PS - Remember when we were promised sweeping corporate reform?

[Political Heretic]

Notice how that subject has faded into oblivion as everything returns to the status quo that got us in this mess in the first place?

Sigh.

Business as usual.

We only have so many more boom/bust cycles of economic corruption and exploitation before we permanently crash the system. Every time we bust, its worse than the last time. Each time has been like a red flag warning, but no one is paying attention.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Not really, no.

Remember when we were promised the truth about the missles that were fired into the WTC?

[dionysus]

2. ELEVENS!!1!!1!!!

[Political Heretic]

3. I'm sorry, have I said something inaccurate?

Do you dispute that our economic boom/bust cycles are a problem or that our system of plunder corporate capitalism is running unhinged?

Or did you just automatically assume somehow this might be something negative about Obama and automatically release snark by default?

Congress are the ones burying the corporate reform issue, under the influence of the constituents they represent, which are not us.

You don't automatically have a problem with me criticizing congress or the ways in which the corporate lobby buys off politicians do you?

Ok then.... why the snark, again?

[dionysus]

4. ...

Do you dispute that our economic boom/bust cycles are a problem or that our system of plunder corporate capitalism is running unhinged? nope

Or did you just automatically assume somehow this might be something negative about Obama and automatically release snark by default? yup

Congress are the ones burying the corporate reform issue, under the influence of the constituents they represent, which are not us. agreed

You don't automatically have a problem with me criticizing congress or the ways in which the corporate lobby buys off politicians do you? nope

again.. why the snark?

it's how i roll

:hi:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Political Heretic]

16. You're respose to #2, acknowleging that you automatically assume, without reading,

and post knee-jerk snark is a pretty damning self-indictment of uncritical thinking.

You accused me of posting "whining blather" and in return I gave you a list of my posts over the last couple weeks and asked you to identify specifically, your issues with any of them. That was deleted do to personal comments made by both of us. So here they are again:

Title: Do June Housing Numbers Indicate a Return to Status Quo?
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/do-june-housing-number-indicate-return.html

Title: Nice Discussion on Complexities of Copyright Law
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/nice-discussion-of-complexities-of.html

Title: Democrats Cut Labor Provisions, Kill EFCA
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/democrats-cut-labor-provisions-kill.html

Title: One Giant Leap to Nowhere (about stagnation in scientific discovery)
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/one-giant-leap-to-nowhere.html

Title: House Bill's High Income Surcharge: A Reasonable Approach
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/house-health-bills-high-income.html

Others I found on DU search (I suck at using this effectively):

Here is What we Are Up Against (Business Week article on opposition to corporate reform)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8503498

Title: Obama Hears Dissent on Plan to Reform Financial Regulation (in this thread I corrected someone else who wrongly interpreted the article to be saying Obama was giving special attention to the financial lobby on this issue.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3971753

So... what exactly is it that my posts have been whiny or thoughtless, and what specific objections do you have?

[dionysus]

19. it's not the articles you linked.perhaps it was the tenor of the OPs. to be honest, i don't want to

go into this now, because, believe it or not, i have sciatic nerve pain so bad right now i am wondering whether i should lay on the floor and cry or drive myself to an urgent care facility.

i don't quite feel like posting back and forth right now, but i'd love to discuss this with you later on.

and i am not joking at all. i have never experienced anything like this.

the painkillers they gave me ain't doing crap, and my physical therapy doesn't start till monday, so right now DU is the last thing i am thinking about (as i continue to skim threads, like a junkie)

[Political Heretic]

20. That's all I needed to hear - nothing else is more important till you feel better :)

Forget all this - concentrate on feeling better, if you can, or at least getting through until you can get to therapy monday.

Best of luck.

[dionysus]

26. thank you for understanding. i apologize for being testy.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. I'm in pain like that daily

And while your posts annoy me, no one should have to endure that agony. Best of luck to you with your back.

[Political Heretic]

17. Specific questions, minus all persona response

You accused me of posting "whining blather" and in return I gave you a list of my posts over the last couple weeks and asked you to identify specifically, your issues with any of them. That was deleted do to personal comments made by both of us. So here they are again:

Title: Do June Housing Numbers Indicate a Return to Status Quo?
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/do-june-housing-number-indicate-return.html

Title: Nice Discussion on Complexities of Copyright Law
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/nice-discussion-of-complexities-of.html

Title: Democrats Cut Labor Provisions, Kill EFCA
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/democrats-cut-labor-provisions-kill.html

Title: One Giant Leap to Nowhere (about stagnation in scientific discovery)
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/one-giant-leap-to-nowhere.html

Title: House Bill's High Income Surcharge: A Reasonable Approach
http://practical-vision.blogspot.com/2009/07/house-health-bills-high-income.html

Others I found on DU search (I suck at using this effectively):

Here is What we Are Up Against (Business Week article on opposition to corporate reform)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8503498

Title: Obama Hears Dissent on Plan to Reform Financial Regulation (in this thread I corrected someone else who wrongly interpreted the article to be saying Obama was giving special attention to the financial lobby on this issue.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3971753

So... what exactly is it that my posts have been whiny or thoughtless, and what specific objections do you have?

[Political Heretic]

18. Still waiting.

[Uzybone]

7. read here

http://www.thedeal.com/dealscape/2009/07/barney_frank_regulation_congre.php


Your larger point is correct and a complete system overhaul will not happen until we become a socialist country. Capitalism = boom and bust. Its just a question of controlling the size of the boom/bust.

[SpartanDem]

8. You think the subject has faded

if anything it's heating up you'll remember the Admin outlined it's proposals in June and there have been numerous hearing in the relevant committees in both houses in preparation of having a bill out in the fall. The list below is just what the house financial services committee has held by itself this month.

