to him. Now he needs to be what he said he'd be, and so far he hasn't, as even you admit. Show me that "fierce advocacy".

Yet its just not enough unless he drops everything else and comes up with an instant fix..

Bullshit strawman. Not only do I realize that he can't solve this himself, but I don't expect him to "drop everything else". I've never said anything of the sort, here on DU or anywhere else. He can, however, actually use that bully pulpit he stands behind every damn day and LEAD on the issue. Out of all the problems burning those workers out this is probably the easiest to rectify. It's a Hell of a lot easier than solving the economy and ending the wars, and JUST AS IMPORTANT...except to you, because you already have those 1000+ plus rights that gays don't have. Sleep tight...they can't.

What a joke your posts on this are.

What a joke your half-assed, tepid support for equal right is.

[Egnever]

87. Who said they cant speak up for their rights?

Please do.

You started this sub thread by implying Obama was treating them like shit. You call that criticism?
I call it bullshit. You don't like that, well tough titties. You can try and pretend this is about gays not being allowed to speak loudly for their rights all you want but thats the strawman if any are in our little sub thread here.

I am all for pushing for equal rights I try to help with it when I can. What I am not for is playing your game of Obama is treating Gays like shit. He isn't and you know it. He just hasn't had the time to address it fully and you know that as well.

He has held luncheons with GLBT groups in the white house for gods sake. You know damn well its something Obama wants to see done. Put the pressure where it belongs on the congress critters and get off the back of the guy who is already on your side.

[Forkboy]

88. "You started this sub thread by implying Obama was treating them like shit."

You sure it was me that started this subthread? Or was I responding to someone else?

I call it bullshit. You don't like that, well tough titties.

Great. Do you need a cigarette now?

You can try and pretend this is about gays not being allowed to speak loudly for their rights all you want but thats the strawman if any are in our little sub thread here.

Nope. Not a strawman. The person I responded to in this thread was basically telling gays to shut up and deal. Quotes like "It's insane how many people on here cry, bitch, and sob about the fact that Obama can't do everything they want RIGHT FUCKIN' NOW" and "Stop bitching" don't tell me that person really understands what the hell gay people are trying to live with in this country. It's a cruel game to imply that gays need to just accept not having equal rights until they do. Standing up for equal right is not bitching, and anyone saying that in relation to gay rights is a phony pos. And THAT'S what got me into this thread.

What I am not for is playing your game of Obama is treating Gays like shit. He isn't and you know it.

I never said he was. What I have said, and will continue to say, is that he hasn't even come close to being the fierce advocate for gay rights HE claimed he'd be. Do you really think a damn luncheon means much of anything to every day gay people who still can't get married, still can't make life or death decisions for their partners in hospitals, etc? Yeah, the things he's done ARE positive steps, and are better than nothing. But don't act like he's been handing out gold ingots to the gay community. If you didn't have equal rights how much would a luncheon really mean to you? Seriously, think about it. It would mean something, I'd wager, but not much, especially if you were part of a group that has been systematically taken advantage of by candidate after candidate after candidate. What I would like to see from fellow Dems and Liberals is a little understanding of what these people are going through every single day, not derision, not empty words of support, and certainly not telling them to stop bitching and get over it. Is understanding really that hard for us?

Put the pressure where it belongs on the congress critters and get off the back of the guy who is already on your side.

The motto is "The Buck Stops Here", not "The Buck Stops With Those Guys Over There". You can bet your ass I've put pressure on congress, and will continue to do so. How many people still write hand written letters? I do that, I call, I email, and I talk about it here as well, because, as this thread indicates, gays are struggling to find real allies even among the Democratic ranks. Is some of the criticism just venting? Sure, but can't you understand why the need to vent even exists in the first place?

On edit - I see what quote of mine you were talking about in relation to Obama treating them like shit, so let me clarify. I didn't mean to imply he IS treating them like shit (though it could be a lot better). I was saying that gay people have a right to expect him NOT to treat them like shit. I hope that makes sense.

[Colobo]

66. I'm sure that Obama will make you proud by the end of his term.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Prism]

89. The responses in this thread are so tragically instructive

I really cannot believe this is the Democratic Party.

I've noticed the venom towards the LGBT community has been concentrated and purified during the past week or two. Did one of us eat a puppy on live national television? Is there YouTube video?

Where is all this coming from?

And why are people so vigorously shameless in expressing these attitudes? Is there a special political calendar that marks down when it's open season?

I hope we retain Congress in 2010. I have a feeling if midterms are a trainwreck, we'll somehow be responsible.

[tomg]

91. I was struck by the same thing. nt

[VMI Dem]

96. I have noticed the same thing in my short time here.

I am surprised at the negative reaction many LGBT issue related threads receive.

[PVnRT]

97. Where is it all coming from?

Simple: a lot of people wanted Obama to win, invested all of their hopes and dreams into him, and now defend those by sliming and insulting anyone who questions them. They cannot tolerate the idea that maybe their chosen guy isn't loved and adored by everyone without question.

[leftofthedial]

90. meet the new boss, same as the old boss

except that he's the good cop, while cheney was the bad cop

[cali]

92. that's not what the OP said.

And no, Obama is neither a bush or cheney clone except in certain delusional little heads.

[leftofthedial]

99. that's what I said.

I didn't say "clone." A clone would be another bad cop.

Nothing of substance is changing or will change.

[reflection]

95. Tried to rec this, but it was too old.

So I'll kick it instead. Good post.

[paulk]

98. Obama is keeping an arms length from the whole

"gay" thing. It seems that Bill Clinton's negative experience in '92, and Obama's fear that the same will damage his Presidency, is coloring his judgment.

It's not 1992 anymore - there is a whole new generation of people out there, younger people whose attitudes are far more pro-gay than they were 17 years ago - and Obama's biggest miscalculation is that these are the people who won him the primary and helped put him in the White House. These people are his base and he's running a real risk by alienating them.