I am sorry but I am coming to the conclusion that Gates actually profiled the Cop as well

[Perky]

I do not object to the idea that the cop reflexively profiled Gates on first sight,.
I do not reject the notion that racial profiling exists , that it wrong or that it needs to be confronted effectively when it occurs,


The Cop was responding to a Breaking and Entering call, had his adrenalin pumping and did not know what the was walking into

The cop was well within his rights to question Gates presence, to be aggressive and intimidating and demand ID. That has nothing to do with race however, . Cops are trained to respond in ways that protect themselves from harm. He was aggressive instinctively not because he was black but because he was responding to a breaking and entering call.

Once ID was provided it should have been the end of it.


So what happened next is the crux of the matter and what I now find distressing

Here is what Gates has said in an interview: which you can hear for yourself here:
http://www.sirius.com/oprahradio

And here is how Ben Smith at Poliitco disusses the content of the interview

He also gives an account of how the situation escalated: Gates said he sensed a series of unspoken slights in the way Crowley treated him -- demanding he step outside, assuming he was an intruder, not the homeowner, and even after he produced ID -- "I interrupted him, I said, 'That’s enough. This is my house you have my IDs. I want your name and your badge numbers. I said I’m filing a complaint." "Just because a black man answers the door….treat him with respect," Gates said. "Don’t go presuming."

"It was a battle of wills about me stepping on to that front porch. It was like a throwdown," he said, comparing it to a B-Movie. "It was a war of wills between two people about rights."

Gates said the episode had a purpose.

"Often we’re chosen for events for larger reasons, and I think I was chosen to be arrested in my own home so that I would start to devote my considerable resources toward a problem that plagues American society and plagues the criminal justice system – and that is both racial profiling and arbitrary and capricious actions by rogue cops," he said, adding later that he planned to produce a documentary on the subject.

Bluntly it sounds to me, like Gates profiled the cop as well. And things escalated from there.

[democracy1st]

1. the POTUS should have never used "stupidly" when referring to the police

dept's action on a case he knows nothing about

[uponit7771]

11. FACT NOT IN DISPUTE: Gates showed his ID and verified he lived in home and STILL got arrested!!

[Perky]

14. The question is why did he get arrested

read the OP with an open mind

[freddie mertz]

38. I think the president said it best.

n/t

[quiller4]

109. Agree. n/t

[Perky]

241. deleted message

[BurtWorm]

40. He got arrested because he didn't 'behave' the way the cop would have liked.

Are cops beahvior police? Is attitude subject to the law? The cop was an asshole. He should have backed down and left after it was established that he'd been called on a false alarm. It's not his job to enforce good attitude toward cops. Your OP makes this painfully clear that that's what was going on here.

[freddie mertz]

144. That seems to be the opinion of the OP.

Who seems to insist that all or most of the blame falls on Gates' shoulders.

[BurtWorm]

183. That's not my opinion. My opinion is that the cop got his feelings hurt

and like a lot of thin-skinned cops, used that as an excuse to arrest the person who hurt his poor little sensitive feelings.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

238. Gate's mistake was not thanking Massah after receiving his butt whoopin'.

[mkultra]

I think the point is that there wasnt enough reason

like you said, once ID was provided, the officer should have hit the road.

[Leo The Cleo]

173. Open Mind Means The Black Guy Started It . . . LOL

I see where you are going.

[Fire1]

203. The AA community knows very well why he got arrested. n/t

[DeltaLitProf]

224. He was arrested for using a tone of voice the policeman didn't like

In America that is nothing anyone should be arrested for.

[democracy1st]

28. FACT is these media reports are all hearsay that changes,so why say anything so bias

about a case you know nothing about?

[Solomon]

115. crap. I gotta keep saying this. All the evidence you need to

make a conclusion is right there in the cops report. That is the charging document. Charging documents are drafted with great care to support the charge. If the charging document doesn't do it, then you can't bring in other evidence to try and sustain it. The report shows that the cop continued even though he knew Gates lived there. This idea that nobody knows what happened is a bunch of crap. The only thing else you want to know is what did Gates say to the cop which is entirely irrelevant. He was arrested AFTER he proved he lived there.

It amazes me that people are so hardheaded on the "race" aspect of this case, that they are willing to throw every right they have under the constitution right out the window. Don't want the black guy to win any case in which he cries "racism" because everybody wants to pretend that it has nothing to do with racism.

In the meantime, you are maintaining the position that this is a police state. That no one can oever question the police while not breaking the law in their own home. I saw one guy post with great belligerancy that the cops can arrest anyone at any time anywhere for disorderly conduct as lonfg as another officer supports it. And this is the so-called "left wing".

[Political Heretic]

133. He didn't get arrested for not being the resident. He got arrested for being obnoxious to a cop.

That happens to most people who are obnoxious to cops that I'm aware of, including me and I'm white. Now, I think that's wrong and I think that cops regularly go on authoritarian power trips. But that's a slightly different issue than what some are making it.

That said, I'd still agree that the police acted stupidly as Obama said, though I think politically he created an unnecessary political distraction for himself by saying it. But there was a lot of race baiting going on by gates, according to the report, and according to gates' own words yesterday as reported on CNN.

Basically, I think the cop got sick of being insulted and called a racist by someone yelling and hurling obscenities at him, and given the opportunity, took the bait and arrested the man in an overreaction. There's poor behavior on all sides on this one.

[Teaser]

135. Which is an invalid arrest.

Therefore the cop was wrong, end of discussion.

[Political Heretic]

141. I agree, the cop was wrong. Make no mistake. But calling him "racist" Crowley and stuff is weak

He was wrong, that does not immediately make him a racist... he who is an expert on racial profiling and teaches classes on the subject of how to avoid racial stereotyping, according to reports on MSNBC and CNN yesterday.

[Teaser]

146. I don't know if he's a racist or not.

Whether or not he's a racist has nothing to do with whether or not his actions were racist.
Because racism is a systemic bias toward a particular ethnocultural group. Bigotry, on the other hand, is what individuals exhibit in their behavior. Would this entire situation have gotten to this point if Gates had been white? I can't demonstrably show it, but my intuition says that it would not have. The arrest may indeed be racist, the cop may not be.

Whatever the case, though, he is not a good cop. Good cops don't wrongfully arrest citizens. Which is where the entire matter stands for me.

