Obama did not campaign on delivering single payer health care. He is under no obligation to do so.

[ProSense]

He campaigned on delivering health care reform with a public option.

If Obama advocates strongly for his plan to the exclusion of single payer, he is fulfilling his campaign promise to fight for health care reform.

He has to deliver a bill with a strong public option, nothing more, nothing less. Period.






edited transposed word.

[Phx_Dem]

1. Exactly.

[grantcart]

2. more importantly the only path to single payer is by building broad based

acceptance and dispelling ignorance through a public option.


Co-ops however are another problem. They are a dead end alley and will not lead to public option or single payer.

[vaberella]

55. Precisely. n/t

[polichick]

3. You start negotiations with the ideal and move toward the doable...

If single payer advocates were given the same time and attention as entrenched special interests, there would be no question about a public option now.

[QC]

62. This administration always *starts* by making big concessions to the impotent minority.

I wish someone would send them to a flea market so they could learn how to negotiate.

[IndianaGreen]

4. I guess you can make the same argument about Afghanistan

yet, it will be Afghanistan that will be Obama's undoing. The foolish pursuit of a no-win strategy that will only accomplish one thing, more graves and more damaged people.

[denem]

5. Er .. He consistently spelt out the need the focus on Afghanistan, not Iraq.

[IndianaGreen]

14. How many years are we going to be in Afghanistan before Obama admits it was a mistake?

At least 10 years, if you ask the Pentagon. How many will die, suffer horrible wounds and lose loved ones, and for what?

[ProSense]

15. It figures you now want to talk Afghanistan. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

21. Your OP was that Obama is not bound to anything he did not promised during campaign

Well, guess what? Obama did promise to surge into Afghanistan.

[ProSense]

23. "Obama did promise to surge into Afghanistan. " You continue to spout nonsense

Obama promises 10,000 more troops for Afghanistan

Obama: Send 2 more brigades to Afghanistan

[IndianaGreen]

25. Afghanistan = Vietnam

and it will end just as badly.

[ProSense]

31. Nuts! n/t

[Cha]

9. I guess you can twist words and throw out a

strawman to keep up the belligerence in the face of facts but that's not going to change anything.

[IndianaGreen]

16. No strawman here. The OP said that Obama is not bound to anything not promised during campaign

so the other side of the coin is what he promised, in this case Afghanistan.

[quakerboy]

68. maybe I am dense, but explain for me

If I promise A, and do not promise B, Then do not deliver B, how does that mean I am not obligated to deliver A?

I agree with you on Afghanistan, staying is a huge mistake. But I don't follow the logic there.

[DrDan]

6. so . . . . what is the best option for Americans?

and if it is single-payer, why is he not working his butt off for that? Should we be satisfied with a less-than-optimum solution? Should we be satisfied that he is not supporting the best solution? Perhaps you are ok with it, but don't expect full support.

[emulatorloo]

7. The public option is a first step, IMHO. n/t

[DJ13]

19. .... so was Medicare

........45 years ago

[John Q. Citizen]

33. Why go for an efficient well loved liberal program when you can have a market based new fadish

start from scratch bureaucracy that gives the scumbag insurance companies one trillion dollars every decade?

We wouldn't want the voters to think we were liberals, after all, now would we?

[Hansel]

24. The best option for Americans is immediate health insurance reform

because there is no chance in hell that single payer is going to pass.

Most people are not sophisticated enough to understand this stuff and they are afraid of change. When they realize that change won't kill them and Obama can be trusted, we can move to the next step. But any effort to go directly to single payer will destroy any chance of any reform and that would be the worst thing for Americans.

Also, the immediate move to single payer will result in the loss of 100s of thousands of jobs. Not exactly the best thing for Americans at this point.

Edit to add: I think a public option is also important, just like Obama does. Whether he can get it or not seems to be still up in the air, but if he does get it I bet it is going to be significantly limited in who can purchase it. It will probably include means testing, which will suck.

[Cleita]

8. No but he did promise a strong public option, which seems to have

morphed into getting some government help in buying insurance from the same Wall Street profiteers. A true public option would be Medicare made available for those who don't want private health insurance regardless of whether they can afford to buy insurance ornot. Why not let them buy Medicare if they want it? No one is answering that question.

[ProSense]

10. All you have are distortions.

Facts

[Cleita]

17. If you think you have the real facts you haven't been listening to

the discourse and the code words.

[Cha]

11. It's not over yet..so it might be

healthier to put a hold on the morbid predictions.

[emulatorloo]

12. And wild hypotheticals, which I am seeing a lot of. EOM

[Cha]

13. Thank you!

emulatorloo~

[Cleita]

20. Well, when there is some straight talk, like yes Medicare will be

available to EVERYONE as a public options, then I will predict otherwise. In case you haven't noticed these are politicians who know how to obfuscate issues that they don't want to be questioned on.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

18. So I assume you'll be disappointed if he doesn't deliver a strong public option, right?

That's all I want.. a strong public option.