I would think anyone who is seriously is paying attention to regulation reform would know this already this information is not a secret. In addition this is a process you don't craft complex legislation like this quickly and I would suggest you go back and watch a couple of these hearing

7/24/2009 Regulatory Perspectives on the Obama Administration’s Financial Regulatory Reform Proposals-Part Two Full Committee
7/22/2009 TARP Oversight: Warrant Repurchases and Protecting Taxpayers Oversight and Investigations
7/22/2009 Regulatory Perspectives on the Obama Administration’s Financial Regulatory Reform Proposals Full Committee
7/21/2009 Systemic Risk: Are Some Institutions Too Big to Fail and If So, What Should We Do About It? Full Committee
/17/2009 Industry Perspectives on the Obama Administration’s Financial Regulatory Reform Proposals Full Committee
7/16/2009 Community and Consumer Advocates’ Perspectives on the Obama Administration’s Financial Regulatory Reform Proposals Full Committee
7/16/2009 Regulatory Restructuring: Safeguarding Consumer Protection and the Role of the Federal Reserve Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology
7/15/2009 Banking Industry Perspectives on the Obama Administration’s Financial Regulatory Reform Proposals Full Committee
7/14/2009 SEC Oversight: Current State and Agenda Capital Markets
7/13/2009 Preventing Unfair Trading by Government Officials Oversight and Investigations
7/10/2009 A Review of the Administration’s Proposal to Regulate the Over-the-Counter Derivatives Market Full Committee
7/9/2009 Regulatory Restructuring: Balancing the Independence of the Federal Reserve in Monetary Policy with Systemic Risk Regulation Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology

[Political Heretic]

9. You define that as "heating up?"

Interesting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6178203&mesg_id=6178203

[SpartanDem]

10. In Washington terms it is

the goal has always been to have a final bill by the end of the year. When did you think this would happen?

[Political Heretic]

11. You seem to be thinking that the speed, and not the direction, is the issue.

:shrug:

[SpartanDem]

13. If Congress is working on the problem how is direction an issue?

there is a already broad outline for the reform bill and the language for consumer protection agency has been written I could understand if none this had takwn place. What more would you like to have seen already?

http://financialservices.house.gov/Financial_Regulatory_Reform.html


H.R. 3126, Consumer Financial Protection Agency Act of 2009
http://financialservices.house.gov/Financial%20Regulatory%20Reform/HR3126.pdf

[Political Heretic]

15. Because since that time, congress persons have backed away from voiciferous support. Why? Link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=8503498

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3971753

[Bullet1987]

12. I don't remember hearing anything about corporate reform no

Unless you're talking about transparency. Now THAT is something you could criticize Obama for, because that was a major part of his campaign platform...not corporate reform.

[Political Heretic]

14. Um, wrong.

He formally announced that corporate regulatory reform is part of his plan for economic recovery, and he did this multiple times, starting clear back in February. Where have you been?

And besides all that, this isn't about Obama. The fact that you think it is only indicates you rolled into this thread, didn't seriously read, and then posted based on your wrong assumptions. :(

[leftstreet]

21. K&R

[HamdenRice]

22. How long do you think "sweeping corporate reform" takes? I'd say 2 years minimum

First we would have to have hearings. We don't even fully understand what happened. We don't know what structures caused systemic risk that almost brought the financial system down. We don't know how to continue some securitization of mortgages while preventing them from being abused.

It's going to take at least 2 years of study to figure out what "sweeping corporate reform" would look like. Then it will take the same kind of grueling political negotiation to get a bill to the floor.

[Political Heretic]

29. No longer than health "reform"

Which is not taking 2 years. While I'm not sure I like the shape health reform appears to be taking, the notion that critical changes take years and years is simply false. Not when there is political will and focus.

It's the difference between when something is on leader's agenda's because its one of THEIR priorities or when something is on their agenda because they want to placate people who are interrupting their agenda...

Quite simply, tough talk is for the public. The public hears it, feels better, and then goes back to their own business. When public attention has faded, the actual talk is dramatically softened. Evidence? Two case studies.

First, consider the current debate on health care legislation. Admittedly, the government is wrapped up in this issue, which is part of the reason regulatory reform has been pushed to the back. We note in the health care debate the slow shifting away from key ideas that the American people were sold on, and the steadily increasing number of concessions made to powerful corporate lobbies.

Second and perhaps even more powerful as an example, consider the days of Enron, WorldCom and Xerox. Company after company after company was caught lying and cheating its way to the top, breaking all the rules and threatening economic stability. In the face of significant public attention and anger, President Bush promised sweeping regulatory reform of corporate accounting practices and of the actions permissible by corporate executives.

Over the next few weeks, the public was placated and satisfied, and largely returned to their day to day lives after being briefly awakened from slumber. While American people weren’t looking weak, powerless completely non-binding “regulation” was passed that did not change the way businesses operate in the slightest. But it could be referred to as “sweeping reform” whenever the Bush administration needed to signal that it was “fair” or “tough” on Wall Street.

These are two examples, offered as evidence to support my basic conclusion, which is that tough talk is purely an act for the public, and that our national political system simply will not allow true and serious reform of the status quo on any level. Not when it comes to corporate business practices, not when it comes to health care, not when it comes to green technology, not when it comes to foreign policy, and so on.

And so it goes.

[tavalon]

23. Was that before or after they got our vote?

Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Same.as.it.ever.was....................

[invictus]

24. K&R

[DailyGrind51]

25. Reform was swept under the rug?

[Wednesdays]

28. K&R

:kick: