Racial Profiling

[Truthiness Inspector]

Under what circumstances would you say it is NOT racial profiling if a person of "minority" status is arrested/cited/contacted by police?

[babylonsister]

1. When an actual crime was committed?

Do I win a cookie?

[Truthiness Inspector]

2. And you would determine that externally?

Or would you actually want to know the facts before collecting your cookie?

[PurityOfEssence]

3. So we should NEVER investigate ANYTHING unless proof of a crime already exists?

If we hear a woman's piercing screams in the middle of the night, we shouldn't follow up?

Many disturbances warrant investigation when there's no proof of a crime. Must there be a smoking gun AND a lifeless body before action can be taken?

This is all getting ridiculous.

[babylonsister]

5. Yes, it's getting ridiculous. So are you. A woman didn't scream,

a man was irate in his own home because he was being harassed.

[Truthiness Inspector]

6. Why did you bounce over my reply to your comment? n/t

[PurityOfEssence]

32. Do you not understand the analogy, or are you playing games?

The original poster asked under what circumstances a minority could be "arrested/cited/contacted" without it being trumpeted as a case of obvious racial profiling.

There are two issues in the Gates case: questioning him after the report of a break-in, and his arrest for disorderly conduct.

Obviously, you can't be talking about the latter, because he was, by a few accounts, being disruptive and derisive IN PUBLIC after Crowley had resolved the ID issue and descended the stairs to the street. You may not like this, and you may think it's been thoroughly overblown, but it IS a crime. (I don't think it warranted arrest in this situation, but I wasn't there.)

You must be talking about his being questioned about his identity and being in the house. There was no proof that a crime had occurred, and there actually hadn't been, but that's how crime investigation HAS to work: suspicious activities that are called in need to be investigated.

That's why I brought up the analogy of a blood-curdling scream. There's no proof that this means a crime; it could be a bad dream, wild sex, histrionic/inconsiderate rehearsal of a scene, a psychotic episode or a number of other things. Still, I'd like to see something like this investigated, even though no crime has been committed. Part of policing is to stop crimes from happening or interrupt perpetrators in the act to save lives and property.

Part of being a member of a damned society is to be responsible for one's actions and respond to those entrusted with protecting us.

The analogy was pretty clear. The poster asked not just about arrests, but about even being contacted. You responded that a minority shouldn't even be CONTACTED unless there's conclusive proof that a crime has occurred. That would make some people highly privileged in comparison to the rest of us slobs, and would defeat much of the purpose of policing: crime prevention.

Is that more clear?

[Hutzpa]

8. Thats an idiotic analogy

trying to use strawman argument as facts is convoluted and misleading, it boggles the
mind how some of us here use our thinking.

What you are suggesting is....the police should not investigate crimes in an area
where minorities live - see where I'm going with this. (thats what a strawman argument
sounds like) because of this incident with Prof Gates.

No one here is suggesting they should not arrest if there is a crime being committed,
what folks here are saying is they should use more rational than irrational, basically
use their common sense in making a decision. Too often the police have abused their
power when dealing with the black and hispanic community for the simple fact that they
know these folks don't know the law and they can get away with anything because
ignorant folks allows them to and do not question the police.

The police force have become accustomed to arresting people for talking back to them
and none of the officials have pulled them back to explain to these officers that they
are misinterpreting the law. Its the duty of the DA to do just that.

[masuki bance]

4. Look, if there is gang graffitti spray painted on local businesses

I would hope the cops wouldn't waste their time rousting the folks at the old folks infirmary. If there is a rape victim that reports she was attacked by a skinny white guy, I would recommend that the local Hispanic womens weight watchers anonymous might not be the first place to look for the suspect.

The woman says that she saw men possibly breaking into a home, do the cops need to wait until the real owner makes a personal appearance at the police station before anything can happen?

[boppers]

7. More simple: Racism.

'Under what circumstances would you say it is NOT racism if a person of "minority" status is arrested/cited/contacted by police?'

It's not racism when the evidence, the facts, are supported by valid data.
It's racism when the evidence, the facts, are not supported by valid data.

Sadly, most police officers are sorely lacking in basic science and logic.

[babylonsister]

9. But this cop taught a class on racial tolerance, so that doesn't work.

When asked about prior complaints from his bosses, everyone zipped their lips. :shrug:

[Truthiness Inspector]

10. Why do you keep avoiding my replies? Are you unsure of your position/accusations? n/t

[babylonsister]

12. No, it's because you're usually disagreeable, and I'm not

interested in arguing.

That's the truth.

[Truthiness Inspector]

14. You engaged me first, not the other way around.

Review the thread.

[crikkett]

20. I reviewed the thread. What she did, was bite on your OP/Troll,

troll.

[EFerrari]

31. Isn't that your OP?

[boppers]

11. He taught a class, so what?

He arrested one of the world's most educated persons on the topic of racial tolerance.

Gates has taught a few more classes, I think, to a few brighter bulbs, than the local PD tolerance courses.

Comparing the two is a tad laughable.

[babylonsister]

13. Come on down to the real world .

The cop didn't know who he was, and didn't care. He did his job, and has been supported.

[boppers]

15. Doing "a job" didn't work out so well in the past.

Great, he's a freaking robot, with no brain. Sad excuse.

His own department and local government said he was wrong, and refused to support the charges, so I'm not sure how he was "supported", other than saying he wasn't an overt racist.

[Truthiness Inspector]

19. Wrong

Stop lying to make yourself feel better. ALL police unions are supporting Sgt. Crowley. ALL of them. If you can find one that isn't, post it, and I will retract the "all" statement. Do you have any idea why the charges were dropped? Has it occurred to you that it was not the prosecutor, rather a moment of political pressure on the Chief?

It's obvious you have NO clue how this stuff works. But I'm sure you fancy yourself as some superior educator.

Stop making shit up just because it gets your (whatever undergarments you wear) in a twist. There are real lives and reputations, like Sgt. Crowley's, that matter.

[boppers]

22. Unions don't trump the Constitution.

The charges were dropped because the Supreme Court has already weighed in on this.

Police are *NOT* allowed to abuse their power and arrest somebody for being uppity.

[Ken Burch]

23. The charges were dropped because Dr. Gates was innocent and they knew it

You can't be arguing that Dr. Gates actually DESERVED to be arrested, or that the charges shouldn't have been dropped, are you?

What is it about this that has you so torqued? To read your posts, if the cop had backed down and been respectful to Dr. Gates once Dr. Gates PROVED it was his house, anarchy would've broken out and everyone white person in Cambridge would've been murdered in their beds by the Black Studies Department.

[inthebrain]

29. That cause cops act as their own fucking mafia

They pulled the same shit when Abner Louima had a fucking plunger and a broom stick rammed up his ass.

oh, and speaking of liars


In reaching its decision, the Court noted that the rationale behind criminalizing disorderly conduct rests on the belief that a disorderly person can provoke violence in others.. Given that an inherent part of police work involves being in the presence of distraught individuals, and given that police officers are trained to maintain order, the Court concluded that police should be the least likely to be provoked. Therefore, police presence alone does not satisfy the public element.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdaterminal&L=5&L0=Home&L1...

[EFerrari]

30. Well, Jim Crow's career as a sensitivity trainer is definitely over.

And he will now be known as the asswipe that arrested Henry Louis Gates.

[Truthiness Inspector]

16. Gates is superior to Crowley, higher on the food chain. Right? n/t

[boppers]

17. Knows more about the topic.

Do you have issues with a person being educated?

[Truthiness Inspector]

18. Knows more about WHAT topic?

Laws of arrest and police work or preaching academia from a podium?

[boppers]

21. Laws of the country.

The officer apparently doesn't know them.

[inthebrain]

28. More like the laws of the city and state

In reaching its decision, the Court noted that the rationale behind criminalizing disorderly conduct rests on the belief that a disorderly person can provoke violence in others.. Given that an inherent part of police work involves being in the presence of distraught individuals, and given that police officers are trained to maintain order, the Court concluded that police should be the least likely to be provoked. Therefore, police presence alone does not satisfy the public element.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdaterminal&L=5&L0=Home&L1...

[EFerrari]

26. Gates has received the highest honor a man of letters in this country can get.

He was chosen to give the Jefferson Lecture in 2002.

On the other hand, Crowley teaches cops how to entrap black men.

You do the math.

[inthebrain]

27. You really busted out the white sheet tonight?

What a matter?

Gates get a little "Uppity" and you're tale feathers get ruffled?

[EFerrari]

24. How could his bosses say, yeah, we picked this asshole to teach sensitivity?

:shrug:

Omg, THAT'S why there was such a fast reaction from the whole cop establishment there. Their "expert" looked like an asshole in public and shamed them. Oops.

[inthebrain]

25. MORE of this shit from you?

[TexasObserver]

33. I regret missing the opportunity to unrecommend this thread.

Racial profiling is a serious problem and it deserves better treatment than found in the original post.

[retread]

34. Have the bigots here increased in numbers or in frequency of their OP's ? n/t