Dean will get my vote on this fact alone......

[doubles]

The fact that when EVERY other Democrat watched and supported Bush as he turned this country against all principles it was built on, and kept QUIET because they were AFRAID to stand up to the Bushitas. I am convinced that if it weren't for Dean and his valor, NONE of these morons would have spoke up against the war!

Thank you Howard Dean, thanks you for starting the debate against this administration, I don't care what they say, you have my vote!

[cindyw]

1. Name a instance of this and a date please.

Show me where Dean was doing this and I'll show you where another Dem was too.

[cavebat2000]

9. I saw several videos of Dean condeming the war in Iraq

Just before we were going into Iraq. With the exception of Kucinich Carol, and MAYBE Clark, the other candidates were all voting FOR the war! Bull sh**. I agree. And for Clark to just all of the sudden change positions, doesn't even come close the the dedicated dissent from Dean. Go DEAN

[mike_c]

33. Clark was making statements in support of the invasion...

...on CNN in those days, although his supporters are trying hard to spin this into oblivion.

[SahaleArm]

46. Clark was testifying for multilateral disarmament in front of Congress...

While Dean was chanting mantras to his supporters.

[Colin Ex]

92. He who asserts must prove.

Got a link handy?

-C

[DemBones DemBones]

81. DK was condemning the invasion a year before it took place, was HD?

DK spoke at rallies and marched for peace, did HD?

The answer to both questions is "NO."

Howard Dean was NOT the first to speak out against invading Iraq.

Howard Dean has NEVER attended a peace rally, march for peace, or civil rights demonstration. Not as a college student (though he claims to have been opposed to the Viet Nam war) and not since then.

[liberalnurse]

25. Dean is a leader.....He deserves the

the complement. He earned it. He has given us hope. The others may of mentioned it, even argue a bit, like Kucinich...but Dean has taken us to the top! Rove and *bush are nervous. We have Dean to thank for that. The other candidates running also know this. That is why they try to emulate his campaign.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

56. Kucinich was the leader - Dean, the follower

More revisionist history from the Dean camp ... will it ever end?

[w4rma]

96. Sunday, October 6, 2002

…
Speaking at a fundraising dinner filled with activists wary about going to war again in the Persian Gulf again, Sens. John F. Kerry (Mass.) and John Edwards (N.C.), and Vermont Gov. Howard Dean highlight the spectrum of opinion within the Democratic Party as lawmakers in Washington prepare to vote on a resolution authorizing war.
…
Dean, whose advocacy of liberal domestic policies has struck a chord among grass-roots activists here, offered the sharpest dissent. He contended that Bush has yet to make a compelling case to justify going to war.

"The greatest fear I have about Iraq is not just that we will engage in unwise conduct and send our children to die without having an adequate explanation from the president of the United States," he said. "The greater fear I have is the president has never said what the truth is, which is if we go into Iraq we will be there for 10 years to build that democracy and the president must tell us that before we go."
…
http://www.dre-mfa.gov.ir/eng/iraq/iraqanalysis_27.html

[ThirdWheelLegend]

99. February 2002, before Kucinich was drafted to be a candidate

These are words against the current administration. This is passion and honesty.


http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech1.htm

A Prayer for America

(to be sung as an overture for America) "My country 'tis of thee. Sweet land of liberty of thee I sing. . . .
From every mountain side, let freedom ring. . . . Long may our land be bright. With freedom's holy light. . . ."
" Oh say does that star spangled banner yet wave. O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?"
"America, America, God shed grace on thee. And crown thy good with brotherhood from sea to shining sea. . . . "

I offer these brief remarks today as a prayer for our country, with love of democracy, as a celebration of our country. With love for our country.With hope for our country. With a belief that the light of freedom cannot be extinguished as long as it is inside of us. With a belief that freedom rings resoundingly in a democracy each time we speak freely. With the understanding that freedom stirs the human heart and fear stills it. With the belief that a free people cannot walk in fear and faith at the same time.

With the understanding that there is a deeper truth expressed in the unity of the United States. That implicate in the union of our country is the union of all people. That all people are essentially one. That the world is interconnected not only on the material level of economics, trade, communication, and transportation, but innerconnected through human consciousness, through the human heart, through the heart of the world, through the simply expressed impulse and yearning to be and to breathe free. I offer this prayer for America.

Let us pray that our nation will remember that the unfolding of the promise of democracy in our nation paralleled the striving for civil rights. That is why we must challenge the rationale of the Patriot Act. We must ask why should America put aside guarantees of constitutional justice?

How can we justify in effect canceling the First Amendment and the right of free speech, the right to peaceably assemble?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Fourth Amendment, probable cause, the prohibitions against unreasonable search and seizure?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Fifth Amendment, nullifying due process, and allowing for indefinite incarceration without a trial?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Sixth Amendment, the right to prompt and public trial?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Eighth Amendment which protects against cruel and unusual punishment?

We cannot justify widespread wiretaps and internet surveillance without judicial supervision, let alone with it. We cannot justify secret searches without a warrant. We cannot justify giving the Attorney General the ability to designate domestic terror groups. We cannot justify giving the FBI total access to any type of data which may exist in any system anywhere such as medical records and financial records.

We cannot justify giving the CIA the ability to target people in this country for intelligence surveillance. We cannot justify a government which takes from the people our right to privacy and then assumes for its own operations a right to total secrecy. The Attorney General recently covered up a statue of Lady Justice showing her bosom as if to underscore there is no danger of justice exposing herself at this time, before this administration.

Let us pray that our nation's leaders will not be overcome with fear. Because today there is great fear in our great Capitol. And this must be understood before we can ask about the shortcomings of Congress in the current environment. The great fear began when we had to evacuate the Capitol on September 11. It continued when we had to leave the Capitol again when a bomb scare occurred as members were pressing the CIA during a secret
briefing. It continued when we abandoned Washington when anthrax, possibly from a government lab, arrived in the mail. It continued when the Attorney General declared a nationwide terror alert and then the Administration
brought the destructive Patriot Bill to the floor of the House. It continued in the release of the Bin Laden tapes at the same time the President was announcing the withdrawal from the ABM treaty. It remains present in the
cordoning off of the Capitol. It is present in the camouflaged armed national guardsmen who greet members of Congress each day we enter the Capitol campus. It is present in the labyrinth of concrete barriers through which we must pass each time we go to vote. The trappings of a state of siege trap us in a state of fear, ill equipped to deal with the Patriot Games, the Mind Games, the War Games of an unelected President and his unelected Vice President.

Let us pray that our country will stop this war. "To promote the common defense" is one of the formational principles of America. Our Congress gave the President the ability to respond to the tragedy of September the Eleventh. We licensed a response to those who helped bring the terror of September the Eleventh. But we the people and our elected representatives must reserve the right to measure the response, to proportion the response, to challenge the response, and to correct the response.

Because we did not authorize the invasion of Iraq.
We did not authorize the invasion of Iran.
We did not authorize the invasion of North Korea.
We did not authorize the bombing of civilians in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize permanent detainees in Guantanamo Bay.
We did not authorize the withdrawal from the Geneva Convention.
We did not authorize military tribunals suspending due process and habeas corpus.
We did not authorize assassination squads.
We did not authorize the resurrection of COINTELPRO.
We did not authorize the repeal of the Bill of Rights.
We did not authorize the revocation of the Constitution.
We did not authorize national identity cards.
We did not authorize the eye of Big Brother to peer from cameras throughout our cities.
We did not authorize an eye for an eye.
Nor did we ask that the blood of innocent people, who perished on September 11, be avenged with the blood of innocent villagers in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize the administration to wage war anytime, anywhere, anyhow it pleases.
We did not authorize war without end.
We did not authorize a permanent war economy.

Yet we are upon the threshold of a permanent war economy. The President has requested a $45.6 billion increase in military spending. All defense-related programs will cost close to $400 billion. Consider that the Department of
Defense has never passed an independent audit. Consider that the Inspector General has notified Congress that the Pentagon cannot properly account for $1.2 trillion in transactions. Consider that in recent years the Dept. of
Defense could not match $22 billion worth of expenditures to the items it purchased, wrote off, as lost, billions of dollars worth of in-transit inventory and stored nearly $30 billion worth of spare parts it did not need.

Yet the defense budget grows with more money for weapons systems to fight a cold war which ended, weapon systems in search of new enemies to create new wars. This has nothing to do with fighting terror. This has everything to do with fueling a military industrial machine with the treasure of our nation, risking the future of our nation, risking democracy itself with the militarization of thought which follows the militarization of the budget.

Let us pray for our children. Our children deserve a world without end. Not a war without end. Our children deserve a world free of the terror of hunger, free of the terror of poor health care, free of the terror of homelessness, free of the terror of ignorance, free of the terror of hopelessness, free of the terror of policies which are committed to a world view which is not appropriate for the survival of a free people, not appropriate for the survival of democratic values, not appropriate for the survival of our nation, and not appropriate for the survival of the world.

Let us pray that we have the courage and the will as a people and as a nation to shore ourselves up, to reclaim from the ruins of September the Eleventh our democratic traditions. Let us declare our love for democracy. Let us declare our intent for peace. Let us work to make nonviolence an organizing principle in our own society. Let us recommit ourselves to the slow and painstaking work of statecraft, which sees peace, not war as being inevitable. Let us work for a world where someday war becomes archaic.

That is the vision which the proposal to create a Department of Peace envisions. Forty-three members of congress are now cosponsoring the legislation. Let us work for a world where nuclear disarmament is an imperative. That is why we must begin by insisting on the commitments of the ABM treaty. That is why we must be steadfast for nonproliferation.

Let us work for a world where America can lead the way in banning weapons of mass destruction not only from our land and sea and sky but from outer space itself. That is the vision of HR 3616: A universe free of fear. Where we can look up at God's creation in the stars and imagine infinite wisdom, infinite peace, infinite possibilities, not infinite war, because we are taught that the kingdom will come on earth as it is in heaven.

Let us pray that we have the courage to replace the images of death which haunt us, the layers of images of September the Eleventh, faded into images of patriotism, spliced into images of military mobilization, jump cut into
images of our secular celebrations of the World Series, New Year's Eve, the Superbowl, the Olympics, the strobic flashes which touch our deepest fears, let us replace those images with the work of human relations, reaching out to people, helping our own citizens here at home, lifting the plight of the poor everywhere. That is the America which has the ability to rally the support of the world. That is the America which stands not in pursuit of an axis of evil, but which is itself at the axis of hope and faith and peace and freedom.

America, America. God shed grace on thee. Crown thy good, America. Not with weapons of mass destruction. Not with invocations of an axis of evil. Not through breaking international treaties. Not through establishing America as king of a unipolar world. Crown thy good America.

America, America. Let us pray for our country. Let us love our country. Let us defend our country not only from the threats without but from the threats within. Crown thy good, America. Crown thy good with brotherhood, and sisterhood. And crown thy good with compassion and restraint and forbearance and a commitment to peace, to democracy, to economic justice here at home and throughout the world. Crown thy good, America. Crown thy good America. Crown thy good.

Thank you.

[Cha]

2. Thanks, doubles! Welcome to the campaign!

:toast:

[candy331]

15. Doubles, I like your words

I believe if the others were speaking up they would have captured the medias attention also. For instance if Gephardt had loudly declared in that garden that "I cannot in good conscience vote yes because we need more information" instead of grinning with Bush I believe he would have gotten media attention for that bold statement. Dean speaks up and they keep saying his mouth gets him in trouble but that's because people want to be spoon fed half truths. I have wavered on Dean a few times listening to too much flak but still with him. I am Dean 1st and Clark 2nd.

[cthrumatrix]

26. totally agree...people forgot about that...Dean was a lone candle for

truth

[bearfartinthewoods]

49. too bad it takes more than 30 percent to win

[TLM]

73. Flawed premise....

not every voter is a one issue voter, and not every one issue voter is voting on this issue.

Just because somebody would prefer a dem who was for the war, like Clark, that's not an indication they won't vote for a dem who was against the war.

But nice try.

[MuseRider]

3. Sounds like you

are commited but have some studying to do.

[DancingBear]

7. I had to read this twice

to make sure there was no double entendre intended!


:) :)

[CTLawGuy]

8. its nice to speak out against the war,

but if you can't reach anyone, what good is it? Kucinich and Dean started out in the EXACT same place, no money, no name ID and an opposition to the war. Dennis needs to find a way to get his message out like Dean did.

and don't tell me that the media just likes Dean for whatever reason. The difference is that Dean was able to get his message to people. Dennis needs to figure out how to do that. he is a good man and I wish he would run for senate in OH

[MuseRider]

19. Did I say something

to earn this little dis? No, I was only replying to the original post and did not mention candidates at all. You guys might need to take a rest here. If I felt a need to justify my support to you I might craft a reply but I don't.

[CTLawGuy]

34. well, its not meant as a dis,

I think kucinich is a good guy. But it sounded like you were implying that the original poster didnt look hard enough to find a candidate (that he/she should have looked at kucinich).

My point is that if people dont see kucinich, then he needs to work harder to get his message out

[MuseRider]

35. It is apparent

that this poster knows very little about what the others have done but I did not mention my candidate or anyone else. K?

[CTLawGuy]

41. yes that is evident

sorry if I offended you, but a lot of Kucinich people have been frustrated that Kucinich was anti-war but cannot get as much traction as Dean.

[no name no slogan]

69. Kucinich was working, while Dean was grandstanding

Don't forget that at the time, DK was organizing opposition to the IWR in the House of Representatives, and has continued to serve his district all through his campaign-- which only started in February 2003.

Dean, OTOH, was out of the governor's office by then and had plenty of time to campaign on this issue in front of anybody that would listen to him.

While Dean was attending anti-war rallies, Kucinich and Sharpton were speaking to them. DK has also continued to press for the withdrawal of our troops (replaced by UN peacekeepers), while Dean continues to think that we can somehow achieve "peace with honor", just like LBJ did.

While Dean may get more press attention, Kucinich has consistently led on this issue, since February 2002.

[MuseRider]

82. Thank you NNNS.

I was just too dumbfounded last night and tired to fight this one. He was doing his job, for us, no grandstanding, just doing what was right.

[RafterMan]

39. if you can't reach anyone, what good is it?

Uh, Dean didn't stop the war either, IIRC.

[Nadienne]

70. A question:

If Dean and Kucinich started out in the same place (zero support), what did Dean do that got him media attention?

The first debate I saw (back in the summer months) seemed like a Dean vs Kerry fest, and the media reaction seemed to amplify their disagreements, rather than focus on policy differences.

And I could be mistaken, but it seems as though that's when Dean's support grew.

What, oh what am I suggesting?

The mainstream media is biased. They prefer to report blood and discord rather than legitimate news. Perhaps Dean knew/knows this and took advantage of that knowledge to inspire the support he gained. If that's what you gotta do to get media coverage...

Which may explain why Kucinich didn't get much media coverage.

[corporatewhore]

87. well actually they did not start off in the same place

in terms of money dean took donations from big corps and hawkish goups like AIPAC kucinich hasnot and willnot

[Lone Pawn]

4. You're certainly committed

You made enough anti-Clark threads for him.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cavebat2000]

12. Sorry... lol

I saw videos... lol I dont need any more proof against your argument.

[CTLawGuy]

16. yeah, Dean was for the war all right

:crazy: thats why he got painted an anti-war liberal by the media, branded unelectable by nearly everyone, and why he made the "gaffe" of saying we werent safer after Saddam was caught.

Please!


Kerry should have fought for B-L because it would have limited bush's military power to getting rid of WMD ONLY, not to make Iraq the 51st state!

But I guess when you have foreign policy experience, you know the best war to oppose the war is to vote for the war resolution.

[doubles]

24. Dean was correct!!!!

"and why he made the "gaffe" of saying we werent safer after Saddam was caught."

Dean was correct in that statement.

BTW, Dean supported the war against the Taliban!

[MercutioATC]

40. Ahhh...the "Anti-war Kerry" claim again...

He voted in favor of the IWR. Period.

He had the option to vote against it in protest (even though the Repubs would have passed it anyway). He chose not to. If you can't see the difference between the IWR and Biden-Lugar, there's no convincing you, but the fact is that Kerry voted FOR the IWR.

[zulchzulu]

52. Oh, innocent simplistic minds...

Kerry voted for the IWR to get the UN to continue inspections and get a multinational force to go in a disarm Saddam if inspections could not continue. The use of force was to be as a last resort.

Bush lied to Kerry and the World about phony WMD threats as well as gave the finger to the IWR by attacking unilaterally and kicking the UN out.

That's what happened. Period.

[TLM]

76. Kerry's campaign on the idea of getting UN support for Iraq....

Clearly Kerry is a two-faced liar who attacked the UN one day to take a shot at Dean, then hid behind claims he was just trying to get the UN back in Iraq when his cowardly support for Bush's war came back to bite him in the ass.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/25/opinion/lynch/main541905.shtml

"Kerry's campaign manager, Jim Jordan, snapped at Dean's insistence on getting U.N. backing (a position supported by three-quarters of Democrats and 53 percent of Independents). "Gov. Dean, in effect, seems to be giving the U.N. veto power over national security decisions of the United States. That's an extraordinary proposition, one never endorsed by any U.S. president or serious candidate for the presidency," he told the Associated Press' Ron Fournier. "

[JVS]

55. I believe that he publicly criticized the bill and then voted for it

[zulchzulu]

60. "You believe...."

You're wrong.

[MercutioATC]

71. Wrong about what? Criticizing it or voting for it?

Seems to me he did both. I've heard all of the arguments, but I believe there are times to dig in your heels and loudly vote "no"...making as big a fuss and drawing as much attention as possible while doing so. Kerry's not alone in this...most legislators found it politically expedient to vote with the polls. I just disagree with the decision.

[TLM]

75. Kerry attacked Dean for wanting the UN behind action in Iraq.

Do not try to hide Kerry' two faced crap now that it has backfired on him.

Kerry said that seeking UN backing in Iraq was giving the UN veto power over the US national security, when Dean was the one saying we need to get the Un behind action in Iraq.

[ozone_man]

6. Well, to be fair,

Kucinich voted against the war, while Dean has shown a consistent record of opposing it. Dean has earned my vote on this issue alone, and has earned it many times over with other issues, such as health care, civil unions, education, etc..

[wyldwolf]

10. Dean will get your vote on this fact alone......

...that you have bought into the Dean hype and haven't really studied his history and record.

[MuseRider]

21. Or anyone elses. n/t

[Bread and Circus]

32. True 'dat, boss

[maddezmom]

11. guess ya haven't been listening to anyone else

glad you found you candidate :)

[realdem]

13. Absolutely

While CLark was getting big bucks on CNN and keeping his mouth shut, Dean was out there speaking the truth.

[YellowDawgDemocrat]

17. Darn right!

And if anybody thinks they can use the Dean movement for a springboard and expect his supporters to just shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, we gave it a try"...you can forget that.

[KissMyAsscroft]

30. You are exactly right.

Clark was a media whore.

[Military Brat]

14. It's good to appreciate the one with the courage of his convictions

I think Dean has taken a lot of crap, I mean a lot of crap, for being against the war in Iraq. I appreciate anyone who has been able to stand up to bush, no matter who they are or whatever the situation. And that of course applies to a lot of DU'ers who have been whapped up the side of the head by freepers simply because we state the obvious about bush and Iraq and the so-called war on terrorism which is really a war on our collective future.

Dean may shoot from the hip, but he sure is right on target most of the time.

[salinen]

22. What about DK?

Nothin' pro-war about DK.

[MuseRider]

28. WHO? n/t

[diamondsoul]

64. ROTFL

Ok, it was either laugh or cry over that one and I needed the laugh!

Aye yai yai sometimes I wish he wasn't running right now, for utterly selfish reasons. :(

[MuseRider]

83. Yup,

I got a bruise on my forehead during this thread. Never used to bang my head against the wall but these days.....

[blm]

18. Hahah...Dean was FOR Bush deciding use of force

in the bill he supported. That was at the same time as the iWR vote that he uses to label others prowar. The B-L was just as prowar as IWR, but Dean knew people wouldn't connect that fact for the most part. Too bad some realized his duplicity.

>>>>>>>>
The only awkward moment for Dean came when Katheleen Belgard, a 17-year-old Concord High School student and Kerry supporter, asked how he could portray himself as so clearly antiwar when he had supported an alternative congressional resolution (known as Biden-Lugar) that would have given the president authority to wage war against Iraq after securing a UN Security Council resolution requiring disarmament or, failing that, upon his declaration that Iraq constituted a grave threat.

Dean replied that he had initially supported Biden-Lugar because "I think the president deserves the presumption of right on his side in foreign policy. I wanted to give this president as much leeway as we could." (Imagine what Dean would say if John Kerry or Dick Gephardt had made that statement.) But Dean also noted that he had made a speech on Sept. 21, 2002, setting out his opposition to the war. However, Dean was still expressing support for Biden-Lugar in early October; at about that time, the authors of the resolution decided not to press forward with it.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/01/07/nh_voters_eyeing_two_non_deans/

[TLM]

78. Biden Lugar was not the IWR... no matter how much you want it to be

to cover Kerry's supporting Bush's war.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, October 2, 2002

WASHINGTON - The American Civil Liberties Union today said that a bipartisan Senate compromise on a resolution allowing the President to use force to oust Saddam Hussein is far more faithful to the Constitution than the blank check resolution being lobbied for by the White House.

"Thankfully, this compromise embodies the lessons learned from the Gulf of Tonkin incident," said Timothy Edgar, an ACLU Legislative Counsel. "Granting the President a blank check to engage in overseas adventures is a recipe for human tragedy. This compromise resolution acknowledges those lessons."

In its letter to the Senate, the ACLU reiterated that it is neutral on whether the United States should go to war. However, it told the Senate that it remains firm in its conviction that the Constitutional obligations on Congress to make decisions about war need to be respected, especially with foreign policy questions of this magnitude.

The new resolution, negotiated by Senate Foreign Relations Chairman Joseph Biden (D-DE) and Former Chairman Richard Lugar (R-IN), eliminates most of the similarities between the resolution the President wanted and the disastrous Gulf of Tonkin resolution, which led to a decade-long morass in which tens of thousands of Americans lost their lives.

Specifically, the Biden-Lugar compromise:

Clearly identifies the enemy. The proposed resolution closes the door to regional adventures in the Middle East. Under the proposed compromise, the President would have to seek additional Congressional authorization if he wished to widen the conflict in the region.

Spells out clear military objectives. Congress would hold a tight leash on the current conflict. This would be in marked contrast to its role in the Vietnam War, which was lost in part because of nebulous war aims. The Biden-Lugar compromise realizes the folly of sending troops into harm's way without delineating the specific military objectives to be accomplished.

Reaffirms the American conviction that war-making power should lie with the people. In contrast with the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, the Biden-Lugar compromise would respect the ongoing prerogatives of Congress during military engagement. The Constitution demands that American military decisions involving the use of force rest only with the people's representatives in Congress.

The ACLU's letter on the Biden-Lugar compromise can be found at:
http://archive.aclu.org/congress/l100202a.html

[Colin Ex]

94. Still, man... Two things.

A) "I think the president deserves the presumption of right on his side in foreign policy. I wanted to give this president as much leeway as we could." Isn't that still kind of a sketchy statement?

2) And a constitutional rush to war is still a rush to war and still wrong. I mean, it's not like Biden Lugar was anti-war by any means, right?

-C

[ThirdWheelLegend]

100. "not like Biden Lugar was anti-war by any means"

bingo!


TWL

[JI7]

20. ever hear of a guy named Kucinich ?

?

[TLM]

77. That's pretty much the problem, ain't it?

nobody herd kucinich... HELLO!?

[DemBones DemBones]

84. Ever asked yourself WHY the media has not

paid attention to DK, but has paid attention to HD and credited him with being anti-war?

My take on it is that the media will always give the most attention to the candidate that they judge to be the most supportive of their interests.

Thus, HD gets attention because he is friendly to corporate interests (check his record in Vermont) while DK is ignored because he is anything but friendly to monopolies, such as the media monopolies (check his record in Ohio as well as in D.C.)

I don't think the media care what else a candidate supports as long as he is no threat to their interests. It remains to be seen whether they will give any Democrat a fair representation against Bush in the general election campaign. I think they believe they'll be safe with Dean or Bush, though.

[MODemocrat]

23. I concur; and Dean has my vote until Hell freezes over

He may not be the most polished politician in the world, but he had the guts to stand up to the Bush Administration; and because of this, others have begun to stand up to them too. He is responsible for bringing to light many of the bungles Bush has made. He is resilient and refuses to lay down and let the enemies walk on him. I admire him so much.



:thumbsup: :hi: :dem:

[KissMyAsscroft]

27. I agree 1 million percent.

Clark was on CNN doing a play by play on the war like it was the fucking Superbowl.

Only Dean represented my view of this illegal and immoral war.

[RetroLounge]

29. Dean was out in front on this issue as usual.

It's not why I'm voting for him, but it is why I initially became a supporter.

and anyone who thinks it's because I'm deleuded, tricked, kool-aid drinking, or ignorant can f*ck off. You won't change any minds that way, and will just lose support for your candidate.

and lets be fair, DK was out there on this too, the press just didn't cover him like he deserved to be. Which like it or not, made him NOT a major candidate in most peoples eyes, because they never saw him, and that's a shame, but that's the way the press is.

Clark. IMO, just made money off the war by becoming a CNN stooge. Sure, he couldn't talk out against the war, as an employee of CNN, but that was his choice. I think if he wasn't on CNN, and had decided then to become a Democrat and run for Prez, he would have been out there with Dean and DK also, but I guess we'll never know.

[mike_c]

Dean and Kucinich....

Let's give credit where credit is due....

[info being]

62. And Sharpton

[Bread and Circus]

31. Boy, you are in to tall tales as much as Dean...

Are you sure EVERY other Democrat stood idle?

I am sure Kucinich would like to differ with that statement
seeing as how he actually voted AGAINST the IWR when Dean
only stated that we should wait 30 to 60 days.

But go ahead, have your fantasy.

[adamrsilva]

36. Anti-war would not be a stance

DK would be the only one saying anything, but he'd be completely ignored. For Lieb and Geph, it's not an issue. Kerry and Clark would saying the war was right, but the methods are wrong.

[Jerseycoa]

53. Where?

Link for Clark saying the war was RIGHT ever?

[ThirdWheelLegend]

37. Since that is not a fact, I am confused, do you support Dean?

"I am convinced that if it weren't for Dean and his valor, NONE of these morons would have spoke up against the war!"

Who convinced you of that? The media, or Dean's TV ad LIE, or his brochure LIE?

Inquiring minds want to know.


TWL

[w13rd0]

38. I was one of those that participated in marches...

...and wrote letters to senators and congressman. Then they gave the son of a bitch a blank check, Jean Carnahan lost her seat to Jim Talent(less), and a .5% shift in the electorate was spun as a "positive referendum" on "Bush's agenda" and I was SO PISSED OFF. MILLIONS worldwide in the streets, and no one listened, it just didn't matter.

Dean has inspired me to get involved, in more than bitching on a bulletin board and complaining to my friends. He's made me and thousands of others feel that not only is it OK to stand up to Bush, but it is ESSENTIAL to the health and well-being of our democracy that we oust these corrupt corporate fraudulent shills.

[PassingFair]

95. Well done, w13rdO!

Goes for the repukes AND the compromised dems who went along to get along. I'm batting for Dean.

[doubles]

42. When the Administration was using intimidation tactics against citizens...

for protesting the war, Dean was the only voice in our corner. The populace was almost afraid to publicly and openly criticize Bush out of fear of backlash from Ashcroft and his Patriot act practices. Because of Dean, people are more comfortable criticizing the administration, we have a semi-democracy again. Credit to Gore as well for his speech I believe it was out west criticizing the Admin, back then he had a beard.

[shance]

43. Thank you Doubles - you said it all right there.

I remember looking at most of the candidates at one point, wondering if any were truly what I believed to be presidential. And then I had the opportunity to meet and hear Dean speak and I remember feeling in a weird way - safe, understood and hopeful for the first time in a very long time. Needless to say it was a welcomed feeling. My friend who went with me to the event mentioned having a similar experience.

Dean offers a feeling of understanding and leadership that makes supporters like me feel confident, hopeful and inspired to support and defend him, because he is such a diamond in the rough.

We are so lucky in the Democratic party to have such an incredible candidate!!!

Howard Dean was the candidate who stood up first and allowed and even elevated the caliber of issues being discussed and forced every other candidate, atleast those that had the guts to leave their safety box, to talk about real and uncomfortable (or inconvenient*) issues.

Now, with all the pressure being toppled on him and his campaign, along with alot at stake, we know he is going to make mistakes and waver here and there.

We also need to remember the media has, and will continue to distort situations in order to insinuate Dean has done something wrong, when in fact they are essentially attempting to create false illusions to make those illusions appear real.

Not to mention, many in the media are being paid to attack him unfairly.

So, when we are feeling a little self-righteous, we need to ask ourselves what would we in his (or any other candidates) situation?

[DemBones DemBones]

59. Kucinich was a VOTE, not just a voice,

in our corner. And a VOTE against the Patriot Act as well.

Kucinich also did NOT stop criticizing the Bush administration's illegal invasion of Iraq once it began. Dean made a statement the day of the invasion that he would no longer criticize Bush. Kucinich made a statement the same day saying he supported the troops and prayed for their safe return but also saying the war was wrong and should end immediately.

[info being]

63. Exactly. But most people here fall for the rhetoric and posturing

That's the part I don't understand about the Dems and the part that embarasses me to support this party. We need to be more concerned with the actual record, not what sounds good.

[blm]

65. Baloney. Dean only switched to antiwar when the crowds grew.

He wasn't antiwar before that. He supported Biden-Lugar to give Bush use of force powers. Barely different than IWR.

YOU and others may have fallen for his dog and pony show, but many others have not and WILL not.

[diamondsoul]

66. What rot.

Kucinich was out there MARCHING with protesters, organizing the House resistance, VOTING against it and making floor speeches criticising this administration in March of 2002, thanks very much!

Are you one of the people responsbile for that ridiculous flyer touting Dean as "THE ONLY ONE WHO OPPOSED THE WAR FROM THE BEGINNING" too?

[Clark Campaigner]

44. but Dean praised Bush after the 2000 election

and said he was a moderate and would be re-elected!

[Printer70]

45. Thank you for that

It had to be said. Howard's stand in the face of a "groupthink" that permeated the entire nation during the rush to war in Iraq will go down in political history as a true profile in courage. He was a bulwark for peace and didn't care what the consequences would be. The war went awry in its aftermath, and Howard's concerns were justified.

[mb7588a]

47. "starting the debate against this administration"?

You're off your horse, doubles. Some folks have been doing it since 2000.

[sandnsea]

48. Bush is stronger than ever

Everybody seems to just brush aside a terrorist attack on the country. Laws had to be passed because of it and had to be passed quickly. If you think Democrats lost bad in 2002, what do you think would have happened if they'd blocked legislation to deal with terrorism? Is common sense completely abandoned?

In any event, Kucinich fought against all of it, even though I think it was a mistake and hurt the Democrats more than helped.

Kerry came out against Bush about Tora Bora and his war mongering way before Dean did. While Dean was saying we shouldn't criticize the President.

They held up the tax cuts to get help for low-income people, stopped the energy bill, stopped the worst of the judicial appointments, forced Bush to the UN, etc. They did not just roll over and play dead.

The fact is that the majority of the country wants legislation like the Patriot Act and Homeland Security. NCLB was a Ted Kennedy education bill. George Bush and Colin Powell laid out a plan to Congress to work with the UN on Iraq and then abused their power to go to war.

Howard Dean did nothing about any of this, he has no power. Bush continues to rise in the polls because the majority of Americans think Howard Dean is a nut. He's lost any credibility he ever hoped to have with some of his loony statements. His religious pandering is making him look even more foolish.

This whole Dean took it to Bush thing is ridiculous.

[quaker bill]

50. I agree, this alone is enough

But once you understand where he is comming from there are many more good reasons.

His understanding of the relationship of citizen to government is distict from all the other candidates. The campaign is a reflection of this.

The many of the other candidates (Dk excepted) are running on the same general meme in this regard as the republicans have been since the 1980's. They only adjust the parameters differently. More tax cut here, less there. 'Strong on defense' but with a somewhat different management style, however, apparently they still believe that weapons rather than relationships are our best defense.

Targeted tax incentives to business, just with different targets.

Various proposals to help the employed middle class, but little discussion of help for the chronically poor.

Deficit spenders, just less so.

I simply desire a more radical change than most of the rest offer.

[youngred]

51. Sorry he wasn't the only one, or even the first

Kucinich was the first to oppose the Iraq war and one of the few to oppose the PATRIOT Act. Sharpton got out the good fight for a long time as one of the few who would criticize Bush. Even Kerry has had continued criticism of Bush even if he's been afraid to go against him on the major issues.

The only person to completely suck up to Bush has been Lieberman.

Howard Dean is the most vocal, but he hardly stands alone

[Snivi Yllom]

54. Dean is the best on the Iraq issue

Clark 2nd best.

I dont count Kucinich as he is a joke in the polls.

[zulchzulu]

61. Having it both ways is not a good stance, imo

Dean was for it and then Trippi told him he should be against it.

[youngred]

68. joke?

he's polling the same that Clinton was at this point of the race, and last time I checked biased polls were not what we used to elect our leaders.

Dean and Clark have good Iraq policies, but they are not the only ones, nor the best.

[Colin Ex]

93. That's a pretty mean thing to say.

I mean, he's running for office, isn't he?

Doesn't that mean his views should be counted?

-C

[bitchkitty]

57. Please be fair -

Dennis Kucinich spoke out against the war. I'm a Dean supporters, but I love Dennis!

[DemBones DemBones]

58. Dennis J. Kucinich spoke out more than a year before

the invasion was launched. (In February, 2002; the invasion was in March 2003.) When did Howard Dean first speak against the Iraq invasion?

Dennis Kucinich has been standing up to the Bush administration, on the war and other issues, in the House and in public speeches, interviews, etc., since they took power. Kucinich is the only candidate who had to cast a vote on the war and voted "No." He's introduced at least one resolution aimed at ending the war in the House, and filed at least one lawsuit to end the war, filing against George W. Bush.

Your vote is your decision but please get your facts straight about the candidates instead of buying into the limited information the media present as representing the facts.

You might also want to ask yourself why the media presented Dean as "the antiwar candidate" and disregarded Kucinich. And Moseley-Braun. And Sharpton. All three have stood up to the Bush administration against this war.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

67. Ignoring Kucinich or simply unaware?

Kucinich is the head of the Progressive Caucus in the House. He sponsors real legislation. He proposed a Department of Peace before 9/11.

He also said this in a speech on 2/17/02(yes 2002)

"Because we did not authorize the invasion of Iraq.
We did not authorize the invasion of Iran.
We did not authorize the invasion of North Korea.
We did not authorize the bombing of civilians in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize permanent detainees in Guantanamo Bay.
We did not authorize the withdrawal from the Geneva Convention.
We did not authorize military tribunals suspending due process and habeas corpus.
We did not authorize assassination squads.
We did not authorize the resurrection of COINTELPRO.
We did not authorize the repeal of the Bill of Rights.
We did not authorize the revocation of the Constitution.
We did not authorize national identity cards.
We did not authorize the eye of Big Brother to peer from cameras throughout our cities.
We did not authorize an eye for an eye.
Nor did we ask that the blood of innocent people, who perished on September 11, be avenged with the blood of innocent villagers in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize the administration to wage war anytime, anywhere, anyhow it pleases.
We did not authorize war without end.
We did not authorize a permanent war economy."

I urge you to check out the true voice of the people. The one who is the TRUE opposite of Bush.

http://www.kucinich.us/

TWL

[Ficus]

72. Dean the peace candidate

except he's supported EVERY war in the last 10 years except that last one.

I don't hate Dean, but there is more than one anti-war candidate. Dennis ORGANIZED the opposition to the war in the house as leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus -

while Dean was campaigning.

[duvinnie]

74. i'm with ya

no doubt everyone who was begging and pleading with * not to go to war,
and ended up getting kicked in the face for their trouble, from their OWN
leadership (if you can call Kerry and Gephardt leaders) finally heard a lone
voice in the wilderness opposing the madness. It was Dean, the guy with a
staff of 6 and 150K in his pocket. And that's how he came to be where he is,
in position to be OUR NEXT prez.

A lot of folks are not happy about that. I wonder what it is about taking a stand
on principle that bugs them so much?!

[Desertrose]

79. PUHLEESE!

Dennis Kucinich was not only speaking out but also voting against some of the most repressive RW BS booshwa tried to pass .

If you think Dean was the first to speak out on these things...please check your facts.

Dennis not only spoke out long before most were aware of what the current regime was really trying to do with their campaign of "terror and fear"...but the simple fact that he is in the Congress...he was actually able to do more than talk...he voted against .

"I am convinced that if it weren't for Dean and his valor, NONE of these morons would have spoke up against the war!"

Dean actually is, as you so kindly put it...one of the morons to whom you are referring...
You want changes- real changes - FOR the people???

VOTE KUCINICH:)

Peace
DR

[ThirdWheelLegend]

80. right on DR

REAL CHANGE FOR THE PEOPLE!


TWL

[ozone_man]

86. I sincerely hope

that if Dean makes it all the way, that there will be a role for Kucinich, but that's my own wishful thinking. I think everyone will acknowledge his anti-Iraq war positions, etc, and I agree with just about everything he says, I just don't think the rest of the country is ready for him. Maybe as the Greatest Depression gets underway by 2008, they will be.

[corporatewhore]

85. Kucinich has time after time stood up for us

[molly]

88. HUH?

Kerry started the debate against the admin years ago -so does he have your vote?

[Upfront]

89. That Is Where And Why

Dean won my vote. Go Dr. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lurk_no_more]

90. It's a damn good thing dean wasn't allowed

to vote for the IWR, otherwise he'd have nothing to distinguise himself from any of the others that voted exactly how he would have. Biben-Lugar was as different to the IWR as fried eggs are to scrambled, same eggs, different serving. He wanted eggs, just not scrambled.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[fernwoods]

91. Kucinich should get your vote, he voted against the war!

You have been listening to too many Dean ads that don't tell the truth. Kucinich is the one that has been against the war the whole time and the only candidate that voted against the war. Kucinich helped inspire a majority of House Democrats, 126, to vote last fall against the resolution authorizing President Bush to use force in Iraq. Dean and the media pretend Kucinich doesn't exist because they don't want you to know about him. Is this honest campaigning?

[PassingFair]

97. My Experience-

I heard Dean's speech in SanFrancisco and was knocked out of my chair. It came right on the heels of the Veterens for Peace press conference, the first time I heard someone talk about PNAC out loud and in front of the camera.
I could tell from Dean's language that he understood what we were up against, and he was willing to risk everything to crush *.
Then I SOUGHT Dr. Dean out. I went to hear him speak in person. This was the first time I had been moved to do so. I was not moved by FOX News, or any media barrage or campaign literature. Dean got me off my sorry ASS and got me involved.
Yes, Dennis K was also on the right side. I like Dennis. Did he inspire me to drag my kids out to a political rally? No.
Dean has real charisma. He has momentum. He has the characteristics necessary to unseat the usurper.

[corporatewhore]

98. another perspective

I saw dean at satillo plaza at austin was not too inspired but curious then at the National Campus Greens Convention i saw Dennis Kucinich speak.I was totally blown away he hit on the issues and gave me hope.He touched on ending the School of Americas Signing kyoto non poliferation acts returning america as a shining leaderin human rights and environmentally and helping to lift up the rest of the world. I had seen Noam Chomsky a while before and he told us that as americans we have the ability to change the world since it is the superpower. He made me get off my sorry ass campaign for a dem (gasp) instead of holding nose or not voting at all

[ThirdWheelLegend]

101. "First, defeat the threat posed by terrorists, tyrants..."

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_foreign


Kucinich is the voice of peace and reason.