That will be a starting point for the future.



I'll be happy so long as we get a strong public option. (and I am very lucky and already have good insurance and I am in excellent health - I just think everyone should be in the same position).


If he can deliver a strong public option in his first term, he did very well on healthcare in my book.

[Cleita]

22. I agree but he's moving away from that position. I hope he back tracks and

does it.

[depakid]

29. Like backtracks toward say- 2010 or 11 implementation....

Considering the urgency of the problem, 2013 is insulting. The country could transition to a cheaper, more rational, two tiered single payer system by then- phasing out the parasites and saving big money.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

45. I notice the OP won't answer my question.. because she doesn't want to be held to it.

She's so transparent.

[ProSense]

48. "She's so transparent." About

what?

[WinkyDink]

26. Well, sure. But his campaign promise isn't from Mt. Sinai; it COULD be changed for the better.

[patrice]

27. Definition of terms: "strong"? Obama IS under an obligation NOT to enslave us to TPB.

As long as we are doing our part in "Yes We Can" he is under an OBLIGATION to go against the Oppressors, no matter what it costs him politically.

[patrice]

28. All campaigns are about Potentialities, not gaurantees. Potentialities CAN go either way, depending

upon what the "elected" choose to do.

[Jakes Progress]

30. Why do apologists not get it?

Just because he didn't campaign for single payer doesn't mean it wouldn't be better if we had it.

I voted for Obama. I campaigned for him. I did hours and gave dollars to get him elected.

He didn't promise Single Payer, but that's what I want and it would be better if we had it.

He didn't promise to get us out of the middle east wars, but that's what I want and we would be better off if we did.

He didn't promise gay marriage rights, but that's what I want and we would be better off if the country did that.

He is under no obligation to do anything whether he campaigned on it or not. It's not a contract; it's a political tactic.

I would like to see your definitions of what you call a strong public option. There will be a "public option" in the legislation, but the details are a little devilish in the current forms.

[ProSense]

32. Why do detractors think they're so smart?

"Just because he didn't campaign for single payer doesn't mean it wouldn't be better if we had it."

Where in the OP does it imply anything so ridiculous?

[jesus_of_suburbia]

46. Will you answer my question? Reply 18.

It would be nice if you answered it without a snarky reply... but I doubt that would happen.

[Jakes Progress]

67. Not likely. Taking a stand that

is not recommended if you need to move your political center around a lot.

[Jakes Progress]

66. Not smart. Just smarter. nt

[rug]

34. So, he should not fight for it because he is not obliged to?

[debbierlus]

42. Yes. Why should he advocate for the best system of reform when there is a uniquely American system

To create....

For the insurance companies

[slipslidingaway]

35. Obama did not campaign on individual mandates to purchase insurance

now he says he has changed his mind.

Obama did campaign on the promise that all sides would be heard and that he would deliver the best, most cost efficient system.

But he changed his mind on that as well.

[debbierlus]

41. It will be interesting to watch this board when the realization of no real public option

Hits them between the eyes....

And, they realize they have been duped into being cheerleaders for Private Mandatory Health Insurance....otherwise known as...'the private insurance companies wet dream come true'.

[slipslidingaway]

50. It reminds me of the discussions here about Edwards, many did

not see him for who he really was.

:(

Interesting and sad that so many will continue to do without.

[jeanpalmer]

58. They will never face up to it

So long as he uses the magic words "public option" he will have their support.

A "public option" that takes effect in 2013 is not a public option. It's a fraud. It's a sham designed to fool the gullible. It's merely a way to not have to deal with the problem.

Single payer is doable, or at least competitive, if you have a President who is willing to make the case for it. Obama's argument against it is that the changeover would be too disruptive. But if it is gradually phased in, the changeover would not not be a big problem. Conyers recommends a phase in period of 15 years. It could be done by age, or geographically. There are all kinds of phase-in possiblities. Obama just wrote it off.

Part of the job of a President is to consider all options. Obama shortchanged the country when he didn't seriously consider systems in other countries, but instead immediately boxed us into a mandatory insurance scheme. He can call it anything he wants, but it won't be health care reform.

[QC]

63. It will be all "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!"

[ProSense]

43. No he didn't change his mind.

he has always said making the coverage affordable comes before mandates.

[slipslidingaway]

49. Read the recent Time interview, he said he changed his mind. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

61. Then obviously you can define 'affordable'

because if he is now for mandates, he must know that affordable is affordable, he must have numbers for us, or he does not know it is affordable. He said he changed his mind about mandates, after he made mandates into the primary difference between him and his rival.
He campaigned on no mandates, now he is for mandates, so other things he campaigned on are equally subject to change. He could 'change his mind' and support the best plan, the plan that many of his supporters want to see.
He campaigned on 'no mandated purchase' so now he's for them. But the rest, you claim has to be as it was on the trail. Except for what radically changes. Expect for what he changed, it has to remain the same?
Stretch to fit thinking.

[NYC_SKP]

36. Highly Recommended. And I hope that people will listen to what he says, not make things up.

Because we're better than that, aren't we?

Isn't it the other side that makes things up, draws inaccurate and misleading inferences?

We aren't all going to agree with his direction, but we don't have to twist his words and make things up.

Thanks for this post, ProSense.

NYC_SKP

:patriot:

[Cleita]

37. Just because you are cranky and don't want to pay attention

doesn't mean anyone is making anything up. It's really disingenuous of you to accuse people of something you could be guilty of. Project much?

[slipslidingaway]

38. I never saw the threads you mentioned stating that Obama was

against the public option and Obama never campaigned for individual mandates, but now says he has changed his mind.

:(

[debbierlus]

39. Right. He has no obligation to represent the American people over Big Insurance

And, what public option?

The house version that severely restricts enrollment, start date, and rates not tied to Medicare.

The Senate is pushing for co-ops.

Keep cheering the private insurance companies frontman.

Because that is what HE is.

Whatever.

[ProSense]

40. Clue: delivering on his campaign promises is representing the American people

Americans elected him to get health care reform passed, and he will deliver.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

47. Clue: we sure as hell better get a strong public option.

He said he was going to spend his political capital on healthcare.



I sure hope he does.

[ProSense]

44. More on single payer

here

[xchrom]

51. you're exactly right -- and i sincerely hope

every one who has not been a fan of obama's approach take's all of this to heart and remembers it in the next election cycle.

i know i will -- and have done.

[ProSense]

52. "every one who has not been a fan of obama's approach...remembers it in the next election cycle"

What difference is that going to make? They were never fans of Obama in the last election.

[xchrom]

53. they -- like me -- voted for him -- that's the difference, isn't it?

the expectation that this moderate to conservative democrat was going to be something different.

he will leave the corporate status quo largely in control of the public's lives -- a thing progressives should really take into consideration.

at some point -- at some point -- moderates have to be left on their own.

where that point is -- personally i can't say -- but it's out there.

is it with obama -? -- he's the one who stated he would be willing to be a one term president over it -- i'm willing to take him at his word.

you are willing to get a program easily dismanteled once enacted.


fair trade if you ask me.

[ProSense]

54. Again, what difference will that make?

"at some point -- at some point -- moderates have to be left on their own."

Oh, I get it. You made your determination, speculated on the context of his entire term and implied that progressives should consider voting against Obama.

I have one response:


:rofl:

[ima_sinnic]

60. they might not have been "fans," but they voted for him anyway, as "lesser of 2 evils"

the folly of that attitude is becoming more & more obvious.
My vote will no longer be taken for granted. I don't care whether Republican Republicans or Democratic Republicans win now, I'll be voting for the candidate with a record of integrity, ethics, principles, progressive platform, and work for real change--in 2008, that would have been a write-in for Kucinich. That is whom I will vote for next time if there is no real and affordable "public option." Affordable health care, basically, for all Americans was a cornerstone of Obama's platform. If that does not become a reality, his "leadership" was a myth and a hoax.

[BlooInBloo]

56. I admire the dogged resoluteness with which you continue trying to reason with the irrational.

[paulk]

64. there are two sides to that coin

[leftofthedial]

57. so what?

Wrong is wrong. Just because he's been wrong for a long time doesn't make him right.

[ima_sinnic]

59. he doesn't seem to even be fighting for "a public option" anymore

where are the lightning-bolt responders to myths and rumors, the way he had them during his campaign?
If he truly wanted a "public option," he would be out squelching the arguments of the shitbagger corporate whore "protestors" in a way that wouldn't be missed. He would be explaining exactly what a "public option" meant. He'd be going point by point through their lies and explaining the truth, DAILY if necessary. He'd be calling Max Baucus in on the carpet and applying the pressure of his office to ensure that what he promised--"discussions" that would include ALL SIDES--was delivered. He didn't say shit when Baucus had drs & nurses arrested and closed the door on "hearings" and "discussion," the same way Cheney closed the door on energy "discussions."
I see a timid, wishy washy approach that is not doing shit. If I am forced to buy health insurance, I will have people like you with their head in the sand to thank.

[OneBlueSky]

65. no, he certainly isn't . . . unless, of course, he really wants healthcare reform . . .

and not just a bunch of smoke and mirror changes that accomplish little other than ensuring continued increasing profits for insurance and pharmaceutical industries . . .

seems to me that the smoke and the mirrors are being readied as we speak . . .

[Political Tiger]

69. TRUTH! n/t

[Touchdown]

70. He also said "This debate is not about me. It's about you. The American People."

And what the majority of Americans want is single payer. Anything less will not fix the problem.

Ball's in your court Jack.