[fishwax]

180. being obnoxious = not knowing your place

I'm not sure you're right that *most* people who are obnoxious wind up arrested, but it's certainly true that white people have been arrested for being obnoxious to the police. On plenty of those occasions, too, it's a matter of putting the person in their place--the difference, of course, is the place one is supposed to knows.

So it might be true that anyone can be arrested for being obnoxious to the police, but it's also true that what police power would think of as obnoxious coming from a person of color is different than what police power would think of as obnoxious from a white person.

[berniebern]

138. It's unclear whether he showed an ID that contained his address

Harvard ID's don't have an address; therefore further verification is needed. Gates says he also showed a drivers' license, but the police report does not mention a drivers' license. It's a he-said, she-said situation.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

237. Good for Obama shining a light on the injustices AA's face every day in America.

[Bluerthanblue]

23. screw that- the police WERE stupid in this instance- calling a spade

a spade may not 'feel' good, but it's Pres. Obama's right.

It's interesting to hear all the cries from "pro-police" spokespeople about how "offended" they are by Pres.O's statement,
Too bad that same sense of empathy isn't extended to Prof. Gates- who was FALSELY assumed to be a criminal- and then arrested because of his reaction to being treated as if he WAS a criminal. A Police officer's job is to KEEP THE PEACE. Sgt. Crowley's behaviour in this situation is NOT a good example of how to respond.
This Sgt. Crowley's JOB- his avocation- he's supposed to be able to control himself, and is trained to diffuse situations JUST LIKE THIS. Power is a dangerous thing. Who polices the police?
Sgt. Crowley did not demonstrate his ability to handle this situation effectively. Pres. O is spot on. It was a stupid- (foolish) choice to arrest this man, and Crowley's arrogant statement that he would NEVER apologize only magnifies his incompetence.

:shrug:

[democracy1st]

31. why would you call police actions stupidly when you know nothing about a case?

[freddie mertz]

39. Because what they did was stupid?

n/t

[Perky]

43. when specifically did they start to act stupidly?

[freddie mertz]

47. As the president said

The stupid act was the arrest.

Gates had established his identity and was in his own home.

The handcuffs were an extra touch of bad judgment, IMHO.

[mkultra]

48. When they arrested a man at his own home after verify identity

Their duties where concluded. Anything beyond that was personal.

[Perky]

56. So up until that point, the cops did nothing wrong?

[freddie mertz]

62. This is not the issue

The arrest is the issue addressed by the president, which prompted this whole "discussion."

And he made it very clear that this was what he was talking about.

[mkultra]

201. maybe maybe not.

What we know for sure is that it was this point in which the law was broken for the first time. And it was done by the police.

[Bluerthanblue]

64. why do you assume that nothing is "known" about the case?

I know something about the case, and so did Pres.O when he made the comment-

Why do you feel the need to defend the indefensible?

Crowley had the CHOICE to diffuse the situation, or to make it worse. HE had the POWER in the situation, and he abused it.
It was an incredibly stupid decision on his part. He was ON THE JOB- doing what he supposedly is trained and 'good' at. Gates was responding as a civilian in his own home, who felt wronged, offended, and probably afraid- A bigger question in this situation is that had Gates not been a "prominent" successful African American, but rather just a regular 'Joe' like me, would this kind of over-reaction on the part of Crowley even make the news? Abuse of power is WRONG. Calling it out is not only right, it's critical to maintaining a healthy society.

:shrug:

[freddie mertz]

75. I guess it just has to be the black guy's fault.

n/t

[democracy1st]

77. because the Pres keeps saying he doesn't know anything about the case

[BklnDem75]

85. Really? Got a quote?

Never mind. I have the quotes right here:

"I don’t know — not having been there and not seeing all the facts — what role race played in that, but I think it’s fair to say, number one, any of us would be pretty angry,"

"Number two, that the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody when there was already proof that they were in their own home,"

Seems like you got your quotes mixed up, or you took someone's bad information and ran with it.

[Bluerthanblue]

99. facts...

People aren't pissed at Pres.O because of the facts, (he rarely messes up with facts).

It's Pres.O's opinion that is making some uncomfortable i believe. The choice of the word "stupid" was excellent IMO- The move wasn't 'ignorant' it was really just plain 'stupid'.

He offered his opinion of the situation, calling it stupid- (and I agree with him)- those who don't hold the same opinion would rather he be silenced.

:shrug:

[Bluerthanblue]

96. no, he doesn't- he said he didn't know "ALL THE FACTS"

and he gave his opinion on the situation when asked by a reporter at a press conference. He didn't hold a press confrence to discuss this issue, he didn't offer the statement out of the blue- he was asked, and he gave his honest opinion on the situation, being very clear that he wasn't speaking as a result of having fully investigated the matter- He wasn't 'wading into' other people's business as Crowley has suggested- he was asked a question, he answered it to the best of his knowledge and didn't make any statements regarding the 'facts'- that are untrue. Did he?

Saying that someone acted stupidly is an OPINION. Everyone has a right to that, even the President of the US. You may not share his opinion, you may not like it, but that's where it becomes your problem. How you deal with that is your choice.


:shrug:

[EFerrari]

211. "We don't have the facts" is a standard line. It avoids all the nasty facts we do have. n/t

[yodermon]

147. because the charges were dropped and the city apologized.

There is no "case" unless a lawsuit is filed.

[pocoloco]

67. How about Piss Ignorant?

Gates pulled him on like a boot.

[Bluerthanblue]

104. sorry

i don't get what you are trying to say-

:shrug:

[AuntPatsy]

105. I for one am thrilled that he did, this is a very real problem that no one really wants

to talk about, perhaps this is part of the change he promised us, a nice start,

[Fire1]

110. I disagree. I'm very glad that he provided an apt

description of an ongoing problem that needs to be addressed. Secondly, had he been a white president I doubt if reporters would have even asked such a question.

[merh]

208. POTUS said he did not know "all of the facts"

he didn't say he did not know the facts.

You don't know all the facts.

I want a president that stands up for the rights of the citizens. You should too.

[sailor65]

2. Finally, a rational OP on this

Thanks and rec, although based on the count i'd say you have some anonymous detractors.

[Moochy]

95. Not Anonymous, just hidden by management

I unrec'd this post, because its an apologia and ignores the facts at hand. Trying to define profiling as something that a black citizen would do to a white cop is the most vapid and blatantly racist bullshit i've seen around here about this issue.

[Quantess]

206. I Unrecommended it.

There, now I'm no longer anonymous.

[Raineyb]

221. So did I.

And I make no bones about it. Unrec for a bullshit OP.

[cleveramerican]

3. I take the President at his word.

He didn't have all the facts and he is biased toward his friend.

[MUAD_DIB]

18. President Obama admitted that hemay be biased before he made his statement.

I don't fault either Obama's or Governor Patick's statement on the matter.

[Quantess]

205. You're still here?

Ugh. :eyes:

[dave29]

4. Profiled the cop??? Are you serious?

The man has a gun, and is in his house asking him to prove he lives there. He had every right to be angry. PLEASE stop defending the actions reported in a case that was DROPPED.

[Perky]

6. I am absolutely serious

[uponit7771]

12. FACT NOT IN DISPUTE: Gates showed his ID and verified he lived in home and STILL got arrested!!

[Perky]

16. and why was he arrested?

[uponit7771]

24. From his porch?!?! Crowley said he was acting "tumolutuous"...some bullshit ass'd excuse that later

...got dropped.

From the pic of Gates arrest you can TELL he was in his house THEN the cops asked for him to come outside (which he should NOT have done) then Gates got arrested.

[Dawgs]

26. He was arrested because the cop wasn't smart enough to walk away?

Why aren't you asking yourself why the charges were dropped?

[Perky]

29. Because it was not worth pursuing,

They realized Gates was being a hothead, but that is not a crime.

[mkultra]

50. and thus shouldnt have been arrested.

Seems pretty clear to you too i guess.

[Bluerthanblue]

100. BINGO-

you nailed it.

[freddie mertz]

51. So if there was no crime...

Then is was a "stupid act" to arrest him.

End of controversy.

Back to healthcare now?

Or are we going to keep stroking the Republican talking points?

[panader0]

5. What I don't get is the lady who called the cops.

Didn't she recognize her neighbor in the middle of the day? Did she and Gates have neighbor issues?

[dgibby]

7. She wasn't his neighbor.

According to the police report, she was walking by on her way to work. She saw what she believed to be a break-in, called the police, remained on scene, gave her statement.

[Perky]

8. Good job

[uponit7771]

9. SOOO!! You NORMALY don't profile people who walk in your home without permission?!?!?

[Perky]

13. He did not walk into his house,

Gates opened the door. from what I understand.

[uponit7771]

22. DAMN!! That's even worse!! How many people ROBBING a house come to the door?!?!?!?!

[EFerrari]

213. Yes, he did walk into his home without permission.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. The cop is a paid public servant; Gates is not

[Starry Messenger]

15. (facepalm)

[cboy4]

17. Yet another day when I thought I'd heard everything

:eyes:

[AspenRose]

All this twisting logic around has made me hungry for pretzels instead of popcorn for a change

We need a pretzel smiley. :popcorn:

[Perky]

25. Yeah sure,, but it out to be a smiley choking on one.

[cboy4]

32. Actually, you deserve your own

[AspenRose]

36. If anything's choking here, it's your hypothesis

Cops are the ones who profile. Not the other way around. It is not illegal or wrong for someone to use discernment when they feel they have a legitimate reason for a complaint; they have the right to do that.

And since this *particular* cop has had diversity training and even teaches it, he should have known better.

He was wrong. Period.

[cboy4]

65. I'm almost getting to the point of being speechless by the amount of bullshit

being tossed out in support of that A-hole cop.

[Moochy]

106. Absolutely Skewers the OP's fallacious attempt at redefinition of "profiling"

K&R this post

[Moochy]

69. The forces of Racism are highly motivated

they just cant stop showing everyone their racism.

[AspenRose]

81. Why is it the phrase "chip on their shoulder" only seems to surface when talking about blacks?

I don't think I've ever seen that phrase used in tandem with any other group of people.

Ever notice that?

[freddie mertz]

107. "Chip on shoulder" = "Uppity black"

n/t

[Scout]

175. i've had that phrase used to me, a white woman, about feminist issues several times...

and i've heard it used to other people as well ... all white.

maybe you need to get out more.

[windbreeze]

191. oh, no no no....my dad used to say my brother had a chip on his

shoulder...we aren't cops, and we are why-tees..in fact I heard that phrase quite a bit as a kid...anyone who didn't behave just so, had a chip on their shoulder...I think the term is used more back east...than it is elsewhere...?? wb

[DarthDem]

Enh, Not So Sure About the Profiling

. . . but if DU posters can't tell from Gates' comments above that he's a trouble-seeking hothead, then there are some critical thinking skills missing somewhere.

[Perky]

21. AT a mimmunum...DING DING DING

[Starry Messenger]

34. "A trouble-seeking hothead"??

OMFG.

[DarthDem]

44. Did You Read His Comments?

Does he sound like he was looking for trouble and that he's a little hot under the collar? If not, please explain why not. I'm not even talking about the police report, now, but his later comments.

[Starry Messenger]

55. No, it does not sound like he was looking for trouble.

Why would he be looking to make trouble with a police officer? With a gun? He did not look at all pleased to be in handcuffs nor was he smiling in his mugshot.

[DarthDem]

71. Fair Enough

I'm sure he wasn't pleased to be in handcuffs, and the fact that he wasn't grinning like a fool doesn't really bear on my point either way. What disturbs me are his post-incident comments, quoted above.

"I interrupted him, I said, 'That’s enough. This is my house you have my IDs. I want your name and your badge numbers. I said I’m filing a complaint." "Just because a black man answers the door….treat him with respect," Gates said. "Don’t go presuming."

"It was a battle of wills about me stepping on to that front porch. It was like a throwdown," he said, comparing it to a B-Movie. "It was a war of wills between two people about rights."

I won't even bother to quote the "rogue cop" nonsense.

This from a Harvard professor and a scholar in African-American affairs. Sure sounds like he had a chip on his shoulder and was looking for trouble to me. But if it seems easier to regard him as some kind of racism-uncovering hero, well, I guess opinions differ.

[Starry Messenger]

87. I never said he was a "racism-uncovering hero" at all.

"A chip on his shoulder" is a very conservative gloss on a few sentences. Sure, he made it sound a little dramatic, but it had to be a really humiliating experience. I don't blame him. Sounds like typical guy talk to me, honestly. People talking about how disturbed and distressed they are about his comments put little points on my ears.

[DarthDem]

90. That's Fine

Agree to disagree, and thanks for the discussion. I hope you're right and Gates was just blustering.

[freddie mertz]

93. Good posts (and LOVE the Bizarro code!)

Which is quite appropriate to the present discussion!

Keep up the good.

[Starry Messenger]

101. Thanks! n/t

[freddie mertz]

58. Amazing ain't it?

n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

102. guess this is just another

lesson that it isn't just "Republicans" who don't get it

sad.

[dave29]

61. how about a tired intellectual, having arrived from a long overseas flight

finding his door is not working well (due to a previous break in attempt). Next thing he knows the cops are in his house demanding he identify himself.

Trouble-seeking hot head? Give me a break.

[Raineyb]

131. I see evidence of missing critical thinking skills

It's all over your vacuous post.

I think you win the prize for the most ignorant, stupidest, moronic comment on this story yet.

[paulk]

194. expound on the "evidence" then

seriously - if you're going to trash a post the way you have, you at least owe it to the OP to explain why you think that way.

All you've given the OP, and others reading this thread, is a string of insults.

[Raineyb]

197. I don't owe you shit

I've explained in countless threads ad nauseam why the officer was the one who's wrong. If you don't bother to read it that's not really my problem.

[Name removed]

198. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

200. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishwax]

168. "trouble-seeking hothead"

:wow:

[EFerrari]

212. Yeah, there are. Yours. Gates has zero history.

[dgibby]

19. Here's the copy of the police report.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/download/2009/0720/20120754.pdf

[high density]

60. Very interesting

The cop was "led to believe" quite soon into the confrontation that Gates was lawfully in his residence but escalated the situation because Gates was yelling at him. The cop drew the argument out into the open and then arrested him.

[DevonRex]

112. Being an ex-LE professional, I can tell you what is missing from the report.

What happens between the time the front door was opened and the time that Crowley says he was walking through the foyer toward the front door?

He details what the professor said and did (supposedely) yet leaves out the part about entering the home. I can tell you that omissions have as much meaning as what IS included in the report.

[high density]

20. Profiled??

I think Gates was pissed off at the situation and yelled at the cops. The cops ultimately took the wrong course of action and that's confirmed by the charges being dropped so quickly.

[freddie mertz]

27. Mika on Morning Joe agrees

Which is probably the worst thing I can say about this.

I understand why Mika believes this.

She is a right-wing shill, and her basic presumption is that the experience of racism is usually black folk's fault (why can't they just stop complaining?)

What I still don't get is this:

Where does all this racism-denial come from on a supposedly "Democratic" site?

[Perky]

30. WHooo.... whoi is denying racism????

[freddie mertz]

37. Mika was.

n/t

[DarthDem]

33. Your Premise Is A False Construct

I am ultraleft on social issues. I have never been accused of racism in my life, by anyone, and I have no trouble with racial issues, and never have.

However, Skip Gates acted like a fool in this instance. I met the man, once, many years ago, and I can assure you that he's not a mild-mannered sort. He's very assertive, and that's his right. However, you don't cause a scene on your front porch and get in a cop's face and call the cop a racist. You just don't. Why is this so hard for people to understand, and why is anyone who points this out automatically racially insensitive?

The police officer, Sgt. Crowley, overreacted with the arrest. And Gates (who, as far as I know, has not even disputed the police report, let alone had a witness come forward refuting the report) acted like a clown. Any racism present? Nope. Just silliness all the way around. AND THAT INCLUDES GATES. My word.

[freddie mertz]

35. You might even call him "uppity."

n/t

[DarthDem]

41. If I Were A Racist, Right?

Thanks for idiotically proving my point.

[freddie mertz]

49. Gates acted as if he had rights in his own home

Which is "uppity" behavior.

But then, you know that.

[DarthDem]

57. Still Failing!

He doesn't have the right to berate a police officer. He just doesn't. The only pertinent question is whether he should have been arrested for it. (The answer is no - - cooler heads should have prevailed, and would have except that Crowley outranked the other officers.)

I'm white; if I had done this, or any other white person had, it would have made absolutely no news whatsoever, because it's a fairly well-known fact that you really shouldn't angrily berate people, law enforcement officers or not.

But go ahead and cry racism here, hurting the cause of true improvement in race relations by raising the specter of racism where it's not relevant. Foolish.

[mkultra]

63. Actually, ive seen much different

Ive seen white folks berate cops up and down when they are in the right. I, on the other hand, have never seen a black man do it in which it didn't result in an arrest.

[freddie mertz]

70. So if he shouldn't have been arrested

What is the issue?

The issue of Gates' response is only pertinent if it legitimizes the arrest.

[DarthDem]

79. The Issue Is . . .

. . . that many people here, and probably well-intentioned souls, are demonizing this police officer and beatifying Gates. And a bunch of people are talking about racism. That's the issue.

This was a misunderstanding that blew out of all proportion when two people - - Crowley and Gates - - failed to de-escalate. Naturally, that makes the white cop a racist for many people, perhaps because it's an easy conclusion. But Gates' behavior was the ultimate cause of this; he had the last clear chance to avoid the whole mess, by not escalating the confrontation.

[freddie mertz]

84. The cop is not a "demon," he "acted stupidly"

And to say that "Gates' behavior is the ultimate cause of this" DOES seem to be a little "reductive" i (not to mention presumptuous) in its own right, yes?

I would challenge you to look into a little history and statistics, or maybe talk to some people with different experiences than your own, before suggesting something so utterly simplistic.

[mkultra]

129. Actually, the cop had the last clear chance

When he choose to abuse his power. You seem to continually put forth the idea that the police are to be respected no matter what they do. I fail to agree.

[mkultra]

59. Your premise is also a flase construct

It is built solely on the logic of "You just don't". This is a discussion regarding right or wrong, not a talk on how to accept institutionalized oppression.

[DarthDem]

76. Okay

I'll frame it in your right-and-wrong terms, even though I find them questionable. No trouble.

It was wrong for the police officer to arrest Gates. It was also wrong for Gates to act the way he did, provoking the arrest. There you go. Not sure how much "right" we're going to uncover.

[mkultra]

108. sounds good so far. let me clarify

gates actions where not enough to legally "provoke" and arrest. The law was obeyed until the cop arrested him for contempt of cop.
personal provocation is not enough justification for an arrest.

[PurityOfEssence]

149. Refreshing perspective

It also struck me as interesting how Gates said he was "chosen" for this incident. I'm a bit of a bigot when it comes to academics, and this reeks of self-aggrandizement. Who or what "chose" him, and how is this noble calling to further reveal itself? I wonder what the semiotics of screaming in public at government figures are; they probably don't convey much saintliness on the screamer. It is VERY interesting that someone who makes his living analyzing forms of communication can be so unaware of the provocation of using extremely loaded accusations.

Being called a racist is rather hurtful, after all, both to real racists and those who have a cosmopolitan worldview.

One has every right to scream and rage at a cop in public, but it's really not a particularly good idea. The cop has the right to arrest one for doing it.

One irritating through line in all this is that people are repeatedly making concessions for Gates' imagined state of mind, while Crowley is DEMANDED to be above all emotion and an exemplary human in the face of personal insults. Human nature doesn't usually unfold like that. I'm a big fan of causality: actions cause reactions. Hadn't Gates "won" the confrontation, as the "chosen" would have needed to? The officer was satisfied that he was the lawful occupant of the house and was leaving. One is left with the BIG question of just what Professor Gates expected to accomplish by following him outside and yelling at him even after being informed that continuing to do so would get him arrested. This sounds like the "chosen" one was either looking to impress the mini-crowd by not taking any guff from the officer and proving his alpha-superiority or looking for a little martyrdom.

Screaming at peace officers in public is not something we as a society want to condone. It is also, in fact, against the law.

Crowley probably should have just walked away, but I'm going on scant information here, and until we hear the testimonies of the bystanders--which we assuredly will--we're ALL going on partial information.

[hileeopnyn8d]

240. I'm coming really close to doing so

" I have never been accused of racism in my life, by anyone, and I have no trouble with racial issues, and never have. "

I'm somewhat disturbed by the wording you use to characterize Gates. In a previous post you described him as "grinning like a fool", in this one you say he acted like a clown and a fool.

[mkultra]

54. It comes from some of the old time dems

[freddie mertz]

86. I'm 56 years old.

And I remember American apartheid.

I also grew up in Boston, and know something about the racial struggles (and racial profiling history) in that city (and in Cambridge), and believe me, it is NOT a pretty story.

There is no excuse for ignorance at any age.

[mkultra]

128. I agree but fail to see the pertinence.

[freddie mertz]

143. I am an "old time Dem"

Or at least, a somewhat "old" one.

[mkultra]

182. well, i concede that not all are bigots

My assertion was(or was meant to be) that a few of the old time dems are the blue collar working class or rural types. Within those ranks, some bigotry still remains.

This may be to broad brushed of a statement, so you have my apologies if it offends you.

[TwilightGardener]

42. Fail. Gates has no duty to the police officer--especially one treating him

like a suspect at his own home, and then arresting him--beyond cooperating with reasonable demands, providing ID, not resisting arrest, etc. He can "profile" all he wants, he can think whatever he wants, he can be as pissed as he wants, he can jump to whatever conclusions he wants. The police officer has a duty not to profile, not to jump to irrational conclusions, not to disregard Gates' constitutional rights, and not to treat Gates disrespectfully once he procured the ID and the situation dissolved.

[alcibiades_mystery]

45. Did Gates ARREST the cop?

If not, who gives a fuck? This isn't about whether people think badly about each other. It's about whether people's rights are infringed upon.

Nobody is required to think nicely about the police. Police officers, however, are required to behave in their jobs professionally. That's the only thing that matters in this case. Any attempt to turn it into a relation of equivalence (they're both jerks, they both profiled, they were both out of line, etc.) is a fucking lie and misdirection, since Gates had no power to affect the cop at all, nor was he performing a job function that required fair and professional behavior. There is no equivalence when one guy has the handcuffs. Period.

[Jennicut]

46. And yet another round of trying to come up with excuses for this officer

This time its that Gates is a "hot head". LOL. One of my good friends is a state trooper and he said he is trained to try and stop situations from escalating. The cop over reacted, not Gates.

[freddie mertz]

53. And all this serves only the Republican agenda

Which makes me wonder what is going on here today...

[Jennicut]

66. I am shocked at some here who try to excuse this cop's behavior

If the cop had acted in the correct way, would the charges have been dropped?

[freddie mertz]

72. They were dropped because they had no legal basis

But that doesn't seem to matter to some people here.

We can only guess why.

[Vinnie From Indy]

52. Your post is mildly amusing...

After such a long post, you never explain why Gates "profiling" of the officer is distressing to you. While I have no idea if Gates profiled the cop, why would that "distress" you if it did indeed happen?

[Moochy]

83. There is no logic in flamefests!

just the logic of the Kick and Unrec.

[Moochy]

68. This issue is like a Bug Zapper for Racists

zap! ignore

[freddie mertz]

74. HA!

n/t

[baldguy]

73. So what if he did? That's his right.

The point is - GATES DIDN'T COMMIT ANY CRIMES & THE COP HAD NO BUSINESS BEING THERE!

[Perky]

78. Are you kidding me.. The COP HAS EVERY RIGHT TO BE THERE

He was responding to a burglarly call. He had every right to question who Gates was and ask for ID,

[baldguy]

88. And once the ID was produced - THAT'S IT!

No more B&E, no more probable cause, NO MORE REASON FOR HIM TO BE STANDING UNINVITED IN THE MAN'S HOME!

The cop should've apologized & LEFT. Instead, he decided that uppity n----r needed to learn who's really in charge.

[freddie mertz]

89. And that should have been IT.

And attempts to excuse the arrest by blaming Gates serve nothing but division (and the Republican agenda).

I would like to encourage you to rethink this.

[Perky]

120. I am saking what happened after the ID was presented that ultimately led to

his arrest.

Until that point the Cop was doing his job and validating Gates was indeed the owner. Up until that point...but then what happened. who caused it to escalate and why?

[Bluerthanblue]

80. so, do you think Prof. Gates planned the whole thing then? He pretended

to break into his own home, arranged to have a neighbor call the police, and then sprang his pre-rehearsed rant on the poor innocent Sgt. Crowley???

Prof.Crowley is doing what many people who do when they are dealing with the aftermath of a situation that has unnerved them. He is looking for the 'up-side'. Looking for a way to take something "positive" from the experience, and here you are turning it around into some kind of pre-meditated 'sting'.

this is just plain sad...


:shrug:

[Perky]

82. No I don;t think anything of the sort

You can;t tell that from reading the OP subject???

[Bluerthanblue]

103. it is not only your OP, but all your comments that follow that

make your position very difficult to understand or defend.

I think you are seeing 'reverse racisim' where you need to because there is no real defense for this Policemans actions.

And because the UGLY reality that the abuse of power is something many people can't acknowledge- it's just too threatening.

What is the point of your OP? Are you trying to justify Crowley's actions or just denegrate Gates? Or both? At any rate, I disagree with you on this. What Crowley did as an OFFICER of the LAW was WRONG. There is no 'case' against Gates- the charges were dropped- so, wasn't Crowley "wrong" to have arrested him? Didn't he 'fail' at his job of keeping the peace?

[Perky]

114. Yes you are righrt...but why was Gates arrested is the question,

[freddie mertz]

119. Why do you keep inferring that Gates must be to blame?

n/t

[Perky]

121. You Misunderstand.

I don't think he should have been arrested. But based on what he says in the interview. It looks to me like he picked a fight with the cop. The cop should not have taken the bait....and should not have arrested him,


BGut Gates seems to make an assumption here that he was being profiled and thatis why the five cops were there. Something happened after proper ID was provided and accepted. The question is what happened and why.

[freddie mertz]

122. No. The issue is why he was arrested.

We would not be discussing it otherwise.

Again I will ask: You seem to want to blame him for it. Why?

[Perky]

125. BECAUSE of what he siad in ther interview,

[freddie mertz]

132. Whose interview?

n/t

[Perky]

152. Look at the OP He was interviewed on Oprah's Sirius site,

[freddie mertz]

156. Oh, that...

I find your reading of the interview to be pretty selective.

And that is putting it mildly.

[Perky]

159. oh well.....I also listened to it aswell

[freddie mertz]

170. Still seems you are willing to think the worst of Gates

And the best of the officer.

That said, even the worst reading does nothing to justify the arrest, so it all seems rather pointless.

[Perky]

187. I have not sais anything the Justifies the officers' actions,

I don't think Gate should have been arrested.

[Bluerthanblue]

123. that is a question only Crowley can answer- and the

honest answer to that question may be one that even Sgt.Crowley doesn't "know".

I'm inclined to believe it is similar to the answer Bill Clinton gave for his affair-
"Because I could".

Crowley held the reins- it was up to him to arrest, or to leave Gates to cool off- he made a very poor choice in my opinion.

I'm of the opinion that he is refusing to meet with Gates one on one because he wouldn't have 'the upper hand'- a situation that many Police officers struggle to deal with in their personal lives. I have no personal agenda agaisnt PO's. It is a uniquely demanding and difficult profession. Defending the indefensible, (which I believe the ARREST of Prof.Gates was) only serves to tear down the positive actions that the majority of PO's do every day.

Again, this is my opinion- which belongs to ME- just as Pres.O's opinion that the police acted "stupidly" is his, and needs no defense or apology. Don't like it? That's fine, but that doesn't make it void.

peace~

[Moochy]

91. Very Typical of the Apologists to Draw a False Equivalence

You see DUers, there is no racism, just bigotry on both sides!!

[Starry Messenger]

97. "Fair and Balanced!" (tm)

[ProSense]

92. OP makes no sense.

"Once ID was provided it should have been the end of it."

Period.

[freddie mertz]

98. I think that line might have been intended, consciously or not.

.. as "cover" for the rest of it.

At least, that is how I reconciled the obvious inconsistency.

That's my subjective reading, of course. O8)

[Perky]

113. It clearly was not the endd of and the fact that it was not the end

Causes me to question why it escalated from there,

[freddie mertz]

118. You wonder why it escalated?

Maybe because a man guilty of no crime was hauled out of his own house in handcuffs?

[Perky]

126. That was the result of the escalation not the cause of it

[freddie mertz]

134. That is what you say.

One could equally well ask why the COPS didn't just turn away after it was proven that no crime had been committed.

Why were they still there?

Once the ID and Gates' residence in the house had been confirmed, they should have left.

Sounds to me like it took two to tango here, and that it was the police, not Gates, who escalated it to the level of a public issue.

[Perky]

153. No it iw waht the professor and the police report both confirm

[freddie mertz]

157. I can't decipher your spelling here.

nt.

[Perky]

160. No it is what the professor and the police report both confirm

[freddie mertz]

171. OH.

You still seem to be willing to think the worst of Gates. And the best of the officer.

That said, even the worst reading does nothing to justify the arrest, so it all seems rather pointless.

[Perky]

186. I never,,,not a single time attempterd to justify the arrest

I agree with the President the Police acted stupidly. But that was not what the OP was about now was it?

[TorchTheWitch]

230. he DID leave

Crowley said he was leaving and if Gates wanted to continue with his tirade he'd have to do it outside. Gates then voluntarily follows Crowley outside where more cops have gathered (including at least one black cop) as well as several other passers by. Crowley warns Gates twice that he is being disorderly and must stop doing so. Gates ignores both warnings and Crowley then arrests him. No, he was not hauled out of the house in handcuffs.

[TorchTheWitch]

229. no, he was not hauled out of the house in handcuffs

Crowley said he was leaving and if Gates wanted to continue with his tirade he'd have to do it outside. Gates then voluntarily follows Crowley outside where more cops have gathered (including at least one black cop) as well as several other passers by. Crowley warns Gates twice that he is being disorderly and must stop doing so. Gates ignores both warnings continues his tirade and Crowley then arrests him. No, he was not hauled out of the house in handcuffs.

[BlooInBloo]

94. Yah!! Poor, poor downtrodden white cops!

:cry:

[Cha]

137. Yeah, that asshole got

profiled by me as an egomaniac.:nopity:

[Warren Stupidity]

111. "and demand ID" and ID was presented

and then the cop, Officer Crowley, having verified that Gates was the resident of the house, needed to remove himself from the premises and leave Professor Gates alone. Instead Crowley decided that Gates was just too damn up(set) and needed some more police investigation, plus some arresting.

[Perky]

116. That is the crux of it right there I think

What transpired ater ID was provided.... and why did it escalate..... Reading what Gates said he certainly seemed to be making some assumptions about the Cops motivation and demeanor.


He never should have been arrested in my view. but it sure seems like he wanted to pick a fight where perhaps none was warranted.

[Raineyb]

136. It escalated because either Crowley is incompetent or he's a thug

who wanted to show Prof. Gates whose in charge. Either way it is the fault of the asshat cop (Crowley) that this is a hot bloody mess.

You seem to be invested in blaming this on Prof. Gates which says a hell of a lot about you.

[Perky]

154. Read the professors own statement about the events

The vcop was stupid to arrest him but the escalation was as much Gates's fault as was the cops

[freddie mertz]

158. The arrest is the only thing that matters.

The rest is your very selective reading of the interview.

Why do you keep blaming the professor?

He was arrested in house after it was established he was not a burglar.

Why do you keep blaming him?

[Perky]

161. WHy do you refuse to deal with what he said were his motivations

I readidly admit that the arrest was stupid. I have never said it was in any sense justified. the OP was however not about the arrest it was about Gates' motivation

[Raineyb]

164. Discussing Prof. Gates' motivation is a specious argument.

It's a deliberate attempt to deflect from the important point of all this which is the behavior of the officer in question. The problem is abuse of authority not anything Prof. Gates may or may not have said in his own damn house.

[Perky]

167. Bwaaaaahhhhhhaaaaa// His behavior has nothing to do with why he was arrested?

That's intellectual cowardice at worst, and intellectual laziness at best.

[Raineyb]

172. The arrest was bullshit so there's not "reason" to why it occurred other than a power

mad cop. You keep trying to find a reason to blame Prof. Gates for an arrest that shouldn't have happened. The onus here is on Crowley. Your attempts to deflect from the actual problem in this scenario doesn't even rise to intellectual cowardice or laziness it's straight up fucktardery.

There was no grounds for arrest that is the point here your attempts at missing the point notwithstanding.

[freddie mertz]

176. You are correct.

Why this other stuff is being hauled in is beyond me....

[Raineyb]

179. Because there has to be some reason why the uppity negro had it coming

That seems to be the reasoning behind all this other stuff being brought in.

:shrug:

[freddie mertz]

181. I've noticed a bit of that.

HAD to be the uppity black man's fault.

If only he knew his place....

[freddie mertz]

174. Motivation?

He was confronted by police after having difficulty entering his own home following a long trip.

He had luggage.

He showed ID.

He committed no crime.

He had no "motivation," just "irritation."

[Raineyb]

163. I READ the statement. Probably before you bothered to.

And it you're still wrong. The officer, you know the "professional" the one with the power, is the one who is responsible for diffusing the situation aka DOING HIS GODDAMNED JOB. Prof. Gates is not at fault here.

Your need to blame the victim is nauseating.

[Phx_Dem]

117. Gee, can't imagine why. The guy shows up with 5 other cops,

walks into Gates home without being invited and without a warrant, and refuses to show his I.D. (at least the first few times Gates asked). If the Gates profiled the cops, it may be been because of the cops actions.

I don't think this shows the cop to be racist, but he used poor judgement, at best in arresting Gates. And if he department didn't agree with that, they would not have dropped the charges.

[LaurenG]

124. Oh boy - of course he did.

:eyes:

[blm]

127. Crowley was in charge and his responsibility was to get the CORRECT outcome

based on that special authority.

[Life Long Dem]

130. I think the second I saw the professor standing there with luggage

I would have cooled down, and instead of making the tackle from a 40 yard sprint I would have asked for an ID.

[Perky]

140. Tackled?

Did hae actually have the luggage in hand?

[Life Long Dem]

185. Gate's just got back from China,

and a taxi driver was helping him into the house with his luggage. So luggage was around Gate's.

[TorchTheWitch]

231. luggage was already in the house

the driver was Gates' personal driver, not a taxi driver.

[Teaser]

139. Getting all uppity and whatnot. Gates had it coming.

Good thing the cops put that boy back in his place.

</snark>

[redqueen]

142. Oh FFS. (nt)

[Aramchek]

145. you know you aren't really sorry.

posting Politico quotes....
Thanks for nothing.

[Raineyb]

148. Oh he/she's sorry all right.

One sorry sack of shit.

[Raine]

193. You nailed it ...

:thumbsup:

[Sandaasu]

150. Thank god someone else gets it.

Racial profiling goes both ways, and it's a problem both ways. If people go around assuming that every cop is out to get them just because of racial differences, then we're never going to sort out this mess.

[CatWoman]

151. do you realize just how stupid both of you sound?

[LaurenG]

155. Well it appears you and at least one other on this thread DON"T get it

funny how white people are so threatened when they are called on their racism. Police are notorious power mongers, we all know it. There is NO excuse for doing what they did, they got mad because Gates yelled at them! What a shame they didn't get their egos in check earlier, apologize and go on their way instead of trying to brow beat him for being upset.

They created this and now they can deal with it.

edit typo/clarification

[EFerrari]

210. LOL.

[Leo The Cleo]

162. Of Course You Would

[fishwax]

165. sounds like the "it all started when he hit me back" narrative

[TheKentuckian]

166. Gates did not have legal authority or responsibility. It doesn't matter what he did as long as

it was legal.

[SoxFan]

169. Socioeconomic profiling, perhaps

By all accounts in the local press (Globe, Herald), Sgt. Crowley is a decent cop with no history of racism or improper behavior.

It's not out of line to think that Gates might have copped the attitude that is sadly common among Harvard academics, that of looking down their noses at locals from Somerville and Quincy who work in fields like police work in the Boston area. If you don't think that socioeconomic elitism exists, then you haven't spent any time around this community.

I think what we have here are two good man who acted like bozos and probably wish they could have a do-over. Gates shouldn't have started in with the "do you know who I am" bluster; Crowley should have kept a cooler head and shouldn't have let this escalate.

[TheKentuckian]

178. "It's not out of line to think that Gates might have copped the attitude that is sadly common"

True. It is simply immaterial. The cop needs to do his job (which was completed upon verification of ID, if he didn't already know he was dealing with the resident, asked if the professor needs any further assistance, apologized to the professor for any inconvenience, and scooted along to protect and serve his community.

The policeman's authority concluded when the legal resident no longer wanted him present. Is the officer deserving of civility? Sure, but that civility is not an entitlement. If Gates doesn't give it then Crowley is free to call him everything but a child of God when he goes back to his car qnd talk about the dickhead professor with his wife and friends like everybody else who deals with the next man's crap at work.

[Prism]

177. Only one person in the situation had power

It's nearly impossible to cleanse human beings of making snap assumptions and acting on prejudicial sentiments.

No matter how Professor Gates' experiences and knowledge led to his reaction to the situation, Sgt. Crowley held all the power in the exchange. He had the responsibility to wield that power with supreme care. He carried the weight of a history of profiling and needed to ensure that, no matter what the situation, his actions recognized it and would not aggravate it.

He failed on those many fronts. Because he had the force of the state behind him, his failures carried deeper consequences and require deeper attention and correction.

That's really the only issue here.

[Cha]

190. Precisely.

crowley failed and now he gets to go to the White House and have a beer with PO and Gates and hopefully lessons have been learned.

Poor Gates flying home from China and getting cuffed in his own home. Talk about the electric bolt out of the blue.

[Leontius]

184. Something that most people seem to have a problem

understanding is acting like a dick to a cop may not be a crime, and I really don't know whether it is or not, but it is STUPID it will cause you a problem. Right or wrong that is reality and until human reaction or emotion is somehow completely removed from the cop on the street laws, the Constitution, whatever will not help you when the shit hits the fan.

[hollowdweller]

188. I don't think the cop profiled him.

I think the cop lost his temper with him and arrested him just because he pissed him off.

I've had a lot of claimants get pissed off at me but I think it's totally unprofessional to let your clients make you lose your cool.

Also had some friends pulled over. They had an expired registration. One was having a bad day and started complaining about the ticket the cops took them in and empounded their car! Cost them some bucks to get it all straightened out.

[Milo_Bloom]

189. The actual reality is both people acted stupidly

The difference is the cop is supposed to be specifically trained not to do so.

[Raine]

192. So what if he did

of course he had an opinion about a cop who accuses him of breaking into his own home. The cop is the one in power, he has a gun and all the autority so really Gates snap judgement shouldn't have anything to do with the cop's treatment of him. Gates didn't physically attack or threaten him. The cop is the one who escalated things because he was all bent out of shape about Gates wanting his name, badge etc. It's up the cop to remain calm, afterall he was the one on the job and should've been professional.

[TorchTheWitch]

232. Crowley NEVER accused Gates of breaking into his own home

Because the call was a possible break-in in progress he HAD to determine whether or not Gates had the legal right to be there. Gates could have been lawfully arrested when he first refused to show his ID, but since he felt that Gates probably did have a legal right to be there, Crowley managed to pursuade him to prove his identity.

[rocktivity]

195. Gates wasn't "slighted" by Crowley--he was VIOLATED.

Gates said he sensed a series of unspoken slights in the way Crowley treated him--demanding he step outside, assuming he was an intruder, not the homeowner, and even AFTER he produced ID...

And WHY did Crowley aske Gates to step outside AFTER Gates proved he was the homeowner and had broken no laws? So that Crowley could "legitimately" bust him for disorderly conduct. But Gates knew what the deal was--and so did Crowley's superiors, or they wouldn't have dropped the charges! Gates "profiled" Crowley, all right--as a bad cop. Don't call him a racist because he was right!

:headbang:
rocktivity

[Bluenorthwest]

196. The spiral of racialist denial continues on DU

I'm a white guy who could write pages on why I agree with the President.

[TexasObserver]

199. Utter nonsense. Try again.

[Cali_Democrat]

202. The amount of stupidity on DU is very shocking.

[Life Long Dem]

204. Do you think this was a big racial profiling incident for Gate's?

Then why did Gate's say all those things? Is the cop standing behind me right now?

[merh]

207. Oh bullshit.

Crowley wanted Gates to step on the porch so he could arrest him. See, he couldn't be arrested for disturbing the peace in his own house. The standard catch all charge cops use when the citizen pisses them off is "disorderly conduct" or "disturbing the peace".

Gates was right, he was entitled to Crowley's respect. See, the police work for the citizens, they are supposed to "protect & serve", and Gates is a citizen with rights.

[EFerrari]

209. You can't be serious.

[fishwax]

219. well, you know, Gates studies African American history, so he must be racist

At least, that's what I learned in another thread :crazy::puke::wtf:

[Flying Dream Blues]

223. OMG...seriously? This is DU?? nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

214. Seems like a white southerner is doing his own kind of profiling

Flamebait, bullshit post

[Perky]

216. I was born in Boston, Riased in NJ Live in DC Subuirbs. And how do you know I am white?

I thinks I may have been profiled,

[foginthemorn]

215. It is

an interesting theory--that Mr. Gates profiled the cop as well. And based on what happened, you may be onto something. Thanks for the post.

[Better Believe It]

217. Gates sure knows a lot about marketing and self-promotion.

Did God also choose Gates to produce a PBS documentary?

[lynne]

218. I agree 100% and I also think that Obama profiled the officer with his remark -

- especially as he admitted beforehand that he didn't have all the facts. What is that, other than profiling?

There was profiling all way around, none of them are innocent.

[Raineyb]

220. Profiling is not a two way street.

You should at least use the terms correctly.

[lynne]

227. By definition, profiling can be as many streets as the situation deems necessary -

- Definition of profiling: "recording a person's behavior and analyzing psychological characteristics in order to predict or assess their ability in a certain sphere or to identify a particular group of people".

In this instance, the officer, Gates and Obama profiled each other based on what they felt were their group characteristics - be they black, white, or a law enforcement officer. It appears to me that all three of them need a refresher course.

[Raineyb]

228. You're trying to make Gate's issue with the police on par with what the cops do on the

streets every day. You deliberately ignore the power differences in order to make a rather weak point that both are equally to blame. You are wrong.

[lame54]

222. you'd be wise to profile cops - don't confuse it with profiling race

[Honeycombe8]

225. "As well"? I don't agree the cops (there were 3 of them) profiled Gates to begin with.

They rec'd a description (Af. American men, and incl. the clothing description).

Officers are met by Gates at door. He meets description (Af. American, clothing description). So main officer asks for ID...then asks if there are others in the house, because he's thinking that maybe 2 other guys broke in and are there, unbeknownst to Gates.

That's not profiling in any way.

What IS racist is for Gates to yell at the main officer and call him derogatory names.

Main officer shouldn't have arrested the old guy, though. He should've just walked away, shaking his head. And next time, responded slllooooowwwwwwlllly to any reports of a break-in at that house.

[kid a]

226. I expect my public servents to be trained to recognize when to walk away from a home owner

I should be able to call a police officer every name in the book from my porch, as long as I do not threaten him.
When he puts on that uniform, he should be protecting me - even from my irrational, angry self.
He should walk away.

[Name removed]

233. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Odin2005]

234. Now I heard EVERYTHING! Stupidest OP of the day!

:crazy:

[kid a]

235. Par for the Perky course.

[Skittles]

236. gee, ya THINK?

whole lotta stereotyping going on

[BlooInBloo]

239. Indeed. A black man who doesn't trust a white cop is clearly a reverse-racist....

I can't think of ANY other possibility.

:rofl:

[SunsetDreams]

242. cough...cough...and all the rest.